Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

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Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (???), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
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Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Elenia » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:07 pm

First, I am not a learner of Japanese, and never have been. Second, I try to stay away from grammar wherever possible.

That out of the way...

Xelian wrote:It is true that my grammar is lacking, however, I think that in time, hearing enough Japanese, I'll be able to know whether or not it sounds correct. Maybe it takes longer than I think though. I just know that the way I picked up English grammar is by listening and reading a lot.


I think you can get a very good feel for grammar just through consuming a lot of native content. I know also that this isn't always enough. When we can understand the general meaning, we tend to skip over small details, and this is where targeted study is needed. For example, a member on HTLAL (who I don't think made it over here with the general exodus) had consumed a ton of German media, lived in Germany and had a German wife. He complained that he still had issues with certain parts of German grammar in spite of all this.

Secondly, children are very good at picking up patterns, and creating patterns when needed. For example the phenomenon of nativisation, whereby a pidgin becomes a creole via the children who learn it from their parents and create structure and grammar. In addition to this, we have both had years of listening to native speech with native grammar, being corrected when we make errors and being instructed, however lightly, in things which are said and things which aren't said. We'll usually have most of the attention of a dedicated and amazing patient native speaker to correct us gently when we're wrong and praise us abundantly and be amazed when we're right. We start producing our native tongue quite slowly, even though we've had, at standard, about two years of being spoken to and hearing others speak around us.

So it is possible to pick up grammar and a feel for the language just through consumption of culture, but our acquisition was neither such a walk in the park as it begins to feel after a decade and more of distance, nor is it the most expedient route for second language acquisition. (For more on this method, check out user Bakunin's log and the links he's provided. He hasn't posted here in a while, but I really like the method he's come up with. It requires hours of complete silence and listening, with one or more natives prepared or paid to make very detailed recordings, but I tried it out for a few recordings with German, and thought it was great).

To answer your question, I would say that you should target the areas you feel you struggle most with. Don't read your whole grammar again. I think your plan to look up bits of grammar as you go along is great. Look at lots of example sentences, do drills if need be, practice using just those bits of grammar and get corrections.

Also, I'm sorry that your teacher wasn't much help. Good luck :) I'm rooting for you!
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dampingwire
Green Belt
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:11 pm
Location: Abingdon, UK
Languages: Italian (N), English (N), French (poor, not studying), Japanese (studying, JLPT N3)
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Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby dampingwire » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:10 pm

Xelian wrote:So I talked to my Japanese teacher about how I feel like I'm going too slowly with my Japanese homework and not getting the grades I was hoping for. She basically indirectly told me to stop being anxious in class, re-read my grammar textbook, and stop trying to memorize vocabulary.


I don't see how not knowing vocabulary is going to help - I'm constantly tripped up by words I don't know and can't guess from context.

Xelian wrote:Anyway, anyone have any ideas to speed up translating or learning Japoanese grammar? Lol


I found that what seems to have helped me with the grammar is to put the example sentences from 新完全マスター 文法 and 日本語総まとめ 文法 into Anki and then drilled them mercilessly. That seemed to cement most of the grammar points into my head. That's still left a few that I need to go over and revise every now and then but overall it has helped me greatly.
3 x
新完全マスター N2聴解 : 94 / 103新完全マスター N2読解 : 99 / 177
新完全マスター N2文法 : 197 / 197TY Comp. German : 0 / 389

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Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)
svenska (A2-B1)

Studying off and on:
Español (A2)
العَرَبِيَّة (beginner)

On the back burner:
한국어 (A2)
中文 (beginner)
Български (A2)

Maybe some other time:
ASL (A2)
Deutsch (beginner)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni) Hindi, Turkish, Tibetan, Farsi, Nepali, Urdu, Russian, Vietnamese, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Bengali
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4705
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Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:35 am

Thank you all for your replies. For now I am just doing what I can to graduate. I do want to prepare for Japanese proficiency tests in the future, and really do want to memorize a bunch of vocabulary, but for now I am just focusing on what I can do to get at least the bare minimum done... I won't be re-reading my grammar book, I will just be doing my best with what knowledge I have ^^

I am posting a quick update because I haven't in quite some time. Next quarter, I'm planning to take Japanese Translation, Classical Japanese, and 2nd year Swedish. It's a bit much, but my friends are taking Classical Japanese so I will have some support!!!

Japanese:
6/11 quizzes
0/1 final exam

My quiz scores for this class are pretty average, but I think it's alright.

Swedish:
2/4 written tests
2/5 essays
0/1 presentation

I think the presentation is going to be near the end of the school year for us. Hopefully it's not too challenging to make!

I'm super annoyed because the sun is already down and it's only 4 in Seattle. I hate Seattle in the winter...
0 x
: 11 / 33 Language Progress 2017-18
: 47 / 1000 Japanese Book Pages

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)
svenska (A2-B1)

Studying off and on:
Español (A2)
العَرَبِيَّة (beginner)

On the back burner:
한국어 (A2)
中文 (beginner)
Български (A2)

Maybe some other time:
ASL (A2)
Deutsch (beginner)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni) Hindi, Turkish, Tibetan, Farsi, Nepali, Urdu, Russian, Vietnamese, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Bengali
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4705
x 94
Contact:

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:48 pm

Japanese:
7/11 quizzes
0/1 final exam

I couldn't make it to this past quiz (which killed the strong academic inside me), and took a zero, but it will be dropped (phew...). The lowest test score is dropped each quarter, so I could technically afford it, but didn't think my emotions would ever win out my academic side....... Anyway. We started a new story. I will admit, I'm happy I can add more pages to my "Japanese Book Pages Read" bar in my signature. At the rate I'm going, I feel like it's actually plausible to make it to 1,000 pages read!!! I'm planning to try and speed memorize all of the words I see more than once, so that the list of words to memorize is a little less daunting.

Swedish:
2/4 written tests
3/5 essays
0/1 presentation

We had another essay. Next week, another essay and a written test will be happening.
1 x
: 11 / 33 Language Progress 2017-18
: 47 / 1000 Japanese Book Pages

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)
svenska (A2-B1)

Studying off and on:
Español (A2)
العَرَبِيَّة (beginner)

On the back burner:
한국어 (A2)
中文 (beginner)
Български (A2)

Maybe some other time:
ASL (A2)
Deutsch (beginner)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni) Hindi, Turkish, Tibetan, Farsi, Nepali, Urdu, Russian, Vietnamese, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Bengali
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4705
x 94
Contact:

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:42 am

Japanese:
11/11 quizzes
0/1 final exam

We took the final quiz and the final exam is on Wednesday morning! So ready to be done and have a nice winter break!!! I am going to be speed-memorizing the vocabulary I meticulously wrote down from the readings and also reviewing our translation notes...

Swedish:
4/4 written tests
5/5 essays
1/1 presentation

I got a 100% on my presentation. The topic I chose was Swedish etymology, which was super fun for me (even though it took a lot of effort and time).

This quarter has been hell but I made breathing room for myself and don't regret a thing. Next quarter I'll try even harder but I realize that even good students shouldn't let their studies take over their mental health. Even if the grades aren't perfect, I still learned loads more than I knew before~
1 x
: 11 / 33 Language Progress 2017-18
: 47 / 1000 Japanese Book Pages

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MamaPata
Green Belt
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: Moscow
Languages: English (N), French (B1), Spanish (A2), Russian (low B1), Latin (A2 once upon a time!), Arabic (abandoned)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
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Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby MamaPata » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:02 am

Xelian wrote:This quarter has been hell but I made breathing room for myself and don't regret a thing. Next quarter I'll try even harder but I realize that even good students shouldn't let their studies take over their mental health. Even if the grades aren't perfect, I still learned loads more than I knew before~


This is definitely true - you have to prioritise your mental health (and that will then help with your studies). Enjoy the holidays, look after yourself!
0 x
SC French Hours: 162 / 225 SC French Pages: 5597 / 7500
SC Russian Hours: 155 / 150 SC Russian Pages: 1742 / 5000
Output Challenge: 13456 / 50000


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