A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

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the1whoknocks
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby the1whoknocks » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:32 pm

Not much studying done this week. I skimped on sleep last weekend, and although it was fun, it messed with me all week. I have been continuing with Glossika, but have not written a word for the writing challenge. Luckily, even when I’m not studying, my life is set up in such a way that I still interact with Spanish daily; messages with friends, conversations at work (although often about daily stuff), podcasts, videos my from YouTube feed, telenovelas, whatever is in my Feedly feed. etc.

I’ve been musing about the way I’m approaching Spanish, and where I really want to go with it. After watching a few lectures by Stephen Krashen, following some YouTube polyglots, and rummaging through some logs here on the forum, I’ve decided to forget about SRS’ing and use any time I would have spent doing that, reading. I might come back to it one day, but I’m not enjoying it, and Spanish really should be like a hobby given my goals … I going to try to allow time do more of the heavy lifting.

Besides, I think writing and narrow listening/ reading has been working well. It just has not been leading to aquiring 25 words/ day. Any words I’m not learning from those activities probably just aren’t meant to be learned right now. ... Beyond the question of SRS, I think the doubt was about how I should be approaching vocabulary at this stage. I've heard it before, but I'm just now a bit more comfortable with just reading more, for now.

Recent reply to a question I asked on the matter.
Other members who don’t use SRS, and whose logs I need to run through.

Which brings me to consider what Spanish means for me, and where I want to go with it.

If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart. - Nelson Mandela


For a while, this was my absolute favorite quote which I associated with language learning. I think it holds so much truth. My boss often says that, “99% of the problems around here [work] boil down to communication.” I’d take issue with the percentage, but think what he says is generally correct. Learning Spanish has made me a better communicator, especially at work. I believe learning Spanish affects how others perceive me, and frankly, associates and clients respond to me differently than they do other managers. Often, I’m the first beneficiary of new information at work because, for some reason or the other, associates feel comfortable sharing with me. For me, Spanish has been a great tool in the workplace.

Beyond that, It’s given me a wider perspective, and I care about, no, I appreciate more things. I’ve always had interest in politics, and policies … even if it seemed it didn’t directly affect me. Learning Spanish has drawn my attention a bit more to what is important to a Hispanic living in the US. Now, whatever I’m learning in the new is not just about some program affecting Hispanics, or some country in Latin America. It’s a program that Tania is deeply interested in and affected by, or Raul’s hometown ... we’re now talking about my friends, co-workers and exchange partners; people I’ve come to know.

Learning Spanish has put me in touch with a different way of thinking, and seeing the world. If the world is a house, Spanish has given me access to another room (socially, professionally and even romantically) that, for me, was before inaccessible.

Beyond that, it's a skill that's just cool to have, in my opinion. Nothing like being able to have a secret conversation. 8-)

So, moving forward, what do I really want from Spanish?

-1. Continue to learn from the people, and their culture. I’d like to continue fostering meaningful relationships, and use Spanish as another way to enjoy life … a practical hobby ... to enjoy the journey.

This means I need to be able to enjoy literature, and conversations on fairly substantial topics.

-2. To be able to communicate in a professional setting i.e. work, and educated native speakers. Perhaps use it to conduct business.

-3. Vacation in a Spanish speaking country, using only Spanish.

With all this, it looks like I’m aiming for a C1-C2 level of proficiency (thanks to the business part). Timeframe? Something tangible might increase my odds in January of 2019 when I should be shooting for another job, or taking steps towards a MBA. … a solid B2 by then would be nice. Using it professionally at a high level? Within 3-4 years?

Anyway, I messaged my tutor yesterday and we're going to see what level of the DELE I'd have a good chance of passing today, and what kind of shape I'm in to take the level above that. I know where I want to go - I just need a better idea of where I am. Before the session, I am going to write on prompt that she will send me for her to review. During the session, we'll run through the other parts of the exam - this will probably happen on the 28th.

I have not decided if I will return to writing this week. I will be doing plenty of reading and watching though. Hopefully, this will be the last time I waver on my method - I think I've thought about it enough. ;)
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the1whoknocks
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby the1whoknocks » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:08 pm

How will the next three years of my life be better than the last three thanks to Spanish? … Maybe I should back up a bit.

Three years ago to the day I decided to start learning Spanish. That decision has led to more rewarding experiences than I had the foresight to anticipate. It’s crazy how time flies - I swear time ticks along faster each year. It really doesn't feel like it's been that long.

… I woke up to a pretty rainy and grey morning. Thanks Hurricane Harvey. Naturally, Spanish has been on my mind. I’ve been reflecting on the journey so far, and the road ahead. It’s been good and I laugh that, a while back, I even considered, 'cutting my losses' and setting the language aside. My comprehension has been improving nicely and I'm reading, writing and watching more than I was last year. Of course, there’s room for improvement, but I’m heading in the right direction. Still, I must admit that my sometimes myopic view of learning Spanish has caused me a lot of grief this year. It’s led me to believe that I was not progressing, although I was … and help fuel unrealistic expectations. Most importantly, it sapped enjoyment from the process.

A paradigm shift was in order. I am learning a lot from this forum and from my unique experience. Finally, I’ve come to accept that it’s a long road ahead to advanced fluency. There are things I can do to aid the process, but the progress I seek will ultimately require time. The reality is that Spanish is a bit more than a hobby for me at this point. A very practical, gratifying and beneficial hobby, but a hobby nonetheless. It’s important but not urgent. Particularly now that I can ‘manage myself’ in the language as far as immediate needs go.

It’s clear to me now that the times that I’ve noticed the most improvement have been while exploring a genuine curiosity about something, be it: grammar, a person or a people, songs or whatever else. Passion drives success. That’s pretty obvious now that I think of it … and is likely true for most things.

Beyond that, there are habits I’ve developed that have formed a baseline of activity that keeps me progressing in Spanish without much effort on my part - they’re just things I do without usually thinking twice. They are the reason that, absent some special circumstance, I’ve interacted with Spanish in a meaningful way almost every day for the past three years. The motivation to keep up fancy activities wane, but habits and consistent interaction with Spanish keep me improving.

Considering my experience so far, the best thing I can do for my Spanish is build on these habits, and ensure that I am enjoying the process.

Habits I’ll be working on until the end of the year:

1. Read everyday – I like reading, period. I find it’s a good way to channel my thoughts, learn from others and be entertained. If I could get to a decent reading speed I’m sure it would be a great way to explore other cultures, connect with others and learn. Reading should bode well for improving my vocabulary also.

2. Write 500 words a week – eventual goal is to get to a point where I’m churning out 50,000-100,000 words a year with ease. Why? If I plan to rely on Spanish professionally, I think being able to write well will be an asset. Although, perhaps not strictly necessary since someone can be hired to help with that. Still, it may prove to be a useful skill in my case.

3. Spending some amount of time each day doing some focused learning activity – eventual goal is 30 minutes/day … spent doing whatever I feel like.

I should write soon about how progress with these has been sometime soon. But, if I can get to where I do thse without any real thought the results could be 'bigly'.*

The real goal here is not to be efficient, but consistent. There are times that motivation will spur me to spend increased time and effort to improve a certain skill. That’s great, and I’ll maximize those moments. However, having these habits as a working baseline means I’m improving regardless.

To borrow from an analogy Warren Buffett famously made: all I need is some wet snow and time. Habits will be my wet snow.

I have not said much about listening time but that’s only because it is already a regular part of my day. There is always room for improvement, but I don’t struggle to find time to watch a series, surf YouTube or to listen to podcasts and the radio (app). A long as the content is interesting, I’ll listen (or watch).

Thanks to work and people I know, I have occasional opportunities to speak but I would like to find more ways to use Spanish within my community. I’ve been working with some teens, but we try not to use Spanish since the whole purpose is that we work on their English.

Regarding the first question I asked: well, I’m still thinking about it. With that said, I’ll just be grateful for the experiences I’ve been afforded to far, and commit these last three years to the fun and good success of the next three.

*not a common word.
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James29
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby James29 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:37 am

Your last post is a great guide for the aspiring student of Spanish. Great attitude. You motivate me.

And, don't forget the really long hill to push the snow down. That's critical. Pushing downhill makes it easier and more enjoyable.
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BOLIO
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby BOLIO » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:44 pm

Your last two posts were excellent. As James said, you motivated me and some of the feelings you are having are The same ones I am going through. We started this journey of Spanish within a few months of each other and I understand everything you are saying and we have very similar goals.

Thanks again for the posts.

BOLIO
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the1whoknocks
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby the1whoknocks » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:16 pm

James29 wrote:Your last post is a great guide for the aspiring student of Spanish. Great attitude. You motivate me.

And, don't forget the really long hill to push the snow down. That's critical. Pushing downhill makes it easier and more enjoyable.


Thanks, James and great catch – The long hill is one of the most crucial parts of the analogy! I guess the fun activities could serve as that downhill push, right? Or, maybe that 'long hill' is something different for everyone.

It’s funny how sage wisdom can be conveyed through life’s 'simplest' occurrences. It's always cool seeing you weigh in.
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the1whoknocks
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby the1whoknocks » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:26 pm

BOLIO wrote:Your last two posts were excellent. As James said, you motivated me and some of the feelings you are having are The same ones I am going through. We started this journey of Spanish within a few months of each other and I understand everything you are saying and we have very similar goals.

Thanks again for the posts.

BOLIO


Hey, BOLIO, thanks for stopping by my log. I’ve seen you around on the forum for some time but it’s nice to finally ‘meet’ you.

Being able to look back at what I had going on language-wise, and reading of other’s experiences are just two of my favorite things about this forum. I don’t know about you, but I’ve found myself becoming increasingly comfortable with a taking a more relaxed approach to Spanish lately … or, at least more confident that I’ve been doing at least some of the right things.

I'm still trying to find what really works for me, but I 'gotta' say, it feels like I might finally be hitting my stride. Really, I just need some solid habits to build on.

I look forward to learning from each other as we move towards that elusive C1. Thanks again for stopping by, and for your comments.
Last edited by the1whoknocks on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby reineke » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 pm

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the1whoknocks
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby the1whoknocks » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:32 pm

reineke wrote:
x9Ztioh.jpg


:lol: Nice one
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the1whoknocks
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby the1whoknocks » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:22 am

It’s been a while since the last update, but I’ve still been going with Spanish. For the first time in Spanish, I read 300+ pages in 8 days. Actually, I re-read 300+ pages in 8 days. Not a big deal either way, but is a first for me in Spanish and feels great. The book was Latin Kings: mi vida sangirienta, and I plan to write more about it later. Other than that, I’m a year older, and now have a Spartan race under my belt … 6+ hours of ‘fun’ :? in West Virginia. I don't think I've ever been that sore!

Sometime last week I finished the last episode of Sobreviviendo a Escobar – Alias JJ. While I can say that it was not nearly as exciting to watch as I had hoped, especially the beginning, I’m glad I finished it. Surprisingly, I enjoyed watching El patron del mal more. Sobreviviendo a Escobar seemed to go through phases: episodes 1~12 were super violent, things calm for a bit, plot begins to gain some substance around episode 40, things slow a bit again just in time for an interesting conclusion to the series. My thoughts on this series are mixed, but more on this another day.

With this series, I’ve officially completed the amount of ‘listening’ I intended to do this year; 150 hours (9,000 minutes). Of course, novellas have formed only a part of my listening material but for tracking purposes, they are all I measure.

Thoughts, so far?

Listening to this much material has been helpful, I think. Even so, I need more exposure to get to where I want to go. And … I have really, really, really come to like narrow listening. If I like the topic, I learn the frequent vocabulary with what seems like no effort. The downside, for me, is that interest can wane.

I’ll have to think more on this but I consider the time spent watching this many series as time well spent. I see series, documentaries, YouTube videos and other Spanish language media forming a regular part of my ‘language routine’. I think this much watching has helped:

-1. Improve my feel for the language – I now am more confident identifying what sounds ‘right’ and ‘wrong’. After hearing this much Spanish bad grammar or something that is not ordinary seems more evident to me. Even if I can’t say the right thing, I have a better idea of what it sounds like.

-2. Cement the little things – prepositions, direct/in-direct pronouns, reflexive verbs, regional slang, etc. This year, I completed a book that focused solely on the Subjunctive. Still, I think hearing it used in context is what essentially helping me to understand and use it more accurately … Although, I still have a long way to go to fully understanding the subjunctive.

-3. Improve listening comprehension – This was an obvious, and perhaps most anticipated, possibility. I have not taken a test, but I have no doubt I’m better at deciphering different accents in Spanish than I was in January. Some series required more patience than others, but I could usually just continue to listen and eventually have everything make sense. In the worst of cases, it took about 10-15 episodes to become comfortable listening to a series; I’m thinking of a few characters from La niña.

If I could do it over again …

I would try to read more. Much more. Reading 300 pages in a week really gave me a glimpse of what a powerful took extensive reading can be. Telenovelas are fun, but incorporating listening materials that, ‘up the register’ might be helpful moving forward. The little bit of writing I have done this year has been beneficial too, but I don’t think it has been enough to really launch me forward. Finally, I'd relax more - progress, this time, came in ways I could not really have predicted. There are just things that straightened themselves out without much conscious effort on my my part - all I did was remain as attentive as possible. The rest took care of itself. I'd also tell myself not to expect miracles - TV has not done much for my active vocabulary, so far.

Speaking practice has been interesting too – Speaking is the only skill I have deliberately practiced less this year. During my first two years I’ve averaged about 200-250 hours of deliberate speaking practice each year. So far, this year I’ve had about 30 hours. I consider deliberate practice as me sitting down with the goal of somehow improving my spoken output, be it; accuracy, fluency or just expression on a topic of interest. Sometimes, this has been with a tutor, but often it’s with an exchange partner. I don’t consider time just speaking with friends or at work as focused speaking practice.

I’m actually OK with ‘slowing my roll’ with speaking – Based on what other’s experiences, I think l will be able to bring my spoken output up to speed pretty quickly if I just continue with regular conversations, and working on the other skills.

While I can understand Spanish better, improving vocabulary and making everything automatic will take time. Some of the little things have started sorting themselves out in my speech but listening alone, so far, has not been enough – that’s not surprising.


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‘Weekly Update’
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Otherwise, I’ve just been working on those habits.

Estocolmo seems very interesting. I have a few ideas of what I might to help with comprehension, but will see what desire leads me to do. I understand Epitaifos well, so maybe it’s just a matter of becoming more accustomed to the Argentinian accent. I might just start watching a bunch of Argentinian movies and series to help with comprehension.

I picked up a new book: La Fiesta del Chivo by Peruvian author Mario Vargas Llosa. I mentioned the book to an exchange partner who suggested that I watch the movie by the same name. As it turns out, the DR was once under a dictatorship and this movie recounts, briefly, the story of the person behind that dictatorship. The movie was interesting ... but cringe worthy at the end. I also want to watch El Teniente Amado; another film from the DR about the man who eventually sets out to escape the clutches of that dictaotship.

I’ve been writing about 500 words, and scheduling only one tutoring sessions each week. That’s not much, but so far I’ve managed to be consistent with that. All sessions from the package have been scheduled, which usually means it will be more trouble to reschedule a session than it would be to just have it. I have 7 weeks left with her. Our focus is on my writing, but last week we started incorporating deliberate speaking practice in preparation for the DELE exam.

We’re working on argumentative pieces again but this time focusing on how I would need to write for the DELE. Friday she sends me a C1 prompt > Saturday I write > Tuesday I review what I wrote for clarity and grammar mistakes, but often focusing on improving one aspect, i.e connectors, vocabulary, conciseness etc. > After asking a friend for feedback, I send to tutor > she corrects it before the session and we discuss corrections during class.

As for the speaking preparation, some of her questions were related to the subject I was writing on, but most were not. The more the session went on, the more I realized that, in a way, I’m being trained on structuring my responses and employing coping techniques.

She assured me that during the exam my goal is not to resolve the world’s problems, and that in most cases my actual position does not even matter. During the exam, my goal should be to demonstrate that I ‘know’ the language using appropriate vocabulary, accurate grammar and structured responses.

I spent a week switching from book to book and decided on, Nunca te Pares by Phil Knight. In English the book is called Shoedog. It’s an autobiography of the Nike founder & CEO and so far has been pretty interesting. I drink water as soon as I wake up, grab a book and read for at least 15 minutes. I can read more if I feel like it, but never less. That’s been my rule these past few weeks. When I get back into bed, I aim to read for another 15 minutes.

The interesting thing with this is that I’ve almost never read for only 15 minutes, I average 25 minutes per session, and my max has is about 1 hour and 20 minutes.

There are so many books I’d like to get through. Right now, I’m reading a book at 100 words per minute (WPM). That’s only a fraction of my English reading speed (when measured in college). I was a bit surprised at that statistic … but, with more reading it will probably improve, so I’m not going to sound the alarms yet.

Also started a strength training program on the 5th. I’ll keep an eye on this because now that I think about it, right when I started overtraining is when I started becoming frustrated with my progress in Spanish. A friend an I were trying to compare our routines and I realized I couldn't. In light of this, during my free time I spent a couple weeks just watching YouTube videos on the 5 major lifts; bench press, squat, deadlift, overhead (military) press and bent over row - that is all I needed. I really like narrow listening and the best part is it didn't cost me a thing as I would have watched those videos in English just to refresh my memory on how to perform them.
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Re: A(nother) Spanish Log - Transition from Intermediate to Advanced

Postby James29 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:21 pm

Estocolmo is great. It is super confusing. I have a friend from Chile who watched it and did not understand it. I wish there were more Argentinian shows and movies on Netflix. I like them.
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