A Words Enthusiast

[Axon]

Now I am curious what your personal reason for also learning Javanese, in addition to Indonesian, would be.

I'm glad you asked! I had a weekly hour-long class conducted in Indonesian for beginning learners of Javanese. It was part of my Indonesian study curriculum. I had no strong desire to use Javanese to communicate (every single adult I spoke to was fluent in standard Indonesian), but I knew studying it would help me understand the informal Indonesian I heard, which was often mixed with Javanese.

And how exactly did you do your Arabic research? What parts of MSA would you like to explore for a start? In case your answer would be "all of them" , then I'd ask you, "What would be the next learning step you weren't able to make yet?" instead.

I did my Arabic research by reading through various blogs for learners of Arabic and also combing through online phrasebooks and textbooks. I wrote an article about how to say hello in Arabic, and for that I probably read fifteen other articles on the same topic to find different aspects to write about. I'm actually most interested in MSA as taught to children for a start. I know that there's an MSA version of Sesame Street on YouTube. This is interesting because the language will be presented as a spoken language, monolingually through songs and with a variety of voice actors repeating the same things. There are also a lot of resources in Indonesian in the same vein.

I am nearly a total beginner right now. I can recognize a handful of letters and I know a couple of phrases, but I've never tried to speak them. I also have an Egyptian friend who is quite keen on my learning MSA. My plan is to use chorusing and extensive listening for the first 10-20 hours, and then work through Ghalib Al-Hakkak's book and correspond with my friend once I have a good idea of how the language sounds.

[SGP]

I had a weekly hour-long class conducted in Indonesian for beginning learners of Javanese. It was part of my Indonesian study curriculum. I had no strong desire to use Javanese to communicate (every single adult I spoke to was fluent in standard Indonesian), but I knew studying it would help me understand the informal Indonesian I heard, which was often mixed with Javanese.

Learning Javanese to understand (colloquial) Indonesian better, that really does make sense! And when I seh someting, I do mean it. As for the number of speakers, Javanese is far from being a niche language anyway. It really is a Big Player. When I was reading some lists of the Major World Languages (based on the number of speakers), Javanese frequently popped up.

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I am nearly a total beginner right now. I can recognize a handful of letters and I know a couple of phrases, but I've never tried to speak them. I also have an Egyptian friend who is quite keen on my learning MSA. My plan is to use chorusing and extensive listening for the first 10-20 hours, and then work through Ghalib Al-Hakkak's book and correspond with my friend once I have a good idea of how the language sounds.

Let me tell ya that I do consider (almost) everyone on LLorg one of my Language Learnings Colegas using the broader definition.

However, there are some to whom that description also applies using the other definition, i.e. the more specific one. They are about two dozens in total. And they sometimes provided some especially useful input. Just like you did, too, when we were discussing that "Language Logs vs. Museum Exhibitions With a Don't Touch Me Sign" topic. When someone is one of them, there are some more things I am able to do than I would be able to do otherwise (time/resources/...). Also, I couldn't even care less about these contacts being "online only". It is very In Real Life to me, not making any distinction. So here you go, colega :

Six Arabic Learning Tools

[eido]

I want a good accent, to be sure, but there is simply no need for me to ever present as anything other than an American who speaks a foreign language well.

I have to keep telling myself this, but I don't think I'll ever get it cemented in my head.

[SGP]

I want a good accent, to be sure, but there is simply no need for me to ever present as anything other than an American who speaks a foreign language well.

I have to keep telling myself this, but I don't think I'll ever get it cemented in my head.

Not trying to make you adopt any point of view you wouldn't be comfortable yourself. But just a little hint. Very many years ago, I also did care more about achieving a next-to-native accent than I do today. This was because of something like, well, maybe peer-pressure and stuff. Not implying that it would be the case in your situation. But later, my overall attitude (not limited to that matter) became "well I don't really care what people say, I don't really watch wha dem wan do". By the way, what I just mentioned isn't related to any song that "just might" include these particular words. I do detest several parts of it. But when I consider something a good thing (i.e. that particular idea when applied in the right circumstances), I also wouldn't reject it just because I disagree with the one who initially spoke these words.

[eido]

But later, my overall attitude (not limited to that matter) became "well I don't really care what people say, I don't really watch wha dem wan do".

I could just not care, but the desire to speak a language with no discernible accent is a strong one. I want to be some kind of teacher, and I don't want my students to catch bad habits from me. Also, I've reviewed some jobs postings, and some Spanish teaching positions require that you speak with a perfect accent and near-native fluency, if you're not a native speaker yourself. A little extreme if you ask me. But it is a barrier that exists.

[SGP]

But later, my overall attitude (not limited to that matter) became "well I don't really care what people say, I don't really watch wha dem wan do".

I could just not care, but the desire to speak a language with no discernible accent is a strong one. I want to be some kind of teacher, and I don't want my students to catch bad habits from me. Also, I've reviewed some jobs postings, and some Spanish teaching positions require that you speak with a perfect accent and near-native fluency, if you're not a native speaker yourself. A little extreme if you ask me. But it is a barrier that exists.

If you want to be a teacher, then things are a bit different once again.
And as for how to cope with some people's Ivory Tower Expectations, well... I, personally, don't even try to do so. Instead, I would be aiming to present some good arguments. But people mix up the factual statement level and the personal level too often. So this is a bit tricky, no doubt.

And at least generally speaking (this could be a slightly useful reminder for Axon, as well as for your private life, rather than some job applications): When reducing one's accent, it is very important to know where exactly the sounds come from, how the position of the lips should be, etc.
EN: Places of articulation:
AR: مخارج الحروف makharij al-7uruf

[Monox D. I-Fly]

Learning Javanese to understand (colloquial) Indonesian better, that really does make sense! And when I seh someting, I do mean it. As for the number of speakers, Javanese is far from being a niche language anyway. It really is a Big Player. When I was reading some lists of the Major World Languages (based on the number of speakers), Javanese frequently popped up.

Wow, I never knew that my native language was that popular...

[SGP]

Learning Javanese to understand (colloquial) Indonesian better, that really does make sense! And when I seh someting, I do mean it. As for the number of speakers, Javanese is far from being a niche language anyway. It really is a Big Player. When I was reading some lists of the Major World Languages (based on the number of speakers), Javanese frequently popped up.

Wow, I never knew that my native language was that popular...

It may not be the most wide spread international language. But you still got an incredibly large number of speakers. Even if almost all of them (theoretically) stayed within ID, they still produce a great amount of Internet content, it seems.

[Monox D. I-Fly]

Learning Javanese to understand (colloquial) Indonesian better, that really does make sense! And when I seh someting, I do mean it. As for the number of speakers, Javanese is far from being a niche language anyway. It really is a Big Player. When I was reading some lists of the Major World Languages (based on the number of speakers), Javanese frequently popped up.

Wow, I never knew that my native language was that popular...

It may not be the most wide spread international language. But you still got an incredibly large number of speakers. Even if almost all of them (theoretically) stayed within ID, they still produce a great amount of Internet content, it seems.

Ummm... I referred to Javanese, not Indonesian...

[SGP]

Ummm... I referred to Javanese, not Indonesian...

If you are referring to Javanese, one of two cases must apply:
- You are bilingual at least.
- I got your log's "I am an Indonesian and because its sentence structure is similar to English..." statement a bit wrong.

But nevermind. Even if you "only" speak Javanese, that language does have some benefits. Including a very high number of speakers, too. I kept being a bit surprised when not only Indonesian, but also Javanese, was much more near to the beginning of several World Languages Lists than to their end. And a second benefit is about what Axon and I were talking about, i.e. learning Javanese to understand colloquial Indonesian better.

Now for some more benefits, because this still is Axon's space... #YourLogIsMineNowNot

- A certain type of coffee has been named after the island of Java (side-note: a programming language has been named after it / the coffee, too). If you are a coffee drinker, I am sure that you can get some More Advanced Background Information from many Javanese Natives than you could do otherwise.

- Even if a very great amount of Indonesia's total population speaks Bahasa Indonesia, talking to someone in his native language (whenever it differs from it) still is a different experience.

- There are Javanese speakers in Suriname. You know, a South American country (where Dutch still plays a big role, by the way. And that reminds me of Indonesia). Approx. 10% of its, i.e. Suriname's, inhabitants are from Java, as they say.

- I don't have the slightest issue with Indonesian containing some constructed elements (if anyone wonders about that one, well, they could read a bit about it ). But if I am not mistaken, Javanese is a 100% natural language. So taking a closer look at it could also reveal something more about the history or roots of Indonesian.