Whodathunkitz log French, Tagalog, Dutch, Cebuano, Spanish, Esperanto

[Whodathunkitz]

The L-R approach has been successful in the week I've tried it.

Partly due to lots of audio (6 hours) and reading input, partly due to the practicality for me mini bible in one hand, phone in the other.

I'm considering adding a little more for the times when I have the opportunity:-

1. Read a sentence aloud.
2. Say each word aloud again as you write it.
3. Read the sentence aloud as you have written it.

* obviously from Prof. Arguelles - http://www.foreignlanguageexpertise.com ... study.html

This is mainly in order to identify patterns, reinforce, find ways around blocks. I also had to type some today and although speaking is more important, I will use Cebuano on facebook, SMS, emails etc.

Also, I might be able to get some more text some time.



I thought about my goals today.

Cebuano - I want to have it as the language used in the house, so my son can pick it up. That way he can communicate with other parts of his family and even travel or study in the Philippines (good for medical study). I've got a few months before I have to switch to Spanish in preparation for a course. I'd enjoy using the language in the house and indeed I do when I can.

Spanish - I'd like to be able to speak for holidays. But the more I think about it, the more I think reading would be interesting. I also intend to do a course in the language which would lead to a language degree.

Esperanto - Was and will remain a tool for me to understand languages better and to be a path-finder. I may not need it at all, but if I ever get accomplished with the other 2 languages (maintenance phase), it would be a shame to not learn it well. But if I'm doing another language then that will take priority.

Other languages - I'm fighting the urge to dabble. I won't start another until I have gained enough in one language to be able to maintain it in simple, enjoyable ways - tv, Ted, films, reading for pleasure. Next might be German. But no need to look into at the moment.

[Whodathunkitz]

For my own benefit, a note of Prof A's list of activities

Scriptorium = writing and transcription, measured in pages and then divided into hours
Narrative = reading and listening to recorded books
Analysis = grammatical study and practice
Shadowing = listening to recorded material and simultaneously speaking it aloud while walking swiftly outdoors

[Whodathunkitz]

With reference to the polydog forum - I found the message (not pinned? I used search) about spammers and registration suspended and pointer to contact form, have asked to join.


Supermarket last night. Didn't feel like doing L-R with bible when I got back.

Got sucked into the Epic Chinese learning log by (outcast / viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1682&start=20#p21437) who spent a very intense-sounding year (including 2 month manic spurt) getting from basic to what sounds like advanced Chinese (to me).

Fascinating.

Lessons to learn

1) Don't spend all your time looking for better methods, just learn!
2) Keep consistently working
3) Gloss/scan, study, review same material several times

Well as I spent most of the evening reading the blog - d'oh!

Other things I got from this

1) Chinese is a harder LANGUAGE than Cebuano for an English native to learn.
2) Wow - what a lot of resources! Books, podcasts, textbooks! Actual real books written since 1941! The language in the books might even be the same as modern usage. You might be able to buy real books on paper!
3) I have to be catalogue my resources (again, but better) and use them well
4) I should do something "tonight", right now..

Yesterday I had 45 minutes passive listening to Matthew / Mateo Gospel in the car (different version from my audio on phone). Some bit more active - repetition of some sounds, words or phrases. Depending on traffic.

Anyway, at the end of the blog reading (do something "tonight"), off I went to the nearest thing I have to a textbook - Magbinisaya Kita Primer 1.

Previously I'd studied sentence structure and looked (in vain) for verb affixes mainly.

I've got probably a thousand roots in my head, but turning them into nouns and verbs (conjugating) isn't there yet and it's been driving me crazy.

In the grammar revision section I'd missed something that I'd seen many times, even done exercises on and it didn't click.

It's also fundamental and simple.

So I'm feeling a bit dumb, but hopeful too.

I'm comfortable with some words being different ways to refer to I/you/he/we/they (ako/ikaw/siya/kita/ila) depending on some "aspect" (case?) - nako, nimo, niya and kanako, kaniya etc - just ninyo throws me sometimes. I'm also comfortable with akong / imong etc as "my" and "your"

I even use them correctly in speech sometimes.

Anyway - I'd missed something simple

siya - he
niya - "of" he (alternative of "iyang" - "his")
kaniya - "for" / "to" he/him

Then it clicked that it's directions of movement or possessive (my-nako, his-niya).

I was too tired to look into it deeply, but I had an early night and after a refresh this morning, listening to the bible for 30 minutes in the car made MUCH more sense.

Now I can look at movement ("swim", "walk", "go there" [adto], "sail" etc) and "give" (hatag) and "take" (kuha) for some examples.

Pretty obvious for any seasoned language learner, but I'm a beginner at this.

This would be an Aha moment I think!

[Stelle]

As someone who's started and stopped Tagalog multiple times over the past few years, I'm enjoying your log. I'm currently in Central America, and focusing on levelling up my Spanish, but I'm planning on starting Tagalog (again) in April when I get home. If you can study Cebuano, a language with far fewer resources than Tagalog, then I have no excuse!

[Whodathunkitz]

As someone who's started and stopped Tagalog multiple times over the past few years, I'm enjoying your log. I'm currently in Central America, and focusing on levelling up my Spanish, but I'm planning on starting Tagalog (again) in April when I get home. If you can study Cebuano, a language with far fewer resources than Tagalog, then I have no excuse!

Good luck to you with your Spanish.

And good luck for the Tagalog too.

Thanks! It isn't the most "sensible" choice for a first language.

But once I have some ability, I hope to use it often in the house and with friends - I do already - probably much to some people's annoyance!

Tagalog does have real courses, many more resources.

Perhaps also get a mobile phone lanyard, t-shirt or jewellery (earrings?) with the Philippine flag on and hang around healthcare facilities (avoid being reported to security)? Have I just thought of a new product line for language learners? Dangly flag earrings (ceb: arites?) for the language you're learning....

I do sometimes wonder if I should have learnt Tagalog first.

I'm not changing now! Over 2 years in total - around 12 months active. nearly 6000 Memrise "words", 6 million points. More importantly a basic understanding of sentence structure and an estimated 1000 root (head?) words. Oh and I've been inflicting this on friends, wife and child.

Taglish - TFC (TV) is available anywhere but it's subject matter doesn't interest me greatly - so no great loss. I suppose I could just about watch cooking shows, but again not a subject I love.

I'm spoilt being English* and being brought up on BBC nature, science, history, comedy shows. Also, having English as my native language is a major advantage for gaining knowledge, following interests.

*I've given up thinking I'm British. I'm English with a world-focus!


Cebuano / Bisaya shows are less numerous and those with decent sound are very few. Those not dealing with crime/news, soap-operas (tele-serys?) are very few!

Literature is hard to come by and archaic in language (probably, I've been told by people as they try and work out what a simple sentence means).

Last time I looked Cebuano was the 3rd biggest language on Wikipedia by article. But stub articles about butterfly species added by a Scandinavian bot doesn't grab me!

The Cebuano article on the second world war is good and long. I can get the gist, but not the detail, I'll keep trying. It helps that it's a subject I know well. I'd love more of these. El Cid, countries (US, France, Spain, Philippines etc) and a few others are a bit meaty.

Even Aesop's fables (Esopa) in Cebuano would have been great. Check for Esopa in Tagalog? Pretty sure Librivox has it for Spanish and presumably Guttenburg too, or buy a book (imagine, books in the L2!!!). Probably great for learning basic animal names (Zorro).

Hopefully there are some good Tagalog wikipedia articles, and there are certainly many more Tagalog books and magazines. Some of the Chinese shops near me have papers/magazines aimed at Filipinos. Perhaps some of the articles (many of the adverts) will be in Tagalog/Filipino/Taglish.

Many more online resources for Tagalog too. Or Taglish - hard to know which to aim for - provincial (purer) or MTV presenter (lots of English mixed in). I don't know enough. I just know that many of the root words I know in Cebuano are considered bukid (mountain, provincial, deep, old-fashioned, bisdak, archaic, embarrassingly naff).

Also, karaoke - you don't need to be able to sing, very supportive people even to the most challenged! Many Tagalog ballads available, some Cebuano. Good ice-breaker.

The good side of learning a less resourced language is that I hope to find a way to learn that suits me, is cheap, convenient, enjoyable and repeatable.

Spanish is next.

I'll start Spanish if I find a method I can use easily and enjoyably and get to a reasonable level with Cebuano or I run out of time before my Spanish course starts in October.

So many Cebuano words are Spanish in origin, bit more than Tagalog probably. Time, numbers and many common words.

I've learnt many Spanish words from Cebuano!

[Whodathunkitz]

As someone who's started and stopped Tagalog multiple times over the past few years, I'm enjoying your log. I'm currently in Central America, and focusing on levelling up my Spanish, but I'm planning on starting Tagalog (again) in April when I get home. If you can study Cebuano, a language with far fewer resources than Tagalog, then I have no excuse!

I had a brief look at the your language log.

I'm not in the same league as your Tagalog with my Cebuano!

So excuse my previous post, and I shouldn't assume everyone is as basic as me! I'm used to expressing myself to a different set of people...

[Whodathunkitz]

70 minutes of Cebuano bible in car.

Few pages of primer.

Luke chapters 4 to 6.

Read L1
Read L2 and listen L2
Read L1 and listen L2

Definitely more understood.

Total new testament estimated at 25 to 30 hours.

One pass say 50 hours of new material. Total 3 passes would make 150 hours.

I'll actually split it into 2 parts or missions. So 13 hours of 4 gospels say. Repeated 6 times for about 78 hours.

After that I think I'll speak (or whenever feels right) and study in depth and add writing. Writing should be dictation, then exercises, stream of consciousness and finally journal. I can add Facebook and email when it feels right.

Then do rest of new testament as another mission.

Speech speed seems slow. I caught myself thinking 'get on with it!'. A while back I thought it was insanely fast.

So improvement there.

Because resources were few, I was clueless how to learn and Memrise suited me, my learning is very lopsided.

Getting into a method I can adher to now. Emphasis on listening for now.

Bible in car (as I understand more, I'm more likely to keep it on and not switch to radio).

At home try to use Cebuano with wife. Let kiddo overhear.

Few pages of anything resembling a textbook.

Hopefully 3 chapters of the new testament.

Blog progress.

Bit of textbook.

Free reading of printed Wikipedia.

Sleep.

Few pages of textbook in the morning.

50 item Memrise review.

Rinse and repeat.

Some rest days. Some parties with listening and speaking. Different accents and dialects.

I've never been a creature of habit. We'll see!

[Whodathunkitz]

Wahey just found and read a superbalita article that didn't involve violence, celebs, sport, corruption or a combination.

Sinulog procession which I've kind of been on.

There are 2 as I remember.

One religious and one not.

Only a couple of million people.

Dancing and catchy tune.

Being the tallest person and a good catcher allowed me to catch the freebies thrown by celebrities. I could pass them onto others in our group and locals found it funny.

[Whodathunkitz]

Last night a bit of Ceb to finish. I think it's important to finish the waking minutes with Cebuano (L2) rather than L1 (English).

Few lines from textbook - (enclitic?) particles?

ba, gayud, diay, kaha (new one for me) etc

Many all seem to be only subtlety different and to a degree interchangeable and to each have multiple uses.

Confusing. Hasn't clicked. I'll concentrate on 1 or a few and try to notice its use in the audio bible.


Today...

In car today 30 minutes of Bible - more understandable, as I know more words, siya/niya/kaniya makes sense (he/of he/for or to he) and also I know the Jesus story in more detail. Mostly very passive listening, occasionally repeating bits. More bits make sense, in longer forms. More enjoyable / less of a chore!


100 item Memrise review, one dumb error (Martes - I said was Thursday rather than Tuesday) but I was daydreaming on that one - minor word order puzzles, but as it's flexible, I wasn't wrong. I'm not sure there were any words that seemed new. Probably 1 or 2 but I wasn't concentrating hard. No typing tests, so fast and either word order (few goes until it's right) or multiple choice with a pick of 4 (2 or 3 obviously wrong, must be this one or that one, oh yeah).

So that's 700 items reviewed on memrise with only a few mistakes in the last few days with minimal effort.

I'm by far the highest for that course - 1.3 million points plus.

5,800+ words and over 6.3 million points in total.

Probably 1000+ are Spanish, Esperanto and other bits and pieces. Many are duplicates, near duplicates but some words might actually be sentences, I'm not sure if memrise means "questions" / "items" or genuinely a word.

My points score is tiny compared to some people.

I won't be using memrise to learn new words (for a long time probably) but will review during dead time when it's the only option. 2,400 items to review for Cebuano. About 1,000 for Spanish (did I really do that many?) and 100+ for Esperanto.

The reason I might have many words is that I tended to do campaigns to finish a course rather than use the SRS / review.

I did this partly as many of the Cebuano courses contain the same words.

Therefore by doing 4-5 new courses in the same time I did reviews on the most common words anyway.

Learning new is slower (10 items) and adds less points than easier big review sessions (50 items). So I think it was the right approach for Cebuano. The fact that very few items are unknown to me is good.

Otherwise by watering a variety of courses I had to answer the same question 10 times. But might have many fewer words and a million more points.

I'm not sure what I did for Spanish, probably a mix of careful review and careless pressing on with new items from multiple courses.

Memrise - enjoyable, addictive, useful? Not sure - I am where I am now because of it, but that has good and bad sides. Very lopsided knowledge.

I prefer the current L-R approach on the audio new testament bible. Especially for a language which has little literature or textbooks. Aesop's fables could be another contender for a universal text/audio basis, but for me not as Universal as the new testament.

I know there's a text of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - not sure about audio. New Testament is 25-30 hours of audio though. A valuable resource! There might even be other Cebuano versions that I can use. Possible that the Old Testament might be done now or at some point. I think that's longer and I would have a deep understanding of who begat who....

Thanks to siomotteikiru (and to anyone else who contributed - I don't know the full background) and her ideas -
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... p?TID=6366
http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/ ... ing_Method

[Whodathunkitz]

In a meeting today I wrote notes in cebuano when I knew the word or something close.

Another 30 minutes of bible listening in car.

Spoke with kiddo in bisaya and asked some questions. He understood and answered in English.

Two chapters of Luke, 7 and 8.

2 pages of grammar summary.

Will finish tonight with some bisaya Wikipedia.

Understanding a bit more of audio and text.

Got a bit lost in one section as I'm too tired.