Radioclare's 2017 log (Croatian/Russian)

[NIKOLIĆ]

Awww thanks!
Can it be dragim prijateljima in the beginning?

Bravo, that's it. You cracked it! I can see it clearly now.

[Radioclare]

The more original, traditional music it is, it's less influenced by western harmonies and tones, and often sounds really weird. That's why I have first posted two traditions which are best sounding to ears accustomed to modern music. This is also quite ancient, it doesn't use the western music scale (BTW how much do you understand the talk?)

This one is a lot easier to listen to The first time I listened, I could hardly understand a word of what was being said. The second time I understood more, but his accent sounds really unusual to me. For example when he says that the instruments are "od njegovoga oca", the syllables which he is stressing sound really weird, as if the stress is on the "a" of "oca". Where is he from?

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I'm in Portugal at the moment and have had plenty of time to read. This morning I finished a German novel called "Die Falle" by Melanie Raabe. It's a really exciting thriller about a reclusive author who found her sister murdered... and saw the murderer fleeing the scene... over 10 years ago. Then one day she sees the face of the murderer again... on the television, where he appears to be a famous journalist. The novel is about how she tries to set a trap for him to get him to confess to the murder. But as the story progresses, it becomes increasingly unclear whether he is the murderer or not or whether the trauma of what she saw back then has sent the narrator slightly crazy. Could she even be the murderer herself? It's exciting and full of suspense right up to the final chapters

As for Portugal, it's amazingly beautiful but also amazingly hilly. I literally don't know when I've last spent so much time walking uphill without actually intending to climb a mountain or something. In a lot of hilly countries, people find flat bits of ground and build cities on them. In Portugal they seem to have done the opposite and built all their cities on slopes

As for language, Portuguese is totally impenetrable to me. It makes me feel like maybe Russian isn't so difficult after all. I don't think Romance languages are for me

[Robierre]

Where is he from?

Istria

[Daniel N.]

This one is a lot easier to listen to The first time I listened, I could hardly understand a word of what was being said. The second time I understood more, but his accent sounds really unusual to me. For example when he says that the instruments are "od njegovoga oca", the syllables which he is stressing sound really weird, as if the stress is on the "a" of "oca". Where is he from?

This is a Čakavian dialect. Most such dialects have stress on the last syllable in words like moja, otac, voda, žena, and many others. This is essentially the same place of stress as in Russian, so it's likely a very archaic feature. There are also Kajkavian dialects with the same feature, but also dialects scattered everywhere with the same feature.

They are from somewhere in Istria, but if they were from Krk or Pag, you would hear something very similar, and more to the south (Hvar etc) it would be also similar.

My dialect can have stress on any syllable, but it's never on the very last sound, i.e. not on a in žena.

[Serpent]

I watched an episode of 'Budva' this evening as well. Somehow with being on holiday I had let it go nearly a month since I last watched an episode and I was racking my
brains without success this afternoon to try and remember what had been happening in
the last episode I had seen. I was quite shocked when I started watching today's
episode to be reminded that the previous episode had ended partway through a murder
attempt on a key character. I'm not quite sure how I forgot that and managed to go so
long without finding out what happened... It was an exciting episode anyway, which
also featured one of my least favourite characters returning to Budva and one of my
favourite characters pulling a gun. I think after watching this series I may be too
scared ever to go to Montenegro again

Aww really, do you dislike Nadja that much? My least favourite ones are Nikita the policeman (perhaps because visually he's almost my type but argh so sleazy), Lunjo, in the beginning I didn't like Natasha but this season is better... Jovo is the opposite, I didn't mind him before but now he's annoying

I agree about Joko, he's cool!!! I had seen this post before and I sure hadn't expected it to be in such a context. Frustrating how he's hiding perfectly normal things and making his family worried though.

I watched another episode of Budva last night and had a moment of cultural confusion when one of the characters started a new job, and his wife threw a glass of water in his face. As far as I could gather, this was supposed to bring him good luck but it seemed a bit harsh to me as it meant he had to turn up one his first day with a wet suit!

Having looked it up this morning, apparently spilling a glass of water behind someone who's going on a journey, starting a new job, taking an exam etc is supposed to bring good luck. So I think what happened in 'Budva' is that the wife was intending to spill the water behind the husband, but actually he turned around at the last minute because he'd forgotten something and it ended up in his face

Haha thanks for clarifying, I didn't bother to look that up. Now that you mentioned it, I watched the scene again and she actually used drinking water for that (from the jug rather than the tap). She tried to hide the glass but Luka noticed, and she admitted she was going to spill it behind him

Also, I've generally liked Mila so far but it's kinda creepy when she smiles so easily as she tries to cheer up Bojana when Savo is in hospital. Not sure if that's just bad acting or a sign of her fakeness..

[Radioclare]

This is a Čakavian dialect. Most such dialects have stress on the last syllable in words like moja, otac, voda, žena, and many others. This is essentially the same place of stress as in Russian, so it's likely a very archaic feature. There are also Kajkavian dialects with the same feature, but also dialects scattered everywhere with the same feature.

They are from somewhere in Istria, but if they were from Krk or Pag, you would hear something very similar, and more to the south (Hvar etc) it would be also similar.

My dialect can have stress on any syllable, but it's never on the very last sound, i.e. not on a in žena.

That's really interesting - I don't think I've ever heard anyone stressing the final syllable before. I'm watching a series set in Dubrovnik at the moment and when I finish it I was thinking of watching something set in Slavonia to learn what the accent is like there, but now you are making me want to choose something set in Istria

Aww really, do you dislike Nadja that much? My least favourite ones are Nikita the policeman (perhaps because visually he's almost my type but argh so sleazy), Lunjo, in the beginning I didn't like Natasha but this season is better... Jovo is the opposite, I didn't mind him before but now he's annoying

It's slightly surreal to see quotes of things I wrote years ago and have no recollection of now But yes, I couldn't stand Nadja; I found her too loud and overpowering and I thought Savo was better off without her.

Also, I've generally liked Mila so far but it's kinda creepy when she smiles so easily as she tries to cheer up Bojana when Savo is in hospital. Not sure if that's just bad acting or a sign of her fakeness..

I think it's the latter I do remember thinking there was some bad acting in Budva, but the woman who plays Mila seems to be quite a famous and successful actress

[Radioclare]

One of the great things about travelling is that there's so much time for reading

I've finished another German novel - 'Das Joshua Profil' by Sebastian Fitzek. The plot is so intricate that I can't really begin to explain what the book is about, but the main character is a guy whose life is falling apart as a series of increasingly bizarre and twisted things start happening to him. He is pursued by a bunch of mysterious and shady criminals, who seem to know what he is going to do next before he's even decided it himself. It's an extremely exciting and clever plot and I would recommend it unreservedly except that it does deal with the theme of child abuse, including one of the main characters being a convicted paedophile, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is going to be upset by that.

Since then I've also read a Croatian translation of a Maigret novel: 'Pietr Letonac'. To be honest I'm not really a Maigret fan, so I didn't enjoy it that much, but it was less than 200 pages so didn't take too long. I've now moved onto another translation into Croatian: 'Farma' by Tom Rob Smith.

Travelwise, I'm very much enjoying Portugal. Porto was beautiful and I would go back there in a flash. I've also been to Coimbra, which may be the hilliest town I've ever been to, but is a very interesting town and there are some cool places in the surrounding area for day trips. There are some Roman remains not far away which I would probably have been completely blown away by if I hadn't been to the ruins of Heraclea (in Bitola, Macedonia) which are the gold standard against which I judge all other Roman ruins And there's a beautiful forest at a place called Buçaco, which it's just about possible to get to by train if you don't mind a bit of walking. On the way to Buçaco yesterday we had lunch in a town called Luso, which has the lowest prices I have ever seen in western Europe. It was €1.20 for a glass of wine and €0.70 for a coffee. To be honest, those prices are cheaper than some of the tourist prices in Croatia and Montenegro too. Portugal is definitely an easy place to travel on a budget

Now I'm in Lisbon and to be honest it feels quite flat. I think I must be getting accustomed to perpetually walking uphill Although I nearly expired trying to carry my suitcase up to the fifth floor apartment I accidentally booked (well, I would have expired if my boyfriend hadn't carried it most of the way for me!). We'd only been here a couple of hours when we got offered hash in the street so at the moment Lisbon reminds me a bit of Toulouse; pretty, but you need to keep an eye on who's behind you.

As for Portuguese, is the most popular sound in the whole language š? That's almost all I can hear when people talk

[Daniel N.]

That's really interesting - I don't think I've ever heard anyone stressing the final syllable before. I'm watching a series set in Dubrovnik at the moment and when I finish it I was thinking of watching something set in Slavonia to learn what the accent is like there, but now you are making me want to choose something set in Istria

In most series, the dialect is watered down. It's almost impossible you'll hear anything too dialectal in anything set in Slavonia, as such dialects are restricted to only few small villages there today. The stress is a so complex topic in South Slavic that a Croatian linguist (the link is on the image) wrote a 1000-page book on the topic, and that is just the first part



In this map (I took it from the book I've mentioned), yellow areas have the final stress in words like žena and trava.

Otherwise, the stress on the final closed syllable (e.g. papir) is very common in western parts of Croatia, including the whole northwest and west, and on the islands.

[Serpent]

As for Portuguese, is the most popular sound in the whole language š? That's almost all I can hear when people talk

Haha sort of. It's the indicator of plural (well, it's written like -s and it can be pronounced in different ways), and some Latin combinations like pl, fl, cl have also turned into this sound (cheio (plena), chama (flamo), chamar (latin clamare)).

speaking of Esperanto...

Serpent shouldn't read the rest of the post because there are going to be more Budva spoilers.

OMG, where to start. Well, I was watching an episode of 'Budva' last night and I nearly fell off my seat because it sounded like one of the characters had used the word "Esperantist". I was convinced I had misheard, so I rewound and replayed the scene. I probably listened to it 20 times in the end to make sure I was fully understanding everything, and it turned out that I was actually correct first time; the character had said that his late uncle had been one of the country's greatest Esperantists.

The character he was speaking to said "What's that got to do anything?" which I thought was quite a surprising response, because generally I would have thought that if you told someone your late uncle was an Esperantist, their response would be "What's an Esperantist?". Especially if you are a character in a TV series whose viewers might not know what Esperanto is and might benefit from an explanation.

Even more strangely, Esperanto turned out to have a major role in the plot. I can't remember how much I have explained about Budva before, but it's basically a soap opera about a controversial business man called Savo. He made his money in probably less than ethical ways during the break-up of Yugoslavia and is now a millionaire, investing vast quantities of money in ugly building projects in Budva, often with complete disregard for any building regulations. He's actually a very likeable character though, and as the series progresses you get to see his softer side and feel sympathy for him when various professional rivals and drug barons try to ruin his business and/or assassinate him.

The main plot of the third series has been about a mysterious lady called Mila Kovač who appeared out of the blue and has been slowly insinuating her way into his life. She caught him at a low point when his wife, who had previously played a major role managing his business, had just left him. As the series goes on, she becomes his managing director and now she's on the verge of becoming his wife. She's an ambiguous character, at some points seeming like she feels real affection for him and at other times holding a gun to his head while he sleeps. No one knows who she is or where she has come from, but every so often the viewer gets to see short scenes where she sneaks back to her family home in disguise to see her father, who seems to be extremely ill (almost in a coma) and her brother, who seems to be a bit of a psycho. It seems that she has deliberately tried to manipulate her way into Savo's life with the intention of ruining him financially and/or murdering him, in order to avenge something unspecified which happened to her father and presumably ruined his life/resulted in his present illness. It's not clear what or why, which is why I thought that scene nikolic transcribed for me the other might be critical.

Anyway, upon finding out about his impending marriage, Savo's daughter Bojana decides she wants to investigate Mila's past, and conveniently has an old flame who happens to be a journalist and is willing to help her out. He is the guy whose uncle was an Esperantist, and coincidentally another character who has a grudge against Mila has given him a mysterious string of random names which he says will help him. The journalists excellent knowledge of Esperanto enables him to reveal to Bojana that she has also been using the name "Kara Forgisto" which is a direct Esperanto translation of "Mila Kovač". He believes this knowledge will help him work out her true identity, hopefully in time to stop Savo marrying her

All in all very exciting and I have to say I was relieved that the plot didn't turn out to be that she was a crazed Esperantist trying to destroy capitalism or something like that

I finally got there Yeah given that Bojana thought they speak Belgian in Belgium, it's a bit surprising if she knows what Esperanto is. I don't know if it's genuinely better-known in Eastern Europe...

[Radioclare]

In most series, the dialect is watered down. It's almost impossible you'll hear anything too dialectal in anything set in Slavonia, as such dialects are restricted to only few small villages there today. The stress is a so complex topic in South Slavic that a Croatian linguist (the link is on the image) wrote a 1000-page book on the topic, and that is just the first part

But as a foreigner, it's actually a brilliant thing that the dialect is watered down, otherwise I wouldn't be able to understand anything at all I think watching TV series is helpful for this because it gives me a 'flavour' of what the differences are in how people speak in a particular region, whether that's slightly different words they use or a different pronunciation, so I can learn something but on the other hand I can still understand the dialogue reasonably well For example, one of the key actors in 'Larin izbor' was Ivan Herceg, who is obviously not from Split, and I have read a few articles by people from Split saying how dreadful his attempt at the accent was. But it didn't matter to me, because from his character I was still able to learn things like how people say 'sritan' instead of 'sretan' and learn new words like 'marenda' which would never be in any of my textbooks.

At the moment I am watching a series set in Dubrovnik and I have read even worse controversy about the accents of the main actors in that, with people variously accusing them of sounding as if they come from Bosnia or Montenegro, but definitely not from Dubrovnik. I am not too concerned though, because ultimately I am not watching it to learn how to imitate a Dubrovnik accent but just to hear people talking in a different way. And I have already learned some new words, like 'dundo'.

In this map (I took it from the book I've mentioned), yellow areas have the final stress in words like žena and trava.

The map is incredible Stress is so complicated that it's enough to put anyone off trying to learn the language. The only positive is that next time I stress a word incorrectly, I will be able to console myself that perhaps it was actually correct in someone's dialect

I finally got there Yeah given that Bojana thought they speak Belgian in Belgium, it's a bit surprising if she knows what Esperanto is. I don't know if it's genuinely better-known in Eastern Europe...

I don't think so. At least, not in Montenegro. I don't think I've ever met an Esperanto speaker from Montenegro, so I do wonder how many people watching Budva knew what they were talking about

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In other news, I have finished reading 'Farma' by Tom Rob Smith, and it was a really exciting book. It's sort of a psychological thriller, about a guy whose parents retire to a remote farm in Sweden, which is supposed to be their dream, but it all goes wrong when his mother apparently starts to lose her mind and starts making accusations against people in their new community. Is she genuinely unwell as everyone says? Or are there really secret crimes being committed in this idyllic part of Sweden? It's an exciting thriller right up to the end Though, slightly unnervingly, my reading of it coincided with a series of conversations with my other half about whether we might be able to move abroad, probably also to somewhere quite remote, within the next six years. In theory I would love to do that, but the book did make me think twice

Now I'm reading in English: 'Belgrade: A Cultural and Literary History'. I'm only partway through it at the moment but I've learned lots, and it makes me want to go back to Belgrade