IronMike's 2023 log: Fewer means better, right? (EO & RUS)

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IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
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Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:29 am

Just back from the orientation meeting. This Italian class may be really, really slow. In 15 weeks they only did two chapters of the textbook Sentieri - attraverso l’Italia contemporanea. There's no class in the summer, so I may work on the language myself during the summer so I can try and skip to Elementary II (as opposed to Beginner II) or maybe even Pre-Intermediate in September.

Excited for 28 January when the class starts.
2 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
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Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:40 am

And btw, still doing well on the 365-day challenge. Did 45 minutes of Esperanto on the 1st and 34 minutes today, along with 20 minutes of LR in my Russian book.
1 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:13 pm

365-day challenge: Week one report

01.01: 17 minutes Kern.Punkto (KP) episode 149 Sendependiĝo de Barato; 28 minutes 01.01 broadcast of Pola Retradio.
02.01: 34 minutes KP151 Krea komunaĵo; 20 minutes LR in Russian book Шанс для неудачников.
03.01: 18 minutes KP151; 25 minutes reading La Ondo de Esperanto (LOdE), #1:2019.
04.01: 24 minutes KP151; 20 minutes reading the January 2019 issue of Esperanto magazine.
05.01: 29 minutes of the latest Pola Retradio; 33 minutes KP143 Insekta konduto.
06.01: 12 minutes KP143; 20 minutes reading LOdE.
07.01: 30 minutes KP143.
0 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:52 pm

OMG! Is it really still three weeks away till my Italian class starts?! Ugh!

Can't stinking wait.

Esperanto is continuing. Ironically, the next Esperanto Sumoo starts this coming Sunday and the last day of the Sumoo is the Sunday right before my Italian class starts. Perfect timing. I think I'm going to read La Fundamenta Krestomatio, specifically the short story section. That way I can get some short stories read for the Short Story Challenge. w00t!
1 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:12 am

Esperanto Sumoo starts on Sunday. Looking forward to it. Fundamenta Krestomatio, here I come!

In other news, tomorrow is the last day for you dear reader(s) to enter my 1000th post free giveaway. Remember, even if you don't live in the U.S., you can enter as long as you're willing to pay the difference in shipping costs that I would pay to send to another U.S. address.

Oh, and so far doing well on the 365 Day Challenge. No missed days yet. w00t!
2 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Today starts the 55th Esperanto Sumoo. If you don't know what that is: For 15 days you commit to reading a certain number of daily pages in a particular book. You report to someone on the 5th, 10th and 15th day on your daily success or failure, and you're given a rank at the end of the Sumoo. You do not have to finish the book over the Sumoo, just read the daily pages you set out for yourself. I've been doing the Sumoo for a few years now and I can absolutely confirm that it has improved my reading speed as well as my vocabulary.

For this Sumoo, I'm reading the short story section of the Fundamenta Krestomatio.

Any of my dear readers taking part?
1 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:00 am

365-day challenge: Week two report

08.01: 30 minutes listening to an old episode of Pola Retradio.
09.01: 36 minutes listening to KP145 about extraterrestrial life.
10.01: 33 minutes listening to KP145. LR four pages of Шанс для неудачников
11.01: 32 minutes finishing KP145.
12.01: 12 minutes of Pola Retradio #818. 20 minutes of lyrics study of Eo music (Persone mostly).
13.01: 13 minutes PR #818. Read 5 pages of the Esperanto short story Nokto.
14.01: 4 minutes of PR #818 and 21 minutes of PR #817. 10 pages of Nokto and 3 pages of the next story.
1 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:59 pm

Some new words learned today while LR'ing Шанс для неудачников--

улаживание settling
жульничество scam (love this one!)
везение luck (duh!)
трюк trick
отрывать to tear off
окинуть to take a look
котлы boilers

When I get a moment, I'll add these to my Quizlet.
3 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby IronMike » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:44 pm

Over the few years I've been on this great forum, I've seen people declaring their proficiency levels, mostly based on the CEFR levels. I haven't scientifically mapped it, but seems that many, if not most, of those doing such are basing their declaration on what they've read about the CEFR levels.

I can understand extended speech even when it is not clearly structured and when relationships are only implied and not signalled explicitly. I can understand television programmes and films without too much effort...


...so obviously I'm a C1 in language X in the skill "listening."

But I really have to question that logic. Until you've actually taken a test for language proficiency, you don't really know, for sure, what your proficiency level is.

I've been taking language proficiency tests since 1986. Sometimes several per year. I'd estimate I've taken the DLPT over 30 times, in Russian, BCS, Slovenian, German and Czech. I've taken the OPI less often as it was only rarely required for my job, maybe 10 times in the last 32 years. The only non-DLPT I've taken is the KER Exam for Esperanto, and specifically I took the skriba C1 KER, which tests reading and writing only.

While I feel fairly confident I can guesstimate my language levels in languages I've studied, I can't unequivocally state that I'm a B2 in speaking Esperanto, no matter how I feel that's about where I am.

Until you've sat across from two or three native speakers of your hobby language, and gone through the headache that is the constant questioning, several changes of subject, back-and-forth almost-interrogation atmosphere, you don't really know what your language level is. Until you've gone through the headache-causing concentration needed to complete a 4-hour listening test where one stray thought could mean you've totally missed a passage and thus a question, where missing 4 out of 65 questions means the max you can get is 2+, then you don't really know what your language level is.

Call it harsh, but if you're declaring your language is level X-whatever on the CEFR scale and you haven't taken a legitimate test in that language yet, then you really aren't X-whatever. Even harsher: if you're chastising some other member of these forums for his or her language study plan, and part of your bonafides is that you're level X-whatever is Y-number of languages, and you've never taken a test in any of them, and you have the gall to say you've read the language level descriptions and that's why you're claiming such proficiency, then I say you're full of crap.

Sorry, that last was quite the long sentence, but I'm getting emotional here. Pardon me.
16 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
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Contact:

Re: So many eels, only one hovercraft. IronMike's 2019 log (EO, IT, RU)

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:31 am

IronMike wrote:Even harsher: if you're chastising some other member of these forums for his or her language study plan, and part of your bonafides is that you're level X-whatever is Y-number of languages, and you've never taken a test in any of them, and you have the gall to say you've read the language level descriptions and that's why you're claiming such proficiency, then I say you're full of crap.


Agreed.

From my point of view, if you are trying to justify your position solely because of some sort of "I know better because I'm x level" this is an appeal to accomplishment / authority whether or not you've taken the test. An argument needs to have feet to stand on, also independently of who is speaking.

Imagine Iguanamon saying "I don't have goals! That works for me." It would be pretty crap for anyone, independent of the degrees and certificates, if they say. "You're wrong because I have goals and that is right because I say so. You must have goals!!" That's no [valid] argument. And then using that as their primary argument for pages.

People have their own learning path, it doesn't have to be optimal.
8 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar


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