Whodathunkitz log French, Tagalog, Dutch, Cebuano, Spanish, Esperanto

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Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:29 pm

Cebuano

Finished grammar review section in primer. Will now repeat. Then find some detail to explore.

It isn't very detailed.

I will revisit affixes at some point and maybe make charts.


This morning did 50-100 Memrise review items. No major problems. A few unfamiliar words. Flexible use of enclitic particles and word order foxed me at times. Only 90 remain to review in that course, so about 800 done recently with no drama.

Another 2300 to review on other cebuano courses but not my priority. Probably 3000 items I could learn in other cebuano Memrise courses. Most are duplicates of ones I know. So not much point.

Luke 9 to 12 done. Half way or more through Luke. John and Matthew still to do.

I'm finding it easier but getting time to concentrate is difficult. I understand more and can even predict a little. Only the long complex words with many fast sounds throw me when listening.

I found old testament text in cebuano in another bible app but it's probably old language. No audio within that app, but it would only be used after I complete the whole of the new testament and I might be able to find separate audio.

Completion of new testament would involve listening to 25 to 30 hours of audio six times for minimum of 150 hours. Plus dictation, speaking it several times and translating from English to cebuano. So I hope I only need audio in the car and will be able to read cebuano by then. I hope I won't need to match them.

Listening in to conversation with my wife and her mum. I could understand a lot and added comments in cebuano (broken).

Activating speech is more automatic and fluid. Some expression in my voice rather than stilted.


Spanish

I think when I learn Spanish I could use the bible but would prefer Aesop's / esopa fables.

Should be able to find cartoon version for kiddo.

Will start Spanish in earnest in April I think.

It depends on my cebuano level and whether it is high enough to use at home and maintain that way.

I might add a tiny bit of Spanish before April to prime myself, get a feel for useful and enjoyable texts and audio.

I previously did about 5 months of Spanish, most recently 2 months half heartedly before Xmas. Did duolingo test outs in 5 days then goldened the tree and wlingua A1 in 9 days. But I can't speak. And the listening merges and I can't distinguish words and word boundaries.

Spanish course starts in October. I want to be ahead of material to minimise workload.


Future

Other ideas, translate Aesop's fables into cebuano and record by native speakers.

Maybe tongue twisters, minimal pairs, glottal stops, syllable emphasis, modification of length of vowel.


Bed now but some ceb just before sleep
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:41 pm

Oh yeah, wife speaks more bisaya to me now.

Getter closer to a conversation with her for a few sentences before we hit misunderstanding/vocab problems.

As it's often things we don't want kiddo to understand, he'll probably learn it!
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:52 pm

Sunday today.

Cebuano

200 Memrise item review.

100 on cebuano expressions (all 800 plus needing review done in last week or so, without my effort).
No typing.

100 by someone called "baas". "Basic cebuano course 1" with typing.

Baas does a load of current and extinct languages, many of them ones I've never heard of.

He did a 180 item basic cebuano course which is well structured. This is the one I'm reviewing. I'm guessing I haven't touched it for months.

A few unfamiliar words (natives would use english words generally for some of these). Nice sentences.

Gospel of Luke chapters 13 to 15 inclusive.

Usual 3 passes.

Read L1 (eng) for familiarising myself with subject. Helps that the story is generally the same to mark which I've done. Hopefully John and Matthew will be similar. Handheld bible with tiny type. Modern English in bible.

Read l2 and listen L2 (ceb) at the same time to get word boundaries etc. Bible.is app

Finally read L1 (bible book) and listen to L2 (bible.is android app).

Definitely learning. Memrise reviews easier if I don't over think and just choose a natural word order. Makes the Memrise quick, enjoyable and addictive. That's probably one of the 2 reasons I used Memrise so much before and became lopsided in my learning.

The other reason is that I was clueless how to proceed and keep it up.

I find Memrise, Duolingo, wlingua apps addictive and very convenient. Wlingua Spanish A1 was 280 levels/reviews. 9 days even though work and home was busy. Memrise I can really go for and I estimate I can get through 100 to 200 new items/ 600 plus reviews a day?

Paper based methods have been difficult for me to keep to.

The L-R method started with enthusiasm, became a bit of a chore but is maybe now settling down to something I can live with. Little "aha moment" rewards, improvement (which means I'm probably still at a low level) and me, Mrs and kiddo using/responding to cebuano more.

So I think I'm internalising sentence structure and grammar. I think my speech and listening, all aspects in fact are better.

Understanding more of the cebuano bible as I become more acquainted with the story and know more of the words.

Downside is that translations don't match and hard to keep place in the app when I get interruptions. I therefore am getting skilled up in getting back on track.

I've noticed my wife is speaking more cebuano to me and kiddo now. I hope this continues. She finds language switching hard.

Less than 2 weeks into this technique and 3 ish weeks into this Cebuano push. I had a week of Iversen's technique (as I understood it) before seeing his posts on L-R and some links. Seemed to match the tools I have and my preferences. So subjective and I'm sure others have better techniques for themselves.


Spanish.

Toy reviews in Spanish on YouTube cast to TV for last few hours.

Kiddo plays with his own toys and sometimes glances across, finds something interesting, looks in detail and even repeats.

Lots of words similar to Cebuano.
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:31 pm

I've just seen that one of the Bible apps I have can use 3rd party audio files if named correctly.

With a language like cebuano with few audio resources and fewer with an English translation, it might be useful.

Not ideal. I don't know how to do this and phone only has internal storage.

Cebuano simple bible bbe android app.

"The app. can interact with audio files in "audio4bible" folder in external storage.
The audio file name format needs to be "[Book]-[Chapter].mp3", eg. /mnt/sdcard/audio4bible/2Chronicles-36.mp3"
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:37 pm

Monday 16th January 2017.

Cebuano

Wife suggested we speak in Cebuano at home! Major change.

Few short chats plus one that probably lasted 20 minutes. She slowed right down and explained terms I didn't know or understand in context.

Very refreshing. Not going to ask many questions as to why but she did say she can express herself better in cebuano.

I'd like to know and hopefully she'll volunteer why but I'd rather not over analyse or jinx things.

It was me that faded later talking about complex things and being tired.

My speech is probably bad but getting better. It's a bit "me Tarzan, you Jane" using roots of words rather than proper verbs or nouns at times.

She seems to understand my accent reasonably well.

Listened/watched about 90 minutes of YouTube talk show. Nature was political, so to avoid breach of this forum's rules, I won't detail. Mix of cebuano, English, possibly Tagalog. Mostly cebuano.

Worked well, interesting, funny, relevant style of speech by educated Cebuanos (Mindanao bisaya) whose target audience would be more general cebuano/bisaya speakers.

Major push on Luke gospel. Did 16 to 24, finished it.

So mark and Luke done. The translation is unique and doesn't map to another bible in English.

Learning at an excellent speed. Much faster than at any other time. About 25% of new testament done. Professor Argueles (spelling?) Reckons on 25 to 30 hours audio in new testament drama versions.

So say 6.5 hours of unique audio so far, listened to twice, read once. 13 hours (listened twice) of listening to L2 as a minimum, in 2 weeks.

So an hour a day listening plus average of 30 minutes loop of another version's Matthew gives 90 minutes a day plus 30 minutes reading in L2.


I did plan to do John then Matthew (4 gospels repeating the same story. I don't know the story well) then do further L-R steps (whatever they are!) together on all 4 gospels. Then repeat the process on other half of new testament.

Then I could try old testament (much bigger) either just text or try and merge text with another source's audio.

Now I have 2 mad ideas.

One, now do remaining L-R steps on just the 2 gospels.

Next "book" would be Matthew plus John. But left until later.

This might allow me to finish in time for a get together next month and practice speaking cebuano to a wide group.

Next daft idea is once I have a very good level of cebuano, to ladder it for learning Spanish.

I don't think many have ever tried that!

Spanish

Nothing, thought about laddering from cebuano or doing ceb and Spanish together.

But ceb has to be priority until April.
Last edited by Whodathunkitz on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

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Xenops
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Xenops » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:10 am

Hello! I had not heard of Cebuano before, and had to do a Google search. :) I did find this link, did you already know about it? http://learncebuano.com/

I had purchased a French-English Bible for my learning endeavors, myself. It looks like this site has at least one audio Cebruano Bible: http://www.bible.is/CEBRPV/Matt/1
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Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:23 am

Xenops wrote:Hello! I had not heard of Cebuano before, and had to do a Google search. :) I did find this link, did you already know about it? http://learncebuano.com/

I had purchased a French-English Bible for my learning endeavors, myself. It looks like this site has at least one audio Cebruano Bible: http://www.bible.is/CEBRPV/Matt/1



I use bible.is android app (same as your link)?. It has a choice of a few cebuano bibles. I use one which is new testament only but the version I use has very good sound and is dramatised with different actors doing different parts.

It costs them $40,000 per new testament. 100 k for old (bigger).

Something like 1200 languages / bible versions.

I've searched for material for 2 years. It's quite hard to come by!

I have bit of a collection.

Biggest hole is an approciable guide to verb and other affixes which modify the root and can be added together.

It's not taught in schools, has only Facebook and tabloid newspapers in modern written form.

It has no standardised spelling.

It's also very diverse, with many dialects.

20 million speakers maybe.

My first real L2 !
1 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:28 am

In all these posts I've forgotten some things I do automatically.

Witter in cebuano and say out loud dramatically I think I mentioned.

But the other thing I do is replace words or phrases when reading kiddo his bedtime stories. Done this for a year plus. Can't remember.

Until he tells me to stop!
0 x
2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

Whodathunkitz
Green Belt
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Cebuano (basic spoken daily, best L2), Spanish (beginner, but can read), Esperanto (beginner and not maintained). Sometimes dabble with Dutch, Serbian, Slovak, Czech, German and Arabic.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5133&start=30
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:26 am

Tuesday 18th January 2017

Will update this entry during the day

Cebuano

Morning

82 Memrise items reviewed in baas basic cebuano I

One very wrong, couldn't remember tag-as usage of plural for taas meaning tall.

Couple were a struggle, otherwise dead easy.

Tired from late night.


30 minutes Matthew gospel mp3s in car. Not rush hour so could repeat words, sounds, phrases that interested me quite often. Interrupted by Traffic Alerts which I tried to convert to Cebuano. It kind of just started and then I consciously continued. But apart from near, road, street, town etc not much can be easily converted by me yet. Still, quite an interesting thing to spontaneously happen.

Last thing I do at night is always Cebuano (I try). Wittering to myself / inner voice has more Cebuano in it now. None / very little while at work today though.


Afternoon

30 minutes Matthew gospel in car. Kind of shadowing but no text. Repeat anything that interested me.

Speaking in cebuano at home. Ok. Mostly Cebuano.

Wife thinks my accent has improved after this recent 2 week audio push.

50 items Memrise review. Different course I created from items on tatoeba.

Tatoeba sentences are often very similar but answers are different, so bit of guesswork.

Should have come from native speakers of cebuano. Often a bit tricky (deliberately?).

A few mistakes. So many variations on "this/that man will run" often relating to whether distance is closer to the speaker or listener or whether 'that' is medium or long distance. Can't express this in English so cebuano speaker has taken a punt (chance).

There are 2 'this' and 2 'that' in cebuano (more?). Some use shortened patterns and word order is pretty flexible.

But an interesting insight into how language can affect thoughts.

The other one is 'we/us/our' inclusive of listener (kita/ato/atong) or exclusive (kami/amo/among).

Actually avoids need to clarify that English sometimes requires.

Preparing for assault on Matthew gospel. Target is one week.

Phone app - check
Bible - check
Tea - need tea!

Rightho, first go at Matthew. Chapters 1 to 6 inclusive. Wanted to do more but too tired.

Steady progress, on track for completing first pass in a week. First pass is actually three tasks. Read l1. Read L2 and listen L2. Read L1 and listen L2.

So two L1 reads and two L2 listens plus one L2 read.



Spanish

Nothing/wala/nada
Last edited by Whodathunkitz on Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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2018 Cebuano SuperChallenge 1 May 2018-Dec 2019
: 150 / 600 SC days:
: 6 / 1250 Read (aim daily 2000 words):
: 299 / 9000 Video (aim daily 15 minutes):

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Stelle
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Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:37 pm
Location: Canada
Languages: English (N1), French (N2), Spanish (advanced), Tagalog (basic), Russian (beginner)
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Re: Whodathunkitz log Cebuano Spanish Esperanto

Postby Stelle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:23 pm

Whodathunkitz wrote:
Stelle wrote:As someone who's started and stopped Tagalog multiple times over the past few years, I'm enjoying your log. I'm currently in Central America, and focusing on levelling up my Spanish, but I'm planning on starting Tagalog (again) in April when I get home. If you can study Cebuano, a language with far fewer resources than Tagalog, then I have no excuse!


I had a brief look at the your language log.

I'm not in the same league as your Tagalog with my Cebuano!

So excuse my previous post, and I shouldn't assume everyone is as basic as me! I'm used to expressing myself to a different set of people...

No need! Your post with suggestions was very helpful, and I really doubt that my Tagalog is ahead of your Cebuano. I'm just happy to find another person learning a Filipino language. Your log and your dedication are motivating.
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