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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:03 pm
by nooj
A short and simple song today. I would wager that it is known by practically any Basque speaker. Words originally by the poet Gabriel Aresti in 1976, music by the musician Urko. Here is a more recent rockified version:

Euskara putzu sakon
eta ilun bat zen.
Eta zuek denok ur gazi bat
atera zenuten
handik nekez

Basque was a deep and dark well.
Basque was a deep and dark well.
And from there you barely
hauled out salty water.

Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?

We speak Basque, why not you?
We speak Basque, why not you?

Orain zuen birtutez
zuen indarrez.
Euskara itsaso urdin
eta zabal bat izanen da
eta guria da.

Now, thanks to your virtue
And your strength
Basque will become a blue and wide sea
And it is ours.
And it is ours.

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:03 pm
by nooj
OCCASVS wrote:Ti volevo chiedere se hai mai provato ad imparare qualche lingua locale italiana?

(Ho scritto questo messaggio in italiano, perche' mi pare di capire che preferisci evitare l'inglese quando possibile)

Moltes gràcies per el teu missatge, te'l contestaré en català perquè dius que el vares estudiar però si no entens qualque cosa, m'ho dius, d'acord?

Que si he mirat d'aprendre una llengua italiana? Bé me fa una gran pena informar-te que no, mai. No perquè no m'interessin, lluny d'això, de fet, molt sovint mir videos en altres llengües italianes, i escolt la música feta en piemontès, en sard etc. Lo que pasa és que vaig molt enfeinat i ja tenc les mans plenes amb el basc, el català, el gallec i d'aqui un poc, el aranès també. Llavors no m'hi he fixat com es deu. Clar, si visqués a Palermo, aprendria el sicilià amb moltes ganes. Me falta però una relació humana per llançar-me al aprenentatge d'aquesta o d'altres llengües. Així era el cas del basc, el vaig començar a aprendre per mor d'una amiga meva basca. Tant de bo tengués un amic italià que xerràs una llengua italiana...

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 pm
by nooj
Another beautiful song by Huntza which will serve as an occasion for me to talk about ladybirds.

Elurretan kantari dabiltza
Marigorringo eta kilkerrak.
Margotu dituzte
Mendietako paretak.

Singers abound in the snows
Ladybirds and crickets
They have painted
The walls of the mountains

Amets hegalariak, ta txori kantariak
Luma gogorrak ta hauskorrak harriak.
Bizipozak neguak orbelez janzten ditu
Nahiz ta guri biluzik iruditu.

Winged dreams and singing birds
Hard feathers and fragile stones
Joie de vivre clads the winters with leaf litter
Although to us, winter seems naked

hauskorrak harriak - literally, fragile (are) the stones

Elurretan kantari dabiltza
Marigorringo eta kilkerrak
Margotu dituzte
Bihotzetako paretak.

Singers abound in the snows
Ladybirds and crickets
They have painted
The walls of the hearts...

Lainoetan, lainoetan, lainoetan, hegoetan...
Gailurrean, lumazko lainoen artean, gailurrean!
Gailurrean, lumazko lainoen artean, gailurrean!

In the clouds, in the clouds, in the clouds, in the wings
On the peak, among the feather clouds, on the peak!
On the peak, among the feather clouds, on the peak!

Lainoetan - only in the Gipuzkoan dialect, lainoa means clouds. It normally means fog.


Here is a map of the word 'ladybird, ladybug' from the monumental dialectical survey Euskararen Herri Hizkeren Atlasa (EHHA). As you can see, there is a healthy amount of variation for this insect, but most have the common element of a female name + the colour red.

For example, in Nafarroa and in Behe-Nafarroa, there is kattalingorri, from the feminine name Kattalin + the colour red gorri.
In most of Gipuzkoa, andremari from the noun andere, meaning lady + mari, also a female name. So ladybug in these Gipuzkoan dialects is Lady Mary.

The word that Huntza uses in this song for ladybug, marigorringo, is found in much of Bizkaia and has also been accepted as a designation for the insect in the standard dialect. Marigorringo comes from mari 'Mary' + gorringo 'the yolk of an egg'. That is to say, it refers to the reddish colour of the yolk of an egg.

But you can have a feminine garment, such as a skirt or an apron. Observe gonagorri 'red skirt' and amonamaltalgorri 'red grandma's apron'. The red colour is in the scientific Latin name for the ladybug as well. Coccinus means 'scarlet, crimson very red', derived from the insect which the Romans referred to as coccum, and which they used to dye their fabric.

I have found by asking Moroccans that in Tashelhit, depending on the Tashelhit dialect, you call them mrim n igran, literally Miriam (=Mary) of the fields or '3cha n igran', that is to say, Aisha of the fields. So in the Berber languages, the association with a female holds. By the way, the Tashelhit word igr comes from Latin/African Romance ager, meaning field.

As for Moroccan Arabic, it depends on the dialect again, but I've found this to be relatively common: 7myer jdda, that is to say, 'the little donkey of the grandmother'. Another Moroccan told me that some people refer to ladybirds as taxi sghar (!), 'little taxis'. This is what a taxi looks like in Casablanca:


But wait, I'm not finished with ladybugs yet! Of course, I had to talk about Galician.

This is a fascinating series of linguistic videos that the Galician autonomous TV channel, TVG has been releasing. The point of this series is to collect and talk about dialectical diversity in Galician. TVG suggests a word on their Instagram account, and the audience sends in words that they themselves have heard or used. I find the concept and the execution to be simple but brilliant at the same time. In Galician as in Basque, there is a LOT of dialectical (if not idiolectical!) variation, but the standard ones are maruxiña (a diminutive of Maria) and xoaniña (c.f. Portuguese joaninha).

The presenter sings several popular songs or ditties or rhymes that feature the ladybird with other names. It's a chicken-egg problem, whether it was the rhyme that gave the name to the ladybird, or whether they have merely popularised its usage. For example, reirrei is a popular word for the ladybird in the south of Galicia, meaning literally Kingking, which is associated with this rhyme:

Rei, rei... cantos anos durarei?
King King, how long shall I live?

The use of insects as the subject of divination seems to have been quite widespread in earlier times, because there's another name that the presenter mentions, (a)diviñon, meaning 'diviner'. It is associated with this rhyme:

adiviñon, adiviñon, mañá fai sol ou non?
Diviner, diviner, tomorrow, will it be sunny or not?

Interestingly enough, asking the ladybird for predictions on the future is not only true of Galician but of Basque as well. There is a multitude of traditional rhymes in Basque as well.

Amona mantangorri
zeruan zer berri?

In heaven, what's the news?

Marigorringo, marigorringo,
biher edo etzi eurie eingo. (in standard Basque, bihar edo etzi, euria egingo)

Ladybird, ladybird
Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, will it rain?

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:28 pm
by nooj
And to finish off, here are some of the words collected for Catalan. There is a dizzying variety of forms:

marieta, poriol, pariol (o oriol), voliol, boliol (L'Alguer, Viladrau), buriol/curiol (Tortosí), papiol (Selva), papallol ([-ul)] (Conflent), juliol (L'Alguer i Vinaròs), gallineta (gallineta cega (sud del País Valencià), gallineta de borràs, gallineta del cel, gallineta de Nostre Senyor, gallineta de la Mare de Déu), formigol (valencià), cuqueta de Sant Miquel, bou de Sant Jordi, vaqueta de Sant Antoni, senyoreta (Capcir), catarineta (Conflent), catarina/catalina, margarideta (del bon Déu) (Rosselló), mariol·lo (Sóller), animeta (Vallespir), i volamaria (Vallespir), voliaina (Cerdanya), voliol

Marieta is widely used in Catalonia. In Valencia, they refer to the ladybird as a little chicken, or in the case of south Valencia, the blind little chicken.

I already posted a dialect map of Mallorca in a previous post, but I'll put it here again. Source is the Atles Lingüístic del Domini Català.


In Llucmajor they say poporiol, in Campos where I used to live they say marieta (like in Catalonia), in Inca they say poriol, in Son Servera, they say bover del bon Jesus (the cowherd of good Jesus). In Ciutat, that is to say Palma, they say marieta. By the way, the reason why we call Palma Ciutat and the rest of Mallorca as the part forànea is that back in the day, Palma literally was the only big city in all of Mallorca. And that has stuck.

There are also rhymes in Mallorca associated with the ladybug, but unlike in Galician and in Basque, they don't have to do with the weather.

I repeat here what my Mallorcan friend told me he says in his town, close to Llucmajor. First you hold the ladybird in your hand:

Poriolet pintat, a on tens s'enamorat? per aquí o per ciutat?

Little painted ladybird, where do you have your beloved? Around here or in Ciutat?

You then blow on the ladybird. If the ladybird flies away, your beloved is in Palma. If the ladybird stays, that means your beloved is 'around here', that is to say, somewhere in town.

So this rhyme has to do with love! I find it adorable.

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:01 am
by nooj
Anari is a Basque singer songwriter. She's been compared to PJ Harvey but as a great fan of PJ Harvey, I don't think that's fair to either of them. This song is called Harriak, rocks.

Nik besoa eman
zuk eskua hartu.
Hala ere, beldurrik ez didazula diozu.

I gave my arm
You took only my hand
And yet you say that you're not afraid of me.

Zeru beltzetik elur zuria ari du,
bakoitzak murrua bere erara egiten du.
Harri pila bat dut zain ohean
utzidazu gaur gordetzen zurean.

White snow is falling from a black sky.
Each makes a wall in their own manner.
A pile of rocks is waiting for me in bed.
Let me hide in yours today.

Badira gau ilunean baino
ikusten ez diren hainbat gauza.
Beldurrak eta arrainak
hil arte hazi eta hazi eta hazi.

There are many things that can only be seen
In the dark night.
Both fears and fishes
Keep on growing and growing and growing
Until they die.

Behin zubi bat oso osorik jan nuen
lehenengo harritik azkenera
ta hainbeste nahi nuenera
ez joan.

One time, I ate whole an entire bridge.
From the first to the last rock.
In order to not go
Where I wanted so much

Arrain bat oparituko dizut nola hazten den ulertzeko zenbat ur behar duen arnasteko, zenbat ur bitzitzeko, harri pila bat dugu metatua begien atzeko aldean: zubiak, murruak, bideak, etxeak, harriak finean, gorputzak, galderak, begiak, hitzak, giltzak eta oheak, Diogenesen sindrome emozional batek jota bezala, amets zaharrak ereiten ditugu gorputz berri eta emankorretan, nor garen ahaztu arte opaltzen besteen hankarteetan, besarka nazazu gogor iztarrekin hegan ez ateratzeko, zure barrura sartu nahi nuke nor garen ikusteko, beldur bat oparituko dizut nola hazten den ulertzeko, zenbat zu behar duen arnasteko, zenbat gu bizitzeko...

I'll give you a fish, to understand how it grows, how much water it needs to breath, how much water to live, we've piled up a bunch of rocks behind our eyes: bridges, walls, paths, houses, rocks, in the end, bodies, questions, eyes, words, keys and beds, as if we are afflicted by an emotional Diogenes syndrome, we plant old dreams in new and fertile bodies, giving ourselves away until we forget who we are in the loins of others, hug me hard with your legs so that I don't fly off, I want to enter into you to see who we are, I'll give you a fear to understand how it grows, how much yous it needs to breath, how much uses it needs to live.

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:52 am
by nooj
guyome wrote:I had to look up entà, apparently it is specific to the Gascon dialect.

You made me interested so I looked it up as well. In Gascon and in the subdialect Aranese, entà can be reduced to tà. Entà/tà can be used to mean the equivalent of Catalan cap a (direction, towards) as well as per a (finality, beneficiary). Standard Occitan only has per to cover all of these meanings. Here are some examples of Aranese that I found online that I 'translated' to standard Occitan.

Vengui tà hèr un (ar)ram de flors

Standard Occitan
Veni per far un ram de flors

Entath - entà + eth
Ètz toti prèsti entath 3x3 de Bàsquet dera Hèsta de Vielha?

Standard Occitan
Sètz totes prèstes pel/per lo 3x3...

guyome wrote:You probably already know about it but I thought I'd mention Mintzoak, "a platform for the Northern Basque Country’s oral memory", which offers hours of interviews with inhabitants of the northern provinces.

Milesker gogoratzeagatik!

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:10 pm
by nooj
Guk euskaraz hitz egiten dugu esateko modu desberdinak erakusten dituen web-orri on bat. Klik egin entzuteko.

A good webpage that shows the different dialects in the Basque Country, for saying 'we speak Basque'. Click to listen.

In the unified dialect, it is guk euskaraz hitz egiten dugu.

GIPUZKERA: guk euskaraz hitzeiten deu (Beasain)

Guk euskeraz itedeu!! (Zarautz, Ana Altuna Riaño)

LAPURTERA: gu eskuaraz mintzatzen ga (Senpere)

BEHE-NAFARRERA: Gu eskuaraz ai gitxu (Jutsi)

ZUBEROERA: Gük (e)uska(ra)z hitz egiten dügü (Altzai)

BIZKAIERA: Guk euskeraz eitxen dou berba (Lekeitio)

Guk euskeraz eittejuau (Mallabia, Ibon Zubiate)

Guk euskeraz itten du berba! (Oñati, Ainhoa Aiastui)

NAFARRERA: Gu (e)uskeraz mintzatzen gara (Irazoitz)

ARABA: Guk euskaraz itten dau (Aramaio)

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:49 pm
by nooj

The author of the lyrics is Daniel Loddo, the quite incredible Occitan ethnomusicologist who plays the guitar in the group (and is incidentally blind). There's something very haunting about a hymn to one's country that has no official borders, no name, no state, no flag, no existence. A land of people without papers or homes, a land of 'eternal wanderers', if I may compare it to the old anti-Semitic trope. But whereas in the days of European nationalism, a people without a country were looked on suspiciously, as they could not be taken to be 'patriotic' to any of the emerging European nations, here it is taken in a defiantly positive sense.

Se sabiatz, Mon pais
A ni nom ni Frontièra
Dins lo vèrs s'espandis
D'una fola epopèia

Se trapa pes camins
Dins lo sang de las pièras
Dins lo caud del rasim
Dins l'amar de l'albièra

If you knew, my country
Has no name or border
It expands in the verse
Of a mad epic poem.

It is found along the roads
In the blood of the rocks
In the warmth of the grape
In the bitterness of the hoarfrost

Se sabiatz, Mon pais
S'escond per las genèstas
Dins la flore qu'espelis
Dins lo cor de las bèstias
Dins l'ombra que blanquis
Dins l'autan que despelha
Dins la doçor d'un nis
O lo pols d'una fuèlha.

If you knew, my country
Hides itself in the genèstes
In the flower that blooms
In the heart of wild animals
In the shadow that bleaches
In the south-eastern wind that strips naked
In the softness of a nest
In the pulse of a leaf

genèstas - Spartium junceum, Spanish Broom

Mon pais es aval
Al mièg d'una carrièra
Ont dançan tres enfants
Per un sou de misiéra
Es aval dins lo crit
D'un freta-sauvatons
Que rebala vencit
Sens espèr de retourn

My country is down there
In the middle of a street
Where three children dance
For a miserable pittance
There it is, down there, in the cry
Of a shoe-shiner
Who wanders, defeated,
Without hope of coming back

D'un freta-sauvatons - a compound that seems to come from fretar + sabaton (shoes). In other words, a shoe-shiner.

Mon pais es al fons
D'una preson de trévas
Que n'an per tot resson
Que lo marcha o créba

Mon pais es pertot
Ont son los privats d'ésser
Sens papièrs ni aunor
Sens ostal o sens tèrra

My country is in the back
Of a prison of ghosts
That have as their only echo
"March or drop dead"

My country is everywhere
Where beings are deprived of existence
Without papers or honour
Without home or without land.

Se sabiatz, Mon pais
A ni nom ni Frontièra
Dins lo vèrs s'espandis
D'una fola epopèia

Se trapa pels chauchilhs
Lo canin d'una talvera
Lo fisson del perilh
La joia bartasièrra

If you knew, my country
Has no name or border
It expands in the verse
Of a mad epic poem.

It's found in the pools
The harshness of a talvera
The dart of danger
The joy of being in the bush

talvera - this word has given the name of the group, a talvera is the edge of an uncultivated plot of land, a liminal wild place.

Mon pais es aqui
Ont grana la colèra
Sul punh que se brandis
Dins lo fuoc, la lassièra
Dins l'èrsa que nos pren
Dins l'èrsa que nos geta
Dins l'apèl de l'avenc
Dins las mans de l'aubeta

My country is here
Where rage produces sheafs
In the fist stretched out
In the fire, the faltering
In the wave that takes us
In the wave that throws us
In the call of the abyss
In the hands of the dawn

Se sabiatz mon pais
S'amaga per las raras
De l'ora que fugis
E que sembla eternela
Dins la colors passidas
Dins las sentors salvatjas
Dins la saba de vida
Dins la paur de l'aigatge

If you knew, my country
Hides in the corners
From the hour that runs away
And which seems eternal
In the desaturated colours
In the wild scents
In the sap of life
In the fear of the flashflood

Pertot ont l'amor nais
Pertot ont l'amor puèlha
Dins lo fum del pantais
Lo breç d'una quimèra
Dins los mots d'un enfant
Dins l'algach d'una femna
Ont lo rire pren vam
Ont s'esquiçan las penas

Wherever love is born
Wherever love makes root
In the fog of a dream
In the cradle of a chimera
In the words of a baby
In the glance of a woman
Where laughter takes flight
Where pains are torn apart

Se sabiatz, Mon pais
A ni nom ni Frontièra
Dins lo vèrs s'espandis
D'una fola epopèia

S'escond al fons del riu
Dins lo secret de l'èrba
L'arma des recaliu
Dins lo les d'una quèrba

If you knew, my country
Has no name or border
It expands in the verse
Of a mad epic poem.

It hides at the bottom of the river
In the secret of the grass
The soul of a spark
In the smoothness of a handle

Mon pais resplendis
De mila cantalenas
Que dança a l'infinit
Un poble de serenas

Finta plan mon pais
El n'a dieu ni mèstre
Un canal que corris
Sens tralhas ni cabèstre

My country shines
With a thousand chants
And dances to infinity
A people of sirens!

Look well at my country
It has no God nor master
A horse at gallop
Without reins nor halter

Mon pais es pertot
Ont la sola batesta
Es de gardar lo gost
D'un lendeman de fèsta

Se sabiatz mon pais
Es pertot que t'espera
S'existis pas enloc
En sus la tèrra entièra

My country is everywhere
Where the sole woman fights
It's to preserve the flavour
Of the day after the party

If you knew, my country
Is everywhere around waiting for you
If it doesn't exist anywhere
That's because it is in the whole world.

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:37 am
by nooj
This is probably my favourite of Mikel Laboa's songs.

The words are from the Basque author Bernardo Atxaga. Within the poem, he cites two Zuberoan (from Ipar Euskal Herria) songs and retains the Zuberoan dialect used in them.

Long live our words.

Gure hitzak
Esan berriz esan
Ez daitezela ahaztu
Ez daitezela gal,
Elur gainean
Txori anka arinek
Utzitako arrasto sail
Ederra bezalaxe

Our words
Say them again and again
So that they are not forgotten
So that they are not lost
Like the beautiful
Trail of footprints
Left by the light legs of birds
On the snow

Txoritua norat hua
Bi hegalez airian

Where are you going little bird
With your wings in the air?

For the full song in Zuberoan, see here.

In Batua:

Txoritxo norantz hoa?
Bi hegalez airean

Zer dio isiltzan denak
Isiltzen denean?

Gizon galduak, nork lagunduko?
Miseria sufri ezin dutenak

What does the one who silences say
When he himself falls silent?

Who will help lost men?
Ones who cannot stand misery.

Oi lur, oi lur, ene lur enea…

Maitea nun zira
Nik ez zaitut ikusten
Ez berririk jakiten
Nurat galdu zira

Ay earth, ay earth, my earth, ay

My beloved, where are you?
I do not see you
I don't know what's happened to you
Where have you gone off to?

In Batua:

Maitea, non zara?
Norantz galdu zara?

Re: Euskara (berriro)

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am
by nooj

A Mallorcan friend of mine with an interesting trait that is characteristic of certain dialects in Mallorca, namely Lloseta, Alaró and Binissalem and in the east part of Menorca, which is the replacement of the schwa with an open vowel /ɛ/.

For example, the combination of the infinitive and pronoun la and les is not pronounced with a schwa, as in the rest of the dialects of the island dialects, but with a /ɛ/. So whereas someone in Palma would pronounce conèixer-la as [konəʃəɫ'ɫə], someone from Lloseta would say [konəʃəɫ'ɫɛ]. Whereas someone from Llucmajor would say prenc as [prənc], someone from Alaró would say [prɛnc].

Notice how my friend says 'vaig a veure-la' [vɛwɾə'ɫɛ].