Hundetier está estudiando español...

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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:22 pm

Last week I had a lot of Spanish Input and also some Output. But my preferences are changing again. I began to enjoy speaking sentences aloud with Glossika and other audio programmes. That's something I never imagined before. The last weeks I spent most of my time with grammar books, these are a bit neglected now. Also RS started to get boring. But I don't want to skip it, but only reduce the time I spend with it.
Reading doesn't pleasure me at the moment. I don't want to look up too much words and wonder over constructions, but without that I often don't understand what is going on. Perhaps a "real" spanish book is still too high, but my graded readers are too didactical for my taste, so I don't read them either. And this from a person who used to read more than 100 books a year... :oops:

A friend lent me his CDs of Assimil Spanish with Ease. So I decided to buy the book and to do this course parallel with Glossika. At the beginning, I want to do two lessons a day, until I'll come to unknown territory. So I should be able to start it completely (passive and active wave) next year. The phonetics under the sentences work astonishingly well and is also very easy to read.

At the moment I can spent almost two hours a day with active learning and another two hours with listening (walks etc.). I don't know if I can hold this level.

: 8 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 9 is at 57%
: 29 / 150 Pimsleur I -> 8 Episodes
: 19 / 58 Español en Episodios -> 6 Episodes
: 133 / 184 Grammática -> only two chapters left (imperativo y futuro)
: 6 / 100 La Ciudad de las Bestias -> only one chapter
: 10 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 1 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 4 / 109 Assimil passive wave
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:44 pm

It's time for my weekly update - another week is gone in which I had not so much time for studying as I would like to have. But I did every day something related to Spanish.
I'm not really happy with the reading of my current book, "La Ciudad de las Bestias"; I think I missed some important points. So I decided to start again, and this time with more looking up unknown words (and copying them in a notebook), and rereading till I fully understand it. Yesterday I did the first two pages, in a time where I could read a whole chapter. But I think, to understand and learn the content is preferable to reading velocity. ;)
With my speaking exercises on RS I cut back due to time issues, but I did every day a GSR or GSM of Glossika with speaking the sentences. I ordered 9 new grammar excercise books ... the next years can come and I won't run out of excercises ;) Good news: all birthday and other coupons are spent now. I try to be abstinent for the next weeks...
I tried to watch a bit of TV with subtitels, but could only understand fragments. The subtitles were shown when the speaker was two sentences ahead, not really helpful. But I hope that I'll improve soon.

And I had my first online-tutoring-lesson via Skype with Diana from NuLengua. This was an very intensive lesson with 50 min almost only speaking spanish (no english, but she had some speaking time, too, when she corrected me or asked sth.). I want to continue this with conversation lessons. I already scheduled a lesson for next week and one (with another tutor) for tomorrow.

: 8 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 9 is at 89%
: 35 / 150 Audio course -> 6 new Episodes
: 21 / 58 Español en Episodios -> 2 Episodes, but also some other youtube in spanish
: 133 / 184 Grammática -> nothing, but started with another three exercise books, ca. 25 pages :oops:
: 2 / 217 La Ciudad de las Bestias -> started over
: 20 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 3 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 20 / 109 Assimil passive wave
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:46 pm

Last week I had three skype sessions with different tutors of NuLengua. Two sessions were great, and one (the middle one) not so good. I had big problems with making full sentences and remembering words; I was very tired after a exhausting work day - maybe I should try to plan these lessons on the weekend. But with working full-time and being 7 hours ahead, scheduling lessons is not easy.
On the other hand the lesson of today was fun - we talked a lot. The teacher said she could understand me well, my pronunciation is clear, and I only need a lot of practise and vocabulary learning. For the next lesson I got a link to an article, that I should prepare so we can talk about it the next time. I think, this forces me into working with texts. When it comes to look up (and write down) vocabulary, I tend to stop reading. I prefer to read without dictionary, but my vocabulary knowledge is not developed enough for that.

: 9 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 10 is at 7%; at the moment I feel a bit bored with this
: 42 / 150 Audio course -> 7 new Episodes, one every day
: 27 / 58 Español en Episodios -> 5 Episodes, and my understanding increases :)
: 156 / 184 Grammática -> half of imperative done, and some other exercises
: 2 / 217 La Ciudad de las Bestias - no time and "gusto" for intensive reading
: 30 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 6 / 60 Glossika GSM -> boring but effective
: 30 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> 10 units, and it gets harder; not sure if I'm doing it right
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:03 am

Christmas and the time between the years had its effects on my free time. I didn't do as much learning as before, but I managed to squeeze in at least half an hour (and sometimes more) a day. Monday I am starting a new job, and time will show, how this will affect my routines ;)

Update of the last two weeks:
: 9 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 10 is at 53%; I still feel bored with this
: 48 / 150 Audio Course -> Module 2 half finished
: 30 / 58 Español en Episodios -> 3 Episodes, and some other youtube videos
: 180 / 184 Grammática -> almost finished
: 2 / 217 La Ciudad de las Bestias - no time and "gusto" for intensive reading
: 50 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 9 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 37 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> way behind plan...

This afternoon I want to finish my Grammar Exercise book ("Durchstarten 2"), so that I can continue tomorrow with "Gramática de Uso del Español B" (the blue one), which I got for christmas, also I started with "Irregular Verbs" of the Practise makes Perfect series.
Next year I want to concentrate on achieving a good intermediate level in spanish, and I should restart doing something for english, too. Yesterday I started reading "Ender's Game" after watching the film.
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:48 pm

Due to a persistent cold and loss of voice I didn't schedule any tutor lessons. Perhaps I'll continue next week. I only maintained Glossika and did a bit of grammar exercises. The majority of my time I spent with watching TV (not in spanish, but in english) and started reading (again in english). Better than nothing :oops:

: 9 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 10 is at 61%; I only try to keep my streak ...
: 48 / 150 Audio Course -> no progress
: 30 / 58 Español en Episodios ->nothing
: 3 / 116 Grammática del Uso de Español B
: 5 / 12 Practise makes Perfect: Irregular Verbs
: 2 / 217 La Ciudad de las Bestias - no time and "gusto" for intensive reading
: 60 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 11 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 37 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> nothing

According to my Excel-sheet I listened to 318min spanish and 560min english (only films and dokus counted).
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:47 am

Quite the same as last week, I'm still lying down with the flu and watching lots of TV. But not only in english ... I started with the "El Ministerio del Tiempo". I only watched the first two episodes, but these over and over, till I got a grasp on what is going on.

: 9 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 10 is at 63%; I only try to keep my streak ...
: 52 / 150 Audio Course -> 4 episodes, and some podcasts
: 30 / 58 Español en Episodios ->nothing
: 3 / 116 Grammática del Uso de Español B
: 6 / 12 Practise makes Perfect: Irregular Verbs
: 2 / 217 La Ciudad de las Bestias - no time and "gusto" for intensive reading
: 70 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 13 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 37 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> nothing

Listening: 532min spanish.
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:22 pm

Only a short update to keep track of my progress.

I am still trying to find my way of learning (and the last discussions here made me think about the methods). I enjoy watching videos and tv, I understand more and more, but still not enough to follow without help. A big deal is missing vocabulary. Learning words with Anki or something like that is not the right method for me, I prefer reading books and doing excercises. So I started to work with "vocabulario" (ANAYA, ELE) for some minutes every morning and night (before and after bedtime :D ). It surprised me that buying the books from Amazon in Spain was cheaper (inclusive shipping) than from my local Amazon. And the order was shipped by the centre here - I don't have to understand everything.

: 9 / 22 Rocket Spanish -> Module 10 is at 76% and I'm not sure if I should quit ...
: 63 / 150 Audio Course, I want to complete it while walking the dog ;)
: 30 / 58 Español en Episodios ->nothing, but other youtube-videos ...
: 3 / 116 Grammática del Uso de Español B
: 7 / 12 Practise makes Perfect: Irregular Verbs
: 6 / 84 ELE vocabulario
: 90 / 312 Glossika GSR, : 18 / 60 Glossika GSM
: 37 / 109 Assimil passive wave -> nothing, I start over after Glossika, both is too much for me
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby AndyMeg » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:43 am

¡Te deseo mucha suerte con tus estudios! ;)

De momento yo estoy estudiando coreano (empecé apenas unos días atrás), y un recurso que me gusta mucho es un diccionario de frecuencia de palabras. Para el caso del español también hay un diccionario de estos: A Frequency Dictionary of Spanish. Lo que me gusta de estos diccionarios es que puedes enfocar tu aprendizaje inicial en las palabras más usadas del idioma, lo cual ayuda a que al encontrártelas con frecuencia en materiales nativos, termines por recordarlas con facilidad y puedas usarlas a menudo.

Como no se me da bien estudiar con Anki (me abruma la cantidad de revisiones que se acumulan después de un tiempo), prefiero estudiar el vocabulario de a poco usando Memrise y un audio que consigo en Forvo. De momento estoy estudiando en tandas de a 39 palabras en orden de frecuencia.

Pienso que algo bueno para mejorar rápido tu nivel en un idioma y mantenerte motivada es encontrar material nativo que despierte tu interés. Veo que estás leyendo "La ciudad de las bestias" de Isabel Allende. Hace unos años atrás leí ese libro y me gustó mucho.

When I read books in a foreign language I look new words (or old but forgotten words) in the dictionary as many times as needed. I never put those words in review apps like Anki or Memrise, because I don't know how useful they will be to me in the future. I believe that if those words are important enough, they'll keep apperaing again and again in the book until I finally remember their meaning. A shortcut for learning really useful vocabulary in a short period of time is to use some good frequency lists (in this case I prefer to initially focus on four main categories: Verbs, Adjectives, Adverbs and Nouns).
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Hundetier
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby Hundetier » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:06 pm

¡Muchas gracias, AndyMeg, y bienvendido aquí!
Thanks for your tips. I'll have a look on that book. But I fear, it is only a collection of words. I tried to learn with a similar book, learning word groups that are ordered both thematically and by level. After only a week I quit because I felt overwhelmed and couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel (I don't like long lists ...). And Memrise isn't something for me either (I quit after three days of trying). I admire people who can stick with these things; I can't. I prefer working with books, texts and doings different things that pleasure me, not only working on lists. And if I feel "forced" to do something, it is over.
I think my problems with RocketSpanish result in the fact, that it's always the same "stupid" scheme. At the beginning it was great for me, because I was forced to speak and pronunciate the words, but now I do only something on the course to maintain my streak :shock:

AndyMeg wrote:I believe that if those words are important enough, they'll keep apperaing again and again in the book until I finally remember their meaning.

Well said, I believe the same. And I see no point in writing all words out to learn them, because doing that will for sure nerve me after a few sessions, so that I'll quit the whole project. Real spanish books still have to wait a bit, there are too many unknown words I have to look up for understanding, this steals my fun of reading. I want to read extensively and having fun with the story. (I learnt this with reading english books, I don't want to make the same mistakes again).
I do intensive reading with shorter texts (mostly combined with Audio - first listening, then reading), e.g. with VeinteMundos or SpanishPodcast.net. There it is no problem to look up words or to discover the meaning of a "weird" sentence.

I know, I am bit crazy and not normal ticking, but that's OK for me ... :mrgreen:
And I notice that I am improving, I understand more and more when reading or listening to spanish. I have fun with this language.

Korean isn't "only" your second foreign language (after english), or? You sound if you are very experienced with language learning and that you have found your way. I really appreciate your insights and tips (and these of the others here), because they help me to find my way.

¡Buena noche y hasta pronto!
Susanne
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Re: Hundetier está estudiando español...

Postby AndyMeg » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:32 pm

¡Gracias por la bienvenida, Hundetier! :)

Thematically you can find words that are rarely used so you may "waste" time learning some words that you won't be seeing a lot in native material. Something similar happens with the "levels", the easier words aren't always the most frequent. Word frequency lists are different, specially if they are based on good data. If you combine good word frequency lists with the use of native materials without aids (for example, native TV programmes without subs, or only with subs in your target language), one will reinforce the other and you'll make faster progress (the most frequent words will facilitate the amount of material you can comprehend, and the more you see those words by actively interacting with native material, the easier it'll become to remember them).

Another tip for working with lists is to take it slow. So far I'm only working with 39 of the most used korean words (from the categories I mentioned before). I don't like long lists either, so I'll just study those words until I feel enough confidence to move on and start learning another batch of 39 new words. The most important thing is to reinforce this study by using native materials from the beginning. I've been watching 20 minutes of korean drama each day and it has been really fun trying to recognize those 39 words while I watch. I get really excited when I recognize one of those words!

When you start, I think it is better to use native audio-visual material (TV shows, movies) because it gives you more context (you don't have to know each and every word to understand what's going on or at least get a general idea). Then, you could move on to comics, which lacks the audio input, but still gives you visual context. And finally, you can move on to only-text native materials (like novels, for example).

Korean is my third second language (not counting portuguese which I can understand reasonably well, but wich I have never formally studied. I just used to watch a lot of TV in portuguese when I was a kid and I really liked the sounds of the language. And, of course, it helps that spanish and portuguese have a lot in common). My first oficial second language was english, and my second second language was japanese (but I still have to work a lot on my japanese). With english, I had taken the obligatory classes at school, and then more classes outside school. Thanks to that I achieved a lower-intermediate level, but I got stuck on that level for many years. Then, one day I wanted to read a japanese manga, but I could only find the english translation, so I told myself "you have studied english, it's time to put it to good use" and then I started reading that manga. It was really hard at first: I lacked a lot of vocabulary and I would have to use the dictionary many times. At the beginning I could only read three pages at most before I had to give up, exhausted. But I really liked the story, so the next day I would come back and read a few more pages. And I continued doing this day after day until some months later I realized I now was reading more than eight chapters in a row almost without having to use the dictionary. That realization made me really happy. I had dramatically improved my english and it didn't feel like studying at all, I just was using english as a means to enjoy a story. Then, after a year or so, I was so engrossed in another manga that I read it, completely, in about five days. So, yeah, (as it seems to be the case for you too) for me the most important factor when learning is to have fun. I think you never stop learning a language, not even your native one. But I think you can enjoy each and every step of the process.

With each new language (and even with old ones) I like to experiment and try new things out. My strategy for learning korean is the result of what I've learnt thanks to my endeavors with english and japanese (and, in some sense, with portuguese too). ;)

If you want, you could check out my log for korean: K-Dramas, here I come!. I may also open one for japanese in the future.

¡Hasta pronto!
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