Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

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Chung
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Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
STUDIES: Hungarian, Italian, Ukrainian
OTHER: Czech, German, Polish, Slovak
STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:18 pm

AZERI

I've completed the second chapter in each of Elementary Azerbaijani and Azerbaijani for Beginners. In the former I relearned among other topics, the plural suffix, alternations of stem-final q and k, forming binary questions, and the conjunction/postposition ilə "and/with". In the latter, I studied a few kinship terms, some vocabulary for describing professions, demonstrative and possessive pronouns, and how to use var "there is/are" and yoxdur "there isn't/aren't".

This foray into Azeri has given me a bit of an excuse to read anything about the language or other Turkic languages and I've been reading the chapter on Azeri in The Turkic Languages. Unfortunately, I haven't found any substantial reference book on Azeri grammar that I could use with the best and most useful work that I could get is the fairly concise Aserbaidschanisch - Kurzgrammatik in German. Of some interest is this article on the place of Azeri and Russian in Azerbaijan today although a Redditor has come down hard on the article's accuracy and insinuations. Notwithstanding the content, it's also available in Russian and so can be made into a dual-language text.

While looking for extra material about Turkic to read, I stumbled on the archive of past issues of the journal "Turkic Languages" edited by Lars Johansen, who is one of editors of "The Turkic Languages" which I mentioned previously. This archive is a small gold mine for anyone interested in Turkology, and I've yet to look at all of the past issues to find any articles of particular interest, but I do expect to burn up valuable studying time reading at least a few articles.

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FINNISH

I've completed the first few exercises in Chapter 8 of Suomen Mestari 2, all of which are tied to the chapter's introductory text and dialogues about shopping. The main points in grammar under focus are the plural declensions for each of the partitive and genitive. There are also several new verbs to learn along with their respective case governance.

I've been watching a videos of Suomitaskussa while on my lunch breaks at work. I don't remember anything specific of them, but I need at least a little bit of Finnish in front of me every day to keep the language in mind.

Image
(Source: Haukku tekee kipeaa from Betonisaappaat)

1) "Last one in the pool is a rotten egg!"
2) "Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah"
3) "They accused me of being a bad egg."

N.B. A "bad egg" or morally depraved person is mätämuna while a literal "rotten egg" is mätä muna. Even though mätämuna "bad egg" is used in both frames, I think that the joke would work better through word play by using mätä muna "rotten egg" in the first frame, and then mätämuna "bad egg" in the last one.

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GERMAN

I haven't been doing as much with German as planned, and I haven't even touched any of my proper textbooks since earlier this month. I'm sure though that I'll make up for it somewhat once I'm revisiting Germany and Austria. I've just been making my way through the war diary of JG 301/302 and am now reading exploits in June 1944 after several of the units were transferred to Austria and Romania to intercept American air raids there and in the rest of the Balkans.

Image
(Source: Himmelsfarbe from xkcDE)

- "Mom, why's the sky blue?"
- "Rayleigh scattering! Short wavelengths are scattered much more strongly (proportional to 1 / Image4). Blue light dominates because it's so short.
- "Oh. Then why isn't the sky purple?"
- "Well, because, um... hmm.."
My hobby: Teaching the children of my scientist friends to ask tough questions.

---

ITALIAN

I've finished Chapter 8 in BBC Talk Italian 2 in addition to Chapter 17 in Italian Demystified. With the former, I learned some vocabulary related to medicine (including describing medical problems) while in the latter I reviewed the conditional mood and negation (including negative pronouns such as nessuno "nobody"). I've signed up for an evening class of Italian for intermediate students, and will find out soon enough how I'll fare.

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POLISH & SLOVAK

I just did some refreshing with Polski bez problemu! - zaawansowany and Colloquial Slovak. I've also exercised my writing abilities a bit by getting in contact with some friends in Poland and Czech Republic on Facebook to arrange my visits and catch up a little bit. I'm sure that I'll do even more of the latter when we finally see each other during my trip.

Image
(Source: Garfield | leniwy, głodny, psotny)

1) "My back is itchy."
3) "Better?" - "A little more on the left..."

Image
(Source: Doktor Pundor)

1) "I'm an enchanted princess."
2) "No one wants to kiss me."
3) "Don't leave! We know how to cure skin disorders!"
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Chung
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Posts: 529
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Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
STUDIES: Hungarian, Italian, Ukrainian
OTHER: Czech, German, Polish, Slovak
STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:31 pm

AZERI

I've finished the 3rd chapter in Elementary Azerbaijani, and the 3rd and 4th chapters in Azerbaijani for Beginners. In the former, I studied among other topics, the genitive and locative cases, the derivational suffixes -çi/-çı/-çu/-çü and -li/-lı/-lu/-lü, possessive suffixes, and imperative in 2nd person. In the latter, I learned the numerals, how to tell the time, all of the imperative forms, and all of the case endings. Needless to say, I've encountered a lot of new material, and if I weren't a false beginner with a certain background in Turkish, I would have thrown both books at the wall in frustration (especially Azerbaijani for Beginners). For anything marketed as a self-study course, I expect a commensurate amount of exercises to back up all of the new material presented. I'm glad that Elementary Azerbaijani offers review sections that are full of exercises after every three chapters, and so I have a bit of a chance to get some more practice. I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of the grammar that I've seen so far, not to mention all of the vocabulary.

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FINNISH

I've finished a few more exercises in Chapter 8 of Suomen Mestari 2 dealing with shopping and watched a few more videos on Suomitaskussa. I didn't do anything with Finnish while travelling.

Image
(Source: Nemi via Ilta-Sanomat)

1) "I have done things which cannot be spoken of... seen things which no one should see. My soul may have changed permanently."
2) "Does this mean that you cleaned the range hood?" - "Just hold me. "

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GERMAN

I've finished Chapter 4 of Menschen im Beruf Bewerbungstraining (A2+/B1) which dealt with CVs in the German-speaking world, and started Chapter 4 of Geschäftliche Begegnungen B1+ which begins with some vocabulary exercises involving tools and appliances. I've read some more entries in the war diary of JG 301/302 but frankly am getting a little bored of its repetitiveness to the point where I'm starting to read other things. While in Austria earlier this month, I picked up a copy of Till Eulenspiegel but won't start reading it until much later. I did read the first two stories, and while they weren't that difficult (I was definitely OK with their brevity), I still had to look up a couple of things in the dictionary. I've instead started reading an old translation of Nasrettin Hoca on Project Gutenberg, and despite its age, am finding it to be slightly easier going.

Image
(Source: Schlaftablette via Medi-Learn Cartoons)

"Sorry to wake you but you still need to take your sleeping pill!"

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ITALIAN

I've finished Chapters 9 and 10 in BBC Talk Italian 2 which dealt with invitations and food respectively and with that have finished that course. I also have two more chapters to go in Italian Demystified after having worked through chapter 18 in Italian Demystified which meant going over again object pronouns. I'm thinking about working more on speaking and starting to incorporate some authentic material, and so am looking at getting back to DLI Headstart Italian (I haven't mentioned it in my log, but have already done the first 4 modules over the past few months while going to and from work, and have one more to go) and starting work with my copy of Easy Italian Reader.

So far I kind of like my experience with the Italian class for intermediate students as the teacher is fairly good, although I feel a little weird since the other students' linguistic backgrounds are far different from mine. Certainly all of the self-study up to now has been helpful.

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POLISH & SLOVAK

With the end of the trip, I've put Polish and Slovak aside so that I can keep working on the other languages at the desired level. I did speak more Polish than I had expected, while the opposite happened with Slovak. I just hope that my knowledge doesn't deteriorate that much over the coming months.

Image
(Source: Piesek via Andrzej rysuje)

"Did the dog get a shot?"* - "What are you talking about, sir?! That could have caused autism in him."

*A closer translation is: "Was the doggy vaccinated?"

Image
(Source: Jožinko via Slovak Komiks Database)

1) "Aha! A four-leafed clover!"
2) "Yeah! A horseshoe!"
3) "And even a little pig! This year I'll get nothing but..."**
4) "...good luck!"**

** I've translated these panels quite freely. A closer translation is: "This year I won't be missing anything anymore for good luck!".
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Chung
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Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
STUDIES: Hungarian, Italian, Ukrainian
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STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:34 am

AZERI

I've finished the first review chapter and Chapter 4 in Elementary Azerbaijani and reread the material covered so far in the first four chapters of Azerbaijani for Beginners. In Elementary Azerbaijani, I did exercises reviewing the grammar introduced in the first three chapters, and then studied the dative, negation, how to translate "to have", kinship terms, and using infinitive complements with istəmək "to want". I always find it at least mildly interesting to learn about kinship terms since the degree of lexicalization in kinship for other languages that I've studied often exceeds what English calls for. I think that I'll devote a future log entry comparing kinship terms from some of my target languages, past and present, to show better what I mean.

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FINNISH

I've done just a few more exercises on the partitive plural in Chapter 8 of Suomen Mestari 2 and watched a few videos on Suomitaskussa. I have to admit that Finnish has got a bit lost in the shuffle between Azeri and Italian. Azeri scratches my itch for the "exotic" or non-western European language in the rotation, while the sound of Italian (it must be the tendency for words to be vowel-final) sits as nicely on my ear as Finnish does without as much inflectional complexity. Azeri doesn't have consonant gradation, which means that I can often attach endings without remembering to change something in the stem (as in Turkish, attaching suffixes that begin with vowels to stems that end with -k, -p or -t sets off changes to those final consonants, but this is less involved than consonant gradation).

Image
(Source: Pöyrööt)*

1) "Do you know what instrument suits a plan for the near future?"
2) "Well, what?"
3) "A pian-o!"**

* These comics are in an Ostrobothnian subdialect (I'm quite sure that it's one of the South Ostrobothnian ones) and are a different challenge for me from reading comics in standard Finnish but extra rewarding if I can get the punch line after figuring out their speech bubbles. I find these harder to understand than Kiroileva siili which are also done in a similar Ostrobothnian subdialect when it comes to the lines of the main character, the swearing hedgehog.

** Pian "soon", pian o "soon - o" (play on words with piano)

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GERMAN

I did a few more exercises in Geschäftliche Begegnungen B1+ with vocabulary for tools and appliances and started relearning the passive. Somehow I'm still reading the war diary of JG 301/302 about their interceptions and dogfights in the summer of 1944 over Austria, southern Germany and Hungary. I've also read a few more stories in German translation of Nasrettin Hoca.

Image
(Source: Nichtlustig)

"You must be operated on quickly." - "I'd like a second opinion about that first." - "Get operated on." - "Well then..."

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ITALIAN

I've finished the last two chapters of Italian Demystified which had me study glielo and similar double pronouns, and comparatives and superlatives. I also worked on a couple of sections in the last module of DLI Headstart Italian which deals with telephone calls. In Easy Italian Reader I read the first two stories and did the accompanying exercises in McGraw-Hill's Language Lab. This reader is divided in three parts with the first being 20 short but contrived texts about an exchange student in Italy. The second part has 22 short texts on Italian history and culture. The last part has three short pieces of Italian fiction from the 20th century.

On the recommendation of my Italian teacher, I picked up the series Nuovo Progetto Italiano (3 vols.) and after comparing it with "Colloquial Italian 2" and "Teach Yourself Improve Your Italian", decided to go with it to review and eventually learn new stuff when I get to the second volume which is for B1 and B2. It's a bit like the Suomen Mestari series in that there are no explanations in English, but it's easy to adapt for self-study despite being meant for the classroom. There are answer keys (available on the publisher's website, in this case) and a supplementary workbook for each volume providing even more exercises beyond what's already given in the respective textbooks. The publisher also has a channel on YouTube with the videos for the A1-A2 volume (in addition to playlists of videos for other textbooks in its inventory), which aren't that taxing on me (it helps that they come with proper subtitles in Italian rather than auto-generated ones). Up to now I've completed the first chapter (out of 10) in the textbook, and will use the accompanying workbook only if I feel that I need extra practice on some topic introduced in the textbook. Looking at the table of contents in the first volume, I think that I'll just be doing a lot of review since I've already encountered all of the grammar that it sets out to teach in Italian Demystified, BBC Talk Italian, and Painless Italian. Things do look a little more interesting with the second volume.
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Chung
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Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
STUDIES: Hungarian, Italian, Ukrainian
OTHER: Czech, German, Polish, Slovak
STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:53 am

AZERI

I've finished the Chapter 5 in each of Elementary Azerbaijani and Azerbaijani for Beginners. In Elementary Azerbaijani, I learned about the ablative and accusative cases, the buffer consonant -n-, telling the time, and how to translate "to like" and "need". These last items got me thinking because of the ways languages can express these concepts. I think that I'll have to devote another post to show my point better which would go along with that possible future post comparing kinship terminology between some of my target languages. In Azerbaijani for Beginners, I learned the comparative and superlative degrees, as well as how to translate certain English modal verbs (i.e. infixes -malı-/-məli for necessity, infixes -ası-/-əsi- for advisability, verb stem with dative suffix + conjugated form of bil- "to know"). That's a lot to deal with, and I'll have to reread a some more since even after doing the exercises, I don't feel that I got enough of a handle on things and wish that I could have got more practice.

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FINNISH

I've done just a few more exercises on the partitive plural in Chapter 8 of Suomen Mestari 2 and watched a few more videos on Suomitaskussa. I hate to admit it but my enthusiasm for Finnish is flagging. Being far from Finland, and lacking Finnish friends here are a buzzkill.

Image
(Source: Joskus sitä kaipaa luontoon via Office Animals)

1) "I miss nature."
2) "I would like to feel the presence of wild animals!"
3) "Look! There are fruit flies* nesting in my coffee cup!" - "Wow!"

*It still sticks in my mind: a fruit fly is banaanikärpänen "banana fly" in Finnish.

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GERMAN

I did a bunch of exercises in Geschäftliche Begegnungen B1+ with the passive, and am still reading the war diary of JG 301/302 about their activities in the summer of 1944. The book's tone has changed as it seems that it's at this time when the author, Willi Reschke, started combat duty and so writes of his experiences in the 1st person. It's definitely a lot harder on me too as I'm running into a greater variety of vocabulary and have been looking up more items in the dictionary. I've also read a few more stories in German translation of Nasrettin Hoca.

In my never-ending quest to work on vocabulary, I've started reading / working through Versprechen Sie Deutsch?, and set aside Hallo! Wortschatztraining B1 for now. Versprechen Sie Deutsch? is a guide on vocabulary usage meant for learners at B1 who want to avoid certain stumbling blocks when choosing words. It basically lists a pair of words or phrases which are often similar in meaning and/or form, and then explains the differences after showing them in a short example paragraph. There are 20 chapters each with a couple dozen pairs, and at the end of each chapter is a short set of exercises. I like the approach, and many of the illustrative paragraphs are good for a chuckle.

Image
(Source: Ahoi polloi)

1) Christmas in Saxony
"Well, were you good, dear children?" - "Yes!"
2) "You damned little do-gooders!*" - "Aaaah!"

*This may be a little politically incorrect. Saxony is part of the former East Germany with the AfD party drawing a lot of its support from the area. Supporters of the party like to deride those who are pro-migrant as Gutmenschen "do-gooders".

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ITALIAN

In Easy Italian Reader I read the third and fourth stories and did the accompanying exercises in McGraw-Hill's Language Lab. It's nothing exciting, but it's nice to work on something light and get a small buzz of accomplishment.

I've completed the second chapter of Nuovo Progetto Italiano 1 and am already deep in the third chapter. It's been just review (e.g. basic prepositions, articulated prepositions, present tense), but that's OK with me. I found to my disappointment that the YouTube channel of the publisher doesn't have all of the videos for the series, and so I'll have to fool around with the included DVD (I didn't get the DVD for vol. 2, unfortunately, and would order it from the publisher if I'd want it badly enough since it's badly overpriced on Amazon). Like anything from Europe, it's on Region 2 and PAL, which means for me that I'd need to use my laptop to watch the videos. Unfortunately, I'm not even keen on that as I'd then need to use one of the 5 region switches on my laptop to play the DVD. Damned DRM.

I did find though that the publisher's channel has the videos for Progetto italiano Junior 1 which aren't bad even though they're meant for foreign teenagers at A1. Almost all of these videos have their transcripts as subtitles rather than auto-generated ones so I can then follow along in case my ears miss something. There're also the clips for Progetto italiano Junior 2 (A2) and Progetto italiano Junior 3 (B1) which also include the transcripts as subtitles.

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MISCELLANEOUS

Via the Turkmen study group on Unilang, I found out that the audio for the Peace Corps "Turkmen Language Competencies" is available for download via LangMedia. If I weren't studying Azeri, this would have been a good nudge for me to restart Turkmen (despite the lisp).

The Mari Web Project at the University of Vienna has released the textbook Reading Hill Mari Through Meadow Mari. Working with this book would be something like another "hairy goal" for me as Solfrid Cristin described it. If only I would finish Оҥай марий йылме first...
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Chung
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Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
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STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:21 am

AZERI

I've finished Chapter 6 in Azerbaijani for Beginners and am still working through Chapter 6 of Elementary Azerbaijani. In the first book, I learned among other things about the indicative past (-di / -dı / -du / -dü) and the reported past (-miş / -mış / -muş / -müş). I find it interesting that it doubles as a way to mark an observed past action (as opposed to a reported one) that is relevant to the present in the speaker's mind. In other words, it then corresponds to the present perfect in English as in "I have seen...". I find it also interesting that Azeri marks the indicative past continuous by combining the present tense suffix (-(y)ir etc.) with the indicative past suffix (-di etc.), while the past perfect comes about by combining the reported past tense suffix (-miş etc.) with the indicative past suffix (-di etc.). This last tense refers to an action in the past that began before a second one in the same sentence, but it seems that based on the scanty explanation I get, the veracity isn't that important. I'm left to gather that this action in the distant past may or may not have been observed by the speaker (this makes sense to me when telling a story and you need to distinguish between two actions in the past to convey the desired sequence, but it's not important to signal to the listener that you the narrator witnessed the story's events or not).

- gözləyirəm "I wait, I am waiting" (fact ~ present continuous indicative or present simple indicative)
- gözlədim "I waited" (fact ~ simple past indicative)
- gözləyirdim "I was waiting" (fact ~ past continuous indicative)
- gözləmişəm "I have waited" (fact ~ present perfect indicative); "I waited [supposedly, so they say]" (not necessarily fact ~ past reported)
- gözləmişdim "I had waited" (fact ~ past perfect indicative)

In Elementary Azerbaijani I've so far learned the suffix -ca / -cə used in derivatives denoting languages (e.g. azərbaycanca "Azer(baijan)i (language)" vs. azərbaycan dili "Azer(baijan)i language") and the simple past tense suffix -di etc. which I've helpfully seen already in the other book.

It took a while to get my head around these topics in Azeri, and I'm still only halfway through Chapter 6 of Elementary Azerbaijani. I'm thinking about consolidating my knowledge since I'm starting to feel the strain of needing to recall an inordinate amount of concepts and words in this language without sufficient practice. See MISCELLANEOUS.

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FINNISH

I'm still puttering away in Chapter 8 of Suomen Mestari 2 with fill-in-the-blank exercises in the partitive plural and genitive plural. I was pleasantly surprised how many answers I got right by thinking quickly about what sounds "right" or looks familiar based on what I think I've used or seen (e.g. putting down suomalaisten for genitive plural of suomalainen "Finnish" sounded correct to me rather than *suomalaisien even though the partitive plural is suomalaisia). I didn't watch any videos on Suomitaskussa, but did watch a few episodes of Learn Finnish with Comedy with English subtitles on. A change of pace can be nice.

Image
(Source: Wumo via Helsingin Sanomat)

- The truth about a famous blunder.
"I did say that part J should have been put as the bottom-most part."

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GERMAN

I did some vocabulary exercises (pertaining to materials and units of measurement) in Chapter 4 of Geschäftliche Begegnungen B1+ and read a few more entries in the war diary of JG 301/302. It's the endless summer of 1944. I also started Chapter 5 of Menschen im Beruf - Bewerbungstraining (A2+/B1) which deals with cover letters when applying for a job. I did a couple of exercises and read unexciting stuff about the conventions in the German-speaking world for this kind of letter. It's not that different from what we do in English.

I've finished Chapter 2 of Versprechen Sie Deutsch? and am studying Chapter 3. I need to brush up my grasp of da-Korrelate (e.g. dabei, daran, darum etc.) as there are several of them in this chapter and it's been a while since I studied them formally.

Image
(Source: Harmlos, Nix und guter Zweck via Thomas Siemensen)

1) "Doctor, I'm a nothing*." - "I understand."
2) "Clear case of an inferiority complex."
3) "But not to worry, such a thing is treatable."
4) "I hardly believe so, Doctor"
5) "A male mermaid* can only be called a 'merman*'."

*nix informal or eye-dialect variant of nichts "nothing"; das Nix eye-dialect variant of das Nichts "void; nothingness"; der Nix "merman"; die Nixe "mermaid"

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ITALIAN

In Easy Italian Reader I read the first review chapter as well as the fifth and sixth stories, and did the accompanying exercises in McGraw-Hill's Language Lab.

I've finished Chapter 3 of Nuovo Progetto Italiano 1 and have begun Chapter 4 which promises to introduce the perfect tense (passato prossimo) based on how often I heard the tense being used in the chapter's introductory dialogue.

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MISCELLANEOUS

I got a few more tidbits related to resources *rubs hands*.

In my quest to consolidate certain points in Azeri (I'm especially bothered these days by interrogatives - particularly necə "how", neçə "how many", neçəyə "how much" and nəçi "what occupation" because of how similar they still sound to me - as well as expressing clock time. Telling the time is easy enough, but I still can't get a straight answer in my books or the internet in how to say when something happens at a time that's not at the top of the hour), I stumbled upon the DLI's Familiarization Course for Azeri. I like that it has audio in .mp3 and answers (albeit for only about half of the exercises). I snagged the Familiarization Courses for Kazakh and Uzbek a while ago through other websites, and it seems that Speakeasy got wind of these a few years ago. In addition to the Azeri course, I found an official-looking source for the Kazakh, Turkish, Turkmen, and Uzbek versions. Of passing interest, I also found the Polish and Tajik versions although I'm past the level of the Polish course, and God knows if I'll have enough left in the tank for Tajik, my interest in Central Asia notwithstanding.

I also scored a couple of dictionaries for my collection, but they were ones that I had never thought about until very recently. I remembered this discussion about advanced dictionaries, and in particular how the Collins COBUILD Advanced Learner's Dictionary is valuable to ESL students because of how its example sentences are idiomatic and describe the headword. After a bit of trawling, I found good bilingual dictionaries to English for native speakers of German and Italian for cheap on Amazon and ordered them. They're a little similar to Langenscheidt's Grund- und Aufbauwortschatz because of the idiomatic example sentence in the target language beside every headword, but what I just got cover more (especially the German dictionary)

The Das große Oxford Wörterbuch is meant for German students at B1 to C1 in English, and the beauty of this dictionary is not just the solid coverage (175,000 entries, 230,000 translations) but in how many idiomatic example sentences/phrases accompany most headwords. In the German-English section, it lacks marking for gender or part of speech (not needed for a German reader), yet it still provides plenty of example sentences in German with their English translation, in addition to clues to the German-speaker about English phrasal verbs or idioms using that headword either through an example sentence or cross reference to another head word. I've come to prefer this dictionary to my copy of the giant Collins two-way English<>German dictionary when I want to see idiomatic example sentences in German with English translations (or vice-versa) instead of just phrases or isolated translations of a headword subdivided by nuances. In other words, that big Collins dictionary has fewer example sentences to give space to include about twice as many headwords and translations (350,000 headwords, 500,000 translations). There's always that trade-off.

The Dizionario Oxford Study per Studenti d'Inglese is a much smaller two-way dictionary meant for ESL students from Italy but is designed similarly to the German dictionary above. Because it's smaller, it has fewer example sentences overall but for its size still comes with a fair number of idiomatic example sentences in English and their Italian counterparts as well as clues about nuances.

As an example here are the respective entries for "shopping"

Das große Oxford Wörterbuch wrote:
shop•ping /'ʃɒpɪŋ; AmE ˈʃɑ:p-/ Nomen [U] 1 Einkaufen ◊ (BrE) do the shopping einkaufen gehen ◊ the weekly shopping der wöchentliche Einkauf 2 (bes BrE) Einkäufe


Dizionario Oxford Study per Studenti d'Inglese wrote:
shopping /'ʃɒpɪŋ/ s spesa, compere: to do the shopping fare la spesa ◊ She's gone shopping. È andata a fare compere. ◊ shopping bag/trolley borsa/carrello per la spesa


...and here is an example from each of the German-English and Italian-English section respectively

Das große Oxford Wörterbuch wrote:
letztlich in the end ◊ Der Umweg dauerte letztlich nur fünf Minuten länger. In the end, the detour only took five minutes longer.


Dizionario Oxford Study per Studenti d'Inglese wrote:
concetto sm 1 (idea) concept: il ~ di democrazia the concept of democracy 2 (opinione) opinion: Non so che ~ tu abbia di me. I don't know what you think of me.


The lesson here is that bilingual dictionaries (especially in FIGS) meant for ESL students may be unexpectedly useful to the learner who is a native or fluent user of English but learning that (foreign) language because of how these dictionaries have to account for the foreign user's need to see idiomatic sentences in English and their counterpart in the foreign language. A dictionary with 350,000 headwords might be more useful to a translator who needs to know what an obscure word could mean (or how one may translate some obscure word from English to another language) rather than a student who often needs to know how to use some unfamiliar word (that's not necessarily as obscure as what a translator would encounter) as much as understanding it in isolation. In other words, the marginal benefit to me in having a bilingual dictionary with 350,000 headwords instead of 175,000 headwords isn't that great when the bilingual dictionary with 175,000 headwords often shows explicitly how I could use some word.
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:43 am

I've taken some time to put down notes about kinship vocabulary in some of my target languages, past and present, which is something that I had mentioned here as a topic that always piques my interest.

The first table compares some basic kinship terms (i.e. no older than the grandparents, no younger than the grandchildren, and no step-relatives) while the second table compares some basic kinship terms for relatives who don't descend from ego but may share a common set of grandparents. This means that the second table is limited to siblings of ego's parents (i.e. aunts and uncles by blood), their children (i.e. first cousins), the children of ego's siblings (i.e. nieces and nephews), and the "basic" in-laws (e.g. the daughter-in-law is in, but not her parents). If I would have extended the coverage of aunt and uncle to people who married the siblings of ego's parents, the list then would have become unwieldy for my taste. I also overlooked certain target languages such as Estonian, Northern Saami, and Korean since I'm afraid that their relatively elaborate conventions for kinship vocabulary would have made my task even more arduous.

I compiled these lists drawing on all of the textbooks and dictionaries at my disposal, as well as Wiktionary and Omniglot. Although these lists are not meant to be comprehensive, I included terms that I've learned or concluded to be standard or widely understood by native speakers. For reasons of space, I've had to omit dialectal or colloquial usages. I do not guarantee full accuracy, and anyone is free to suggest corrections.

As I consulted my sources, English seems rather plain or predictable to me by recycling certain kinship terms and modifying them with "regular" adjectives or creating collocations (e.g. "aunt" ~ "maternal aunt" ~ "paternal aunt" ~ "wife of the uncle"). In comparison and by way of example, Turkish tends to eschew modifiers for distinct terms instead (e.g. hala "paternal aunt", teyze "maternal aunt", yenge "wife of an uncle; wife of a brother, sister-in-law").

ENGLISHGERMANITALIANPOLISHSLOVAKFINNISHHUNGARIANAZERITURKISH
Iichiojajaminäénmənben
BROTHERBruderfratellobratbratvelifiútestvér / fivér (H1)qardaş (A1)erkek kardeş (T1)
SISTERSchwestersorellasiostrasestrasisar / siskolánytestvér / nővér (H2)bacıkız kardeş (T1)
SIBLINGGeschwister (G1)— (I1)— (P1)súrodenecsisarus (F1)testvérqardaş (A1)kardeş (T1)
OLDER BROTHERälterer Bruderfratello maggiorestarszy bratstarší bratvanhempi velibátyböyük qardaşabi / ağabey
YOUNGER BROTHERjüngerer Bruderfratello minoremłodszy bratmladší bratnuorempi veliöcsqardaş (A1)erkek kardeş (T1)
OLDER SISTERältere Schwestersorella maggiorestarsza siostrastaršia sestravanhempi siskonővérböyük bacıabla
YOUNGER SISTERjüngere Schwestersorella minoremłodsza siostramladšia sestranuorempi siskohúgbacıbacı / kız kardeş
FATHERVaterpadreojciecotecisäapaatababa
MOTHERMuttermadrematkamatkaäitianyaanaanne
PARENTElter (G2)genitorerodzicrodičvanhempi (F2)szülővalideynebeveyn
GRANDFATHERGroßvaternonnodziadekstarý otecisoisänagyapabababüyükbaba
GRANDMOTHERGroßmutternonnababciastará matkaisoäitinagyanyanənəbüyükanne
GRANDPARENTGroßelternteil— (I2)— (P2)starý rodičisovanhempi (F3)nagyszülő— (A2)— (T2)
CHILDKind— (I3)dzieckodieťalapsigyer(m)ekuşaqçocuk
DAUGHTERTochterfigliacórkadcératytärlányqızkız
SONSohnfigliosynsynpoikafiúoğuloğul
GRANDCHILDEnkelkind— (I4)wnuczę (P3)vnúčalapsenlapsiunokanəvətorun
GRANDDAUGHTEREnkelin / Enkeltochterla nipote (I5)wnuczkavnučkapojantytär / tyttärentytär (F4)lányunokanəvə (A3)kız torun
GRANDSONEnkel / Enkelsohnil nipote (I5)wnukvnukpojanpoika / tyttärenpoika (F5)fiúunokanəvə (A3)erkek torun
BOYFRIENDFreundragazzochłopakpriateľpoikaystävä (F6)barátoğlan dostuerkek arkadaş
GIRLFRIENDFreundinragazzadziewczynapriateľkatyttöystävä (F7)barátnőqız dostukız arkadaş
HUSBAND(Ehe)mannmaritomążmanžel / muž(avio)miesférjərkoca
SPOUSE— (G3)coniuge— (P4)— (S1)puolisoházastársyoldaş
WIFE(Ehe)fraumoglieżonamanželka / ženavaimofeleségarvadkarı

Notes
-G1 Geschwister (N) is rare but occurs more often in plural i.e. Geschwister - the same form as in singular (e.g. Die Geschwister feiern Weihnachten bei ihren Eltern. "The siblings are celebrating Christmas at their parents' home.").
-G2 Elter (M) is rare but occurs more often in plural i.e. Eltern (e.g. Meine Eltern kommen aus Bonn. "My parents come from Bonn.").
-G3 One may translate "spouse" with (Ehe)gatte (M) / (Ehe)gattin (F) but these terms still align with the spouse's natural gender.

-I1 One may translate "sibling" with congiunto (M) / congiunta (F) but these terms still align with the sibling's natural gender.
-I2 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a grandparent by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is common to think of grandparents as forming a pair or group, hence plural (i) nonni "(the) grandparents".
-I3 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a child by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is usual to use figli (plural of figlio "(male) child; son") to translate "children" (e.g. Quanti figli avete?. "How many children do you have?").
-I4 One may translate "grandchild" with il/un nipote (M) / la/una nipota (F) but these terms still align with the grandchild's natural gender.
-I5 In addition to meaning "grandson" and "granddaughter" respectively, il/un nipote (M) and la/una nipota (F) may also be translated respectively as "nephew" and "niece".

-P1 One may use the collective noun rodzeństwo "brothers and sisters" (e.g. Masz rodzeństwo? "Do you have siblings?").
-P2 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a grandparent by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is common to think of grandparents as forming a pair or group, hence plural dziadkowie "(the) grandparents".
-P3 Wnuczę (N) is rare but occurs more often in plural i.e. wnuczęta etc. (e.g. Bardzo się cieszę, gdy wnuczęta przyjdą nas odwiedzić. "I'm very happy when the grandchildren come to visit us.").
-P4 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a married person by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is common to think of a married person as part of a pair, hence the collective noun małżeństwo "(the) married couple".

-S1 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a married person by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is common to think of a married person as part of a pair, hence the collective noun manželia "(the) married couple".

-F1 Sisarus is rare in singular but occurs more often in plural i.e. sisarukset etc. (e.g. Kaikki sisarukset käyvät koulua. "All of the siblings are attending school.").
-F2 Vanhempi in singular is more likely to be interpreted as the adjective for "senior" but in plural i.e. vanhemmat etc. is usually interpreted as "parents" (e.g. Vanhemmat odottavat koulun ulkopuolella. "The parents are waiting outside the school.").
-F3 Isovanhempi in singular is rare but occurs more often in plural i.e. isovanhemmat etc. (e.g. Vuonna 1948 isovanhempieni onnistui muuttaa Saksaan. "In 1948 my grandparents managed to immigrate to Germany.").
-F4 Pojantytär "son's daughter", tyttärentytär "daughter's daughter".
-F5 Pojanpoika "son's son", tyttärenpoika "daughter's son".
-F6 One may use miesystävä instead of poikaystävä if a boyfriend is considered too old to be labelled the latter (especially true if he is older than 40).
-F7 One may use naisystävä instead of tyttöystävä if a girlfriend is considered too old to be labelled the latter (especially true if she is older than 40). Cf. English "ladyfriend".

-H1 fiútestvér / fivér as generic terms for "brother" are used less often outside officialdom than testvér. When the brother's age relative to the speaker is important, then báty or öcs is used as appropriate.
-H2 lánytestvér / nővér as generic terms for "sister" are used less often outside officialdom than testvér. When the sister's age relative to the speaker is important, then húg or nővér is used as appropriate.

-A1 One may use qardaş to refer to a younger brother or any sibling.
-A2 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a grandparent by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is common to think of grandparents as forming a pair or group, hence plural nənə və baba... "grandmother and grandfather...".
-A3 The gender-neutral nəvə "grandchild" is often used also to translate "granddaughter" and "grandson". If clarity is required, one may use qız nəvə and oğlan nəvə to express "granddaughter" and "grandson" respectively.

-T1 One may use kardeş to refer to any sibling, but may also use erkek kardeş or kız kardeş to make it clearer that one is referring to a brother or sister respectively (younger or otherwise).
-T2 In the absence of a specific gender-neutral term here, one often refers to a grandparent by the gendered term as appropriate. However, it is common to think of grandparents as forming a pair or group, hence plural büyükanne ve büyükbaba... "grandmother and grandfather...".

ENGLISHGERMANITALIANPOLISHSLOVAKFINNISHHUNGARIANAZERITURKISH
COUSINserkkuunokatestvérkuzen (T3)
FEMALE COUSINCousinecuginakuzynkasesternicaunokanéne / unokahúg / unokanővér (H3)bibiqızı / dayıqızı / əmiqızı / xalaqızı (A4)kuzin
MALE COUSINCousincuginokuzynbrat(r)anecunokabáty / unokafivér / unokaöcs (H3)bibioğlu / dayıoğlu / əmioğlu / xalaoğlu (A5)kuzen (T3)
AUNTTanteziaciocia / ciotkatetatäti(nagy)nénibibi (paternal) / xala (maternal)hala (paternal) / teyze (maternal)
UNCLEOnkelziowuj(ek) (P5)ujec / ujo (S2)eno (maternal) / setä (paternal)(nagy)bácsidayı (maternal) / əmi (paternal)amca (paternal) / dayı (maternal)
NEPHEWNeffeil nipote (I5)bratanek / siostrzeniec (P6)synovecsisarenpoika / veljenpoika (F8)unokaöcs (H4)bacı oğlu / qardaş oğlu (A6)yeğen (T4)
NIECENichtela nipote (I5)bratanica / siostrzenica (P7)netersisarentytär / veljentytär (F9)unokahúg (H4)bacı qızı / qardaş qızı (A7) yeğen (T4)
BROTHER-IN-LAWSchwagercognatoszwagieršvagorlankosógorqayın / yeznə (A8)kayın(birader)
DAUGHTER-IN-LAWSchwiegertochternuorasynowanevestaminiämenygəlingelin
FATHER-IN-LAWSchwiegervatersuoceroteśćsvokorappiapósqaynatakaynata / kayınbaba / kayınpeder
MOTHER-IN-LAWSchwiegermuttersuocerateściowasvokraanoppianyósqaynanakaynana / kayınvalide
SISTER-IN-LAWSchwägerincognataszwagierkašvagrinakälysógornőbaldızbaldız "wıfe's sister" / görümce "husband's sister"
SON-IN-LAWSchwiegersohngenerozięćzaťvävydamad / kürəkən / yeznə (A8)damat

Notes
-I5 In addition to meaning "nephew" and "niece" respectively, il/un nipote (M) and la/una nipota (F) may also be translated respectively as "grandson" and "granddaughter".

-P5 For some speakers, wuj(ek) denotes a maternal uncle or husband of an aunt, and stands in contrast to stryj(ek) which refers to a paternal uncle.
-P6 A nephew is identified as a son of a sibling. In this case, bratanek denotes a brother's son, while siostrzeniec denotes a sister's son.
-P7 A niece is identified as a daughter of a sibling. In this case, bratanica denotes' a brother's daughter, while siostrzenica denotes a sister's daughter.

-S2 For some speakers, ujec / ujo denotes a maternal uncle, and stands in contrast to strýc which refers to a paternal uncle.

-F8 A nephew is identified as a son of a sibling. In this case, sisarenpoika denotes a sister's son, while veljenpoika denotes a brother's son.
-F9 A niece is identified as a daughter of a sibling. In this case, sisarentytär denotes a sister's daughter, while veljentytär denotes a brother's daughter.

-H3 unokafivér "male cousin" and unokanővér "female cousin" do not signal age relative to the speaker while the other terms do. When relative age is important, then one may use: unokanéne "female cousin (who's older than the speaker)", unokahúg "female cousin (who's younger than the speaker)", unokabáty "male cousin (who's older than the speaker)", and unokaöcs "male cousin (who's younger than the speaker)" as needed.
-H4 In addition to meaning "nephew" and "niece", unokaöcs and unokahúg may also refer respectively to a male cousin and female cousin, both of whom are younger than the speaker.

-A4 A female cousin is identified as a daughter of an aunt or uncle. One uses bibiqızı "paternal uncle's daughter", dayıqızı "maternal uncle's daughter", əmiqızı "paternal aunt's daughter", and xalaqızı "maternal aunt's daughter" as needed.
-A5 A male cousin is identified as a son of an aunt or uncle. One uses bibioğlu "paternal uncle's son", dayıoğlu "maternal uncle's son", əmioğlu "paternal aunt's son", and xalaoğlu "maternal aunt's son" as needed.
-A6 A nephew is identified as a son of a sibling. One uses bacı oğlu "sister's son", and qardaş oğlu "brother's son" as needed.
-A7 A niece is identified as a daughter of a sibling. One uses bacı qızı "sister's daughter", and qardaş qızı "brother's daughter" as needed.
-A8 One may use yeznə to refer to either a brother-in-law or son-in-law.

-T3 One may use kuzen to translate "cousin" or "male cousin" as desired.
-T4 The variants erkek yeğen "nephew" and kız yeğen "niece" may be used to specify the gender of a sibling's child when necessary, although yeğen is a common way to denoting any nephew or niece.
Last edited by Chung on Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby stelingo » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:53 am

Just wanted to point out that the nominative plural of das Geschwister is die Geschwister, not Geschwistern. Eg, Hast du Geschwister?

https://www.verbformen.com/declension/nouns/Geschwister.htm
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Languages: SPEAKS: English*, French
STUDIES: Hungarian, Italian, Ukrainian
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STUDIED: Azeri, BCMS/SC, Estonian, Finnish, Korean, Latin, Northern Saami, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish
DABBLED: Bashkir, Chuvash, Crimean Tatar, Inari Saami, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Latvian, Lithuanian, Meadow Mari, Mongolian, Romanian, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, Uzbek
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:53 am

AZERI

I've finished Chapter 6 in Elementary Azerbaijani and in addition to the simple past tense, and -ca/-cə suffix for derivatives denoting languages, which I had mentioned in my previous log entry, I learned ordinal numers, and the days of the week, months, and seasons. I had a tough time working through this unit, and am looking forward to the upcoming review section in the book for Chapters 4 to 6, as well as reviewing with the Azeri Familiarization Course (especially when it comes to telling the time and reporting the time when something happens).

I've studied the dialogues of Chapter 7 in Azerbaijani for Beginners and can tell already that I'll be learning the future tense as signalled by the suffix -(y)acaq / -(y)əcək (cognate with Turkish -(y)acak / -(y)ecek).

---

FINNISH

I'm still deep in Chapter 8 of Suomen Mestari 2 but know that I'm getting closer to the end of the book as this is the last chapter. I'm still doing those exercises for genitive and partitive plural and feel that I don't have the declensions sufficiently under control for a few word classes (e.g. astia "dish", lyhyt "short", soitin "musical instrument"). I did some drills in Suomea, ole hyvä! on the subject but still need more.

I watched a few videos of Suomitaskussa and Learn Finnish with Comedy. I didn't learn that much watching them, but I was just craving something in the language other than grammar exercises.

Image
(Source: Harald Hirmuinen via Helsingin Sanomat)

- "We're really lost." - "It's snowing so hard that a guy can't see ahead."
- "Hey, the blizzard looks like it's letting up!" - "Could it be a sign?" Santa's* Workshop 500 m
- "Santa Claus*, hey! Could we still get a ride home tonight?"
- "Of course. Hop in the sleigh unless it's a problem for you guys that we'll stop several thousand times on the way."
- "But there's as much gingerbread and mulled wine available as your belly can take!"
- Merry Christmas!

* In Finland, one speaks of Joulupukki "Christmas goat" instead of Santa Claus.

---

GERMAN

I finished Chapter 3 of Versprechen Sie Deutsch? and have been making a list for myself of those tricky da-compounds using my handy-dandy copy of Das große Oxford Wörterbuch which I mentioned in my last log entry. I'm really liking those example sentences illustrating the nuances of these words as they sometimes have idiomatic uses that elude neat translations to English.

I've also got deeper in cover letters in Chapter 5 of Menschen im Beruf - Bewerbungstraining (A2+/B1) and see that I'll be reviewing adjectival endings in the next subsection of Chapter 4 in Geschäftliche Begegnungen B1+.

Image
(Source: Ruthe.de)

- "Why are they decorating the toilet?"

---

ITALIAN

I read the 7th, 8th and 9th stories in Easy Italian Reader, and did the accompanying exercises in McGraw-Hill's Language Lab.

I've finished Chapter 4 of Nuovo Progetto Italiano 1 and have started Chapter 5. Even my language studies fit the season since the chapter's opening dialogue involves a couple of guys talking about their plans for Christmas and New Year's. The link to one of the main grammar points in the chapter is clear though - future tense.

---

MISCELLANEOUS

In the spirit of giving, I have more links to pass on even though most of them don't involve my current target languages.

I recently stumbled on Digitális Tankönyvtár "Digital Textbook Library" which began in 2005 as a non-profit project supported by the Hungarian Ministry of Education and Culture to provide electronic copies of textbooks, monographs, and journals. Since that time, some publishers have made their books available for free downloading on the site. Of interest to me (and probably anyone studying Hungarian) are the following published by Tinta:

- Ellentétes jelentésű szavak adatbázisa (Database of antonyms)
- Etimológai szótár (Etymological dictionary)
- Idegenszó-tár (Stock of foreign words)
- Magyar igei vonzatszótár (Dictionary of complements to Hungarian verbs)
- Magyar szókapcsolatok, kollokációk adatbázisa (Database of Hungarian collocations)
- Magyar szólások, közmondások adatbázisa (Database of Hungarian sayings and proverbs)
- Magyar tájszavak és népies lexikai elemek adatbázisa (Database of Hungarian dialectal and rural lexcial elements)
- Magyar értelmező szótár diákoknak - Szómagyarázatok példamondatokkal (Hungarian Explanatory Dictionary for students - definitions with example sentences)
- Szinonimák, rokon értelmű szavak adatbázisa (Database of synonyms and words of similar meanings)
- Értelmező szótár+ (Explanatory dictionary - it's essentially a much larger version of the the explanatory dictionary for students listed above. If an intermediate or advanced student of Hungarian needs just one monolingual dictionary, this is it.)
- Ötnyelvű párhuzamos szó gyakorisági adatbázis (Pentalingual lexical database of 6000 words sorted by frequency - Hungarian headwords with translations to English, French, German and Spanish).

All of these books are downloadable in .pdf and .epub, in addition to being readable on the site. Even though all of these books are in Hungarian, they still can be valuable even for someone whose Hungarian is at a basic level. The full explanatory dictionary is fantastic because almost every headword has hints about inflection (this is especially useful when you deal with nouns with fleeting -e- or need to make sure if the 3rd person singular possessive is -ja/-je or -a/-e) and at least one example sentence for every nuance or meaning of that headword. What's more is that each headword shows synonyms linked as required to the various nuances or meanings of the headword, a note on etymology, and sometimes even antonyms. The dictionaries for collocations and verb complements are quite useful, although the latter takes a bit of time to figure out since the editors use a cryptic shorthand to show which case or complement a verb governs. Of course, Zaicz's etymological dictionary is very welcome on my hard drive even though I already have a larger one edited by Benkő.

To look for anything in this digital library, click on Böngészés "Search" and as of the moment I post this there are 3819 results in Könyvek "Books" and 5879 results in Folyóiratok "Journals" with each category divided again into subjects/disciplines.

I also came upon an electronic repository of schoolbooks for Azeri children. My Azeri is still much too poor to make much use of the books but then these are meant for classrooms and so have a teacher's guidance in mind. However, I did download this book on Azeri for 2nd graders since I think that I can get something out of the simple texts and poems which I can read with the help of a dictionary. It also has some explanations and instructions in Russian - no doubt meant for children who may be more comfortable with Russian than Azeri. I can't see myself getting a lot out of the exercises since there's no answer key and some of them require a partner or the teacher. However, I find these books a little amusing to leaf through since it seems that illustrators and authors of children's schoolbooks from the former USSR went to the same schools. The illustrations and style of these Azeri books remind me of what I've seen in these ones for the Hungarian minority in Ukraine and this one for Meadow Mari which is an adaptation of a textbook published in Russian.
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:25 am

As I mentioned in this post, I've been struck by the ways how my target languages, past and present, can translate "to like". The latest curveball came from Azeri as the considerations there in choosing the suitable verb are quite different from anything I can recall having encountered with the exception of Turkish. Here're some jottings for Azeri, Finnish, Hungarian and Turkish in this semantic field. These aren't comprehensive but just a rehashing of some comments in my notebooks in addition to answers that I got from other forums when it comes to translating "to like". As I was looking for more reference material for Azeri, I stumbled on a downloadable copy of a big Azeri-Russian dictionary hosted by Khazar University in Baku, Azerbaijan. Классно.

===

FINNISH

I made up all of the example sentences, but nuances were corroborated in pitää, tykätä, välittää etc. Are there big differences?

i) pitää "to like, be fond of" etc. (+ elative)
-Pidän sipseistä. "I like chips."
-Pidän hyvän dokumenttiohjelman katsomisesta. "I like / enjoy watching a good documentary."
-Mitä pidit elokuvasta? "How did you like the movie?"

This is the usual way to translate "to like" but with changes to case governance the verb takes on meanings other than "to like". (e.g. Minun pitäisi soittaa Marjolle. "I ought to call Marjo.", Pitäkää laukkuni, olkaa hyvä. "Hold my bag, please.")

ii) tykätä "to like, be fond of" etc. (+ elative)
- Luuletsä, et se tykkää musta? "D'ya think she likes me?"
- Mitä tykkäsitte konsertista? "How did you like the concert?"

This is an informal variant of pitää "to like".

iii) välittää "to like, be fond of; care about/for" (+ elative)
- Emme välitä oluesta. "We don't like beer." / "We don't care for beer."

From what I've gleaned, it seems more readily used instead to translate "to care for/about" instead of "to like" as in Välitän ympäristöstä ja sen hyvinvoinnista. "I care about the environment and its well-being."

HUNGARIAN

Unless otherwise indicated, all example sentences and comments are from szeret-, tetszik etc. What's the difference?

i) kedvel- "to like, be fond of" (+ accusative)
- Kedvelem Pétert. "I like Péter."

This often takes a person as a direct object. I gather that it'd sound unusual or unidiomatic with a thing as the complement.

ii) szeret- "to like, love" (+ accusative)
- Szeretem Katit. "I like Kati."; "I love Kati."
- Szeretem Pétert. "I like Péter."; "I love Péter."
- Szeretem a rövid szoknyákat, de ez nem tetszik. "I like short skirts (in general), but I don't like this (particular one)."
- Szeretem a sült krumplit. "I like / love french fries." (truth or general statement)
- Szeretsz zongorázni vagy megszeretnél tanulni? "Do you like to play the piano or would you like to learn (to do so)?"

When the object of (dis)like is a person, it can be translated as "to like" or "to love" depending on the context, and suggests that the feeling is more deeply-seated or longstanding than liking someone at first glance as indicated by tetszik. I gather that a clearer way to distinguish between liking and loving someone is to use here szeret- to translate "(to) love" and kedvel- to translate "(to) like / be fond of". When the direct object is a thing, concept or activity, using szeret- signals that the object of (dis)like is part of a general truth for the subject. When szeret- takes an infinitive complement, it translates "to like to do something/an activity".

iii) ízlik "to taste (good)" ~ "to like (a certain dish at the moment of speaking)"
- Ízlik ez a sült krumpli. "I like these french fries (as opposed to those made by others, or those other times when I've been served french fries)." (closer translation: "This fried potato tastes good (for me).")

This would translate one's (dis)like of food or drink at a particular moment rather than a general truth.

iv) tetszik neki "to like, be appealing to sb" (cf. German gefallen, Italian piacere, Polish podobać się, Slovak páčiť sa)
- 7 női jel, hogy a férfi tetszik neki. "7 signs from a woman that she likes a man."
- Levágattam a hajam és nem tetszik. Mit tegyek? "I had my hair cut and don't like it. What should I do?"
- Michelisznek tetszik az új kocsi. "Michelisz likes the (his) new car." (closer translation: "The new car pleases Michelisz.").

This translates "to like" best when it involves (dis)liking a physical trait or characteristic as well as liking something/someone based on a first impression.

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AZERI

Many example sentences are from Öztopçu's Elementary Azerbaijani, Azərbaycanca rusca lüğət I-IV (Azeri-Russian Dictionary - 4 volumes), and articles with a clickable link. Comments and additional example sentences are from "bəyənmək", "xoşlamaq", "xoşlanmaq" etc. They can't all be synonyms, can they?

i) bəyənmək "to like; approve of" (+ definite direct object)
- Mən də müəllimin sözlərini bəyəndim. "I too liked / approved of the teacher's comments."
- Parçanın rəngini bəyəndi. "He/She liked the colour of the fabric."
- Ronaldonu Messidən daha çox bəyənirəm. "I like Ronaldo much more than Messi."
- Mən Saranı bəyənirəm. "I like Sara." (because of her personality, voice, hairstyle, etc.)

It seems to refer to liking something based on an impression as well as showing admiration for someone, and so doesn't signal much in the way of affection, romance or physical attraction.

ii) sevmək "to like; love" (+ definite direct object)
- Roman oxumağı sevmirsiniz? "Don't you like to read novels?"
- Basketbol oynamağı sevirsənmi? "Do you like to play basketball?"
- De ki, məni sevirsən! "Tell me you love me!"

When expressing love (romantic or platonic) for someone, sevmək is the usual verb to use. It seems to be a frequent way for expressing how one likes to do something, but appears substitutable with xoşlamaq (q.v.).

iii) xoşlamaq "to like; sympathize with; choose" (+ direct object regardless of definiteness)
- Siz isti çay xoşlayırsınız? "Do you like hot tea?"
- Biz hamımız Amerikan kinolarını xoşlayırıq. "We all like American movies."
- Uşaqlar nağılı xoşlayırlar. "Children like a story."
- O, səhərlər gəzməyi xoşlayır. "He/She likes to take a walk in the morning."
- Ən çox hansı kitabları oxumağı xoşlayırsan? "Which books do you most like to read?"
- Mən muğamı çox xoşlayıram. "I like muğam very much."
- O, Nigarı xoşlayır. "He/She sympathizes with Nigar."
- Mən bu almaları xoşlamışam. "I have chosen these apples."

When translating "to like", this verb seems to imply that one (dis)likes something (including an activity) because of experience rather than an impression (which is covered by bəyənmək (q.v.)).

iv) xoşlanmaq "to like, enjoy, take pleasure in; be satisfied with" (+ ablative)
- Ramiz konsertdən çox xoşlanmadı. "Ramiz did not like the concert that much."
- Təcrübəmdən xoşlandım. "I enjoyed my experience."
- Bu vəziyyətdən xoşlandı. "I was satisfied with this situation."

This appears to be best used to signal how an experience or event is received as in "Do you like it [e.g. the show]?"

v) xoş- gəlmək "to like, appeal to sb, please sb" (xoş + possessive suffix; complement takes ablative)
- (Mənim) bu kitabdan çox xoşum gəlmir. "I don't like this book very much."
- (Mənim) qızılgüldən xoşum gəlir. "I like roses."
- Mənim muğamdan çox xoşum gəlir. "I like muğam very much."
- Mənim Saradan xoşum gəlir. "I like Sara." (because I think she's cute/hot, and I'd love to get to know her better).
- Hansı musiqidən xoşun gəlir? "What kind of music do you like?"

This is an unusual construction for me as it's expressing what one (dis)likes as "one's pleasure comes from...". Apart from that it goes beyond bəyənmək in that it can signal liking someone or something either because of experience (i.e. several encounters) or an impression (i.e. one encounter). Furthermore, it may also signal physical attraction when the complement is a person.

vi) xoş- gəlmək "to like, appeal to sb, please sb" (xoş + possessive suffix + dative)
- (Mənim) bu kitab çox xoşuma gəlmir. "I don't like this book very much."
- (Mənim) qızılgül xoşuma gəlir. "I like roses."
- Hansı musiqi xoşuna gəlir? "What kind of music do you like?"

This comes off as a variant for v) but is still a little unusual for me as it translates literally as "sg comes to one's pleasure".

TURKISH

After digging up the variants, I ran them by some Turks and stumbled on this thread in Turkishclass.com. Unless otherwise indicated, all of the example sentences are from Öztopçu's Elementary Turkish: Volume I.

i) beğenmek "to like; enjoy; appreciate" (+ definite direct object)
- Bu ders kitabını pek beğenmiyorum. "I don't like this textbook that much."
- Sezen Aksu yeni şarkısını çok beğenmiyorum. "I really like Sezen Aksu's new song."

Beğenmek is a common way to translate "to like" and has the nuances that my feelings are based more on admiration/respect than emotion. The complements of the verb are people or objects rather than infinitives (e.g. *Okumak beğeniyorum or *Okumayı beğeniyorum to translate "I like to read / I like reading." are unidiomatic).

ii) hoşlanmak "to like, enjoy, take pleasure in" (+ ablative)
- Hasan konserden çok hoşlanmadı. "Hasan didn't like the concert that much."
- Ne tür müzikten hoşlanıyorsunuz? "What kind of music do you like?"
- Dans etmekten hoşlanırım. "I enjoy dancing." / "I like to dance."

Hoşlanmak emphasizes the emotional effect on the performer compared to beğenmek. When complemented by a person, it gives off more of the sense that one is smitten with that person instead of admiring or respecting that person (e.g. "I like you (because you're wise)" versus "I like you (because you make me feel good)"). When the complement is an object or activity (as signalled by an infinitive), then it hints that someone (dis)likes something because of its effect on that person's emotions rather than some characteristic about the complement (e.g."I like this activity/thing (because it makes me feel fulfilled, conjures up warm fuzzies") etc.). Lastly, hoşlanmak is not be used as often as beğenmek and I presume that this is true because it evokes that deeper connection between the subject and object which is absent when using beğenmek.

iii) hoş- gitmek "to like, enjoy; please, provide enjoyment" (hoş + possessive suffix + dative)
- Yeşil elbisen çok hoşuma gidiyor. "I like your green dress very much."
- Yağmurlu havada yürümek hoşuma gitti. "I liked walking in rainy weather."
- Dans etmek hoşuma gider. "I enjoy dancing." / "I like to dance."

This is meant to express (dis)like of an object or activity rather than a person, and is a little unusual for me since it translates to my English brain as "to go to one's pleasure". When thought of as a way to to translate "to please" or "to provide enjoyment" it overlaps with hoşlanmak since it underlines the emotional effect of what one (dis)likes, but again it holds for objects or activity. I'm guessing that when complemented by a person, using hoşu- gitmek instead of hoşlanmak sounds almost as if we're talking about a comedian or entertainer because we connect an emotionally-laden form of (dis)liking with that person's activities.

iv) sevmek "to like; love" (+ definite direct object)
- Roman okumayı seviyor musunuz? "Do you like reading novels?"
- İstanbul'u çok seviyorum. "I like Istanbul very much."

This is the usual verb to translate "to love" (romantic or platonic) but when complemented by an infinitive becomes a common way to translate "to like to do something". If complemented by a thing, then it can be translated as "to like" as with beğenmek.

===

Maybe in the near future I'll post a similar but probably more accessible comparison involving German, Italian, Polish, and Slovak.
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Re: Chung at work / Chung pri práci / Chung työn touhussa

Postby Chung » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:35 am

AZERI

I finished working on Units 1 to 5 in Azeri Familiarization Course to review the present tense, numbers and some basic vocabulary which I felt I was having trouble recalling while working through Azerbaijani for Beginners and Elementary Azerbaijani. I think that I'll do Units 6 to 10 for more review, even though that'd affect my rhythm of working with my main Azeri textbooks.

I've finished Chapter 7 in Azerbaijani for Beginners and started the same chapter in Elementary Azerbaijani. In the former, I studied the definite future -(y)acaq / -(y)əcək, indefinite future -ar / -ər, negative pronouns, and got introduced to postpositions. In the latter, I've been introduced also to postpositions but need to do some more work to be able to recall them reliably. While doing some of the book's exercises on the subject, I kept thinking about Turkish postpositions (which sometimes are very similar to Azeri ones) or getting initial mental blocks and recalling Finnish or Hungarian ones. Later in the chapter, I am to learn about directions and review the past and present tenses in negated questions.

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FINNISH

I've finally finished Suomen Mestari 2 by completing the remaining exercises in Chapter 8 on plural declensions and some on case governance of certain verbs. I'm thinking about taking a breather from Finnish for a bit to spread the time between three languages instead of four. I could use a little more time for German, but know that I can't be off for too long from Finnish otherwise I'll forget too much.

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(Source: Viivi ja Wagner via Etelä-Suomen Sanomat)

1) "I let the grass grow around our apartment."
2) "Now you can walk around barefoot."
3) "Watch out for ticks and adders."

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GERMAN

I finished Chapter 4 of Versprechen Sie Deutsch? and have finished typing up a list of almost 40 pages comprising da-compounds (including verbs using these compounds as the prefix) bulked up by example sentences pulled mainly from Duden online. DWDS, and Das große Oxford Wörterbuch.

It was a helpful but time-consuming exercise by forcing me to look things up and study example sentences. I now have a somewhat better idea of the nuances signalled by da-compounds and learned several idiomatic uses with them (especially with dabei and dafür).

During this time, I had nothing left in the tank for my regular textbooks of business German but that will change. I recently received a collection of the short stories of Der kleine Nick (i.e. German translation of Le petit Nicolas) and may very well start to read these instead of JG 301's war diary as the latter has become pretty monotonous for me. However, I still may sneak in reading a couple of tales of Nasreddin Hoca in German translation every week at the office to kill some time.

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(Source: Calvin & Hobbes via Moby.ch)

1) "Why do I have to go to school? Why can't I stay at home?"
2) "Why do I have to learn? Why can't I stay as I am? What sense does it make? Why does it have to be this way? Why can't it be different?"
3) "Life is full of mystery, isn't it? See you this afternoon!"
4) "Mom isn't very philosophical at 7 in the morning."

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ITALIAN

I read the 2nd review, 10th, 11th and 12th stories in Easy Italian Reader, and did the accompanying exercises in McGraw-Hill's Language Lab.

I finished Chapter 5, and am about 75% of the way through Chapter 6 in Nuovo Progetto Italiano 1. Nothing really new to speak of in the grammar (e.g. future tense, possessive pronouns), but it's nice to review vocabulary about the weather, and read a little bit about Italian cuisine - something which was never covered in the other courses that I've used apart from being restricted to names of dishes or ingredients in the dialogues set in a restaurant or grocery store.

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MISCELLANEOUS

I stumbled upon a bunch of placement tests by a private educational outfit in Slovakia, and for a laugh tried out the test for Slovak yesterday. Considering how long I've been off the language, I was a little surprised by my results as I got 62 out of 70 on the first try which leaves me at advanced (B2+ ?) by its reckoning. It was a small but unexpected victory, I suppose. Applying my usual discount to results from free tests online, I figure then that my reading ability and familiarity with grammar in Slovak are around B1 - squarely in intermediate. This does give me a little hope in that I'm not as far from fluency as I think, although I figure that I'd still need to cut back on the other languages in my rotation and go full throttle working on production in Slovak for up to a year, and hanging out with my Slovak friends weekly, if not daily.

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