Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:11 pm

So I've disregarded my normal schedule because I've actually been traveling. I didn't realize how much it would take out of me, so I haven't had the time to even look at my schedule. I did some work with languages however, I'm glad I could fit something in! I met up with a good friend of mine and we spoke a little bit of Japanese and he explained a little bit about Spanish grammar.

Japanese:
Reading: N/A
Writing: N/A
Listening: 10 mins
Speaking: 10 mins
Flashcards: N/A

Totals of today:
Not much reading
0 kanji practiced
10 mins listened
10 mins spoken
0 new words discovered
0 words studied

Totals of this summer:
7.5 pages read
58 kanji practiced
A lot + 45 mins listened
14 consecutive days + 10 mins spoken
150 new words discovered
28 unique words studied

I actually got an electronic Japanese dictionary game for the DS that I thought would be extremely helpful for learning kanji, it's called Raku Biki Jiten. I no longer have to look up kanji by radical alone now, but I can see how it could be a little hindering in cases where I want to practice the kanji I looked up, so I have to switch to pencil, then write in my kanji renshuu. I also don't know if the dictionary shows a stroke order for the kanji, I didn't notice since I wasn't playing the program very long.

I also got my "textbook" for next year and am highly disappointed, mainly because it is nearly entirely in English, but maybe it is really useful. I'll have to use the remaining chapters of Tobira as a supplement for my learning before I go back to school I think.
~~~

Spanish:
Reading: I did some Memrise
Writing: Typing on Memrise; typing to some friends online
Listening: Songs in Spanish; Memrise
Speaking: A tiny bit with my friend
Flashcards: Memrise

Totals of today:
Not much reading
Not much listened
Not much spoken
24 new words discovered
50 words studied

Totals of this summer:
0 pages read
2 hours listened
Not much spoken
70 new words discovered
114 unique words studied

I think I've like actually fallen in love with Spanish, :D
~~~

English:

Totals of today:
Reading: 0 pages
Writing: 1 pages

Totals of this summer:
Reading: 72 pages
Writing: 24 pages
0 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:36 pm

Still visiting family, but will be back in Seattle soon so I can get a more consistent schedule going. If not, it's fine, I'll have plenty to deal with next quarter anyway. This is all I got:

Japanese:
Reading: Some more of my short story
Writing: Some kanji
Listening: N/A
Speaking: A little
Flashcards: N/A

Totals of today:
Not much reading
6 kanji practiced
0 mins listened
0 mins spoken
2 new words discovered
0 words studied

Totals of this summer:
8 pages read
64 kanji practiced
A lot + 45 mins listened
14 consecutive days + 10 mins spoken
152 new words discovered
28 unique words studied

I've been using Raku Biki Jiten and still don't see stroke order. You'd think if they have it on most online dictionaries, they'd have it on this one, but that's ok. I have to use this AND Denshi Jisho to actually practice kanji, so it's a little annoying but looking up kanji is at least a bit faster.
~~~

Spanish:
Reading: I did some Duolingo
Writing: Typing on Duolingo
Listening: N/A
Speaking: N/A
Flashcards: N/A

Totals of today:
Not much reading
Not much listened
Not much spoken
0 new words discovered
??? words studied

Totals of this summer:
0 pages read
2 hours listened
Not much spoken
70 new words discovered
114 unique words studied

~~~

English:

Totals of today:
Reading: 17 pages
Writing: 8 pages

Totals of this summer:
Reading: 89 pages
Writing: 32 pages
0 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:02 am

Hi everyone,

I've kind of decided to quit languages for the rest of the summer. GASPS... I know, it's crazy, but it's pretty evident to me that I need a break. I've been watching some Swedish TV shows for kids and that's been interesting. But other than that, not doing a whole lot, kind of lost motivation to study Japanese words, and I think that's fine. This year has been full of new Japanese words.

When the next quarter starts, I'll likely either continue this log or start a new, more organized one for next year. I've got a lot of interests that are taking my attention at the moment, but I'll be right back at it at the end of September! ^^ It's crazy, only one year left and I'll have my Bachelor's degree!

Talk later!
1 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Elenia » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:59 pm

Enjoy your break and take care of yourself!
2 x

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:05 am

I'm back on here again, even though the summer break isn't over. I had a good month of a break and moved into my new apartment!

I've recently been getting more creative with how I memorize things.

On average, I use to learn about 25 words per week, but I know that I can learn about this many in 1 hour with flashcards if my focus is high. I've been dancing around the idea of taking the JLPT N3, so I've been experimenting with some of the unknown words in this list.

I was able to memorize 60 Japanese words in the span of a few hours, and have been trying to increase this amount, but it's a lot of work (of course). I just think learning vocabulary efficiently and in big numbers would really help with fluency (though I know it is not everything).

But wouldn't it be great to apply this to other languages once I get a solid method down? Using a more efficient memorization technique would really help in a lot of my language learning barriers.

My Swedish teacher also commented that while I have a knack for languages, it would be wise to up my vocabulary so that I could more easily express myself in Swedish.

So, that's what I've been doing recently. I might drop the idea of the proficiency test, because it is a pretty stressful thing to think about doing on top of school work, but I have until the end of September to decide! I think it has been a big motivational factor in learning these past few days, so for now I'm going to keep it up. I'm also planning to jump around in some other languages I haven't done a lot with, and switch up my focus languages.
1 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:05 am

So, I haven't done much with the speed-memorization technique lately, haha, but I have been keeping up with my language learning.

I reviewed the 60 words I speed-memorized (which, actually took a long time) and I could remember around 85-90% of them, so that's awesome! I also wrote a Lang-8 post in Japanese for the first time in MONTHS because I've honestly been so sick of Japanese from this last year of studying Japanese by the university quarter system x-x... (I've barely had time to breathe). BUT, the good news is, I'm not sick of Japanese anymore, I took a sufficient break from it and I'm back at it again.

I'm also learning some basic Arabic and reviewing my Spanish on Memrise. I started an Arabic set on Memrise and am in the process of really learning the alphabet. I know that when I was learning Bulgarian and studying Cyrillic, it took me at least 4 or 5 review sessions (spaced out over the span of a few weeks) to fully learn it, so I assume it will be a similar story with the Arabic script. For some reason, Japanese hiragana was much simpler, it only took me two weeks or something, while katakana (and not to mention, Korean hangeul) took me what seemed to be FOREVER. And well, Kanji is still a work in progress but I've got a good mental Kanji database.

But anyway, about Arabic, I honestly think it is the most beautiful language that I have heard, I think it even beats Korean as far as the sound of the language goes. And I think Korean is one of the most beautiful languages to listen to...

I just want to learn Arabic (and soon Egyptian Arabic and other dialects) so badly, and have wanted to for quite some time for various reasons but never got a hang of the alphabet. Now that I've mastered 4 alphabets and am familiar with another few, Arabic script actually doesn't seem so bad, haha. So, I'm working on that and don't believe I'll be stopping anytime soon.

Spanish is still a work in progress, but yes I do love it still and want to continue! I'm beginning to realize that perhaps I am less interested in learning all three Japanese, Korean, and Mandarin, and more interested in learning bits of language from a very vast range of the world. So, that's where I stand now!!! My languages for 2018 are looking to be Japanese, Swedish, Arabic (plus dialects), and Spanish.

This post was a bit disorganized, my apologies, I am incredibly sleepy right now! I'll be checking in again soon...
2 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:56 am

I've started a "bullet journal" to help me stay on track with my "extracurricular" language learning for the coming school year. This should help me stay organized, and keep my posts on here more organized as well. Here is a summary of my language activities so far:

Japanese
- Reading
- Speed-memorizing
Notes: Still in the testing stages of speed-memorizing. So far, I have observed that I can remember an average of 32% of any given set per 1 hour (tested sets included 60 words and 100 words) and an average of 49% per 2 hours. What this is telling me is, the more words in the set, the more words I can remember. However, I am still measuring the limits of my retention. I predict that the percentages may not hold true for very large sets (for example, a 300 word set). BUT I am planning to test that out soon, :lol:

Spanish
- Memrise
- Reading
Notes: I've been reviewing the Memrise set "Spanish (Mexico) 1". I'm about half way through. I've also been looking up random words on food products etc. that I'm unfamiliar with and have remembered a few of them.

Arabic
- Pop music
- Alphabet review
Notes: This is super cool
5 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
x 10462

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:06 am

Xelian wrote:So far, I have observed that I can remember an average of 32% of any given set per 1 hour (tested sets included 60 words and 100 words) and an average of 49% per 2 hours. What this is telling me is, the more words in the set, the more words I can remember.


This is interesting! It reminds me of the "quickly but poorly" approach mentioned at the old forum (by HTLAL dinosaur fanatic), and is something I've experienced myself when learning music. Sometimes the brain works in mysterious ways.
1 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

Llorg Blog - Wiki - Discord

User avatar
Xelian
Orange Belt
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:19 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: English (N)

Studying actively:
日本語 (B2)

Studying off and on:
한국어 (A2)
svenska (B1)
中文 (A1)
Tiếng Việt
Deutsch (beginner)

On the back burner:
Español (A2)
ASL (A1)
العَرَبِيَّة

Maybe some other time:
Български (A1)

Interested in:
Arabic (Egyptian, Yemeni), Hindi, Turkish, Thai, Tibetan, Nepali, Bengali, Urdu, Russian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish, Farsi
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17163
x 237

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby Xelian » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:22 am

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
Xelian wrote:So far, I have observed that I can remember an average of 32% of any given set per 1 hour (tested sets included 60 words and 100 words) and an average of 49% per 2 hours. What this is telling me is, the more words in the set, the more words I can remember.


This is interesting! It reminds me of the "quickly but poorly" approach mentioned at the old forum (by HTLAL dinosaur fanatic), and is something I've experienced myself when learning music. Sometimes the brain works in mysterious ways.


Thanks for the reply!!! I searched for the "quickly but poorly" method on the old forum and here on LLF, but could not find anything except for references to said method. I'd definitely be interested if you could send me a link to a description of this method!

I haven't exactly described every aspect of my memorization strategy just yet, but it definitely involves relaxation while maintaining high focus. When relaxed, you have no other anxieties to worry about, and can just focus on the task at hand. I also noticed that I was only able to learn as much as I believed I could learn in a given session. So when presented with 30 words for a whole week, I would only be able to learn that much, and use to believe that 25 words was about my limit per week. That all changed recently when I started trying to learn more words, and heard of a way to relax the mind to allow for maximum benefits.

What takes the most amount of time with what I am doing currently is gathering and listing the vocabulary to put into Quizlet. I can spend 4 hours just searching for the words I would like to learn :lol: . But once I make a list of them in a word document, I import the words to Quizlet and make a recording, reading every Japanese word only. For me, relaxing (which is important) and listening to the recording while silently reading the list of Quizlet words for 5 minutes is actually just as effective as using Quizlet's "writing" option for 45 minutes... I consider this speed-memorizing, especially because after 3-5 sessions, the whole list is almost entirely ingrained. I currently just use Quizlet as a test to see my vocabulary retention for each session. You must have patience. However, once the mind hears something, it doesn't generally leave. And it is that belief (even if it isn't scientifically proven) that causes you to remember anything you hear. At least, in my case. I am able to recall most words, especially if I relax and give myself a moment to remember it. And it is that recollection that solidifies the term in the mind, so that even the next day, I remember the process of recalling the word. MAGIC.

Another thing I think is worth mentioning is that when I needed to learn about 60 words per 2 or 3 days in university, I was learning not only intermediate Japanese, but also beginner Korean. Simple Quizlet did NOT work for my beginner Korean words, I fell far behind, and had to drop the Korean class in order to learn just the required Japanese vocabulary. I think that my new method would have been able to help with this, unfortunately, I thought that my mind had limits, and I thought Korean was too challenging.

In summary, your mind is capable of anything you believe it is capable of, especially with experience and focus.
2 x
: 84 / 1000 Japanese Pages Read

User avatar
jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
x 10462

Re: Japanese, Swedish, and Polyglotism Language Log

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:19 am

Xelian wrote:Thanks for the reply!!! I searched for the "quickly but poorly" method on the old forum and here on LLF, but could not find anything except for references to said method. I'd definitely be interested if you could send me a link to a description of this method!


Basically it's setting a higher goal even if you only half-learn that content. If you aim for 20 words that's all you get, but if you aim for 100 words you might still retain, who knows, 50 (60?) of them.

Ah, I found his original explanation!

fanatic wrote:By quickly but poorly I mean, don't worry about retaining all of the vocabulary and all of the grammar rules or declensions. Read the declensions and rules and observe what each new word means. With repetition and reviews of old lessons you will be reminded often enough. You will learn the vocabulary and the grammar much better and much faster than if you kept at each point until you felt you had learnt it entirely.

I teach learning strategies where you can memorise a textbook or foreign vocabulary. By quickly but poorly you can learn 100 words in the time that slowly but surely can learn 20. The problem is, because you have learnt them poorly, there may be 30 words you can't recall when you need them.

Is that bad?

No, because you have learnt 70 words perfectly in the time that the slowly but surely people have learnt 20. (Those figures are fairly accurate, by the way.) Some people get hung up by the fact that they can't recall the other 30 words. No big deal. If the goal is to learn 100 words, you only have 30 more to learn whereas the slowly but surely people have yet another 80 words to learn. They will probably get discouraged and give up.


(Original HTLAL thread)

More on this - How fast can you learn 2500 words? (I quote myself 8-) )

jeff_lindqvist wrote:In Irish traditional music, it's not that unusual to have a working repertoire of more than 1000 tunes (where a "tune" typically means a melody with two or more parts, and eight bars per part - it takes about half a minute to play through once). After the first couple of hundred tunes, almost everything is obvious. "You will be exposed to all sorts of different ways that your fingers and bow must be contorted". (Thanks to Larry Sanger for that quote). Anybody with decent skills (i.e. anybody who has had the patience to learn hundreds of tunes by ear) should be able to hear patterns all over the place - not that far a cry from recognizing stems, prefixes, endings...

As long as the 2500 words aren't totally random, patterns like these should pop up sooner than you'd expect. Whether it's best to speed up the process by exposing oneself to a large vocabulary right away, or prefer to wait until "one's ready" - I don't know. But for tunes, I'm totally convinced that it takes shorter to learn "a lot of tunes" than half that amount in the same time, because of the pattern recognition and "aiming high"/"quickly but poorly" (as our own Fanatic calls it).


I'm all for doing (certain) things properly, but there is time to be saved if one takes this "quickly but poorly" approach. Speed-readers go through content several times in a short time-span, and that way they also review it for each reading.
2 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

Llorg Blog - Wiki - Discord


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