Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

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Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:30 pm

Spanish

Guttenberg / librivox
English text
Spanish text
Spanish audio

Mainly
Benito Pérez Galdós

Historical fiction

Downloaded texts from guttenberg.
Uploaded to Google books.
Checked spanish audio is on librivox


Cebuano

Trying to find engaging L2 native materials

Usual interests not available in quantity or at all.

Eskina (martial art) YouTube videos and sermons (7th day Adventist) giving more input.

Sermon (45 minutes) clear audio.

Manny Pacquiao preaching.

Animated, hard to follow but english and bible quotes in cebuano give context and keep within my narrow bible vocab.

Language learning

Read up on techniques. Mormon approaches.

Checked my Google books and I have a 100 plus page Mormon cebuano guide that I have dipped into but it was too overwhelming previously.

I should re visit
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SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:16 am

Downloaded LDS library app.

Quick play seems to allow multiple windows on same article in different languages.

Potentially English Spanish and cebuano all open.

No audio for cebuano yet.

Not sure how interesting anything will be but they might have some history.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:57 am

Thursday 9th February 2017

Went back to Mormon 'Cebuano Learning objectives' PDF.

Skimmed through some sections. Seemed great now that I look at it again.

About 115 page PDF. I decided to read from the start and make notes. Now I know more, it's clear and useful. First 15 pages read and notes taken.

I'll skim read it when I can't take notes and then take notes on a second pass when at home.

Can't believe I didn't use it more before.

Great resource. Wonder if they have a Spanish one.

http://sisterhannahsmith.blogspot.co.uk ... e.html?m=1 suggests they have standard resources for a language.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:47 pm

Cebuano,

ŋ

Mormon guide thinks that "ang" - "THE [focus]" is spelt with the nasal sound ie aŋ / aŋg. My wife disagrees.

Dialect?

ie if NG is the nasal sound (Velar nasal - ŋ) in siNG-a-soNG / iNG-a-oNG and N-G is the No-Go sounds (like English)...

is it

1) A-NG (nasal) or
2) A-N-G

using Binisaya.com - it's not helping!

I know these are nasal
ngano [ngá.nu.] (nasal)
ngalan [ngá.lan.]
paingon [pa.î.ngun.]
nga [ngâ.]
mga [ma.nga.]
utang utaŋ debt - http://archive.phonetics.ucla.edu/Langu ... 87_01.html


Non-nasal?
pulong [pú.lung.]


Unsure
ang [ang.]

Further info for myself:-
http://archive.phonetics.ucla.edu/Langu ... 87_01.html


New memrise course - Cebuano Low Frequency Words

Over the last few days I've been skimming a different version of Matthew in Cebuano.

I'm using Chrome on a windows PC with IMtranslator add-in installed.

Anything odd/interesting - I double click and click on speech bubble.

I did Matthew 1 to 10 (I thought I'd done more).

Then I go to to history tab and export the list to MS Access, do some manipulation, unique it, fill in some missing bits and hey presto...

http://www.memrise.com/course/1401452/c ... ncy-words/ - 700 plus words (which I hope to add to). Many I probably know but didn't recognise when I was scanning.

A few are typos. Not many of them were added more than once. They probably exist as duplicates within a nearby sentence, but I only acted once on words which were nearby or I knew I'd added already.

I'm trying to work out whether many words are unique within the text - I think it's better to think that usage is unique to one section of the text.

It does mean that a LOT of words will be rarely encountered and have limited use outside of the passage and especially the context of the bible.

So approx 10,000 words in this section? 700+ unique words, depending on average usage of the word a lot of text is involved
@1 per word = 7%
@2 per word = 14%
@3 per word = 21%
@4 per word = 28%

many of the words have the same root but different affixes - so learning one should help with others especially as affixes get more familiar.

I couldn't decide how to sort them and accidentally left them as alphabetical which is probably a bad idea.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

elco2
White Belt
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:48 am
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (intermediate/advanced), Spanish (Intermediate), Biblical Greek (Advanced), French, Portuguese, Tagalog, Biblical Hebrew (low intermediate) Bisaya dialects, Romanian (Beginner), Russian (beginner), Mandarin (beginner)
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... ?TID=35337
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby elco2 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:02 am

ang not being nasal sounds strange to me. Kudos for putting Cebuano stuff on memrise :)
1 x

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:13 am

elco2 wrote:ang not being nasal sounds strange to me. Kudos for putting Cebuano stuff on memrise :)


Thanks. I've created a few rubbish courses, some are public.

Best cebuano ones in my opinion are 'basic cebuano I' by baas and 'cebuano through expressions' which may be taken from the magbinisaya kita book(s)/course


Ang - nasal

I'd never thought of it, seen it elsewhere. My wife is adamant that it's not nasal. It's hard to argue with a native! Problem is that they don't cover their own language at school and thousands of dialects. Found out yesterday that people from the same town can have different vocabularies depending on how 'street' they are. Also different usage from one end of town to another!

It probably is nasal, I'll do some audio listening. I don't have a good ear for this but now that I know to listen out, I will.

It will be annoying if it's dependent on dialect. Or maybe it means I can do either!
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:28 pm

Someone else said it's nasal in a-ng

Saturday to Sunday I've had 4 different people speak cebuano to me for short periods.

Very kindly they put up with my bisaya and it went well.

Bit caveman style but big improvement on experiences with same people at Xmas.

They seemed to understand my speaking with few explanations.
1 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:27 pm

Cebuano

I'm trying to evaluate my exam week in Cebuano.


Several people spoke and still speak in Cebuano to me initially or after a while.

I understood a lot with some repetitions and rephrasing, people speaking slowly probably.

I didn't understand fast overheard conversations, partly due to subjects such as celebs, politics, family, cultural aspects that are alien to me.

I struggled when tired and with mixed conversations, loud English language TV for kids and childcare meant lots of English. I also read a lot in English which was dumb. History and pronounciation guidance.

My wife says my. Cebuano has improved a lot since Xmas.

She wants me to improve, use it with kiddo and have it as the house language.

But I don't feel that happy. A lot more is needed, considerations about how best to spend the next 6 weeks on cebuano and how to maintain longer term.

Itching to switch to Spanish but that must wait until April.

I'll start my Spanish with pronounciation practice then bible L-R. Then maybe some Jules Verne L-R.

But back to cebuano... I've created a new cebuano Memrise course, 760 low frequency words, 90 learned. Vocab.

Quizlet verb tests. Vocab, speed.


I need to create a pronounciation CD or two for practice as per the Ollie Kjellin PDF.

I tried to summarise, I have joined the Facebook group.

So far it seems to need 12 to 30 sentences. Initially from natives but later my best versions using audacity.

2 seconds initially, repeated 6 or more times, perhaps lasting several minutes with 600 to 800 milliseconds betwixt repetitions.

Maybe slow, normal and maybe even fast versions.

Thousands of repetitions needed. 5 hours a week in the car would be 6000 reps. I can't do that but I should be able to do 500 plus a week.

Aim will be to master cebuano pronounciation and try to get a good accent.


L-R on other parts of the Bible, possibly some short stories guttenberg/librivox. Vocab, listening, reading, pronounciation, grammar.

So prounciation in car. L-R when I can concentrate. Apps when I can fit in otherwise dead time.

Biggest problem is getting opportunity to create prounciation CDs. First cebuano. Then Spanish.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (beginner, best L2), Spanish (beginner), Esperanto (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 124

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:22 am

Sunday 19th February 2017

Cebuano

Trying to do L-R on Matthew with a twist...

Cebuano read and listen
English read, cebuano listen
Do either review of notes or make new notes from Mormon book. Alternate, one review, one new.

Did 3 chapters (2 to 4).

Reviewed quite a lot.

Finished ANG set of markers, pronouns, here, there etc.

Most of OG noun markers, pronouns, NI (personal name) etc.

About page 24 of 130 (more pages when uploaded to Google books).

Once OG complete and SA noun markers done, that's the three types covered and I can review usage in the sentences.

The idea is to mix theory and practice at a good work rate.

Work rate is something I struggle with. Good with apps, Memrise, wlingua and Duolingo. Especially if gamified / competition.

Bad with text books or 'study' especially when tired. My free time isn't my optimal study time.

Pretty good with bible L-R.

Aim is probably redo Matthew and finish mormon cebuano language objectives in 2 weeks.

Then do same with another PDF, 60s peace corps, Tom Marking etc. One book of the new testament and one pdf every 2 weeks. I have 6 weeks of cebuano before switch to maintenance mode and actively learn Spanish pronounciation.
0 x
SC We 21 Jun 17 to Su 31 Dec 17 (daily target words/minutes)
: 58 / 193 SC days:
: 161 / 1250 ES Read (6500):
: 370 / 9000 ES Video (47):

: 4 / 4 Cebuano L-R 4 Gospels:
Next year Cebuano SC

elco2
White Belt
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:48 am
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (intermediate/advanced), Spanish (Intermediate), Biblical Greek (Advanced), French, Portuguese, Tagalog, Biblical Hebrew (low intermediate) Bisaya dialects, Romanian (Beginner), Russian (beginner), Mandarin (beginner)
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... ?TID=35337
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby elco2 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:58 am

If you haven't found it yet, I think itunes has a Cebu newspaper "Banat" available in its newspaper/magazine app.
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