Suzie learns languages...every now and then

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Suzie
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Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:45 am

So...after a long break....this is finally the sequel to my log on HTLAL http://www.how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35864&PN=1&TPN=1. In the past two years, I had to give higher priority to stuff other than language learning, and I am afraid - these priorities haven't changed so far, and probably won't during the next year or two.

And yet, I have been thinking of learning languages a lot lately. Due to the lack of pressure from outside, my French hasn't progressed at all, and I stopped exposing myself to this beautiful language, because I felt my brain could handle only so many things. My job experience in Belgium might be over soon though, and I know I would regret leaving this wonderful country without having used the opportunity of having mastered French.
Also, a friend of mine is going to settle in Sweden permanently, and I would love to embrace that opportunity to finally learn Swedish. But hey? What about Dutch, Japanese and Finnish? Weren't those supposed to come first?
I then digged into this forum, and wow - how I have missed this crazy and commited group of people...the challenges..the resources...I wish I could drop my real life activities and dive back...and just learn.....

So, long talk - I have finally decided to quit my self-imposed blockage from French, and am re-starting...without any pressure or over-commitment (at least that's the goal).

Since I always need some sort of to do list for any of my goals....

1) Reading 100 books in total (including those I have already read - I am considering signing up for the next Super Challenge next year, since I had a lot of fun in 2014/2015.

2) Listening to 675 hrs (40,500 min) of French (counting since last week). The number is less arbitrary than it seems....I have listened to 13,500 min (225 hrs) during the past two Super Challenges, and while my comprehension has definitely improved, I am still lost when being talked to. I feel like I need at least three-fold higher exposure to spoken French than I have already had to reach some sort of comfort level.

3) 20 h Italki lessons, and then finally pushing myself to speak to natives! This has been my biggest hurdle. I am so intimidated and self-conscious when opening my mouth. also, all my colleagues speak English fluently. Therefore, I hardly ever really try to engage in an active conversation in French. Embarrassing, I know :-( I am hoping to get those Italki lessons going this summer to finally get me going.

4) Working through all French learning material I already have at home, and getting and completing the CLE Vocabulaire progressif du français (avancé, perfectionnement) plus the CLE Grammaire progressif du français (intermédiaire, avancé, perfectionnement)..

5) 10'000 Anki cards (talking about over-commitment...) Unfortunately, I lost my complete Anki deck with 6000 reviewed cards during a computer crash and haven't been able to retrieve it. However, Anki has helped me immensely to build up my vocabulary.

6) Writing 10'000 words, and having 50 % of my written output corrected. (See my post of May 11th for details)

No deadline is set - this is going to take a couple of years!

When I have reached a comfort level in French, I'll start considering other languages....But as said, even French shouldn't be my priority right now. So, don't get used to me being here.....This log is mostly meant to record my progress in those tasks mentioned above.

Edit May 1st, 2017: Correcting a calculation mistake... :oops: 1.5 Super Challenges are 150 x 90 min = 13500 min.
Edit May 11th, 2017: Adding the writing goal to my list
Last edited by Suzie on Thu May 11, 2017 9:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
3 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Languages: German (N), English (C-ish), French (B-ish), Dutch (B1)
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:02 am

Books read in French (1990-April 2022)
27 books, 7614 pages in total

Le petit prince (Saint-Exupéry) (113 p.)
Le petit Nicolas (Sempé-Goscinny) (156 p.)
Le petit Nicolas et les copains (Sempé-Goscinny) (122 p.)
Les Vacances du petit Nicolas (Sempé-Goscinny) (160 p.)
Star Trek - La nouvelle génération. Starfleet Académie: Misson de survie (P. David) (141 p.)
Le Club des Cinq en péril (E. Blyton) (186 p.)
Rendez-vous mortel (graded reader A2) (Arnauld de Lions/Lutsch) (160 p.)
Inferno (D. Brown) (608 p.)
Harry Potter à l'école des sorciers (J. K. Rowling) (298 p.)
Doctor Who: Apollo 23 (J. Richards) (277 p.)
Ronya, fille de brigand (A. Lindgren) (280 p.)
Poirot joue le jeu (A. Christie) (232 p.)
Charmed: Le secret des druides (Eloise Flood) (151 p.)
L'Indice de la peur (R. Harris) (368 pages)
Flubber (C.E. Dubowski) (121 pages)
Meurtre au champagne (A. Christie) (307 p.)
Mephisto Club (T. Gerritsen) (480 p.)
Charmed: la statuette maléfique (D.G. Gallagher) (150 p.)
Cauchemar génétique (Preston & Child) (660 p.)
La première colonie (G. Dupuis) (17 p.)
Histoire d'Alice qui ne pensait jamais à rien (et de tous ses maris, plus un) (F. Dannemark) (112 p.)
Charlie et la Chocolaterie (R. Dahl) (203 p.)
Harry Potter et la chambre des secrets (J.K. Rowling) (358 p.)
-----------------------------------
Harry Potter et le prisonnier d'Azkaban (J.K. Rowling) (455 p.)
Harry Potter et la coupe de feu (J.K. Rowling) (758 p.)
Harry Potter et l'ordre de phénix (J.K. Rowling) (1031 p.)
Harry Potter et le Prince de sang-mêlé (J.K. Rowling) (741 p.)
Harry Potter et les reliques de la mort (J.K. Rowling) (until p. 432)

Super Challenge 2022/2023 see here
Last edited by Suzie on Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:14 pm, edited 13 times in total.
4 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:53 am
Languages: German (N), English (C-ish), French (B-ish), Dutch (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 040#p70040
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:08 am

Suzie's Listening (2013-today - French)

Videos watched in French
Bones, Saison 2, épisodes 5-21, saisons 3 et 4
Eureka, saisons 4 et 5
Glee, Saisons 1 et 5
Gilmore Girls, quelques épisodes
Monk, quelques épisodes
Grey's Anatomy, saisons 3 et 6
Doctor Who, saison 8
How I met your mother, quelques épisodes
Friends, quelques épisodes
NCIS, quelques épisodes
Supernatural, saison 1 + saison 2, épisodes 1-8
Die Hard V: Belle journée pour mourir
Le seigneur des anneaux: La trilogie
Evolution
Sabrina
Indiana Jones et le temple maudit
Bienvenue chez les Sch'tis
New Girl, quelques épisodes
Elementary, épisode 1
-------------------------------
Shrek 1 - 4
Le Hobbit: La trilogie
Doctor Who, saison 9
The Good Wife, saison 1, épisodes 1-4
Into the night, saison 1
Stargate Atlantis, saison 1 (2x), saisons 2-5 (1x)
Star Trek La Nouvelle Génération, saison 1, épisodes 1-12
Harry Potter et l'ordre de phénix
Retour vers le futur I-III
The Big Bang Theory, saisons 1-4, 12 (épisodes 1-19)

Audiobooks in French
Le petit Nicolas (R. Goscinny)
Le Da Vinci Code (D. Brown)

Super Challenge 2022/2023 see here
Last edited by Suzie on Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:52 pm, edited 23 times in total.
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Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

DaveBee
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby DaveBee » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:05 am

Suzie wrote:4) Working through all French learning material I already have at home, and getting and completing the CLE Vocabulaire progressif du français (avancé, perfectionnement) plus the CLE Grammaire progressif du français (intermédiaire, avancé, perfectionnement)..
I'm currently working through Duolingo, afterwards I'm planning on trying a Bescherelle. Their École book is intended for primary school age french children, so I assume that whatever teaches french to the french must be OK for me. :-)
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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:47 am

Hi DaveBee,

It is indeed a special approach to use L2 course materials for grammar studies. So far, I have always sought to use grammar books designed for my native language (so in my case: French Grammar for German native speakers). I see an advantage in getting a better explanation of L2 specialties compared to the language I already master. So, I have always feared that a French grammar text book for French students would fail to explain what seems obvious to French students already. My reason for including the CLE textbooks really is to train known grammar rules by doing all those exercises, not to learn the grammar from scratch with these books.

I am probably too cautious here ;) And I am definitely not writing this to discourage you, but wish you a lot of fun and success with Bescherelle!
2 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Thu May 11, 2017 9:35 am

Suzie wrote: You won't find any writing task on this list - as long as the grammar and vocabulary is set, writing has never been an issue for me. Also, the ultimate goal is speaking - to be able to engage myself in a conversation with ease. I tried to use writing as a training to wire my brain for output, but it felt unnecessary that time.


This is what I wrote in my first post, when defining my goals. I have given this some thought and have now changed my opinion on this. Right now, it feels more efficient to train my output (both with regard to grammar and vocabulary) in written form, to complement my current textbook studies. I'll start with 100 x 100 word texts, intending to have 50 % of those texts corrected within Lang-8, by francophone friends or a future tandem partner or tutor. I have just started one first text and am thrilled how much I learn from this exercise - I am looking up vocabulary constantly, checking my grammar and feed Anki with everything afterwards.

I still believe speaking will be more important for me than writing, but I have come to believe that written output might impact the quality of my oral output in the long run. Especially now that I have very few exposure to French and little pressure to use it.
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Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Sun May 28, 2017 1:32 pm

More than six weeks have passed since my first entry, and it's time for me to celebrate a little milestone:

When I stopped my learning activities in French two years ago, my listening comprehension was around 95 % in dubbed, very familiar TV series (i.e. after watching two seasons with subtitles). Now, after the two-year break, and after restarting to work on my listening comprehension with a few movies, I have just started to watch "Star Trek, la nouvelle génération", and after having subtitles accompanying the pilot episode, I don't feel the need for subtitles anymore! I can easily understand 90 % of what is said, except for those instances when Data starts to provide wrap-ups on specific topics (which he does quite quickly). Although it feels a bit strange that of all people it is the android that I don't understand, this seems to be a very easy show to watch and work on your listening comprehension. This motivates me to get going, since I have the complete box set of 'La nouvelle génération', 'Deep Space Nine' and 'Voyager' in French. I admit that the first episodes are a bit boring, though, and I realize the show may have lost some of its magic since I first watched it. Well, TV culture has moved on since the late 80s, and I guess I have developed as well somewhat since I was a teenager....

Other than that, I have read 500 pages in the past six weeks (Harry Potter 3 & 4) and started to re-activate my grammar, starting with conjugation drills. After making my way through an old course book from the 90s, with awkward texts where everything was still paid in Francs, mention was made of telephone books (do those still exist???) and with pictures of people and rooms looking as if you have stepped into a time machine, I took the brave decision to get rid of it, and to replace it with a book focussing on grammar exercises only. This is what I need - nothing more. I was glad to find numerous similar exercise books like that.

I had two conversations in French, which I would self-assess as solid B1 - I even felt confident enough to add a little joke during a conversation at the post office (but then didn't understand the response..blimey... :( )

I understand my reading skills and grammar knowledge really need to progress to C1 levels first before I can move both listening comprehension and speaking to a confident B2 level. And I am not there yet. Two years ago, I started one of the more recent Ken Follet novels (La Chute des géants), and - heavens - this was really difficult to read. I plan to stick to more familiar grounds for now (Harry Potter and Rizzoli & Isles series - still sufficient unknown words to mine there) before re-attacking Ken Follet.
2 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:53 am
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:57 am

After four years of break (yet again), I am finally returning to my log. I haven't made much any progress in French, prioritizing other aspects in my life. However, I realized some weeks ago that I have somehow managed to cross off nearly all of my major life goals from my bucket list - except for mastering French. At this point, I am pretty much where I want to be in my private and professional life, with some spare time for leisure....So...time to tackle this last* big project that I haven't been able to complete since decades. It's a bit ironic that I make this a priority now, having returned from a five-year stay in Belgium...but well... :roll: I still live near the Belgium border and have friends in the country, so I will still have opportunities to practice.

I have been dabbling with the language since two weeks and intend to make this a routine, without too much pressure. Tracking my activities and progress helps to remain motivated, so here I am again. I intend to post on a monthly basis to document what I have been doing.

Summary July:
1) Anki: 147 "mature" cards and 284 cards "Young and Learn"
2) Reading: 276 book pages, plus various articles on rtbf.be, lemonde.fr, sciencesetavenir.fr
3) Grammar and structured learning: ca. 70 pages of official learning material (mostly an old A2 level graded reader, plus some pages of grammar books), 10 Kwiziq tests (A0-B2)
4) Listening: 7 minutes of listening (Belgian news)

My recent learning experience has been anything but structured or goal oriented; I just enjoyed diving into the language again. Apart from the daily Anki revisions (including 20 new Anki cards per day - a mix of new words, expressions, whole sentences and conjugations drills, all mostly sourced from the material listed above), I just did what felt ok at that moment. There has been a natural evolution from intensive to extensive reading, which I welcome - during the Super Challenge a few years ago, reading became leisure time; this is how I want my French experience to become in the end.

I am planning a day trip to Liège in August, intending to get DVD box sets of Stargate and Stargate Atlantis at the local Fnac. I am so excited! Let's hope the virus will not hamper my plans... I am also considering signing up for an online conversation course for B1 students this autumn. This feels like a nice solution to tackle my biggest weakness: Conversing with native speakers has always posed a huge challenge that I could not overcome. The experience was usually overwhelming and brain draining, and in the end I just gave up and avoided to fight this battle whenever I could. At this point, I lack both practice and confidence, and a graded conversation course that is not too challenging might be a solution for me to "overwrite" the negative feelings around the whole speaking part.

Other than that, I have no distinct plans for August other than spending more time with French, vaguely thinking of one hour exposure per day.

*Disclaimer: I intend to live some more decades and expect to re-fill my bucket list with other exciting goals in future. But right now, French is indeed the only major one left.
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Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Languages: German (N), English (C-ish), French (B-ish), Dutch (B1)
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:21 am

Summary August - French:
1) Anki: 561 "mature" cards and 774 cards "Young and Learn" (=904 new cards in August); approximately 50 % sentences and 50 % words
2) Reading: ca. 300 pages; fiction, rtbf.be, lemonde.fr, sciencesetavenir.fr
3) Grammar and structured learning: added more than 1000 cards with grammar rules and example sentences from exercises or selected phrases from reading materials to Anki. Focus on review of A2 grammar.
4) Listening: ca. 16 hours of Star Trek (La nouvelle génération) and Stargate Atlantis
5) Speaking: short interactions during my shopping trip at Liège

This month has been full of revelations of my weaknesses, strategy developments and (continuing) strategy revisions.

Initially, I had intended to attend a B1 conversation class, but the dates did not fit, so I had the choice between A2 and B2. A2 conversation classes sound too boring to me but a self-test quickly confirmed that I am definitely not B2 yet. It also revealed two major weaknesses that prevent me from successful oral interactions in French: Grammar and Listening.

Therefore, I focused on intense grammar practice this month, starting with the review of A2 materials. As a school kid, I had been friends with grammar, but afterwards, I rather focused on extension of my vocabulary, reading and listening, while grammar got horribly neglected. Especially during my stay in Belgium, I was too tired in the evenings; reading and listening practice was so much easier. However, being the person that I am, I need the confidence that I have mastered the grammatical aspects of the language before gaining confidence to talk. So I started to add cards with grammar rules and example sentences to Anki and memorize them actively. I targeted new five sentences per day and ended up doing about 12 per day. I suspected that this may not be sustainable in the long run, and, having reached the end of this first month, I am already burning out. While I feel the intensity of this tedious exercise really boosts my language skills, I will not reach B1 grammar drills by 2022, and will not end this before 2023, even with the ambitious planning described above. It is hard and frustrating to accept that, but I will need to, if I do not wish to swap the benefits of this intensity for more "nominal" progress.

Listening: Engaging in conversations with native speakers during my shopping trip to Liège was a brain melting experience, and I completely failed an A2 listening self-test. While my focus was on grammar this month, I restarted watching TV shows. I am still very much struggling with the fast speech at Stargate Atlantis, so I watch every episode twice in the moment, playing with decreased speed (0.9) and making heavy use of French subs to maximize the comprehension. My listening skills developed very late in English, too, so I will need lots and lots of practice, possibly much more than most. I also acknowledge that overall my French skills need to improve to help with my listening abilities, so I will need to continue to work on reading as well as vocabulary and grammar training.

So my plan for September is a temporary shift to extensive activities, a consolidation step:
a) Focus on extensive reading and extensive listening,
b) Review of my Anki desk, trying to add as few new cards as possible,
c) Accept that I will not reach B2 during the next two years, despite daily practice.

Also on language learning: I spoke Dutch! I went to a short trip to the Dutch coast, discovering to my surprise that we picked a spot where Dutch was the only language spoken. During the past 20+ years, I had finally concluded that learning Dutch was - while enjoyable - the most useless hobby I had ever pursued, as any Dutch or Flemish person I had encountered happily insisted on speaking flawless English or native-like German with me. So finally meeting people struggling with German and readily conversing in Dutch with me was an unexpected delight. I am still pondering whether this was a local experience or is a sign of a more general development in the Netherlands. For very selfish reasons, I would welcome the latter.
5 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:53 am
Languages: German (N), English (C-ish), French (B-ish), Dutch (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 040#p70040
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:57 am

A small update to my plans for September - they felt too vague:

First, I will read 200 pages and watch two more episodes of Stargate Atlantis. Afterwards, I may shift 10 new cards to my Anki learning deck. When this is done, I will learn 10 new cards each time when I managed to read 100 pages or watch two episodes.

I hope this encourages me to take the consolidation phase serious, and motivates me to extensive reading.
5 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete


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