Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

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Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:19 pm

elco2 wrote:If you haven't found it yet, I think itunes has a Cebu newspaper "Banat" available in its newspaper/magazine app.


Thanks! Not downloaded yet.

More info:-

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .banatnews

also https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... unstar.app but possibly English rather than superbalita
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:48 pm

Prosody / Pronounciation / Olle Kjellin

viewtopic.php?t=2526#p30851
I do chorusing quite a bit and find it fun. Maybe I missed something about it, but to me it seems really, really easy. I open a sound file with Audacity, select a phrase or sentence (2-5 seconds) with the mouse, and press Shift+Space to start an endless loop. I usually plug in only one ear plug so that I can hear myself more easily. Then I speak along, trying to match the native speaker as well as possible. After a number of repeats I'm usually in sync and can then focus on the finer details. I play around with the volume, loud at first to hear clearly all the sounds, quieter later to be able to better compare my own production to that of the native speaker. Sometimes I skip a round or two to listen and focus on some phonological detail I'm not sure about etc. Sometimes, I let it run for quite a while because it's fun to say this sentence over and over, and at other times, I do it only about 10 times in total and move on to the next sentence.

Whatever it really does, here's what I think it does for me:
- it really helps me to imitate native speaker prosody; language has a rhythm, and it's important to match the rhythm of the native speaker to sound natural, and this is the only exercise I'm aware of which explicitly trains prosody and rhythm; furthermore, whenever you play a sentence on endless loop in any language, it turns into music, and I enjoy this experience and have fun joining in
- it helps me to identify gaps between my and the pronunciation of the native speaker; I've been doing chorusing in Khmer for quite a while now and find it helpful to hone in on certain vowels, on aspiration, or lack thereof, of specific consonant clusters, on voiced versus unvoiced, on glottal stops etc.
- it helps me to rectify these gaps to some extent; let's say, I'm not getting a certain vowel right, then I can play around with different mouth positions until I have it and then stay in the loop for many more times to solidify and build up muscle memory
- it get's me speaking at native speaker speed; this helps me to improve muscle coordination, to work on transitions between sounds etc.

I don't think one needs to do this for 100's of hours, that seems overkill to me. I do it a few minutes at a time. A 4 second segment repeated 30 times takes 2 minutes. If I do 5 of those, then I spent 10 minutes in total.



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/510 ... dacity.pdf
http://olle-kjellin.com/SpeechDoctor/ProcLP98.html

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... N=23&TPN=2

http://olle-kjellin.com/SpeechDoctor/Ch ... actice.pdf

http://olle-kjellin.com/SpeechDoctor/in ... on%20group

Swedish pronounciation CD (not that Swedish on on my to-do list.. yet!) - http://olle-kjellin.com/SpeechDoctor/Pu ... .html#more
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Snow
Orange Belt
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:23 am
Languages: Tagalog (native), English (advanced), Spanish (intermediate), Korean (upper beginner)
x 102

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Snow » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:06 pm

Kumusta?

I find it really interesting that you're learning Cebuano. I'm always amazed when people want to learn Philippine languages. Probably because as a Tagalog native speaker, I've forgotten how to study it. I think the last comprehensive grammar lesson I received was back in elementary school! Or maybe I wasn't paying attention in high school... Plus, Tagalog has been become Taglish nowadays. I wonder if it's the same for Cebuano.

Although I can't help with your studies as I can't understand Cebuano, I wish you the best! Keep up the good work!
1 x

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:00 pm

Snow wrote:Kumusta?

I find it really interesting that you're learning Cebuano. I'm always amazed when people want to learn Philippine languages. Probably because as a Tagalog native speaker, I've forgotten how to study it. I think the last comprehensive grammar lesson I received was back in elementary school! Or maybe I wasn't paying attention in high school... Plus, Tagalog has been become Taglish nowadays. I wonder if it's the same for Cebuano.

Although I can't help with your studies as I can't understand Cebuano, I wish you the best! Keep up the good work!


Daghan salamat / Salamat po.

Taglish, ceblish etc.

7-10 year olds in a doctor's waiting room in Cebu all spoke to their mums (mothers) in English.

But it was cebuano/Filipino English. It's becoming a native language with a few twists.

I've always wanted to learn a language but never got very far.

I didn't learn cebuano in the months I lived there. I tried but didn't understand the only info I could find and as cebuano isn't taught or has prestige, not many resources, no-one knew how to teach! Many dialects.

It all started later with Memrise and Esperanto.

I didn't know grammar terms until Esperanto, they weren't taught for the period I was at school as a matter of education policy. Dumb.

I find it hard to believe (but I've heard it from many people!) that cebuano and Tagalog speakers find it hard to learn each other's language.

Most bisaya that I've talked to prefer speaking English to Tagalog. They generally use all 3 at social events in England.

Very few tagalog speakers speak cebuano, although a few understand as a parent spoke it (before moving to Manila etc).

With mixed marriages, few tagalog speakers seem to learn Cebuano, illonggo etc. Same for mixed marriages with non-Filipino people.

But from my point of view tagalog and cebuano seem so similar!

Similar words ikaw, ng/nga, mahal (love/expensive), langgam (ant/bird).

Use of linkers ng/nga.

Affixes

But as someone (on here) said...

To a Chinese speaker, English and Polish sound like two dialects of the same language!

I can't work out how different or similar cebuano and Tagalog are. Any thoughts?

Can you understand 'giuhaw SA pagmahal' on YouTube?
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Snow
Orange Belt
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:23 am
Languages: Tagalog (native), English (advanced), Spanish (intermediate), Korean (upper beginner)
x 102

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Snow » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:49 pm

I tried watching Giuhaw sa Pagmahal. Nope, I can't understand it! Sounds more like Indonesian(?) to me. There are common words but the way they conjugate words in Cebuano is mind-boggling. Of course, I (and many Tagalog speakers) don't have enough exposure to the language so it seems foreign and I can't find patterns between it and Tagalog.

elco2 wrote:Di ganahan ko sa mga telenovela na pud, pero kana ang mas duol sa conversational nga ceubano ;) kanindot imong gipangitang recording sa Mga Larawan. kinahanglan kog magtanaw ana.


This post from elco2- I only got the first line. I think he said that he doesn't like telenovelas? That's all. Oh, and something about a recording on Mga Larawan. Bakit ang hirap intindihin nito?! :lol:

I played with some Visayans in an online game before and they preferred to use English than Tagalog even though they understood the latter.

Jeez, your log has made me interested in learning Tagalog, Cebuano, etc. in a formal way. But as you said, the resources are fewer compared with those for other languages. And I don't think schools here teach Philippine languages like they teach foreign ones, introducing grammar terms, etc. Hmm I'll call my university tomorrow.
1 x

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:17 pm

Wow. Just wow!

I understood all of elco2's post bar (except for) gipangitang (edit: looking for) and use of tanaw (to watch. I was expecting listen minaw/pamati).

No like I many (pluraliser like '-S' suffix in English) soap operas now also (Tagalog! But used in cebuano often. 'sad' purer bisaya), but that the most close to conversational cebuano wink of nice your looking for recording of mga larawan (librivox/guttenberg short stories by Vicente Rama). Necessary I some near-future-watch that/it.

I didn't understand the bakit is that tagalog? 'intending of that'?

If you find resources you can share... Most welcome even if I can't share onwards!

I added you and elco2's to my friend list. Dunno (don't know) what that does though.

Looked at your log and you have enough language classes / need to avoid wanderlust. But...

If you want to dabble, Memrise baas (username, many weird and wonderful courses) course on 'basic cebuano i' plus 'Cebuano ... Expressions' and 'Cebuano Language Objectives' PDF / 'magbinisaya kita' for grammar.

As this is my first L2 and I can't tell an adverb from a pronoun I suspect you'll find it a doddle (easy).

More resources for tagalog but that's years away for me.

Snow wrote:I tried watching Giuhaw sa Pagmahal. Nope, I can't understand it! Sounds more like Indonesian(?) to me. There are common words but the way they conjugate words in Cebuano is mind-boggling. Of course, I (and many Tagalog speakers) don't have enough exposure to the language so it seems foreign and I can't find patterns between it and Tagalog.

elco2 wrote:Di ganahan ko sa mga telenovela na pud, pero kana ang mas duol sa conversational nga ceubano ;) kanindot imong gipangitang recording sa Mga Larawan. kinahanglan kog magtanaw ana.


This post from elco2- I only got the first line. I think he said that he doesn't like telenovelas? That's all. Oh, and something about a recording on Mga Larawan. Bakit ang hirap intindihin nito?! :lol:

I played with some Visayans in an online game before and they preferred to use English than Tagalog even though they understood the latter.

Jeez, your log has made me interested in learning Tagalog, Cebuano, etc. in a formal way. But as you said, the resources are fewer compared with those for other languages. And I don't think schools here teach Philippine languages like they teach foreign ones, introducing grammar terms, etc. Hmm I'll call my university tomorrow.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:48 pm

30 minutes cebuano in car.

Made one wav file recording 1 or 2 seconds of 'niadtong panahona' slowed down 20% and repeated 10 times.

Had 3 practices. It is useful so I'll try to make some more. Ideally 20 to 30, some with nasal ng and ihapit gihigugma etc combos with H in middle. I find these tricky.

Even without these I think my accent is ok. Wife's says it is. Don't often have to repeat to be understood. But hard to judge. Need to record myself.

20 percent slowed down and 50 reps! Tiny bit longer? Suitable for home, walking (strange looks probably!) But most importantly car. Need many reps as can't do all of them but some possible if traffic is safe.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:02 pm

Snow wrote:Jeez, your log has made me interested in learning Tagalog, Cebuano, etc. in a formal way. But as you said, the resources are fewer compared with those for other languages. And I don't think schools here teach Philippine languages like they teach foreign ones, introducing grammar terms, etc. Hmm I'll call my university tomorrow.


https://www.memrise.com/course/862762/basic-cebuano-i/
https://www.memrise.com/course/1030098/ ... pressions/

https://www.google.co.uk/#safe=active&q ... tives+.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/Magbinisaya-Kita ... 9719368802 (the rest of the course seems expensive - does it even REALLY exist?)

I've just thought - are you in Philippines or likely to visit soon?

Can you get hold of novels by Vicente Rama / Vicente Sotto? 1920s-30s

Visit Cebu? http://www.cebuanostudiescenter.com/
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:07 pm

Tuesday 21st February 2017

Reading up on importance of listening/speaking processes in reading.

high variability phonetic training as mentioned elsewhere on here.

Deciding between similar sounding speech eg sheep / ship and forcing a choice. Training from multiple voices, not just one.

Librivox for Spanish?

Practiced "niadtong panahona" 100 times or so last thing at night and still repeating it this morning!


Wednesday 22nd February 2017

30 mins Cebuano Matthew in car. Som ejoining in. Turned up loud!
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:25 pm

Wednesday 22nd February 2017

Busy evening.

Listened and repeated prosody wav files

9 files in total so far - mostly 50 reps, around 1-2.5 seconds - too short, I'll create some more which are up to 3 seconds.

Practiced but very tired.

Some Cebuano matthew in car - 30 mins?



Thursday 22nd February 2017

Morning

Played and practiced prosody.

Some memrise low frequency cebuano. 113/760 learned.

Some Cebuano matthew in car - 30 mins.

I need to do some Matthew and Grammar - nearly a week through and only 3 chapters out of 28 and no more grammar (expected 2 weeks for this).
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC


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