the Diaries of a Caffeinated Squirrel

[Brun Ugle]

I agree with you about German, especially problem 1. Gender, case and preposition all at once is just too much to keep track of. But once you get over the hurdles at the beginning, German quickly "runs out" of grammar. So it will get easier eventually. I'm still struggling with basic grammar myself. Even though I can read and watch TV, I feel like I can barely put a sentence together.

[Cavesa]

Found your log and subscribing for the year. I can be your cheer leader for German. "You can do it! You can do it!" :: shaking my pompoms::

(Are cheerleaders exclusively an American thing?)

There's no denying you've got a lot on your plate but you seem very capable of handling it. It's always good to be able to see what is slowing you down (like internet threads) and be willing to restrict it as much as necessary. (Hence why I am not on Facebook anymore)

Best of luck with this new year!

Than welcome to my log, Ani! It's great to have you here you might be interested to know this log is a part of a network, and sometimes the discussions skips from log to log quite freely, so Mephisto's (=Elenia's) and Easily Distracted Tortoise's (=Brun Ugle's) logs are the usual places to look, when something looks like there was a lot of context torn away

Cheerleading looks exactly like what I need, thanks!

They are not exclusively american, you have exported the idea quite well. It just isn't that popular and, unlike for example the american football with which the cheerleaders are connected, it is still felt like a foreign element, at least in the Czech Rep., no idea about the rest of Europe.

Btw how is it possible that I look capable of handling it all? I certainly don't feel that way

I agree with you about German, especially problem 1. Gender, case and preposition all at once is just too much to keep track of. But once you get over the hurdles at the beginning, German quickly "runs out" of grammar. So it will get easier eventually. I'm still struggling with basic grammar myself. Even though I can read and watch TV, I feel like I can barely put a sentence together.

Yes! Thank you! There is a light at the end of the tunnel! Now I just need to crawl through without being eaten by something in the darkness. At which point do you think it "runs out of grammar"? I love the term btw.

[gsbod]

I think the learning curve for German is a bit different to Romance languages. The case system introduces more ways for a beginner to screw up, but as Brun Ugle says, it does get easier. I think this is due to the verb system being much simpler. Once you've got the hang of the two past tenses, it's fairly straightforward to get to grips with the remaining verb forms.

At least with prepositions and case, the behaviour is predictable. Make sure you have memorised which prepositions always take Akkusativ and which ones always take Dativ (not sure if you've met ones taking Genitiv yet). To complicate matters there are the 8 prepositions which can take either Akkusativ or Dativ depending on whether you are talking about direction or location. If it helps, I understand the rules but still screw up when speaking!

[Cavesa]

I am using a memrise course to finally remember which preposition comes with which case. The residues of my Latin learning past are helpful, when it comes to the prepositions with either Akkusativ or Dativ.

Thanks for the optimism. I think the first romance language is like German too, at least for a Czech native, a lot to get used to at the beginning, which drives people away. But once you break through the wall, it is all just a recombination of already known pieces. In French, I think many courses and teachers make the mistake of trying to artificially make it seem like there is less to learn for the beginner, they avoid the grammar, making it seem as if the language was completely illogical and irregular, and its acquisition possible only with memorisation. That is a problem. While a German course comes with the attitude: "hey, this is hard, so here it is, learn it", the French courses and teachers prolong the suffering and people spend several semesters on the fragments of the basics without being able to speak, while most of the basics become completely clear only after seeing them in the bigger picture. I don't know whether I expressed myself well, sorry.

My experience with French has lead me to not avoiding the hard parts. I need to learn them anyways, so I'd like to simply get through that. But the perfectionism and stress of making too many mistakes (which Soclydeza has actually described recently, while talking about her (or his?) struggles with the FSI German), that's what kept me redoing and redoing the basics and the completed lessons.

Let's see how it goes this time.

[Brun Ugle]

Well, I don't know that it runs out of grammar exactly, but as gsbod said, there aren't many verb forms. Actually, I'd rather have lots of verb forms like Spanish or lots of cases like Finnish than the crazy mess that is German grammar. The problem for me is that they keep reusing the few articles they have, so something like "der dame" sounds right because technically it is right -- it's just feminine dative rather than masculine nominative. And that means it takes longer than you'd expect to learn what sounds right. If they'd used a new article each time, it wouldn't be so hard.

I'm going to have a look at that Memrise course. I need to find a way to drill the basics into my head. It's one thing being able to understand the language, but I'd also like to be able to speak and write.

[Cavesa]

I don't expect it to run out of grammar totally, just to have a point after which it won't be such a steep climb

I've just finished Lektion 8. Ufff. It wasn't easy. There is progress, but I still have lots of mistakes to make, in order to stuff all the grammar in my brain.

Thanks for all the support! You are awesome!

[rdearman]

Swahili
Russian
Finnish
Dutch
Mandarin
Greek
Japanese
Mongolian
Hebrew
Arabic
Cantonese
Swedish
Haitian Creole
Ancient Greek
Toki Pona
Welsh
Romanian
Italian
Slovak

A WANDERLUST DRIVEBY !!! MWAHAAAHAHAHA!

[Systematiker]

You'll get the grammar down. Especially if you have some of that Latin you mentioned. As mentioned, the lists of prepositions that take a case will help as well. You can do it!

And, then, of course, you'll learn all the verb tenses and declinations, and then use like 2, plus the conditional, and use the dative for the genitive...

[Cavesa]

:twisted: Swahili
Russian
Finnish
Dutch
Mandarin
Greek
Japanese
Mongolian
Hebrew
Arabic
Cantonese
Swedish
Haitian Creole
Ancient Greek
Toki Pona
Welsh
Romanian
Italian
Slovak

A WANDERLUST DRIVEBY !!! MWAHAAAHAHAHA!

You're evil!!!!


Fortunately, I am quite immune now.
Or at least I hope so. I got myself a new pen, which writes so nicely it makes me question my potential to become a doctor. And it is so tempting to learn a new script with it. If only I didn't have more than enough on my plate already.

Lektion 9 is waiting. After dinner.

P.S. You forgot to include Polish

[Cavesa]

You'll get the grammar down. Especially if you have some of that Latin you mentioned. As mentioned, the lists of prepositions that take a case will help as well. You can do it!

And, then, of course, you'll learn all the verb tenses and declinations, and then use like 2, plus the conditional, and use the dative for the genitive...

Thank you! This helped!

Yes, the verb system is a bit weird at first sight. For example, Ive looked in my coursebooks to see what is the plan. And there are often things II being mentioned before the same thing II. Partizip, Koniunktiv, something else perhaps? Well, I'll finish TA1 and see.

I am still unsure whether to take first one of my next coursebooks and the other afterwards (and which one will be the first), or to do them at once. The first approach is clearly a bit faster, while the second gives me much more practice. Sure, the courses are organized differently, but that shouldn't matter so much