Hedgehogs: Creatures of the Night (ES)

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coldrainwater
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Plan for reaching B1 Listening (from A2)

Postby coldrainwater » Sun May 14, 2017 10:39 pm

tldr: I think I am going to add extensive reading and Spanish vbulletin foro reading to help my listening grammar.

The too long part

I achieved my goal this weekend of making it to the midpoint of Yabla's intermediate video section. That amounts to just over 700 super short (> 1 minute < 5 minutes) video clips in total (counting the beginner material). My multimodal learning approach (Yabla, podcasts, telenovelas(minimally but they are in the routine), RTVE, Veintemundos, Música and formerly NHK news/Newsinslowspanish) is yielding progress and will need small adjustments to keep it moving in the same direction. Here is how I am feeling. I am at a decent A2 listening right now, I'd say. I have cleared enough fog that I can see where some weak points are and I am ready to make a plan to address them. In terms of my weakest point:

Grammar + Listening. If I had to pick one area, I'd say that my listening grammar is probably the biggest piece that is currently holding me back from reaching an overall level B1. Not just grammar but listening grammar. Vocabulary is in a good spot. I am also happy with my overall comprehension in the sense that, at A2, if you give me a clear, well-enunciated podcast over a topic that may be unfamiliar, I can generally get most of the vocabulary and can follow what they are talking about (at least if they are speaking Castillian/Peninsular Spanish). Now how to tackle this (what I have tried, what I am thinking, and even worse, what I may do)? It is probably easiest if I organize this entry by commenting on the different listening areas and through those notes, my thought patterns and the big picture hopefully will be clear enough.

Yabla: I made a push here and garnered success. As expected a couple of things happened. I have built a habit in the sense that I log in to Yabla and start doing it without thinking and the automaticity is nice. However, the material itself is getting a bit boring at intermediate. My plan is to jump to advanced and boost the challenge factor. Whether I do that now or break from Yabla for a couple of weeks is an open question. I generally want to keep going with it b/c it directly addresses my primary problem of listening grammar. The however is that I am not likely to tolerate more than an hour daily and will need break time.

Podcasts: This habit is great and tags right along with my workouts. So long as I keep Nómadas loaded up from RTVE, I should be good. If anything, the only change to make here is to keep my productivity buds and smartphone in pocket at all times so that it is convenient for me to switch it on from time to time. Trying to pick out grammar this way is probably not the smartest thing in the world. Instead, I focus on mindfully listening and making sure I am following the words (and with it now seems to come meaning pretty well). What this does is prevent my existing overall listening comprehension for podcasts from deteriorating and will likely add slow steady progress. Even as I write this post I have been switching the podcast on and off as I need to think. I am adding some useful listening time this way even so though I am typing English letters.

Telenovelas: When I busted RTVE open last weekish and eliminated geo issues, I stopped listening to my planned telenovelas. Telenovelas, on the one hand, may be one of the absolute best sources to bring my listening skills up. However, they deplete willpower (ego-depletion) like nothing else. If anything, they require substantial emotional control and habit building skills in order to tolerate making it through something with that much drama. It may hurt, but the smart decision here may be to avoid watching them and save the will power for podcasts (which is much less costly). More importantly, I am getting telenovela experience directly from Yabla and think doubling up on that is too much from a stomach churning standpoint.

RTVE/Youtube: I smudge these two together because I think I may switch between them based on what I find interesting. I suspect Youtube will fully replace Yabla as soon as I decide it should. Similarly, RTVE is an absolute video goldmine and I am happy to say that I think I can temporarily set it beside Youtube for learning purposes. When I want a true multimodal approach to listening learning, these two sources are my very best.

Cartoons: These are great to directly address my listening grammar problems. The downside is that I tend to want to watch at most about ten minutes or so daily and I don't want to do it every day. The upside is that they don't make me want to puke and raise anxiety like the telenovelas do so they are open. I'll have to think on this for a bit and see how I can incorporate them usefully. The downside is that there are many parts of the cartoons that simply aren't challenging enough (for my long term goals and even for my current challenge desires) and if I replace too much of my listening with cartoons, I see my interest and the content depth dropping too much. My thoughts here are open to change.

Extensive Reading: This feels like the smartest long-term manner to boost grammar (combined with direct grammar study of course). To that end, and taking into account my forays into each of the other aforementioned areas (cartoons, youtube, etc), I think the reading really offers a level of promise that other areas just can't touch. There is almost no will power cost for me when I read in Spanish. I could do it all day long I think simply by taking nature breaks as needed and making sure I alternate what I read. For a long time, I have had to intentionally prevent myself from reading Spanish so that I could bring up my listening skills sufficiently. I may be objectively at a point where I should now read.

Direct Grammar Study: I am still enjoying reading B&B and it is working well to get an overview of Spanish grammar in small daily chunks. I think having patience with this area and taking it slow is all kinds of right. I am enjoying the heck out of my current grammar readings so, plus one for that.

Foros: As another method of reading, I have a strong intuitive hunch that I should be investing forum time in high-brow Spanish forums with good learning opportunity through direct reading. I feel strongly enough about this to actually make it a part of my routine. The cool part about that is that many messages are pretty much conversation in writing. To really pick up the kind of grammar that I really need for listening grammar, foros vbulletino (so to coin) look like a great fit.
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coldrainwater
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Surprise factor

Postby coldrainwater » Tue May 16, 2017 3:15 am

Funny part is that I can see something like this happening in Texas even now. Good motivation so I thought I would share. Quoted from Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy (with respect to the famous character the judge)

Incidentally, I may query the frequency of escupió. Seems to come up about once a page.

He speaks dutch, said the expriest. Dutch? Aye...He does for I heard him do it. We cut a parcel of crazy pilgrims down off the Llano and the old man in the lead of them he spoke right up in dutch like we were all of us in dutchland and the judge give him right back. Glanton come near fallin off his horse. We none of us knew him to speak it. Asked where he'd learned it you know what he said? What did he say. Said off a dutchman. The expriest spat. I couldnt of learned it off ten dutchmen.

Professionally translated (Luis Murillo Fort) as:

Habla holandés, dijo el ex cura. ¿Holandés? Sí...Lo habla porque yo le he oído. Cerca del Llano nos tapamos con un grupo de peregrinos locos y el viejo que iba en cabeza se puso a hablar en holandés como si estuviéramos todos en su país y el juez le respondió en el mismo idioma. Glanton por poco se cae del caballo. Ninguno sabíamos que hablaba holandés. ¿Sabes lo que dijo cuando le pregunataron que dónde lo había aprendido? ¿Qué dijo? Que de un holandés. El ex cura escupió. Yo, ni con diez holandes habría podido aprenderlo.
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coldrainwater
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Postby coldrainwater » Wed May 17, 2017 2:57 am

I switched over to the advanced section of Yabla and went through a full page of their videos (normally about 20). It was a much better fit for listening practice as I found most of the videos to be difficult and the speed was often too fast for my current listening ability. That is definitely right where my practice needs to be.

It is saying something to note that the toughest material they can find more or less amounts to soap operas or highly dramatic TV shows. It is pity they are not to my fancy. I suppose it is a fair trade though. It would be much worse if I didn't enjoy reading in Spanish for example. Imagine having to read 100's of books, many of which you had no interest in outside of language learning to reach a more advanced level. I can't say I mind the hand I have been dealt (loving reading and not so much the soaps). I would rather face 1000 hours of listening at an advanced level that I don't like than as many reading hours of the same ilk. The trick to making this work, so I think, is to build a habit around it. Automatic habits tend to level emotions to neutral, and thusly....onward.

Edit: found a telenovela on Telemundo that doesn't seem to play commercials (quiet now, they probably forgot to turn them on...).
Last edited by coldrainwater on Wed May 17, 2017 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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coldrainwater
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Evening and the benefits of uninterrupted time

Postby coldrainwater » Wed May 17, 2017 6:23 am

What I noticed over the last few nights is that it is sometimes tough to context switch between reading and listening. It seems like many times it may work better to devote the evening in its entirety to one discipline or the other. Tonight, I listened and spent several hours doing so intensively. Last night, I did the same reading. They are much like two separate worlds for me. All well and good. I might not have even made a post about this if I had been talking about output (speaking for example) vs input. Those are different worlds. Yet I figured on being able to context switch with more ease between reading and listening. Not quite. Not even close actually.

I wasn't sure if this tendency would surface with language learning, but here it has. To be clear, many people express binges and so I can as well. What I am referring to here is not really a binge but rather more deliberate and premeditated. I knew or sensed intuitively that it would be tough to context switch after 90 minutes of Yabla listening to any form of reading. It just didn't feel right. So I drifted directly to Telemundo to hit more conversation-style listening practice via telenovelas and this afforded a couple of additional practice hours.

When I want to program or learn any subject that I may consider tough (hard focus if you will), I find it best to set aside a large number of contiguous uninterrupted hours. This is important for mindful practice. It is also very relaxing which might come as a surprise. Also, in the world of programming, those longer blocks of uninterrupted time allow programmers to fill their minds with the context of the problem that they are solving. Within that space, many good things can happen. Often nothing at all happens without it. I wouldn't even have time to wrap my mind around an issue, let alone solve it if I were given short choppy blocks of time with interruption common. I suspect many programmers will understand the feeling easily enough.

Some people fall upon these longer blocks of time due to their schedule or perhaps they never have such blocks for the same reason. This gives me even greater assurance of why it often takes years to reach an advanced level in a language. Each discipline, interrelated as they are, often needs to be trained and given its own special attention. Slight the attention that it deserves and you slight your results too.
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coldrainwater
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Postby coldrainwater » Thu May 18, 2017 4:11 am

Tonight. Reading Blood Meridian. Enjoying a vista of the old west in vivid still. I would see the sun rise on the morrow long before I would tire of McCarthy.
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Postby coldrainwater » Fri May 19, 2017 3:58 am

Today was all about listening. I slowed down substantially and worked completely with native content making sure that I could understand the transcript as well as what I was hearing. Studying colloquial speech and the related grammar reminds me of studying and practicing chess tactics. There is a high coincidence with recognizing how patterns of known words are mixed and mingled in every imaginable way. Just as with tactics training, the variety of it all seems to help me prepare for the unexpected that is real life listening in a 20+ world language like ES.

I worked directly with material from three telenovelas - Yago, Muñeca Brava and La Querida del Centauro. It dawned on me that I should worry a bit about choosing resources from such different dialects (I use substantial material directly from Spain also). Slang from Argentina may not help me considerably with understanding Mexican slang, nor with understanding peninsular slang. I made my choices due to the fact that I have reliable and good transcripts for them with less regard to their dialect of origin. It might bother me just a bit, but my overall strategy necessitates some prioritization.
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Grammar

Postby coldrainwater » Sun May 21, 2017 5:11 am

It has been more than 20 years since I last engaged in substantial and direct ES grammar output exercises. Welcome back, I suppose.

I procrastinated substantially today and focused on grammar studies when I needed a break from procrastination. I tried listening to Spanish music while practicing written grammar output exercises and it was a total disaster. When I switched the music off or switched it back to German (with lyrics that were not comprehensible), I fell back in step and made mistakes because I actually didn't know the material I was studying (as opposed to making errors due to music distraction). My current strategy for Spanish grammar output practice is to use the Practice Makes Perfect series. I bought all the books in physical form some time ago but have not used them considerably. In light of my poor grammar skills, they are currently very useful. I am toting them around in an old travel bag and I worked with three of them today (intermediate grammar, prepositions, and irregular verbs as it were). In total, I cleared four chapters. I am making enough mistakes to keep this practice in my rotation. To speed progress, I tear out the answers from the back of the book and check my work immediately after writing (or thinking if I have really high confidence that I am completely correct). If I make an error, I write the answer (as a penalty if you will). I find it too slow to flip back and forth between the writing section and the answer section. Incidentally, I find Kindle practice with the Practice Makes Perfect to be cumbersome due to the same toggling problem and for that reason, I have a powerful preference for the paperback version of each book. I am not certain if I would even complete them if forced to use an e-reader (leaving aside the fact that we can extract the text from Kindle).

As an aside, I noticed that Pandora keeps track of my listening time and it showed that I have 116 hours listening to my Cienfue radio. The vast majority of it has been passive listening.
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Descargar

Postby coldrainwater » Mon May 22, 2017 4:52 am

I went in without a plan today, and the cards fell as they fell. Right now I am sitting with just over 300 minutes of podcast listening on the day (my flat is squeaky clean).

Forum procrastination time seems to be paying idea dividends (otra vez). I went through a number of threads, some new to me and others familiar and spent a couple of hours downloading podcasts to my smartphone so that they are at my fingertips for the next two weeks. I am not really intending a podcast listening blitz, but when I see it happening, I don't really have a good reason to stem the tide. My daily wants should render the best-laid plans to change.
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reineke
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Re: Plan for reaching B1 Listening (from A2)

Postby reineke » Sun May 28, 2017 9:11 pm

coldrainwater wrote:tldr:

The too long part


Cartoons: These are great to directly address my listening grammar problems. The downside is that I tend to want to watch at most about ten minutes or so daily and I don't want to do it every day. The upside is that they don't make me want to puke and raise anxiety like the telenovelas do so they are open. I'll have to think on this for a bit and see how I can incorporate them usefully. The downside is that there are many parts of the cartoons that simply aren't challenging enough (for my long term goals and even for my current challenge desires) and if I replace too much of my listening with cartoons, I see my interest and the content depth dropping too much. My thoughts here are open to change.

Extensive Reading: This feels like the smartest long-term manner to boost grammar (combined with direct grammar study of course). To that end, and taking into account my forays into each of the other aforementioned areas (cartoons, youtube, etc), I think the reading really offers a level of promise that other areas just can't touch. There is almost no will power cost for me when I read in Spanish. I could do it all day long I think simply by taking nature breaks as needed and making sure I alternate what I read. For a long time, I have had to intentionally prevent myself from reading Spanish so that I could bring up my listening skills sufficiently. I may be objectively at a point where I should now read.

Foros: As another method of reading, I have a strong intuitive hunch that I should be investing forum time in high-brow Spanish forums with good learning opportunity through direct reading.


Objectively speaking, at A2 you shouldn't be able to find cartoons easy nor be able to read extensively in the manner that you describe. So, congratulations! Maybe you should try testing your Spanish over at Dialang. Cartoons are normally 22 minutes long. How can you stand stopping them half way?! I don't find them easier or harder than telenovelas.

You may be onto something with the forum idea:) You will also have to write longer, structured texts but that can wait. I also don't think you need to worry about the slang or low register. That stuff sticks if you're watching TV regularly and reading comics.
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Re: Plan for reaching B1 Listening (from A2)

Postby coldrainwater » Mon May 29, 2017 6:31 am

reineke wrote:Objectively speaking, at A2 you shouldn't be able to find cartoons easy nor be able to read extensively in the manner that you describe. So, congratulations! Maybe you should try testing your Spanish over at Dialang. Cartoons are normally 22 minutes long. How can you stand stopping them half way?! I don't find them easier or harder than telenovelas.

You may be onto something with the forum idea:) You will also have to write longer, structured texts but that can wait. I also don't think you need to worry about the slang or low register. That stuff sticks if you're watching TV regularly and reading comics.

reineke,

Thanks for stopping by my log! Since I wrote and summarized my plan, I have realized that what prevents me from listening for extended periods of time is was the requirement to watch (or even worse, watch and read subtitles). It will be an unconventional experiment, but I will make a folder and download the audio from a big chunk of Youtube cartoons for June. I'll be listening to other media as well since my ears are open for many hours each day and I often leave ES audio playing, tuning in and out as I am naturally inclined to do. Since I have several podcasts under my comprehension belt, that should give me a better feel for how well I am understanding cartoons versus other pure listening media. I'll need to make a few notes in the first hours of listening.

Thanks for the suggestion of Dialang. I have seen the site mentioned several times and I now have it on my todo list. I think my capacity to read ES jumped to lower intermediate within the first three months or so of studying last summer. I think that is partly a case of being monolingual in English (N) and having tons of cognates obtaining a notable ES vocabulary that came without much effort or time. I am putting my eye-time on direct grammar drilling at the moment (Practice Makes Perfect Series), cheating liberally along the way.

Edit: I definitely agree on the low-brow slang. It will stick well enough provided extensive listening. I even don't mind if it is a very long time before I learn that aspect. I live in Houston and I think the whole of our city (sprawl and all) is thoroughly embarrassed by Spanglish and its related sailor speech.
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