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crush
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby crush » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:40 pm

Nire ustez, gauza berdina gertatzen da ia leku guztietan. Esate baterako, estatu batuetan guraso (eta aitona-amona) askok ez diete nahi seme-alabei bere jatorrizko hizkuntza transmititu. Oso egoera triste da baina zoritxarrez asko ikusten dena. Nik neuk Espainiara etorri baino lehen ez nekien hemen beste hizkuntzak hitz egiten zirela :oops:

Hemen askotan esaten duten bezala, euskara, katalanera eta galiziera askoz erabilgarriagoak dira ingelesez (adibidez) baino, ia denok ezagutzen dugulako herrialdeko hizkuntza dakien bat. Eta gainera, gaztelaniadunei katalanera edo galiziera ikastea ez litzaieke asko kostatuko.
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nooj
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:19 am

crush wrote:Nire ustez, gauza berdina gertatzen da ia leku guztietan. Esate baterako, estatu batuetan guraso (eta aitona-amona) askok ez diete nahi seme-alabei bere jatorrizko hizkuntza transmititu.


Ez dietela nahi? Edo ez direla gai? Elebitasuna sustatzen duen ingurune batean, ez litzateke ia-ia beharrezkoa izango halako hautaketa bat egitea, hau da, transmititzeko hautaketa ala ez, naturalki gertatuko litzatekeelako. Estatu batuek gaztelania sustatuko balute, eskola eta komunikabideen bidez, arazo hori ez litzateke existituko.

crush wrote:Hemen askotan esaten duten bezala, euskara, katalanera eta galiziera askoz erabilgarriagoak dira ingelesez (adibidez) baino, ia denok ezagutzen dugulako herrialdeko hizkuntza dakien bat. Eta gainera, gaztelaniadunei katalanera edo galiziera ikastea ez litzaieke asko kostatuko.


Bai, konforme nago: baina egun hori oraindik urrun-urrun dugu, jadanik zaila da konbentzitzea euskara garrantzitsua izan behar dela Euskal Herrian, hementxe. Zenbat madrildar izango ote dira euskara ikasi nahi dutenak Madrilen? Edo okerrago, zenbat Madrilgo gurasok hori nahiko lukete seme-alabentzat? Hori dena oso zaila ikusten dut.

Has dezagun norbere etxean...
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:14 pm

I'm reading a very interesting interview with Jose Ramon Etxebarria, a Basque writer, nuclear physicist, actvist among other things.

He recounts his time, in 1972, being tortured by the Guardia Civil, the Spanish police. A police officer had come around to his parents place asking to see him, claiming that he wanted to ask questions about the license for a gun. Etxebarri had no idea that it would be anything else so he willingly went to the police station the next day. They shipped him to the quartier general called La Salve in Bilbao. They accused him, without any proof of course, of being a part of the terrorist organisation ETA.

The many cases of torture committed in this police station and in police stations around the country are infamous, during the dictatorship and afterwards, when Spain became a democracy. As late as the 2000s, when ETA was still functioning.

ETA member Gorka Lupiañez was arrested in 2007. He has been sentenced to fifty years in prison. He claimed that he was tortured for eight days, some of that torture happening in La Salve. Things include beatings, inserting a stick into his rectum etc.

He took his case (Gorka-Joseba Lupiañez Mintegi v. Spain CCPR/C/125/D/2657/2015) to the the Human Rights Committee of the United Nations, which in 2019 condemned Spain for torture, and that it should find and punish the ones responsible, compensate Gorka for the torture and ensure that it never happens again.

Joka hasi ziren

Joka, bai, baina ez edozein modutan. Mendiko arroparekin nengoen, egun horietan Zuberoatik ibilia nintzelako, eta, galtzerdi lodiak kendu gabe, botak kendu eta belauniko ipini ninduten. Ondo oratu, salomondar zutabearen antzeko formako makila batekin, danba-danba-danba...oinazpietan jotzen ninduten. Terriblea da mina. Gero eskailera batera ere lotu ninduten eta buruz behera ipinita segitu zuten kolpeka, oinazpietan. Funtsean, oinetako kolpeak izan ziren. Ezin duzu sinistu nolako mina ematen duen. Konortea galdu eta momentu batez horrela egon nintzen, galduta-edo. Gero berriro hasi ziren. Une batean hiltzeko desiratzen nengoen. Ezin duzu gehiago, eta nahiago duzu sufrimenduarekin bukatu.

Hiru egun egon zinen La Salven?

Bai, baina tortura lehen egunean izan zen. Deseginda geratu nintzen, etzanda egon behar izan nuen, eta egun horietan, dardarka eta..ea noiz itzuliko ziren beldur nintzen. Antsietatea eta hori dena pasatu nituen: "Etorriko badira berriro, eta hasten badira..." Ulertzen? Beldur izugarria duzu. Gainera, zelan esango nuen ez nekiena...tira, askotan eurek nahi dutena esaten duzu. Baina, nonbait, ni ez nintzen inportantea, eta beste bi egun eduki ninduten han oinak baretzen. Hirugarren egunean, libre.

Torturak arrasto sakona utzi dizu?

Lehenengo momentutik kontatu nuenez, ez dut trauma berezirik eduki. Suertea izan dut, lehenengotik kontatu dudalako. Hori bai, atxiloketaren bat zegoen bakoitzean, ezin nuen gauean lo egin. Urtetan egon nintzen horrela. Nik ezer jakin gabe, begira zer egin zidaten...zer egingo ote zieten atxilotutakoei...



They started beating you.

Yes, but not in any old fashion. I was still in my mountain clothes because I'd just been in Zuberoa, and without taking off my thick socks, they took off my boots and they pushed me on my knees. They held me firm, and with a stick that was shaped like a Solomonic column, bam bam bam, they hit me on my soles. The pain was terrible. Then they tied me to a ladder upside down and they continued hitting me in my soles. Basically they were strikes to the feet. You can't believe how painful it is. I lost consciousness and for a moment I hung there, sort of lost. Then they started again. At one point I wanted to die. You can't go on any more, and you want the pain to end.

You were there at La Salve for three days?

Yes, but the torture took place on the first. I was shattered, I had to lie down, and during those days, I was shaking...and I was afraid of when they'd come back. I had anxiety and all that: "If they come back again, and they start..." Do you understand? You were terribly afraid. And thinking about how I would say what I didn't know...well, a lot of the times you say what they themselves want to hear. But it seems that I wasn't important, and the two other days I spent recuperating. On the third day, freedom.

Did the torture leave a lasting mark on you?

As I shared what I suffered from the get-go, I haven't had any special trauma. I was lucky, because I told people everything from the first moment. But it's true, each time that someone was arrested, I couldn't sleep at night. I was that way for years. Not knowing anything, seeing what they did to me...(thinking about) what they would do the prisoners.
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nooj
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:14 pm

I found out about the Lithuanian poet Nijolė Miliauskaitė through a Basque collection of her poetry. She is hardly known about in Spain, in any language. For an indication of her unjust obscurity, she is known in Wikipedia in only three languages. One in Lithuanian, one in Basque and one in Hill Mari (!). Whatever the reason, I'm glad I knew her through Basque, not Spanish, through the wonderful translation of Leire Bilbao.

Here is one such poem.

festa dago gau honetan, ilbete
gau honetan, izadi guztia
zelatan, ikusminez


There is a party tonight, full moon
On this night, all of nature
Is lying in wait, anxious to see

jokoak
zelai gaineko uretan
ehunka urteko zuhaitzen azpian

Games
In the dew on the meadow
Under hundred year old trees

igelak korroka
irten berria den
ilargiari so gaude

The frogs are croaking
We are watching
The moon that has just come out

lore-hostoak bata bestearen segidan:
zabalduko balitz bezala
nire bihotza

Flower petals one after the other:
As if should open
My heart
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:35 am

An article published today in the newspaper Berria. I want to show this article because it captures the tenor and the general line of argument of Basque nationalists. Basque nationalists, like Catalan nationalists, believe that their languages are threatened with extinction and that without an independent state, they are finished.

Personally, I agree with Basque nationalists when they say that Spanish and French are not Basque languages: they're just languages spoken by Basques. In a future Basque state, I would certainly hope that there would be only one official language: Basque. French and Spanish would be protected of course, so as to not repeat the attitude and behaviours of what Basques themselves suffered at the hands of Spain and France, but clearly all the priority should be given to Basque.

For me, the parallel is saying that Japanese is a language of Korea. The Japanese imperialists and colonists imposed their language on us after they annexed our country. We were lucky, due to historical happenstance, we won our national independence from the Japanese Empire, and we still have our language because of that. If we were in the position of the Basques, deprived of our own state, separated and under the thumb of two hostile nation-states for centuries? I would fear for Korean.

Independentzia eta euskara erlazionatzen diren bakoitzean, Irlandaren porrot linguistikoa jarriko dizu norbaitek mahai gainean. Hain gutxi maite al duzue zuen herria, munduan porrot egin duen bakanetakoa jartzeko ispilu gisan? Ez al dugu itxaropen gehiago merezi, ongi atera diren prozesu askatzaile linguistikoak gurera ekarri eta haietatik zer ikasi dezakegun proposatuz? Ez al dira ispiluan jartzeko modukoak Norvegia, Estonia, Lituania, Suedia, Eslovenia, Letonia, Txekia eta beste asko? Nondik dator beldur hori, munduko estatu aske guztiek defendatzen eta hobesten duten independentziarekiko? Denentzat da ona, guretzat ezik? Zer gara, ezer antolatzen ez dakiten tximinoak?

Nolatan edukiko zukeen Islandiak, bere 350.000 biztanlerekin, Literatura Nobel sari bat, Danimarkatik independizatu eta bere hizkuntza indartzeko boterearen baliabide guztiak erabili ez balitu? Edo Norvegiak dituen lau Nobelak, 1904ko independentziarekin norvegiera bultzatzea erabaki ez balu? Nola burutu zuen Israelek halako balentria, hilda zegoen hebreera piztea, egun zortzi milioi hiztun izateraino, ez bada independentziarekin? Tel Aviv-eko tiradera batean dago hizkuntza politikarik onenaren plangintza estrategikoa.

Irlandaren diskurtsoak auto-ukazioan ditu oinarriak, gure erraietatik erauzi ezin dugun ezerez-konplexu sakonean. Funtsean independentzia nahi ez dutenen aitzakia gisan funtzionatzen du: begira, estatuarekin ere ezin da hizkuntza salbatu, ahantz dezagun eldarnioa! Inperialismotik askatu ezin denaren azken heldulekua. Hain da astuna espainolaren eta frantsesaren pisua euskaldunengan, ezin dutela irudikatu ere egin hori inoiz gainetik kendu dezakegunik. Eta hortik sortzen da beste diskurtso toxikoa, hizkuntzen arteko elkarbizitzarena, diglosia gero eta desorekatuagora garamatzana; eta diglosia gaizki bukatzen da historian zehar: hizkuntza gutxitua gero eta gutxituagoa, gero eta aleatorioagoa, ez-beharrezko, azkenean edergailu bilakatu arte, meritu txiki bat, eta luzarora, folklore hizkuntza.

Edozein enpresetan baztertuko lukete funtzionatu ez duen modelo bat eredutzat hartzea, ondo atera diren beste 30 modelo daudenean. Euskararen normalizazioa desiratzea Euskal Herriaren independentzia desiratu gabe, beharrezko ikusi gabe, hori da sartu diguten ziririk borobilena, gure artean hedatu den diskurtsorik toxikoena. Zur eta lur uzten nau independentziak ez duela euskara salbatzea bermatzen dioen jendeak. Zerk bermatuko du, menpekotasunak? Holokausto linguistikoa praktikatu duten bi estaturen barnean jarraitzeak? Niretzat zalantzarik ez duen ebidentzia da euskarak ez duela XXI. mendea gaindituko independentzia politikorik gabe. Espainiaren eta Frantziaren mendean gaudelarik euskara indartu daitekeela sinestea auto-iruzurra da, gezur arriskutsu bat. Beti kuestionatu eta boikotatuko dute euskararen edozein aurrerapauso, haien estatu elebakarrentzat irain bat delako hizkuntza aniztasuna nazioaren mugen barruan. Hala dekretatu zuten, eta hala izango da, hizkuntza bakarrak osatzen duelako euren eraikuntza nazionalaren muina, euren hizkuntzak, noski; gurea besteena da, gu ez baikara haiek, ezberdin hitz egiten dugun bitartean. Menderakuntza horren oinarrietako bat suntsiketa linguistikoa da, badakitelako, aspalditik jakin ere, hizkuntza galtzen duen herria kikildu egiten dela bere aspirazio nazional eta identitarioetan, ezabatu aktore politiko gisan, konplexuz betetzen, bere burua gutxietsiz etengabe; eta gutxiespena transmititu egiten da belaunaldiz belaunaldi, etxez etxe, eskolaz eskola, idazletik idazlera.

Bere hizkuntzaz harro dagoen herri bat zailagoa da birrintzen, hori Katalunian garbi ikusi dugu, eta garbi ikusi zuen XIX. mendeko burgesiak katalanari eustea erabaki zuenean, hizkuntza murraila bat dela, Espainiaren baitan guztiz asimilaturik ez geratzeko. Ez da kasualitatea, katalanez idazten duten hamar idazleetatik bederatzi independentziaren alde egotea, eta espainolez idazten dutenen %99k Katalunia Espainiaren mende ikusi nahia. Hor hautu politiko bat dago, Kataluniaren biziraupenari hizkuntza propioak dakarkion plusaren kontzientzia irmo bat; eta alderantziz, Katalunia askatuta nahi ez duten idazleen kasuan, espainola erabiliz eta hedatuz Espainiarekiko loturak sendoago bihurtuko diren kalkulua.

Zer jarrera hartuko lukete euskal idazleek mugimendu independentista sendo eta taxuzkoa sortuko balitz? Mendetako kolonizazio kulturalaren ondorioetan igeri ez ote gabiltzan susmoa daukat. Gezur hori, gaztelera ere hemengo hizkuntza dela esaten denean, adibidez. Etimologikoki gaztelera Gaztelako hizkuntza da, eta historikoki koertzioz inposatu duen prozesu baten ondorioz hedatu da hizkuntza arrotza gure herrian. Baldin eta ez badugu hartzen Euskal Herria Gaztelaren (versus Espainiaren) zatitzat. Frantsesa hemengoa da?

Hemen dago, bai, gaztelera; baina ez da hemengoa. Ez dute lortu euskara ezabatzerik, eta horrek min ematen die. Baina lortu dute gure anbizioa geuk inposiziotzat har dezagun, eta horrek lasaitzen ditu. Kolonizazioa auto-kontzientziaren kamuste prozesu luze bat da, ezertan hasi aurretik desaktibatu beharrekoa; bestela, euskaraz egin arren alienazioa barreiatuko dugu etengabe. Desikasi da, gurean, aditzik politikoena.

Euskaldunok ezin dugu sinetsi euskarak etorkizun hobea erdiets dezakeenik; mende askotako akulturizazioak gogor kolpatu gaitu, otzan bihurtu gaitu, beti baimena eskatzera, txikiak garela pentsatzera, intelektual askok etengabe errepikatzen duen bezala, euren txikitasuna babesteko konplexua sozializatuz. Gaixotasun identitarioa nozitzen dugu, gure hizkuntzarekin norbait molestatzen badugu pauso bat atzera ematera garamatzana.

Txikiak gara auzoko erraldoiekin alderatuz, frantsesarekin eta espainolarekin, baina mundua da auzo, gaur egun, eta ez gara bat ere txiki beste nazio eta hizkuntza askoren ondoan. Aldea da estatua duten herrialdeetan inork ez duela esaten «gure literatura txikia da», literatura nazionala delako, de facto, eta haien mugak dira euren mundu sinboliko eta erreferentzialaren muga bakarrak. Ez dute erraldoirik ondoan, mendez mendez «zu txikia zara, ezdeusa zara, ni gabe ez zara ezer!» xuxurlatuz. Eta guk bai. Eta okerrena da sinetsi egin dugula.

Presio hori gainetik kentzeko bada ere behar dugu estatu bat; horrela, S-rik gabe.



Every time that independence and the Basque language is linked, someone will put on the table the case of the linguistic failure of Ireland. Do you love your country so little that you put one of the few cases that have failed in the world as a mirror? Don't we deserve more hope by proposing that we could learn from those cases and bringing it to our case the liberating linguistic processes that have ended up well? Aren't Norway, Estonia, Lithuania, Sweden, Slovenia, Latvia, the Czech Republic and many others fit to compare with in the mirror? Where does that fear of independence come from that all the free states of the world defend and prefer for themselves? Is it good for everyone except us? What are we, monkeys who don't know how to organise anything?

How was Iceland, with its 350,000 inhabitants, able to have a Nobel Prize of Literature if it had not used all the resources at its disposal to strengthen its language and separate from Denmark? Or the four Nobels that Norway has, if it had not chosen to push Norwegian when it became independent in 1904? How was Israel able to achieve its heroic feat, reviving Hebrew that was dead, which has now 8 million speakers, if not with its independence? The best strategic language policy plan can be found in a box in Tel Aviv.

The discourse about Ireland has its foundations in self-negation, in the deep we're-nothing complex that we are unable to uproot from inside of us. Basically it works as an excuse for those who who don't want independence: look, even with a state, a language can't be saved, so let's forget about this folly. It's the last handle to hold onto for those who cannot free themselves from imperialism. So heavy is the weight of Spanish and French upon us Basques, that we can't even imagine taking it off. And thus arises the other toxic discourse, the one of peaceful coexistence with other languages, a discourse that leads us to a diglossia that is more and more unbalanced. And diglossia ends badly throughout history: a minoritised language that is more and more minoritised, more and more accidental, unnecessary, until it finally becomes an embellishment, a mere merit, and in the long run, a folkoric language.

In any business, a model that hasn't worked would be dismissed when there are another 30 that have worked well. Wanting the normalisation of Basque without wanting the independence of the Basque Country, without seeng independence as necessary, that's the biggest lie that they've sold us, the most toxic of discourses that has been spread amongst our midst. People who say that independence won't guarantee the salvation of our language leave me shocked. What will guarantee it, our submission? Continuing to be part of two states that have practiced linguistic Holocaust against us? For me, it's clear without a shadow of a doubt that the Basque language will not survive the 21st century without our political independence. Believing that Basque can be strengthened whilst we are dependent on Spain and France is a fraud, a dangerous lie. They'll always question and boycott any advance that Basque makes, because for their monolingual states, linguistic diversity is an insult inside the borders of the nation. Thus have they decreed in the past, and thus it will be in the future, because only one language constitutes the nucleus of their national construction, their languages of course. Ours is the language of the others, because we are not them so long as we speak differently from them. One of the foundations of this subordination is the destruction of languages, because they know, and they've known it for quite some time, that a people who has lost their language, shrinks back in their national and identity aspirations, that it is eliminated as a political actor, is filled with complexes, puts itself down constantly, and this self-deprecation is transmitted from generation to generation, house to house, school to school, writer to writer.

A people that takes pride in its language is a people harder to destroy, and this we've seen clearly in Catalonia, and we see it clearly when the Catalan bourgeoisie of the 19th century decided to maintain Catalan as a language that served as a wall, so that they would not be totally assimilated into Spain. It's not a coincidence that 9 out of 10 writers that write in Catalan are in favour of independence, and that 99% of thsoe who write in Spanish want to see Catalonia under the rule of Spain. Over there, there is a political choice, a strong consciousness of the advantage that one's language brings to the survival of Catalonia. And vice versa, in the case of those writers who don't want to see a free Catalonia, by using and spreading Spanish, they calculate that the links with Spain will become strengthened.

But what position would Basque writers take if a strong independentist movement of quality were to arise? I suspect that we are swimming in the consequences of centuries of cultural colonisation. That lie for example, when it's said that Spanish is also a language of here. Etymologically, Castillian is the language of Castille, and the foreign language has expanded into our country as a consequence of a process that has historically imposed itself via force. If we don't take the Basque Country to be a part of Castille (versus Spain). Is French a language of here?

Yes, Spanish is here. But it is not FROM here. They haven't succeeded in wiping out Basque, and it hurts them that they couldn't. But they have succeeded in making us believe that our ambition is an imposition, and that eases their worries. Colonisation is a long process involving the weakening of self-consciousness, and it must be desactivated before we can start anything. Otherwise, even if we speak in Basque, we will still be propagating alienation. In ourselves we have unlearned the most political of verbs.

We Basques don't believe that we can achieve a better future. Centuries long aculturalisation has wounded us gravely, it's made us meek, always asking for permission, thinking that we are little, as many intellectuals like to repeat endlessly by socialising our complex in order to protect their smallness. We suffer from an identity sickness that leads us to take a step backwards if we annoy someone with our language.

We are indeed small if we compare ourselves to the giants of the neighbourhood, with French and with Spanish, but the world is our neighbourhood today, and we aren't even small at all compared to many other languages and nations. The difference is that in those countries that have their state, no one says 'our literature is small', because it is their national literature, de facto, and their limits are only the limits of their symbolic and referential world. They have no giant by their side eternally whispering to them 'you are small, you're nothing, you're nothing without me!'. We do. And the worst thing of all is that we've swallowed it.

We need a state to take this pressure off from us: like this, without the S. i.e. we need a State (estatu), not a status of autonomy (estatus)
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby guyome » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:00 pm

Interesting posts, thanks! The one about Etxebarria's experience reminded me of more recent attacks on Basque language newspapers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egin_(newspaper).

The article published in Berria raises interesting questions. My take on some of these:
- the Irish example should perhaps not be dismissed lightly because it shows that even when the political will is there, teaching the language in schools is not enough
- at the same time I agree that the Gaelic Revival relative failure must not act as a deterrent, if only because Irish at the beginning of the 20th c. was already in a much more dire situation than Basque ever was
- the Israeli/Modern Hebrew success story, while impressive, will be hard to emulate. From what I've seen, its success was in no small part due to 1) promoting a new identity (getting rid of the "ghetto/diasporic mentality", importance of cultivating the land, etc), something facilitated by the fact that the immigrants who adopted Hebrew were often young (wo)men, moving away from their family, to a new, often hostile, environment, 2) repression (through violence if need be) of languages other than Hebrew. Not sure if that's something that can (or should) be emulated in the Basque country.
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:16 am

Eneko Bidegain is from Baiona, thus he is a Basque from the 'French' Basque Country. In this article, he is addressing certain ideas that are current among Basques, namely that one should learn French to go visit the North and better understand Northeners. He's primarily talking to Northern Basques.

The lack of rapprochement between the two sides is a problem, one that is deepened by the language problem. Due to the two dominant languages being Spanish and French, and the increasing weaking of Basque in the North, sometimes it is hard to get news of what happens on the other side. The problem of ignorance is more acute for the Southerners, because the Basque speaking North is mostly rural except for the coasts which live off tourism, and which are overwhelmingly French speaking, The Basque speaking North is sparsely populated and much poorer than the South, meaning that they simply don't have the mediatic or economic weight to attract southern attention.

So unfortunately, despite the rhetoric of one unified Basque Country, many southern Basques don't visit or know much about what happens locally in the North. The incomprehension problem is widening because in the South, French, which historically used to be the foreign language that was most learned in schools, has taken a back seat to English, even in the zones close to the border.

The solution, of course, is simple and not so simple at the same time. Simple because the unifying language of communication between North and South must be Basque. None of this 'learn more French for southern Basques and more Spanish for northern Basques' nonsense, these are the colonising languages. Why satisfy yourself with the foreign languages, when you already have a unifying language, Basque?

Not so simple, because as some people argue, whilst that is true, learning the dominating languages can be a stop-gap measure in these desperate times when Basque is tittering on the edge in France. Learning French would not be a solution, but an emergency measure. I simply disagree with them.

Hizkuntzak ikastea beti da gauza aberasgarria, eta gure auzo herrietako bat izanik Frantzia (Espainia bezala), badu logika hizkuntza hori ikasteak. Artikulu honen helburua ez da erratea frantsesa ez dela ikasi behar, baizik eta frantsesa ikasteko erabilitako bi arrazoi horiei erantzutea.

Hasteko, Euskal Herrian ez daude hiru hizkuntza. Hizkuntza bat da berezkoa, eta beste bi azken mende eta erdian inposatu direnak, berezkoa (euskara) ordezkatzeko helburua izan dutenak eta linguizidioa egin eta egiten dutenak. Eta egoera hori naturala balitz bezala onartzea euskararen kontrako erasoak normaltzat jotzea litzateke. Horiek horrela, hizkuntza eskaerak lan munduak finkatzen ditu: zenbait lanetarako, Donostian berean adibidez, komeni da frantsesa jakitea. Baina, leku gehienetan ingeles maila on bat eskatzen dute, eta frantsesik ez. Horrek markatzen ditu irakaskuntzaren eta gurasoen lehentasunak. Ez Ipar Euskal Herrira egun edo asteburu pasa joateko beharrak. Hego Euskal Herriko jendeak ez badaki frantsesik, logika horren arabera, Hegoaldeko nehor ez litzateke joanen Landetara edo Parisera. Baina joaten dira. Italiara ere bai, italiera jakin gabe, Txinara txinera jakin gabe eta abar. Zergatik, beraz, Iparraldera joateko, behar da frantsesa? Ez dute, bada, kezkarik, Angeluko arropa dendetara joateko.

Horrelako solasekin ematen den mezua da: “Ipar Euskal Herrira joateko frantsesa jakin behar da; hots, ez badakizu frantsesik, normal da ez zaitezen joan”. Ez ditugu horrela animatzen Iparraldera joatera. Inkontzienteki ere, ari gara azpimarratzen Ipar Euskal Herria Frantzia dela. Eta penagarria da entzutea batzuetan frantsesa ikastera joateko ateraldiak egiten dituztela Hendaiara.

Eman behar dugun mezua justu alderantzizkoa da: Lapurdi, Nafarroa Behere eta Zuberoako euskaldunak bistaratu behar dira, eman behar dira bideak euskaldunak eroso senti daitezen, jakin dezaten non jaso dezaketen edozein zerbitzu euskaraz.

Ez ote da gibelera egitea Iparralderako frantsesa behar dela dioen mezu hori? Ez ote ditugu, funtsean, erdaldunak lasai utzi nahi? Alderantziz, gure herria euskalduntzen segitu behar da.

Hegoaldekoak Iparraldean eroso sentiarazteko indarra guk egin behar dugu, euskarari leku handiagoa eginez, arlo guzietan. Horretarako, seinaletika, menuak eta abar euskaratzearen aldeko indar handiagoa egin behar da, euskarazko zerbitzu gida erreferentziazko bat sortu, ostatu eta abarretan euskara lanerako hizkuntza beharrezkoa bihurrarazi.

Alternatiba, Lurrama, EHZ, Herri Urrats eta horrelako bestetan, publikoarekin harremana duten boluntarioak euskaldunak izan behar dira; eta erdaldunak jar bitez publikoarekin kontakturik ez dutenetan. Absurdua litzateke horrelako besta batzuetan deseroso sentiaraztea euskaldunak. Hego Euskal Herriko 12 urtetik gorako gehienak jadanik ez dira frantsesa ulertzen dutenak, beraz mintzo gara epe luzeko kontu batez. Oraingo haurrek frantsesa ikasteko behar duten denboran ikas dezakete adin bereko haurrek euskara, Lapurdin, Nafarroa Beherean eta Zuberoan.
Pentsatzen bada belaunaldi horri frantsesa irakastea dela aterabidea Ipar eta Hego Euskal Herria hurbiltzeko, erraten ari gara ondorengo belaunaldi luzeetan ez dela ikusten aukerarik Ipar Euskal Herrian euskara indartzeko. Hori ez bada ezkorra izatea…


Learning languages is always an enriching thing to do, and France being one of our neighbouring countries, like Spain (Basque nationalists consider France and Spain to be neighbours to the Basque Country, not their countries) learning that language has its logic. The aim of this article is not to say that French isn't necessary to learn, but to respond to two reasons often used for learning French.

To start with, in the Basque Country, there aren't three languages. There is one indigenous language, and two others that have been imposed on us in the last century and a half which have had as their goal the replacement of the indigenous one (Basque) and which continue to do so. And to accept that situation as if it were natural, would be to take as normal these attacks against Basque. Be that as it may, the job market determines language demand: for some jobs, in Donostia itself for example, knowing French is useful. But in most places, it's a good level in English that is demanded, and not French. This situation marks the priorities of education and parents, not the needs of going to pass the day or weekend in the North Basque Country. The people in the South Basque Country don't know French, so according to that logic, no one from the South would go to the Landes or Paris. But go they do. They go to Italy as well without knowing Italian, and to China without knowing Chinese etc. So why then, do you need French to go to the North Basque Country? They don't have any worries about going shopping for clothes in Angelu.

Isn't that message that says that French is necessary for the North Basque Country taking a step back? Fundamentally, aren't we wanting to make it easy for the foreign speakers? On the contrary, we need to continue making our country Basque-speaking.

The message that is given with such discourses is: to go to the North Basque County, one needs to know French. That is, if you don't know French, it's normal that you don't go there. With such talk, we don't encourage people to go to the North Basque Country. Unconsciously as well, we're reinforcing the idea that the North Basque Country is France. And it's shameful to hear people sometimes say that they're going to Hendaia to learn French.

The message that we need to give is precisely the opposite: Lapurdi, Nafarroa Behere and Zuberoa must be visualised as Basque speaking, pathways must be found so that Basque speakers feel confortable, so that they know where they can receive any service in Basque.

The strength to make those from the South feel comfortable in the North, we have to do ourselves, by giving greater space to Basque in all aspects. For this, we must make a greater effort in favour of making the signage, the menus, etc Basque. Creating a referential guide of services in Basque, making the language necessesary for work in hotels etc.

In the festivals of Alternatiba, Lurrama, EHZ, Herri Urrats and others like it, the volunteers who work with the public must be Basque speakers. Place the foreign language speakers (i.e. French and Spanish speakers) in the work that doesn't need contact with the public. It'd be absurd to make Basque speakers feel uncomfortable in festivals such as these. The majority of those over the age of 12 in the South Basque Country no longer understand French, so we're speaking about something that is a long-term thing. In the time that today's children need to learn French, children of the same age can learn Basque in Lapurdi, Nafarroa Beherea and Zuberoa.

If one thinks that teaching French to that generation is the solution to bringing South and North together, we're saying that in the next lengthy generations, it's unforseeable the possibility of strengthening Basque in the North Basque Country. If that isn't being pessimist...
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:05 am

But, one of the comments underneath the article is quite interesting and valuable. Linguistic guerilla warfare 101. Strengthen Basque from the inside out, even behind enemy lines.

If Basque speakers don't take those jobs, monolingual French and Spanish speakers will, people who might not have any interest in the Basque language or culture. Who will help further unravel the linguistic fabric of society instead of strengthen it.

Ados nago, euskara ez dugu inoiz bigarren mailan utzi behar, baina euskara gure hizkuntza nazional bakartzat dugunontzat, gaur egun frantsesa (hegoaldekoentzat) eta espainola (iparraldekoentzat) jakiteak kontuan hartu beharreko aukerak eskaintzen ditu.
Ni Oiartzunen bizi banaiz eta frantsesez ez badakit, oso gertu, Lapurdin, dauden lan-postuen %99an ez dut aukerarik izango. Nik frantsesa ondo menperatzen badut lan-postu horiek eskuragarri izango ditut eta Lapurdin lan egin edo bizi ahal izango naiz. Eta euskalduna naizenez nire lantokia, ingurunea etabar euskalduntzeko ekarpena egingo dut.
Aldiz, frantsesa ez badakit ez dut planteatu ere egingo Lapurdin lan egiteko aukera eta kasu askotan lan-postu horiek Frantziako jendeek beteko dituzte lantoki eta ingurunea are gehiago frantsestuz.
Mugaren beste norazkoan berdin-berdin.
Euskaltzaleok tinkoak izan behar dugu, baina burutsuak ere.


I agree, we must never put Basque on a second level, but for those of us who believe Basque is our sole national language, today knowing French (for those on the Southern side) and Spanish (for those on the Northern side) offers opportunities that must be taken into account.

If I live in Oiartzun (town in the South Basque Country) and I don't know French, very close to me, in Lapurdi (region in the North Basque Country), I won't have any chance in 99% of the work placements that are there. But if I have a solid knowledge of French, I have those jobs available and I'll be able to go work and live in Lapurdi. And as I'm a Basque speaker, I'll make a contribution to Basque-ifying my workplace, my environment etc.

On the other hand if I don't know French, I won't even pose to myself the question of going to Lapurdi and in many cases, those jobs will be filled by people from France (i.e. not from the Basque Country), and they will Frenchify even more the work place and the environment.

The same thing happens on the other side of the border with Spanish. We must be firm Basque nationalists, but crafty ones too.
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:23 am

There's a funny quote that I read about the Québécois:

Le véritable sport national des Québécois consiste à parler de langue.

The true national sport of the Québécois is speaking about language.

I don't think this is a massive exaggeration, at least on a public discourse level. And you don't have to be a Québec nationalist to suffer from this language anxiety!

The same could be true of the Basques, the Catalans, the Galicians. It approaches obsessive levels. Newspaper columns, websites, pundits, there's not a day that goes by without someone talking about language, the quality of the language, the threat to the language, opportunities to promote and strengthen the language etc. It can get quite exhausting, because you really have to adopt a siege mentality. All these populations have a high consciousness of their real or imagined precarious linguistic minoritisation. It's something that speakers in a comfortable linguistic position never have to think about. An English speaker in Australia is in a very privileged situation.
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Re: Euskara (berriro)

Postby nooj » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:10 am

A poem by the Basque poet Felipe Juaristi.

Geografia

Bertan jaio naizen arren
Ez dut ezagutzen nire herria
Nire hizkuntza bera duen arren
Ez dut ulertzen nire herria
Horixe da nire aberria
Poliki-poliki hiltzen nauena
Beti itzultzen naizen atzerria
Gaixo bat bere minera bezala


Although I was born there,
I do not known my country
Although it has my language
I do not understand my country
My motherland is the one
That's killing me slowly
It is the exile I always return to
Like a sick man returns to his wound.


A poem by the Basque poet Patxi Ezkiaga.
Udazkena da ta ez dit axolik,
erortzear nagoenean ere
okreak urrez tintatzen bait dit
nire heldutasun aroak bere

adarretan zintzilik daraman
errezil sagar eta udare
emale izanik daukadanean
eta ez dudan orotan eskale


Udazkena da ta ez dit axolik;
haizeteak lurrera naroa
xoxoak jan nazan edo euriak

astiro usteldua izan nadin;
naizen lurrak dakarkit beroa
ta geroa espero dudan lurrak


It is autumn, and I don't care
When I too am about to fall down
When the ocre dyes me with gold
My age of maturity

Comes to beg me
For the apple and the pear
That it has hanging on its branches
When I have some grown
Or even when I don't have any.

It is autumn, and I don't care;
The wind blows me to the ground
For the blackbird to eat me, or the rain

To slowly rot me.
The earth that I am brings me warmth
And the earth I'm waiting for brings me tomorrow.

nire heldutasun aroak bere

adarretan zintzilik daraman
errezil sagar eta udare
emale izanik daukadanean
eta ez dudan orotan eskale


These few lines are extremely difficult to parse, and one would have to think that the author purposely made it convoluted so that the reader or listener slams into it after the first easy lines of the stanza, and has to think about it. I parse it like this in prose:

nire heldutasun aroak bere etortzen da eskale gisa, bere adarretan zintzilik daraman errezil sagar eta udare eskatzeko, nik emale izanik, daukadanean eta ez dudan orotan.

The only difficulty is that the poet says daraman, and not daramatzan, as I would expect from a plural antecedent head errezil sagar eta udare. I have no explanation for that.
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