EN, RU log written in Korean

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
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Oscard587
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Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
Languages: Korean (Native)
English (A2)
Russian (Beginner)

-Turkish, Polish, French
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: Live Forever - Rachmaninoff, Debussy and Chopin

Postby Oscard587 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:28 am

Sc27 wrote:
프랑스어
1. 손도 안대고 있다. 다만 도움받기 제일 쉬운 언어라는 점은 장점이다. (영어보다도 쉽다, 어떻게 된건지..)


왜 그러신가요? 남들의 프랑스어로 얘기할 때 발음을 들어서 영어보다 더 쉽다고 생각하세요? 아니면 영어보다 문법과 발음 규직이 들 있어서 이러세요?

성공했었으면 좋겠습니다. 화이팅!


어... 제가 쉽다고 한 것은 '도움 받는 것'이 쉽다는 뜻이고, 앞서 말씀하신 난이도 자체는 역시 프랑스어가 조금 더 어렵다고 생각합니다 (저에게는). 감사합니다.

Explanation : I omitted which thing is easy for me in that sentence(written in Korean), cause it's natural for us. We heavily rely on context so it makes Korean ambiguous. I wrote about 'get help' first, so I didn't write it in next sentence. Common Korean logic :roll:
0 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

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Oscard587
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Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
Languages: Korean (Native)
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: Live Forever - Rachmaninoff, Debussy and Chopin

Postby Oscard587 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:36 am

solocricket wrote:Good luck with Polish! I'm having a good time with it thus far. I've had an interest in Russian, but I'm afraid I would mix them up too much. Have you listened to Chopin's Ballad in Gm? That one might be my favorite :D


Oh, I've been read your log :D since there are not many Polish learners.. ahaha yes, your concern is right. I think if someone wanna study both together, then he or she should reach intermediate level for one language first. Just my Russian seems not good as much as I thought and it makes me confused a bit (not much)

I started my journey from Soviet Pianists, and they played Chopin less than others. So I don't know much about Chopin, listen mostly his Etude works until now. Thanks for recommendation, I found these classical works helpful for keep going :D
1 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

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Oscard587
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Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
Languages: Korean (Native)
English (A2)
Russian (Beginner)

-Turkish, Polish, French
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: Live Forever - Rachmaninoff, Debussy and Chopin

Postby Oscard587 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:35 am

so it's been a long time since I wrote this.... well it means, my semester has been finished!
I wanna rest from studying, however, it will be started soon again as I wrote on here, after next Monday :D

화두 - 시간 배분

화요일, 목요일은 전일 투자 어려움
외국어 공부시간을 줄이고 독서 시간을 늘릴 예정
예상 목표치 미달
집중력의 문제
0 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

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Oscard587
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Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
Languages: Korean (Native)
English (A2)
Russian (Beginner)

-Turkish, Polish, French
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: following the light of the sun (2018)

Postby Oscard587 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:50 pm

Okay, I'm back!
It's 01.00 right now but I need to keep this anyway, somehow, before it's too late.

After I started to use Trello, which is I didn't mentioned on this log, keep several logs becomes burdensome work.
I thought it might be better if I could focus to keep only one than writing both.
(Well, I'll be honest, frankly, writing in English is somewhat difficult work to do for me)
I could use Trello with my native language (although it doesn't support Korean) But what I should say about what I felt.. I'd like to call this as getting out of plateau or whatever something similar to that. I kept using what called as language exchange app or services, whatever.

However, few days ago, unknown person corrected my English on there. I used a term 'Listening comprehension' in my writing and She puts an 'and' between 'Listening' and 'Comprehension'. that makes me doubt about myself and my English. Eventually that leads me to here once again. Yes, on there, there is more chance that like 'Wow, you are good at English'. but I know I'm not, sadly. I learned English from playing computer games so it contains a lot of grammatical errors! If I got a correction then there will be always red rain on my sentences but as I wrote, get a correction like 'Listening and Comprehension' is totally out of point. so the pressure of English was the best on here unlike other websites. I felt like that I need to be active, using active skills but when I'm on the other websites, I just sit back and enjoy. I've been lived like that for a long time. I need to break it once more to be develop myself.

Still, I mostly check here after finishing my day or studying or whatever it is... my brain become puzzled, especially with English.
Perhaps that's because I usually face more English materials, articles..well some stuff like that.. than my native one, Korean.
maybe if English is the only one language I'd care about then it would be just fine.. however, my main TL is Russian for now. So the rest of time goes to Russian, not Korean. uhh, headaches (Maybe Turkish will follow soon, situation has been changed a bit after I disappeared on here)

Anyway I might feel more comfortable If I use more my native language, Korean on here.
I can feel myself that my Korean has become worst than ever so who knows, maybe I need to add Korean as my learning language on here in future. meh.
2 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

qeadz
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Re: following the light of the sun (2018)

Postby qeadz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:18 pm

Oscard587 wrote:However, few days ago, unknown person corrected my English on there. I used a term 'Listening comprehension' in my writing and She puts an 'and' between 'Listening' and 'Comprehension'. that makes me doubt about myself and my English.


I dont know the full sentence to give it context, but I (as a native English speaker) would certainly say "listening comprehension" to mean my ability to comprehend the spoken language.

Your communication in English is great - I understand the message you want to communicate easily. You do make mistakes but they don't tend to get in the way of your ability to communicate. However the type of mistakes you make do separate you from sounding native-like.

Were I to rewrite the bit from your post which I quoted, I'd probably write it like this:

However, a few days ago, an unknown person corrected my English on there. I used a term 'Listening comprehension' in my writing and she put an 'and' between 'Listening' and 'Comprehension'. That makes me doubt about myself and my English ability. (alternately: That makes me have doubts about my English ability and doubt myself.)

Now I don't know whether the above is grammatically correct or not. But to me the revised version sounds natural.

I know you're focusing on other languages right now, but the question will end up being the same for them too. When someone has consumed a lot of material in a target language and is much more comfortable using that language, what can a person do to correct mistakes?
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Oscard587
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Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
Languages: Korean (Native)
English (A2)
Russian (Beginner)

-Turkish, Polish, French
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: following the light of the sun (2018)

Postby Oscard587 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:01 am

qeadz wrote:
Oscard587 wrote:However, few days ago, unknown person corrected my English on there. I used a term 'Listening comprehension' in my writing and She puts an 'and' between 'Listening' and 'Comprehension'. that makes me doubt about myself and my English.


I dont know the full sentence to give it context, but I (as a native English speaker) would certainly say "listening comprehension" to mean my ability to comprehend the spoken language.

Your communication in English is great - I understand the message you want to communicate easily. You do make mistakes but they don't tend to get in the way of your ability to communicate. However the type of mistakes you make do separate you from sounding native-like.

Were I to rewrite the bit from your post which I quoted, I'd probably write it like this:

However, a few days ago, an unknown person corrected my English on there. I used a term 'Listening comprehension' in my writing and she put an 'and' between 'Listening' and 'Comprehension'. That makes me doubt about myself and my English ability. (alternately: That makes me have doubts about my English ability and doubt myself.)

Now I don't know whether the above is grammatically correct or not. But to me the revised version sounds natural.


Oh, thanks for these corrections! It's right that my English was never better than "just for communication" level. Basically, I learned it by playing games in English and that was just enough for me. My English level has been same from freshman days, at least I think so. But now it's finally time to break down the wall that prevents me from improving my English. I tend to avoid English materials which what I couldn't understand. Now I think, I should've tackled it more and more. There are still many things to be fixed - I just wish that if I study English grammar book with practice helps me to make fewer errors. The whole situation is different from before - unlike my days in the past that I used to bomb myself with English while having fun, now I must do.. well.. "search and destroy" seems correct expression to this. For my TL, I could do some grammar practice while learning. In case of English, I didn't do that so it just makes me difficult to notice what's wrong or not.

and indefinite articles such as a and the, I gave it up :D Koreans always struggle with them, difficult to get the concept and usage of them.

I know you're focusing on other languages right now, but the question will end up being the same for them too. When someone has consumed a lot of material in a target language and is much more comfortable using that language, what can a person do to correct mistakes?


Getting corrections from native speakers seems best way for me. but I'd like to get corrections with proper reason. now I found why I got such correction was... Well, in language exchange apps, many people who aren't native English speakers (I mean, poor or even can't speak) change their native language as English just for talk with Koreans (Koreans are not interested to learn other languages except what we call 'major' in here, in general) Anyway, I shouldn't mind such corrections from them after all.
2 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

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Oscard587
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: following the light of the sun (with written Korean log)

Postby Oscard587 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:11 am

Suddenly, studying Turkish is on the way.
It's inspired by Xmmm's Turkish log and my new language partners that recently added me in some apps.
I adopted his way a bit for my study just because I'm in similar situation with him. I don't have much time for Turkish, I should make my Russian more fluently and comfortably first. I realized that when I talked with my new partners in Turkish. I tried a bit but suddenly Russian words and expressions started to mix with Turkish in my head. so I had to stop the conversation. It cannot go far anyway since my Turkish is really limited. However, One is a Turkish-only speaker and she will force me to speak Turkish every time.
When I think of my Turkish, originally it's the language that has to take my first priority. It is my major, although nobody remembers that around me :lol:

I wrote before in my log or wherever in this forum that my English is not good enough. It's really difficult to tell my English level has reached comfortable intermediate level. But still, Books for learning foreign languages in Korean are not that useful. Book publishers tend to make them looks pretty with many colors... like bling-bling Korean groups? :lol: so I had to rely on books written in English or my TL in general. However new Turkish book published in Korea and it's about sentences patterns of Turkish for practical usage. I should try this book. I didn't saw anything like this book in English resources for Turkish language. Sadly, the audio files for this book are somewhat Amateurish, also It's not common audio files. It's more like audio courses. the author explains Turkish sentence patterns and grammars in Korean and then.. are there any native speakers? I can't remember.. I mentioned my new partners just for this :lol: I'll ask them to read those sentences for me,
maybe I could do the same thing for them in return. I can provide them Korean commoner voice for whatever they ask to me.
However, to be honest, still, I'm not certain Korean learners are really interested to learn Korean in these apps!

Finally, Here is my progress for Turkish today

TurkishClass101 - Listening without reading, Dialog only, Absolute Beginner level (25 lessons)
Turkce Okuyorum 1 - Listening without reading, a whole book. (01-26)

-------edited to write more observation about myself

As expected, my Turkish listening skill cannot be matched with my Turkish reading skill. I could recall the meaning when I was reading Turkce Okuyorum 1 textbook, but in Listening, I got butchered after few lessons from the start. I'm glad that I didn't forget Turkish at all. at the same time, It looks like Reading is the only one skill I developed when I was young in my university classes. Hmph. I could find a similar tendency in English either. Reading is always the best one, but the gap is too huge with other skills. I tested myself about writing somewhere on the internet. (maybe in dialang) and the result says that my writing skill level is B1 but closer to A2. Tip never forgets to mention that "don't be overconfident about your writing skill." too. Hmph. I know it well. Overconfidence is slow and insidious killer.
Russian is also don't need to mention. only Polish language is the one that I have an equal level of skills. Interesting thing is, that all of the languages that I have a huge gap among skills... I had been in a classroom environment in the past and had many classes, but never developed or studied by myself. but Polish is the only language I tried with a new approach after found here. I spend my time usually on listening for that. Just the thing is I'm still a beginner in Polish so it can't be a good example for me.

Below is the resource list that I'm considering now for my weakness
English :
문법 및 작문 - English Grammar in Use. Practical Usage of English by Swan.
표현 - Phrasal verbs, gather expressions used by native speakers.
듣기 - something for intensive listening. Unexplained (Podcast) http://www.unexplainedpodcast.com/ , ESLPOD, BBC

Russian : something for conjugation practice in every aspect, intermediate listening materials.
Turkish : 126패턴, more vocabulary, verbs for practice expressions.
Polish : Po polsku po Polsce A1 http://www.popolskupopolsce.edu.pl/
1 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

User avatar
Oscard587
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Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
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Russian (Beginner)

-Turkish, Polish, French
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: following the light of the sun (EN, RU, TR,PL with written Korean log)

Postby Oscard587 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:04 pm

로그 제목에 버젓이 한국어로도 쓰겠다고 써놓고는 제대로 쓴게 없네요. 무려 18년 들어서 바꾼 제목인데 :lol: :D 이전에는 한국어로 쓰고, 뒤에 영어를 붙이거나 하는 방식으로 써볼까 했는데, 그럴때마다 영어로만 쓰고 말았습니다. 안 그래도 쓰기 힘든데, 이 말 저 말 쓰다보면 덧붙이고 싶어지고 해서 이번에는 그냥 한국어로만 써보겠습니다. 양해 부탁드립니다. 음, 그런데 일반적인 한국어 화자의 자연스런 글쓰기를 접하기가 쉬운가요? 아무래도 외국어를 공부하다 보면 교재나 팟캐스트, 뉴스 등, 심지어는 실생활 회화라든지.. 뭐 여러 가지가 있겠지만, 외국인 화자를 염두하지 않고 쓴 자연스러운 글을 한국어를 공부하는 사람들이 접할 일이 있을까요? 저부터도 그렇습니다만 (제가 평범한 모국어 영어 화자가 쭉 써내려간 글을 접할 일은 별로 없습니다.) 어, 아무래도 그럴것 같진 않은데, 언제 어플이나 한번 소개해보도록 하겠습니다. :D 다만 고급 한국어 학습자가 없는 것 같아 보여서 효용성이 있을지는 잘 모르겠습니다.

저는 사실 지금 좀 특수한 상황에 있는게 아닌가 싶네요. 한국에 살고 있음에도 보고 듣는 한국어보다 영어의 양이 더 많은 것 같습니다. 한국어로 뭔가 쓸 일은 (아직은) 당연히 없고요. 그래도 한국어로 쓰니 이전 로그들 쓸때와 비교해보면 굉장히 빠르게 써지긴 하네요. 이것도 이것 나름대로 편하네 :lol: 학기가 다시 시작되면 한국어 실력이 100% 발휘되어야 하겠지만 (어쩌면 그 이상) 글이란 걸 제대로 써본 적이 없어서, 걱정이 되기도 합니다. 제 나이를 생각하면 더욱 그렇죠. 언어 관련 전공이면 더더욱 그렇고요. 어떻게 보면 글을 꾸준히 쓰지 못하고 (안하고!) 그렇다고 글쓰기 실력에 관심을 두지도 않았던, 상당히 부끄러운 일입니다. 서서히 나이만 계속 먹어가네요.

역시 이번에도 쓸데없는 신변잡기로만 두 문단을 썼네요. 각설하고 바로 본론으로 들어가겠습니다.

요즘 영어 공부에 재미를 새롭게 더 해줄만한 것들을 좀 찾았습니다. Oxford Bookworm 시리즈인데요. 레벨이 스타터(Starter)에서 6까지 나누어져 있습니다. 제 영어 실력을 여기서 다시 제대로 느끼고 있는데요. 로그 하나 쓸때마다 머리가 아프고 여러 내용을 담지를 못하는데, 여러 모로 제 실력이 부족하다고 느끼는 요즘입니다. 그래서인지 이 시리즈가 더 흥미롭습니다. 오디오북(Audiobook)의 읽는 속도도 느리고, 그다지 어렵게 느껴지진 않았습니다. (레벨 6을 들어봤습니다.) 이 시리즈를 쉐도잉(Shadowing) 용도로 써보는 것도 괜찮을 것 같네요.
A diary of Wimpy Kid도 있습니다만, 이 책도 상당히 끌리는 책인지라 고민이 됩니다. 구동사 (Phrasal verb)를 따로 공부할 생각인데, 그때 같이 하면 좋을 것 같기도 하고요.

비록 전부는 아니지만, 앞으로 제 영어 공부에서의 주요 포인트로 떠오르는 것은
- 문법 : 부족한 부분 (자주 틀리는 부분) , 몰라서 사용하지 못하는 표현 추가
- 듣기 : Intensive listening activities
- 말하기 : 기본적인 알파벳 발음법부터 억양, 쉐도잉 혹은 따라 말하기(Shadowing)
- 쓰기 : 기본 구조 익히기 및 표현법 -> 단어 공부

오늘 생각해 본 것은 이정도입니다. 영어에 관해서만!
러시아어나 터키어도 조금 건드리긴 했는데, 너무 길어졌네요. 한국어로만 글이 너무 길어지는 것도 보기 좋지 않을뿐더러 밤도 늦었으니, 한국어 로그는 이정도에서 마치도록 하겠습니다.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I wrote some piece of log in Korean, as I wrote in the title of my log. :(
When I wrote this, I didn't care about target readers at all. So this is some kind of natural writing without thinking much in Korean, done by late 20s. well, I found that when I do some kind of language learning, I usually do something made for learners. that was the motive of this writing, only for today :D (but, it's certain that this is not the article that targets Korean readers. Moreover, I added some English words later :roll: )
Basically, I wanted to write this log with Korean and English both, I found it hard and really engaging than expected. Because of my English vocabulary and expressions quite limited. If I wrote first in Korean then I need to struggle again to find equivalents in English, not come out from my head. However, that seems like really good practice for later, I'll try if I have enough time to do it. Not sure for now. :roll:

I couldn't write about my Russian and Turkish progress! It's too late in here, but I didn't do much so there will be no problem!
1 x
Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

User avatar
Oscard587
Yellow Belt
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm
Location: Seoul
Languages: Korean (Native)
English (A2)
Russian (Beginner)

-Turkish, Polish, French
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5866
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Re: following the light of the sun (EN, RU, TR,PL with written Korean log)

Postby Oscard587 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:22 am

Russian :
*New goal - reach B1 before September, this year
*How to test - language learning in here usually focused on how to get a certificate and everybody only studying for it.
So it's not that difficult to get self-test material for the certificate, rather than materials for learning language itself.

I might set my goal bigger than this, like reach B2 with an extended time limit. However, just wanna see the result before drawing too much. I'd like to set mini goals, too. No, it's necessary...

*What I did - I spent most of my time on listening, especially audio files from my beginner courses. A few hours only listening without looking text. that's what I've done recently. Surprisingly I found myself that I understand much than expected, even audio files from other beginner coursebooks I haven't studied before. But was it connected to speaking, output? No, it wasn't.

I have too many beginner courses and still haven't mastered beginner level. sometimes it's bothering to see my lack of basics catch me up from going further comfortably.

My problems are...
1) lack of output skill, writing and speaking for both.
2) Some weak points taught at the basic level, mostly in verb conjugation. some case declension.
3) got difficulties with complex, compound sentences. with conjunctions. perhaps I should learn it separately.

for specific method or mini goals - I'm working on it.

Turkish :
*New goal - It's difficult to set my new goal for this language. I shouldn't set my goal like I did for learning Russian.
So, just finish some beginner courses and reviewing my old books I used in the class would be fit for me.

My language partners didn't help me. All of them refused to do. It seems they wanted only just chat with Koreans.
My skill has been improved for only one specific matter in this week - refuse their conversion request to their religion. Hmph

*What I did - Listened some Turkishclass101 podcast. is it worth or would it be considered as studying? I doubt...
When I listened audio from beginner coursebook, I become sleepy, too much. oh don't bring out my classroom habit...

English :
I'm planning to do some intensive activities, especially on listening and grammar.
Writing would be fine - I keep writing English in here! and in this forum, there are some prompts for output. I bookmarked those for later use.

*What I did - ordered books for intensive listening. Check my level by taking online tests found in here while listening some podcast.
Vocabulary also looks weak, too. I got a 960 score for preliminary dialang test but in the result of other tests, my vocabulary looks weak.
Read Diary of a Wimpy kid a bit. It turned out as a quite daunting book for me. Phrasal verbs make me stop, I couldn't read it comfortably with the flow. Listening was also same. Speaker has a smooth voice and accent, but it was more difficult to guess when I encountered phrasal verbs during listening.

But there aren't many I could do for English at this moment. My biggest enemy is the Russian language from now on.

*Common problem of my language learning is my output skills can't be compared with my input skills. Differences are too big.
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Just because I accept the inevitability of my fate, does not mean I am in any hurry to embrace it!

Mais l'important n’est pas la chute, c’est l’atterrissage.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

Christi
Orange Belt
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:56 pm
Languages: Dutch (N), English (C1), German (B1), Korean (high A2-low B1?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=7574
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Re: following the light of the sun (EN, RU, TR,PL with written Korean log)

Postby Christi » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:58 pm

Hi Oscar,

If you are looking for speaking partners maybe you can try the site italki or apps like hellotalk or tandem. This way you can try chatting in your target language. As for setting goals, maybe you can make a list of what grammar rules you want to know or how much new vocabulary you want to learn. And then eventually try to read something online as a goal. Good luck!
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2020 resolution words learned: 472 / 1000
Pages read at end of 2020: 220 / 1500


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