Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

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Systematiker
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*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Systematiker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:41 pm

I commented on your OT thread, but I'll also say this here - after finishing the Gospels, you'll probably want to do Acts from the NT and then go ahead to the OT if you've got the resources for it. The epistles and Revelation will probably be less useful for you at this stage (I use them because I know them well, but since they're direct-address, occasional, and more doctrinally-oriented, you might do better with OT narrative than continuing with the rest of the NT). Acts is narrative prose, and it's actually the continuation of events from Luke (despite the placement).
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Whodathunkitz
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Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:07 pm

No need! Your post with suggestions was very helpful, and I really doubt that my Tagalog is ahead of your Cebuano. I'm just happy to find another person learning a Filipino language. Your log and your dedication are motivating.


Thanks.

I think I've found a method that gels (works for me) at my stage, in my situation.

On reflection, I'm proud that I've kept coming back to Cebuano despite the frustrations.

Forays into Spanish and Esperanto were largely to support Cebuano / learning how to learn.

I think if I can find a method that works for a largely oral/aural language without textbooks - it should be helpful to any other language learning experiences I undertake.

I'm just used to explaining things to people who are completely perplexed by me wanting to learn Cebuano!

Actually any language - there's a lot of people with a very different attitude to me (making assumptions here.... "us?" - meaning forum in general).
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 241

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:48 pm

Systematiker wrote:I commented on your OT thread, but I'll also say this here - after finishing the Gospels, you'll probably want to do Acts from the NT and then go ahead to the OT if you've got the resources for it. The epistles and Revelation will probably be less useful for you at this stage (I use them because I know them well, but since they're direct-address, occasional, and more doctrinally-oriented, you might do better with OT narrative than continuing with the rest of the NT). Acts is narrative prose, and it's actually the continuation of events from Luke (despite the placement).


Thanks very much.

I was intending

1) 4 gospels (MMLJ) (about half of New Testament)
2) Rest of New Testament
3) Selected Old Testament
4) Possibly more Old Testament ....

So now..

Phase 1
2, 3 or 4 of the Gospels (I'm impatient to get ready for a meet up with many native speakers). I haven't decided yet.

With the first 2 Gospels, I've done stage one of either 3 or 4 stages with two gospels already in 2 weeks, so I assume that the other 2 or 3 stages will take another 4 weeks in time for the meet up.

Phase 2
Remainder of Gospels

Phase 3
Acts (NT)

Phase 5 (was 4 but following suggestions)
Rest of New Testament

Phase 4 was 5 (swapped)
Narrative Old Testament as detailed on your other post - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5269#p61318. Probably in chunks. Might even be less than a book in each chunk (will have to check sizes - physical bible best but not on me).


A definite limit I have is that I have a Spanish course coming up in October and I want to do some preparation, preferably skip a level, which may involve certification in June/July.

Hopefully by the time I switch focus, I'll be using Cebuano at home as the main language.

I intend to use the same technique (L-R, well my interpretation) with Spanish.

So I might get to Old Testament in Spanish first!

[some edits for clarity ]
Last edited by Whodathunkitz on Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.

User avatar
Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 749
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA, (C1); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (B2); GRC (B2); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (B1); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); HEB (?); GLG (?); ANG(?); UKR (?); CES(?); FAS (?); HAT (?). Next: SYC, CLD, ARA, ITA, ISL, SWA, AFR, RON, Siebenbürger Sächsisch.
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Systematiker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:58 pm

I really would switch phases 4 and 5 if I were you, but it's your call.

Also, since you've done Mark, do Matthew before John. Both Luke and Matthew take material from Mark, but John does his own thing.
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Whodathunkitz
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Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:07 pm

Systematiker wrote:I really would switch phases 4 and 5 if I were you, but it's your call.

Also, since you've done Mark, do Matthew before John. Both Luke and Matthew take material from Mark, but John does his own thing.


Thanks.

I'll take your advice.

Good timing as I was about to start John. John is shorter so more tempting.

I'm on phone at the minute so hard to refer back.

If John is very different, is it worth leaving until later? Is it better to switch to old testament?

The new testament is more convenient as the Bible app I use only has integrated audio for new testament and I'd have to switch apps and try to link audio to possibly different text/version.

In short I'd prefer to do as much new before old.

Should Acts be done before? Even thought of as part of the Mark, Luke and Matthew group?

At least now (thanks to your help) I know to do Matthew next. That should keep me busy for a week or so.

Thanks again. Your advice is much appreciated and very timely!

(Update first six chapters of Matthew tonight. 22 to go!)
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.

User avatar
Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 749
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA, (C1); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (B2); GRC (B2); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (B1); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); HEB (?); GLG (?); ANG(?); UKR (?); CES(?); FAS (?); HAT (?). Next: SYC, CLD, ARA, ITA, ISL, SWA, AFR, RON, Siebenbürger Sächsisch.
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
x 1702

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Systematiker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:46 pm

I would still do John before Acts, it is one of the Gospels so it's mostly the same story. You just won't get the "hey wait, am I in the wrong book" thing because there's no direct borrowing.

Luke and Acts are actually one work. If I were in your shoes, I'd do Matthew, then John, then do Luke again and follow it with Acts. Stylistically, you'll go over familiar material and then get a new narrative in a continued style.
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Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:59 am

Systematiker wrote:I would still do John before Acts, it is one of the Gospels so it's mostly the same story. You just won't get the "hey wait, am I in the wrong book" thing because there's no direct borrowing.

Luke and Acts are actually one work. If I were in your shoes, I'd do Matthew, then John, then do Luke again and follow it with Acts. Stylistically, you'll go over familiar material and then get a new narrative in a continued style.


Thanks. Did first 6 chapters of Matthew last night which is the pace I did for Mark and Luke.

I keep thinking I can do more at weekends but often do less. So consistent work during the week is key.

Also reading Wikipedia printouts in L2 before sleep and hopefully we continue using L2 a lot at home.

The process is more enjoyable now as I understand more.

I think I might finally be learning affixes just by inference. Affixes turn a root into a verb, noun etc and in Cebuano can compound together.

I know a lot of roots but affixes have driven me bonkers (mad) at times.

Not there securely in my mind yet, but I sometimes get a feel for the word.

Eg matay Is the root, with patay, pagkamatay, kamatayan etc (might not be 100%) meaning things like 'state of being dead', 'to kill', 'the dead' etc (made up examples).

The resources for getting to the bottom of this are few and the explanations haven't stuck.

With more input I hope the explanations result in 'aha' moments.

I can get by in animated conversation with roots with kind people but I really want to progress.

Accent, affixes, shortcuts, slang, dialects are just some of my targets.

More input is the best remedy I think. Audio and people.

Thanks again systematiker
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:21 pm

18th January 2017

Cebuano

AM
30+ minutes of cebuano listening in car, pretty passive with occasional playing with interesting words by saying out loud.

PM

40 minutes car Matthew gospel.

Supermarket shopping day, so less time.

Matthew chapters 7 to 10 L-R. On track still for completing in a week. One third done.

3rd day of cebuano as home language, avoiding English if we can.

I will try to finish the day with cebuano Wikipedia just before sleep.


Spanish

Nothing

Esperanto

Toying with the idea of doing Esperanto audio learning (L-R) to a speaking level before Spanish.

I think Esperanto works a bit like a pathfinder for me, loosening up L2 areas of the brain.

I'd like to be competent in at least one language!

No need to decide yet.
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 241

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:22 pm

Thursday 19th January 2017

Cebuano - priority

Spoken at Home
4th day - mostly Cebuano spoken at home. Switch to English if complicated or to clarify Cebuano usage.

"Me Tarzan, you Jane" but my accent and meanings are understood, I understand the questions asked of me mostly. Starting to conjugate verbs/nouns automatically or correct myself rather than use root (head) words so much.



AM

50 item memrise review. Bit tricky as answers gleaned from tatoeba and have many similar variants and complete oddities - not curated / selected, it's from a complete dump of data and should have come from native speakers.

I have another 200 items to review on that course (self-created, but public) - I have another 800 items to learn if I choose. Some items are entire paragraphs, most are manageable sentences. They are sorted by length from shortest to longest. 800 in total are German<>Cebuano where I've just google translated the German, but include the original german in a note field within the memrise course. So potential for odd stuff.

"Goodbye." led to an answer along the lines of "See you around, take care of yourself!". So hardly literal translations!

Despite this, no major hiccups in completing the 50 items.

40 minutes in car listening to Matthew New Testament Cebuano drama audio - on a loop - 11 tracks - mostly very passive. More understood today.

I'm driving, so I don't pay much attention to the audio unless it's safe.

I can normally place myself in the story within a second or two of concentrating.

I don't understand it all, but still get A-Ha moments - sometimes able to clarify usage with wife, look up a few words online or use of wikipedia last thing at night makes it twig (understood).

PM
40 minutes passive listening.

Matthew gospel. 11 to 13 so far. Might do a bit more. Wanted to have completed more. I'm finding Matthew harder as texts don't line up much. 2 sentences will be reversed in order. Not sure if modern English or 100 year old Cebuano is 'at fault'.



Watched someone do L-R on YouTube and discuss some other aspects of language learning.


Spanish
Downloaded 10,000 sentences android app Spanish sentences. Did 7 to try. Got first wrong as misunderstood what I was meant to do.

Nice app at first sight. I like learning from sentences. Most useful courses on Memrise for me. Can search for words so sentences on a theme.

Won't use until March probably, cebuano until then.


Esperanto
Nothing, fine. Downloaded 10,000 sentences android app Esperanto. None done.
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 241

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:52 pm

Friday 20th January 2017

Cebuano

AM

Quizlet - found new courses by several people including detailed ones on adverbs, affixes, irregular verbs. This is the first time I've ever seen this.

One section had terms I don't know but sound a bit familiar. It might be just what I need to help. I need to match it with my other info.

What does "Inertant " mean?

Best I have for this is https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/b ... 1933_r.pdf (tagalog, maranao, mamanwa, others? - No Cebuano) - "Syntactic Features Of Tagalog Verbs" - PhD submission by Joseph Francis Kess

Phases of the action:-
Opening - source
Intermediate - inertant - ?????
Terminal - terminal

Then goes off to say some people (linguists?) say 4,5,6 !

https://quizlet.com/subject/cebuano%20affixes/ by arleighjane

"Inertant" = in progress? Or is it for a regular act?

I would normally use NAG for uncompleted (I think) eg

nagbasa (reading) - nagbasa ka ba? reading/you/question
*****nagtulog ang bata (sleeping/theFocus/child) - probably wrong as tulog may be a STATE of being and not an action.

Inertant - these affixes
GI-
-A/-HA

Nope, no idea! Stative?

GI- seems to be reflexive (see each other) - direct passive | temporal/durative | past/present (started)

Not sure what the ANB stuff means either!
nga (linker?) - 2 actors (subject, object equivalents) - groups of verbs taking different affixes?

ANB Actor
Mo/Mag

ANB Inertant
On/Hon

ANB Terminal
An/Han

ANB Instrumental
I-

AB Actor
Nag/Mi

AB Inertant
Gi-

AB Terminal
Gi- -An/Han

AB Instrumental
Gi-

Imperative Actor
Pag

Imperative Inertant
A/Ha

Imperative Terminal
-I/Hi

Imperative Instrumental
I-

Wala AB Actor
Mag/Mo

Wala AB Inertant
A/Ha

Wala AB Terminal
-I/Hi

Wala AB Instrumental
I-


I did a few bits, rubbish start, good end.


LOG!!!!
AM
30+ minutes car commute Matthew gospel


PM

30 minutes passive matthew gospels.

Tiny bit of quizlet.

Strained back

***** Yep, tulog (sleep) only takes stative / plural affixes (according to a Tom Marking, non native student's notes)

active stative present/past "natulog" "Natulog ako kagabii". "I slept last night."
active stative future matulog Matulog ako karong gabii. I will sleep tonight.
active stative command katulog pagkatulog
...
active abilitive present/past "nakatulog" "Nakatulog ako kagabii." "I could have slept last night."
active abilitive future "makatulog" "Makatulog ako karong gabii." "I can sleep tonight."
active plural present/past "nangatulog" "Nangatulog kami kagabii." "We slept last night."
active plural future "mangatulog" "Mangatulog kami karong gabii." "We will sleep tonight."

More likely to hear (my observations, not Tom's):-
"tug na[!]" Sleep now! (command); (is) asleep now (state)
"katulgon na (ba)?" are (you/he/she) sleepy now (letters shift around)
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 31 / 600 SC days:
: 4 / 1250 Read (2000 words):
: 241 / 9000 Video (15 minutes):
Daily target in brackets.


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