Suzie learns languages...every now and then

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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Mon May 09, 2022 6:21 pm

LanguageLearner0007 wrote:A bit of life happened between May 2017 and July 2021 :D

Impressed with the continuity, just wanted to say there are people on the same journey.

In adult life, so many things happen and sometimes the life is too hectic to dedicate yourself properly to learning a language.


Thank you! I really appreciate your words. Indeed in comparison with all the committed and admirable language learners in this forum, I sometimes feel like the queen of inconsistency. :lol: I enjoy the current streak as long as it prevails, and when it ends (they all do), it will certainly do so for a good reason.
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100 films: 100 / 100 complete

LanguageLearner0007
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby LanguageLearner0007 » Mon May 09, 2022 9:37 pm

I believe strongly in going with the flow. Sometimes you have an inner tendency to do something and it's important to catch that wave and do it. Other times, you don't and then it may be best to leave it alone. My learning tends to be somewhat sporadic but I don't see it as a bad thing. After all, there are things that are much more important in life than learning a new language. 8-)
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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then [FR]

Postby Suzie » Mon May 23, 2022 9:23 pm

Impasse

Time for another update on my French learning progress. I am struggling a bit in the moment.

I have grown a bit tired of Anki lately, and stopped adding new words to my active deck for a while in order to reduce the amount of daily reviews from about 200 to less than 100. This feels much more sustainable. I have been wondering why my tolerance level for Anki is so terribly low, and have identified two reasons:

1) Quite obvious: This is intense studying, not leasure. I have become less and less tolerant to stress in the past decade, and Anki turns language learning into work. I have been spending parts of my weekends with groundwork for a research project (and hopefully a future publication), which is fun and enjoyable, but also energy-draining. Anki on top of this is quite the challenge.

2) Every single review is a tiny exam situation, and I just hate exams. Have always hated them. It may sound stupid, but there is a tiny piece in me that feels completely stressed out when I do not know a card, and which screams "FAILURE" when I have to click on the button on the left.

This is all unfortunate, because I love the efficiency of SRS, and I believe it is a key contributor to successful learning. Especially the intense grammar drilling since last summer has done wonders to my French.

Furthermore, the inability to speed up with Anki has now started to affect my reading, too: I finished Harry Potter VII and started with excitement the book I had been longing for in the past weeks: "Ce qui ne me tue pas" (D. Lagercrantz) - Part 4 of the Millenium saga. Unfortunately, there were annoyingly many unknown words on the first page already. I hate not being able to add cards to Anki that I find worth learning, but then I do not want to build an endless queue either. So I searched for easier stuff. "Doctor Who: L'horloge nucléaire" promised just the leasure reading I was looking for. Boy, was I mistaken :shock: With up to 2% of unknown words, the second half has meanwhile become n+x>>1 for me, which is quite annoying. (Part of me is just wondering, however, whether this is just my low tolerance level right now). So with the queue now still growing, I need to stop reading soon - or change strategies.

Thoughts on exit strategies

I do not want to give up on Anki, but I have to dial down the stress caused by SRS. Obviously, the reviews need to become easier (and less). I am currently pondering about two strategies:

a) Change in the decision process if vocabulary is worth SRSing. I have been thinking about this anyway, read a lot in old threads here and at HTLAL, and realized that the selection logic becomes highly personal in the upper intermediate level. What do I want to do with the language when I am feel "operational"? If I am content with solid non-academic B2 level of speaking and writing, should I maybe stop learning L1->L2 and switch to the much easier L2->L1? For some of the cards maybe if not all?

b) Create a new "Look and click" deck. Do what it says. No exam, no pass or fail, just pure exposure. When I am ready (= when the reviews of the learning deck are down to a bearable level), I can "forget" some cards and move them to my learning deck. At that point in time, the pass rate of the "new" cards in the learning deck is probably much higher.

I am tending towards option b tonight, mostly because it only tweaks the current system but does not disrupt it. Before I decide, I need to think a bit more about the unanswered questions in option a.

(EDIT because of typos)
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jackb
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby jackb » Tue May 24, 2022 2:26 pm

Hi Suzie,
I find SRS most stressful when I use it to learn material as opposed to not forget material. To avoid the stress, I try to make SRS is the last stop not the first. I generally write a word down with it's definition after looking it up. Later, I read the word definition pairs a couple of times a day to learn them. Once I've learned a word to my satisfaction, I add it to SRS. This makes going through decks easier because I already know the words and I'm only making sure I don't forget them. It has the added benefit of allowing me to make simple cards cutting down on the time spent creating cards. I got the idea from smallwhite, I'm nowhere as efficient as they are.

There seems to be a lot of sunk cost type thinking when having doubts about Anki. It's perfectly fine to take a break from it, or stop using it altogether.

Good luck no matter what you decide.
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Tue May 24, 2022 6:50 pm

Hi Jack,

Thank you for your comment and advice! I agree there are other methods just as good as SRS - both for learning as well as for not forgetting the stuff. And less stressful methods, too!

I do learn new words with Anki, but I find the learning experience quite pleasant and not stressful at all. The cards are "new" after all, an exciting expedition into the unkown. Also, I tweaked the algorithm in a way that new cards are shown after 10, 30, and 120 minutes until they are considered "learned", and this is doing the job well. It's the reviews that drive me mental. My retention rate (if I review each day and do not increase the intervals by delays) is about 90 % both for "new" and "mature" cards, which is probably just fine. It's really just my low stress tolerance that causes the discomfort, not the method per se.

jackb wrote: There seems to be a lot of sunk cost type thinking when having doubts about Anki. It's perfectly fine to take a break from it, or stop using it altogether.


I hear you!

Indeed I was wondering whether my desire to stick to Anki was at least partly caused by sunken cost fallacy. While it might contribute to some extent, I don't think it's a key driver: I am a huge fan of spaced repetition, have always been; I used flash card systems already at school; my Dad even built a wooden card index box for me that I would use until today, hadn't I discovered Anki. I find it an extremely efficient way to burn stuff into long-term memory; also, I can be confident that knowledge gaps will reveal themselves while I do not waste too much time on easy stuff. I love to measure stuff - my effort, success, anticipated workload. Love to organize the cards, too. Huge fan of Anki. (Wow, this love letter makes me wanting to do some reviews, I cannot believe it :lol: )

I really want to stick to the system because I believe in it.

jackb wrote:Good luck no matter what you decide.


Thank you! I realize my Anki and reading rant is part of a bigger problem with my workload, life goals and me dealing with stuff in general. Have promised myself a sanity check this or next weekend, and will just do my daily Anki reviews until then, watch French stuff for leasure, and continue with the book only if I am interested in the story. My pillow will not be soaked in tears if I don't.
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100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then [FR]

Postby Suzie » Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 am

Ok, I think I might have fixed my Anki trouble.

My health should be the first and foremost priority in my life. But then, neglecting my health is usually the first indicator that I have failed at stress management. I don't want to give up on any of my projects (including language learning), but I should not pursue my hobbies at the expense of my health goals.

Loyal readers may know that I use intensive language study (read: Anki) as an incentive to get my daily chores done. So far, this allowed for massive progress on some days even if I ignored my health. From now on, intensive studies are only possible if I adhered to my health goals the day before. Also, I set a natural cap, ensuring that it would be extremely hard to add more than 20 new cards on a single day, and more than 5 cards per day on average. I hope this will keep my everlasting lust to overdo stuff somewhat in check.

In the end, I ignored option 2 of my previous post. It would have meant more reviews, not less. Also, I realized that there is nothing wrong with my my retention rate, and I doubted the benefit would have outweighed the additional time spent in Anki. I will, however, play with an additional passive deck (French -> German) for a while. From now on, when adding a new word to Anki, I am going to decide whether I'd like to use it myself some day, or whether I'd just like to remember it next time when I read or hear it.

I haven't given an update on the listening part in my last posts: I have returned to "Star Trek: La nouvelle génération", and after my detour to other TV shows and films, I understand everything with ease, without any subtitles. This is such a huge success for me; what a remarkable progress I made in the past weeks!
I acknowledge this series is very easy in comparison with other TV shows. I will continue with the show (for consolidation of my recent progress) but keep mixing it with other resources to challenge myself a bit from time to time.
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Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Suzie
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then [FR]

Postby Suzie » Tue May 31, 2022 7:43 pm

French - End of May update

Reading: 725 pages
finished Harry Potter VII and completed a Dr Who novel (L'horloge nucléaire). As mentioned earlier, I struggled with the latter, which I found surprising. In hindsight, I believe the confusing storyline was responsible for this - at least in parts. It was about time travel (as usual - it is Dr Who after all), but this time, the story just jumped back and forth during one afternoon. I'd like to think I'd have had trouble with the story even in German or English. I loved how perfectly the 11th Doctor and Rory were captured; I could see their mimics and gestures right in front of me. Just started the next Dr Who novel (La chasse au mirage) and tremendously enjoyed to finally read how the Tardis is "plus grande à l'intérieur".
Really good start with the Super Challenge; 9 pages/day left.

Listening: 46.55 hours
mostly Star Trek (Picard, La nouvelle génération), the Big Bang Theory and the last three Harry Potter movies, also some other films and some episodes of Dr Who that I found on YT (funnily also with the eleventh Doctor, Amy and Rory). Again, a great start. Down to 92 minutes per week.

Intense studies:
Anki: 2759 "mature" cards and 391 "young and learn". 690 new cards added since April 18th. Plus one (!) card in my novel "passive" deck.
Nearly done with the review of B1 grammar; hope to start with B2 by end of the week.

No wonder I have been constantly whining about the workload. In retrospect, this was a crazy month, the most intense since last summer.
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Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:05 pm

French - June update

Reading:
296 pages
Finished another Doctor Who novel (DW: La chasse au mirage) and started the first novel of the Rizzoli & Isles series. As expected, both books are easy to read, and the vocabulary is not too demanding, matching well my B-ish level. The Doctor Who novel left me a bit underwhelmed; it played in series 5 (as the other one), but the relationship between the Doctor and Rory did not reflect well what I remembered from TV; it was unnecessarily tense. The plot involved woollen extraterrestrians... Not a keeper, the book; going to get rid of it during my next meeting with my Belgian friends.

Listening: 14.57 hours
Finished the first season of Star Trek: La nouvelle génération and series 5 of Doctor Who. Started the first season of Stargate SG1.

Intense studies:
Anki: 2933 "mature" cards and 366 "young and learn". 150 new cards added in June. And one (!) more card to my novel "passive" deck. :D
I did again change gears with Anki; a few weeks ago, I set the review limit of my learning deck to 20 cards per day and started a new learning deck. Since a few days I have been struggling to catch up even with those 20 cards; too much is going on these days, but I have stopped caring too much about this.
Started with the B2 grammar review.

Other than that, I visited Belgium twice and had a few short conversations in French in restaurants and shops. No conversation in French with my Wallonian friends. Shame on me. At least I did not purchase any more books and DVDs. Later this month, I am going to Paris for a short trip; so even more opportunities to avoid speaking in my TL!

Not sure I'll keep up with the current pace through July; there is a lot going on right now.
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100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete

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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Cavesa » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:46 pm

Awesome progress! A pleasure to read your log.

And I love your choice of dubbed media :-)

Btw any recommendations on similar tv shows and books with solid quality and enjoyable German dubbings, please?

At least I did not purchase any more books and DVDs.

I understand this soooo much! But in Paris, go to Gibert Jeune. It is one of the best places on earth.
-imagine mephistophelian laughter in the background-

Oh no, apparently it closed last year. I feel like crying.
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Re: Suzie learns languages...every now and then

Postby Suzie » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:21 am

Oh my, again a few months without posting and (nearly) without French. I got a bit tired of Anki, and other aspects of my life took priority (professional goals and health). There was also the planned downtime for exposure to anything French - to purge my system and indulge in Dutch media. Well, I sticked to the planned break from the Super Challenge, but then only watched one single film in Dutch (Shrek). During the Christmas break, I have started to revise my French Anki cards, watched some Netflix stuff and moved my bookmark a few pages further.

Cavesa, I hang down my head in shame - I just saw your post nearly six months late...Thank you so much for your kind words - obviously they are not at all deserved...

Cavesa wrote: Btw any recommendations on similar tv shows and books with solid quality and enjoyable German dubbings, please?

I think German dubbing is quite satisfactory overall. For Stargate SG-1 and Game of Thrones I even prefer the dubbing at times, because I prefer the German pronunciation of "Goa'uld", and the names of the GoT locations sound more fantasy-like to my ears (but that might be the native speaker talking). Regarding SciFi, I don't really have any recommendations for you... The TV shows above all have this tongue-in-cheek element in common, which I guess you like, too. There is Eureka, of course, but you know this already; we discussed this nearly a decade ago over at HTLAL... :lol:
Firefly comes to my mind, but I cannot comment on the German dubbing. I watched some more SciFi recently, but none had this humorous element, and they weren't very good overall. I watched Dark on Netflix recently, which is a German show, but I think we have this dislike for German productions in common ;) and although the series is highly praised, for me it was too dark (pun not intended, but I wish it were) and too complex/confusing for my tired mind that longs for light entertainment. According to The Guardian, Dark could be considered Stranger Things for grown-ups, so I will give Stranger Things a try. Other than SciFi, I have The Mentalist and Castle on my DVD shelf, patiently waiting for a re-watch in French - crime but not too serious.

French update July-December

Intensive studies: still revising Anki cards, no new cards added to the learning deck.

Reading: 50ish pages in the past days after a six-month break, but I am still determined to finish the Super Challenge. 4020 pages to go. Aiming for 12 pages/day in 2023.

Listening/Watching: watched some Netflix series: Lupin, Into the Night and Yakamoz S-245. Lupin was great, the others not so much. I liked the multi-lingual approach of Into the Night. (1899 is similarly fun for polyglots, by the way.) 39 "films" to go for the Super Challenge.
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Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete


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