Hundetier está estudiando español...

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Hundetier
Yellow Belt
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:12 pm
Languages: Deutsch, English, Español
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4873
x 86

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:17 pm

blaurebell wrote:
AndyMeg wrote:Yes, even as a native speaker. But I usually get the unknown meanings from the context.

It's not only the vocabulary, but the whole set of cultural assumptions though.

Very interesting topic, I'll have to investigate this further. You live and learn ... :D
I really thought, the differences consist only of small vocabulary and grammar changes, as it is with British and American English, or with German and Austrian. I wasn't aware of the amount of cultural influence and the diversity.
Perhaps I've never thought about that in detail before. It is so much cultural difference and change in habits sometimes within one country, so this much be true in greater extent for different countries.

blaurebell wrote:For example, if Austrians are in a group and one of them sees someone nobody else in the group knows, they will not say hi to that other person!
This is also new to me. I know many Austrians and never observed this behaviour. Funny! One of my ex-colleagues is Austrian, I know what to ask when I meet her the next time :mrgreen:

AndyMeg wrote:By the way, I'm from Colombia.

Cool, that's a country I want to visit some time because I heard so much about it's beautiful areas and because I am interested in the biodiversity and history. My dream is to do some language-learning. Some time ago I had a skype session with a tutor from Colombia (NuLengua), this inspired me to look for schools there, but it is almost to far away. Perhaps when I'll be retired.

AndyMeg wrote:Yes, it is an imitation of the american english accent. But the singers are actually from Colombia XD!

My Spanish isn't so good, that I can identify accents already, but this was obvious :D I hope to get better with that soon, it's surely only a matter of time and much, much input. I still have problems to identify some english accents, but my guesses tend to be right more often (at the beginning I could only differ between "understandable" and "not understandable").

AndyMeg wrote:Here is an example of the many different meanings that some slang words may have:
The Many Meanings of “Berraco”
Thanks for the link, the site is very interesting.
Last edited by Hundetier on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x

User avatar
Hundetier
Yellow Belt
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:12 pm
Languages: Deutsch, English, Español
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4873
x 86

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:37 pm

And now it's time for my weekly update aka confession...

RS module ten is finished. Doing this is a bit of a fight at the moment, but I can't get over my shadow and discard it. It was a birthday present given with the prediction "you won't finish this programme, but since you seem to be interested in it ..." I don't want to give in. At the beginning this course was good for me, because it forced me to pay attention to my pronunciation. But now I don't see any further improvement, I learn better with other products. But I fear, if I quit, it will be the first defeat in a row and prove as bad luck.

I started reading "La Senda de la Profecia" by David Eddings together with "Die Prophezeihung des Bauern". I spent almost three hours with the book, but managed only to get over the prologue. First I read a spanish paragraph, then the translation. Wondering about the differences I looked up some words and structures. And read the words again. Very slow and time consuming, but also an interesting way to look deeper in sentence constructions.
I only wonder, if I should better take the original instead of another translation for comparing to the spanish version.

: 110 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 24 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 70 / 150 main Audio Course, and some podcasts
: 3 / 116 Grammática del Uso de Español B
: 55 / 102 Paso a Paso: Los tiempos del pasado del indicativo
: 18 / 84 ELE vocabulario
: 37 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> nothing, I start over after Glossika, both is too much for me
: 32 / 58 Español en Episodios
: 10 / 22 Rocket Spanish
1 x

User avatar
blaurebell
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:24 pm
Location: Spain
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2+ passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
x 2217

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby blaurebell » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:33 pm

Hundetier wrote:I started reading "La Senda de la Profecia" by David Eddings together with "Die Prophezeihung des Bauern".


I think you have a different translation than I read as a child, mine was called "Kind der Prophezeiung". Is this one newer perhaps?

It really depends how strong your German is whether it's worthwhile to look at two translations. I'm currently doing Assimil Russian from French and just today I had to look up the French as well. First time in 15 lessons though, so I should be fine. Otherwise it's very good practice and a really good way to improve that other language too, because you start to really think about nuances of meaning. I still haven't started on the Russian version of this, since I'm still reading at a rate of 1h per page with simpler teaching texts! A couple of weeks and I'll be trying to catch up with you guys though!
1 x
: 20 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - В поисках камня
: 14325 / 35000 LWT Known

: 17 / 55 FSI Spanish Basic
: 100 / 116 GdUdE B
: 8 / 72 Duolingo reverse Spanish -> German

User avatar
Hundetier
Yellow Belt
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:12 pm
Languages: Deutsch, English, Español
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4873
x 86

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:44 pm

blaurebell wrote:I think you have a different translation than I read as a child, mine was called "Kind der Prophezeiung". Is this one newer perhaps?

Mine is the german first edition (Knaur paperback), Link to amazon, translated by Irmhild Hübner.

blaurebell wrote:It really depends how strong your German is whether it's worthwhile to look at two translations.

My german is ok, I have no problems reading it - it is my native language. :mrgreen:

blaurebell wrote:Otherwise it's very good practice and a really good way to improve that other language too, because you start to really think about nuances of meaning.

A point for using the original english book :mrgreen:
But you are absolutely right about that. I learnt or better I am learning a lot about English grammar and use of words by using english based materials for learning Spanish. It is really amazing, but it feels as if even my listening comprehension of american english improved after I started using diverse audiocourses to learn spanish. Last year I had massive problems understanding american english (it was only a big mumble for me), and now I am following an episode of Grey's Anatomy without paying full attention (while surfing the web).
1 x

User avatar
blaurebell
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:24 pm
Location: Spain
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2+ passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
x 2217

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby blaurebell » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:55 pm

Hundetier wrote:My german is ok, I have no problems reading it - it is my native language.


Hahaha, since you didn't have it listed, I didn't want to assume just from your forum name :lol:

You might find that a bit weird, but I actually prefer some originally German things in English translation - German philosophers for example. So many of them were just horrifically bad writers and the translation is just more readable than the original. Also, my German is actually a little rusty. I don't normally have a problem with reading it, but I pretty much only speak it once a week with my mum. She speaks it with a Russian accent and lots of Russian mannerisms, so I always have to pay attention that I don't pick up her mistakes. I have used English as my main language for 10 years now and it's noticeable. I can sound like a right moron when I have to throw in English vocabulary. I just can't remember the German words sometimes. Writing in German is also like pulling teeth now. Ah well, that's what happens when you live abroad.

If you still feel that your English is improving then I do recommend that you pick up the English original. Nothing quite like two-way translation to really get the nuances straight. And if things remain unclear you can always refer to your German translation. As for listening comprehension: the real challenge is to understand it when there is lots of background noise. My English occasionally failed me in loud pubs until I started watching series while cooking. And another challenge for you: Try watching Trainspotting! That had me shrugging my shoulders for the longest time. I'm still somewhat lost with the beginning of this scene after living in England for 4 years :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZyNLZZjMs But then, I don't understand any full on Bavarian or Swiss German either.

This is the Eddings translation I read: link to Amazon.
1 x
: 20 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - В поисках камня
: 14325 / 35000 LWT Known

: 17 / 55 FSI Spanish Basic
: 100 / 116 GdUdE B
: 8 / 72 Duolingo reverse Spanish -> German

User avatar
Hundetier
Yellow Belt
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:12 pm
Languages: Deutsch, English, Español
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4873
x 86

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:44 pm

blaurebell wrote:Hahaha, since you didn't have it listed, I didn't want to assume just from your forum name :lol:
I only noted the languages I am actually studying. Perhaps I should change it; but I don't know, what level for my english knowledge to state. Also I was certain that I could be identified as german by my name and the mistakes I make when writing in English :mrgreen: .

blaurebell wrote:You might find that a bit weird, but I actually prefer some originally German things in English translation - German philosophers for example. So many of them were just horrifically bad writers and the translation is just more readable than the original.
Weird - no, but interesting; and I can imagine it. I find the german way of describing things often a bit more complicated, and especially compared to the corresponding translation of a sentence, the english one is a lot shorter and straighter.

blaurebell wrote:I have used English as my main language for 10 years now and it's noticeable. I can sound like a right moron when I have to throw in English vocabulary. I just can't remember the German words sometimes. Writing in German is also like pulling teeth now. Ah well, that's what happens when you live abroad.
:mrgreen: I think this is normal. Some of my "foreign" friends living here in Germany for some years have more or less problems with their native language, especially when they don't speak it at home anymore.
I also experienced small bits myself: sometimes I start to think in english after spending a lot of time watching tv and reading in english, and I get confused and have to change actively back into "normal mode". My husband thinks I am crazy...

blaurebell wrote:As for listening comprehension: the real challenge is to understand it when there is lots of background noise.
The video indeed is challenging, because of the noise and the scottish accent! I like watching BBC-dokus from Scotland and the North, but I still have to listen carefully. So far I've only spent one holiday of two weeks speaking english, back then I had lots of problems listening speaking to more than one person at a time (yes, also in pubs). :D

blaurebell wrote:But then, I don't understand any full on Bavarian.
No problem here, on the other hand speaking "hochdeutsch" is almost impossible for me. :D
0 x

User avatar
blaurebell
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:24 pm
Location: Spain
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2+ passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
x 2217

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby blaurebell » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:02 pm

Hundetier wrote:I only noted the languages I am actually studying. Perhaps I should change it; but I don't know, what level for my english knowledge to state. Also I was certain that I could be identified as german by my name and the mistakes I make when writing in English :mrgreen: .


Some of my English friends make a lot more mistakes when writing ;) All that "it's" and "its", "you're" and "your" seems to be super confusing to some.

Hundetier wrote::mrgreen: I think this is normal. Some of my "foreign" friends living here in Germany for some years have more or less problems with their native language, especially when they don't speak it at home anymore.
I also experienced small bits myself: sometimes I start to think in english after spending a lot of time watching tv and reading in english, and I get confused and have to change actively back into "normal mode". My husband thinks I am crazy...


We speak English at home, since we both work in that language mainly. And I have to say that I don't think in word form, I'm more of a visual kind of thinker. Not sure it makes any difference, the first words out of my mouth are definitely still English.

Hundetier wrote:The video indeed is challenging, because of the noise and the scottish accent! I like watching BBC-dokus from Scotland and the North, but I still have to listen carefully. So far I've only spent one holiday of two weeks speaking english, back then I had lots of problems listening speaking to more than one person at a time (yes, also in pubs). :D


I've had lots of exposure from up north - York area - since I lived there for a summer. Scottish, hardly ever though. I once considered moving up there, but the weather in York was quite enough for me already ;)

Hundetier wrote:No problem here, on the other hand speaking "hochdeutsch" is almost impossible for me. :D


I stopped speaking Saxonian while I still lived in Saxony, I just found the accent so vile. Not super Hochdeutsch for me, but a sort of Düsseldorf area semi Hochdeutsch. People tend to think that I'm from Berlin usually. There is no cure for East German vowels ;)
1 x
: 20 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - В поисках камня
: 14325 / 35000 LWT Known

: 17 / 55 FSI Spanish Basic
: 100 / 116 GdUdE B
: 8 / 72 Duolingo reverse Spanish -> German

User avatar
Hundetier
Yellow Belt
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:12 pm
Languages: Deutsch, English, Español
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4873
x 86

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:16 pm

Last week real life stole a lot of my time. Gladly I could manage to do Glossika and some listening in the morning and before bed. But for Grammar and Reading there was no energie left.

: 120 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 25 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 72 / 150 Audio Course, and some podcasts
: 3 / 116 Grammática del Uso de Español B
: 55 / 102 Paso a Paso: Los tiempos del pasado del indicativo
: 18 / 84 ELE vocabulario
: 37 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> nothing, I start over after Glossika, both is too much for me
: 32 / 58 Español en Episodios
: 10 / 22 Rocket Spanish
1 x

AndyMeg
Blue Belt
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (B2-C1), Japanese (A2-B1), Korean (Upper-Beginner?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15829
x 1094

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby AndyMeg » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:09 am

blaurebell wrote:
AndyMeg wrote:Yes, even as a native speaker. But I usually get the unknown meanings from the context.


It's not only the vocabulary, but the whole set of cultural assumptions though. My husband is Argentinian and we live in the Spanish part of the Basque Country. I tend to understand the locals better than he does because he has additional cultural interference. He sometimes says that the people here don't really speak his language. It also has to do with the way people tend to speak in general, not just the vocabulary. Here they repeat everything 3-5 times, apart from the essential thing that they think is obvious. Once we were walking into town and an old man who was walking from the opposite direction said something like "Oh, I also had to walk all the way. I waited, but then I had to walk. Now I'm really tired, because I had to walk all the way." My husband didn't understand what he wanted from us at all and clearly thought that this was just some crazy old man telling random strangers about his day. I tend to have more random conversations with strangers than he does, so I can usually guess what's happening myself and could explain this weird behaviour to my husband. The old man started to speak to us because he saw us walking and he thought he'd let us know that the buses aren't running at all, also not in the opposite direction. That the buses weren't running was the obvious part that he thought he could omit, because he thought we were walking because of that. So, super confusing and annoying, because they usually leave you without context and then repeat themselves all the time for the rest. :roll: The repetitions are really infuriating sometimes, because they make conversations very tedious. And my husband always feels as if he's being treated like a moron, when people just speak that way here with everyone.

I also think that these cultural differences create more problems than obvious mistranslations when dealing with another language rather than just another dialect. Lots of things here strike me as obviously weird in comparison to the countries where I lived before, but it's far enough away from my own culture to be exotic rather than just plain obnoxious. As a German I have much more problems not getting confused with stuff Austrians do or say than with people coming from completely distinct cultures. For example, if Austrians are in a group and one of them sees someone nobody else in the group knows, they will not say hi to that other person! As a German I find this insanely rude and infuriating. Saying hi is the minimum level of respect in that situation, even if you don't have time to have a proper chat. For Austrians ignoring people in such situations seems to be normal though and it's not considered rude. Culturally it's just too close to classify such behavioural differences as "Other cultures are weird", it's too far away to be part of one's own culture though. My husband often gets angry about how people behave or speak here precisely because it's culturally too close to his own culture, but too far away to feel comfortable or always know what's going on.


I think your husband may have a point when he says that "the people there don't really speak his language." According to a Google search: "Basque Country (Euskadi) is an autonomous community in northern Spain with strong cultural traditions, a celebrated cuisine and a distinct language that pre-dates the Romance languages." Nowdays they are using spanish a lot more, but I think they still have a strong influence from "euskera" language and culture.

In Spain, besides spanish, there are other languages that are considered co-oficial in different parts of the country (euskera, gallego, catalán): Languages of Spain. Many people in Spain refer to spanish language as "castillian" in order to differenciate it from other languages that share the same official status (or a special recognition) in some parts of Spain (because the term "spanish" language may be a little misleading).

There's an interesting book about the languages from Spain: "Historia de las Lenguas Hispánicas contada para incrédulos" by Rafael del Moral (I bought it last year, but I haven't read it completely).

I think we should try to have an open mind when traveling to other places, even if they appear to be really similar to the culture we are used to. Spanish speaking countries have a lot in common, but there are also many differences (for example, in my country we find it very rude the way some people from Spain tend to use swearwords. They use swearwords a lot! But for those people in Spain the use of so many swearwords is considered normal and in a daily basis context those words have probably lost their initial meaning). Even in my own country there are some strong differences in customs, foods, accents and culture from one part of the country to another. For me that's normal, though.

I've spoken to people of many spanish speaking countries (Mexico, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Spain, etc.) and I think I understand them around 98% of the time. When there's something I don't understand, our common ground in spanish allows me to ask them for some explanations and learn what they are trying to communicate (I don't know if it is because I've been exposed to a lot of media from different spanish speaking countries from an early age).

blaurebell, have you visited other parts of Spain besides Basque Country? Have you gone to Madrid, for example? (What do you think of the spanish spoken there?)
Last edited by AndyMeg on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
0 x

AndyMeg
Blue Belt
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (B2-C1), Japanese (A2-B1), Korean (Upper-Beginner?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15829
x 1094

Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby AndyMeg » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:22 am

Hundetier wrote:Last week real life stole a lot of my time. Gladly I could manage to do Glossika and some listening in the morning and before bed. But for Grammar and Reading there was no energie left.


Siempre hay imprevistos. ¡Mucho ánimo! ;)
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arizakai, lichtrausch and 2 guests