Whodathunkitz log French, Tagalog, Dutch, Cebuano, Spanish, Esperanto

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:52 am

Over a month since last post.

Busy at work, crash completed language courses (Open University - distance learning) and have another key IT exam I've been struggling to get resources / time for.

Very little Cebuano except at home, unable to do tutor sessions for various reasons including comms, and prior commitments from both sides.

Also coming up to Philippines (Bisaya / Cebuano) holiday. Ph family asked to try and use Cebuano for me and kiddo. Hopeful and nervous, I really want to use the time to improve my language skills and get kiddo to turn passive skills into active. Kiddo starting to spell Bisaya words from the sound, never having read them.

Ideally I would be cramming Cebuano, but have to cram technology for work and exams.
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:20 pm

Passed tech exam. Very hard.

Straight into Cebuano holiday. I asked on main board for in country tips.
3 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:40 pm

2 months no log.

Learning on holiday but not much since.

Holiday... first few days lots of bisaya as hotel staff all bisaya and i was relaxed, not hot and keen. Later on people I'd known for years switched to bisaya with me even if not asked. Hard to gauge what level I am now, but I can do basic communication on a theme but am still often thrown in conversation.

After a while probably got overwhelmed / tired /overheated or conversation went up a level in complexity and switched to English. Cebuano still with family for simple things. Trying to use Cebuano with little one. Neighbouring and relatives (kids) surprised by being able to speak Cebuano. Adults too.


Bought a load of Cebuano books from San Carlos University Cebuano Center. Not read much yet. Parallel texts, poetry, short novels and grammar (with CD - must rip and listen). Last was Conversational Cebuano (different from the one I had before!) with CD. 100+ pages with grammar and exercises. Done about 15 pages. Iversen (I think) mentioned this one.


Little bit of memrise last week - pretty difficult course now, flexible word order and similar questions make it tricky but now getting a bit more done.

Prompted by someone asking how to start learning Cebuano, I gathered resources, found some more and got stuck in a bit.


'New resources'
https://www.sil.org/system/files/reapda ... 73_109.pdf also a part 2 (II)
Readlang (filipino, incorrectly) using advice columns:-
http://kalingawan-collections.blogspot.com/
switch custom dict (was http://www.binisaya.com/node/21?search=binisaya&word={{query}}&Search=Search now: https://glosbe.com/gapi/translate?from= ... ue&phrase={{query}} )

Before reading on readlang - I check it for new words on https://voyant-tools.org (I should do 10 advice columns to get a more representative sample of frequent words) and check I know the most frequent words - if not look up on glosbe eghttps://glosbe.com/ceb/en/pinuy-anan

Then readlang it (but it still seems to fail - so might have to change dict again).

Also Paul Nation guide, some other learning about learning.

Have done a little bit of memrise and readlang now. Would love to find a film with a written script or subtitles. Had a look but no luck so far.
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:31 pm

0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:09 pm

Breakthrough on resources....

Cebuano music video with lyrics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BxtNiFI7Gw

Lyrics for same - https://genius.com/Martina-san-diego-ba ... ang-lyrics

maybe find other cebuano through this.

er - how long have i been looking for something like this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz70Q4a ... &t=50&t=55

it may also solve my wife's desire for Karaoke.... via readlang!

I can also do similar with music my kid likes (karaoke).

more links : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOVNegg ... FFcaWgzx9y
http://cebudailynews.inquirer.net/18088 ... -ni-mayang

vispop 5 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8pqvgF ... Kv3D_m3U-D
shedloads! ArtistKo includes Vispop - https://www.youtube.com/user/artistkocebu/videos
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:29 pm

More Cebuano / Bisaya resources.

Ooh... militant about other Philippine languages "Defenders of Indigenous Languages of the Archipelago"


Sample Cebuano Schoolbook
https://dila.ph/sample_mtbmle_cebu.pdf

Stories
https://dila.ph/Himaya.pdf
https://dila.ph/tawonawong.pdf
https://dila.ph/Tribunal.pdf


Proposed spelling rules + quality rant
https://dila.ph/spellcebuano.pdf

Wordlists in various Philipine languages (no Tagalog/Filipino)
https://dila.ph/dilawordlist.pdf
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:44 am

I haven't logged in for ages. Great Cebuano resources post by speakeasy (on phone, from memory forgive if I'm wrong).

Memrise, readlang (filipino with custom dictionary) and speaking every day.

Not much Spanish, tiny bit of Esperanto but had about ten hours on Dutch prior to a visit and found I could read a lot of notices and museum signs, even bits of websites, menus and newspapers.

I think after Cebuano my brain has changed. Plus Dutch is close to English and German (schooldays to a low level).

I'm reminded of the story of a person who had spent a few years in Japan learning the language and felt frustrated at their progress.

One day they popped into the bar and started watching a programme on tv. They liked the change, something understandable, engaging, funny.

Only after a while did they notice the language was Italian, a language they had never studied before...

Whether true or not I think that after heavy lifting in a different language family, indo European languages seem easier to an English native! If nothing else I am more confident and relaxed with some tricks to use.

It's massively improved my technical learning as well. Brains are plastic and capable of change and growth. Well that's what I believe!
3 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Arabic in a year - Jeff Brown / TPR / Magazines / Children's books

Postby Whodathunkitz » Thu May 16, 2019 10:55 pm

General

Long time no post (and only occasional reading of this site).

I haven't been actively learning for a while, just dipping in and out and speaking basic Cebuano every day at home. Not using PC much day to day at the moment and relaxing a bit.

I found something interesting (to me) just randomly looking at some youtube stuff.

A video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=illApgaLgGA - titled 'How to Acquire any language NOT learn it!') led me to

https://growingparticipatorapproach.wor ... by-domain/ and then https://growingparticipatorapproach.wor ... ctivities/ which I haven't really looked at in detail

The video by a language teacher (Jeff Brown) shows his method and PROGRESS for learning SPOKEN Arabic in a year. Guest slots by Krashen and others.

I find it easy to learn vocab via reading / memrise. I find listening and speaking hard. I find grammar very hard. I've rarely done original writing.

I've had most success with Listening-reading and readlang which misses listening and speaking out. So a spoken only approach is tempting especially as it uses magazines and children's stories in any language. Particularly useful for Cebuano which has few written examples.

My rough notes on video:-

Use magazines initially (20%) and later kids stories (80%) with loads of pictures.

Travel magazine good - travel, clothes, food, adverts, accessories.

[I wondered about using an illustrated kids bible for a standard set of stories for multiple languages but probably better to use my kid's stories that I know very well.]

Need to work with a 'language parent' who 'lovingly' details / describes the magazine / storybook pages ie with emotion and gestures.

90%+ in target language (ideally 99%+). No translations of stories, it's the describing the pictures that is key.

I join in with questions:-

What is this?
What is that?
What is he/she doing?
WHY? - most important

Sessions are RECORDED (audio) for compiling into a revision / repetition list in car and restudy regularly forever.

Rules

[0) My thoughts - 5-10 hours a week - possibly if front of kiddo to see if he'll get at least a bit interested or just hears more Cebuano of a higher level over time. Try to do exaggerated emotions and make it fun]

1) No English, instead use gestures, acting or especially drawing. If it fails - parent (acquirer?) say in target language "It's not important and we will just move on"

2) No grammar explanations, just acquire [possibly some looking up independently when interested]

3) No corrections from language parent at ANY time. [keep fluid?] mentions research by John Truscott proving that corrections aren't effective.

Then discussion of Total Physical response with suggestion of doing 50-100 commands in a session, working up to 500-1000 commands. Found list (link above) to 502 TPR suggestions which are themed. Use gestures, movement, hand signals. I avoided TPR as no tutor available for Cebuano, but this method of using a list turns it into a game like charades.

Another guest saying read lots from the start (contradictory). Texts that interest ME. Then Jeff says reading joins together bits into a whole, smoothes and helps grammar acquisition as reading good for that. Suggestion of 100-150 pages per week [need to convert to words].

When acquirer is ready he asks parent to go to i+1 ie next level.

Group interaction useful for non-verbal and other communication.

Recording all sessions on mobile phone and replay just before bed or in car. Especially useful as these will be at a level I already did and should understand (i). Try to get 100+ kids stories on CD/phone. This ould be especially useful for Cebuano as so little otherwise available at basic / intermediate level that is interesting and colloquial.

Mentions of meetups, trades in language (50/50).

[Listed on screen, not quite sure of meaning]
Suggestions for learning from magazines, stories and TPR lists:-

1) Clothing and colours
2) Greetings
3) TPR
4) magazines
5) Children's stories
6) repeat [possibly meaning using recordings, or do work later again, possibly at i+1 or just as repetition]
3 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
x 291

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sun May 19, 2019 5:32 pm

7 year old has had his second Esperanto session with me and so section 1 of Urso Kurso is complete.... I've forgotten most of my Esperanto, so I've fired up readlang and switched languages.

Pity there's no lyricstraining as pronunciation is dodgy.

Did 30-60 minutes of Cebuano discussion based on images in a travel book as a means to get subjects.
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

elco2
White Belt
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:48 am
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (intermediate/advanced), Spanish (Intermediate), Biblical Greek (Advanced), French, Portuguese, Tagalog, Biblical Hebrew (low intermediate) Bisaya dialects, Romanian (Beginner), Russian (beginner), Mandarin (beginner)
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... ?TID=35337
x 30

Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby elco2 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:57 am

Hi there I've dug my Esperanto out of the basement as well, finding some good materials to work with such as The Esperantist on Gutenberg (vocab), Bible https://newchristianbiblestudy.org/bible/esperanto/ (familiar text), and some children's stories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fmqZmaojaA&list=PLPDzF0B97OtGYLPwIiGpRjIXigF6tn1tb (listening).

Pero, ayaw malimtan nga sige kag magbisya :)
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mick33 and 2 guests