The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

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whatiftheblog
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Re: The great push to C2 (French)

Postby whatiftheblog » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:47 am

Ani wrote:That's amazing! Congratulations on getting your interview done. It does sound like you did really well. Is this the big program interview that you've been pushing to prepare for, or are there other opportunities coming up also?


Thank you! This is it, the big program interview that's been the goal all along. I have some alternative plan ideas, but I'm hoping I won't need to use them.

LesRonces wrote:
whatiftheblog wrote:FWIW, on the pure language side, my Airbnb host for this most recent trip to France also didn't believe I'd never lived in France. AFATT works! I did let myself marathon The Handmaid's Tale in English the day I was done with my interview, and I finally turned on some Spanish/Afrikaans music as a reward, but I only lasted two and a half days, really, because today I've already watched 3 hours of C dans l'air, to which I have developed a strange addiction. It's gonna suck if I get rejected, but at least I'll know I'll be able to keep going and hopefully do even better the next time around.

Could you explain what AJATT actually is ? Every post, thread, or website i've read about it, i can't seem to decipher what makes it different. They all talk about it basically being a flashcard heavy program with as much native material as possible, as often as possible. Is this correct ?


Your definition of it being a flashcard heavy program with as much native material as possible is correct for the original AJATT, or at least how I took it. However, I didn't use flashcards because my vocabulary was already far enough along at that stage; instead, I kept a million typed/written note documents where I would write down phrases I came across that seemed useful or particularly interesting/elegant. The point of my AFATT was simply to drown myself in native material as much as possible, every day, without fail, all the time. Usually I averaged about 8-10 hours a day, never fewer than 6. The point was to artificially create an immersive environment, and it worked :D
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Re: The great push to C2 (French)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:19 pm

LesRonces wrote:
whatiftheblog wrote:FWIW, on the pure language side, my Airbnb host for this most recent trip to France also didn't believe I'd never lived in France. AFATT works! I did let myself marathon The Handmaid's Tale in English the day I was done with my interview, and I finally turned on some Spanish/Afrikaans music as a reward, but I only lasted two and a half days, really, because today I've already watched 3 hours of C dans l'air, to which I have developed a strange addiction. It's gonna suck if I get rejected, but at least I'll know I'll be able to keep going and hopefully do even better the next time around.

Could you explain what AJATT actually is ? Every post, thread, or website i've read about it, i can't seem to decipher what makes it different. They all talk about it basically being a flashcard heavy program with as much native material as possible, as often as possible. Is this correct ?


AJATT can be a bit of a change of lifestyle. The blog referenced here covers a "method" and includes blog posts that are usually thought-provoking and often practical advice. The blogger ended the blog in 2014. I would endorse the ideas, but not the products, which I have never tried.

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread!

Edit to include apology.
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Re: The great push to C2 (French)

Postby whatiftheblog » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:29 pm

No apology needed, Mork, thanks for your post!

LesRonces wrote:Ooh sounds interesting. I'm at the same level really - flashcards are pointless when i can pretty much read without having to look so much stuff up so context is king i feel.

I feel at the point of a breakthrough especially in my listening comprehension and so i think giving something like this a shot might help force me through that wall.


I can't recommend it enough, honestly. The idea is to basically consume/surround yourself with as much native content as possible and to align your life with that of a real French person. I've posted about it before in this thread, but my days would typically look something like this:

*note: today is day 4 of my No AFATT period, in which I let myself consume content in not-French, and I honestly just miss my stuff :D

Morning: BFM/CNews/Franceinfo on the shower/while getting ready; BFM/Cnews/Bourdin/podcast on my commute
Daytime: the same lineup anytime I had a free moment at work, or while performing a task that didn't require composing text in English; Le Monde, Twitter regularly throughout the day
Commute home: same lineup + Twitter
Evening: documentaries, anything I didn't get through during the day (particularly on event-heavy campaign days when lots of scandals were coming out), books, series, movies.

The trick was sticking French into every crevice I possibly could, including the shower (through a shower speaker), recipes (lots of good ones online and you learn the names of herbs and stuff), DIY tips, blog reading (home decor etc), instruction videos, basically any content I needed or wanted had to be consumed in French.

I read far less than I'd intended, although I'm starting to catch up now, and I spent way too much time on Twitter. Otherwise I'd say it worked pretty well :)
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Re: The great push to C2 (French)

Postby whatiftheblog » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:00 am

Welp, folks, seems like it's official - I will be déménaging to the world's strongest softest power in just about 60 days. I've been accepted into my (dream) program (<-- THIS BIT HERE IS STILL UNREAL) and I'm about to send them confirmation of my attendance - I just figured I'd wait a bit, since normal people usually don't email back at 4:24 am.

I'll keep program details concealed for the sake of anonymity, since it's quite a small school with a very niche following but a very strong name. Considering I was already prepared to accept defeat, THIS IS NUTS. :D

SO! I'll be doing some posts on what I've learned throughout this process, since I've been itching to put all of my thoughts on this in writing. First off, AFATT / artificial immersion / whatever you want to call it works. I do have to thank the planets for aligning just so that my preparation year coincided with a particularly exciting election season and that I happen to love French elections, so there was no shortage of material to keep me engaged. I also benefited from several key opportunities and circumstances, like having the funds to spend three weeks in France and pay for online tutors, being able to engage with francophone friends, freedom from nearly any family obligations, etc - definitely checking my privilege here just to underscore that I recognize I was fortunate in many ways, and that saying "if I can do it, anyone can" would be tone-deaf at best.

However, if you, too, happen to have 8-10 free hours a day at your disposal every day for about 10 months straight, you, too, can go from B2 to C2ish ;) For me, the keys to success were:

1. Never consuming material I found boring, always hunting for new material that would keep me engaged. Whatever I had lined up next in French always seemed more appealing than the alternative (like a show in English), so I had no reason to stop.

2. Sticking French into literally everything I did whenever possible - I was collating handouts at work a few weeks ago and had my headphones on with the news for the 8 minutes that took or whatever.

3. Index cards - this was a very last-minute addition to my "routine" and only for the interview portion, but I prepared several "trajectories" of where I thought the interview could logically go and wrote the notes for each bit out thematically on several index cards. So, for example, I'd have 3 "intro" cards that would have key bullet points on things I could/should talk about in my intro; 4 "projet professionnel" cards where I wrote out the different ideas I had for career development; 4 cards on my current role and job functions; etc. Then I practiced - and recorded myself until I got each one perfect - different "trajectories", like going from the intro straight into the projet professionnel, or going from current role to why this school, etc. This gave me a "bank" of elegant phrases to work with. This is the first time I've ever prepared for an interview like this, and I quite liked it.

4. Knowing what works and what doesn't. This is going to sound nutburgers, but I've written about this before, I think - my speaking skills get enhanced considerably after 4-5 hours of either Macron or a specific list of vloggers en boucle. I could watch 4-5 hours of documentaries and my speaking skills would stay the same; put me in front of 5 hours of Macron and I'm suddenly blazing through. I have no idea how to explain this, except that it might have something to do with me gravitating towards specific rhythms of speech and then having an easier time mimicking that? Who knows. In any case, whenever I needed to speak, I usually turned on someone I knew would get me speaking.

5. Taking advantage of the enormous amount of school-focused material on Youtube. For those of you who might be considering higher education in France, whatever your field of interest, search for student vlogs, videos by various prépas, Campus Channel videos for programs similar to what you might like, etc. These are majorly helpful in figuring out what top schools look for, how to prepare for an interview if you need to, and even for building academic vocabulary you might not have come across otherwise.

6. Pretend-"vlogging" - a.k.a. talking to myself/my cat about the day's news items or matters of concern or whatever. A low-impact way to identify gaps in vocabulary and, conversely, to gain confidence when an elegant phrase develops itself seemingly of its own volition.

7. Twitter, which helps train automation and quick responses.

So that's about it for now, I'm going to go roam my apartment for the next few hours and try to gather myself, but I do plan on continuing this log to actually track how the process of getting educated in France goes. Thanks for all your support around the forum!
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Re: The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

Postby blaurebell » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:17 am

whatiftheblog wrote:Welp, folks, seems like it's official - I will be déménaging to the world's strongest softest power in just about 60 days. I've been accepted into my (dream) program (<-- THIS BIT HERE IS STILL UNREAL) and I'm about to send them confirmation of my attendance - I just figured I'd wait a bit, since normal people usually don't email back at 4:24 am.


Congratulations!!! But then, with all the work and enthusiasm you put in, it was kind of inevitable! When I just saw your possible C2 exam post in the French C1+ group I immediately thought, yeah, that won't be happening, you will get in for sure! :D

I will quite likely be mimicking your AFATT strategy as AAATT (Argentinian Spanish) as soon as I get through my Russian schedule. I'll leave 2h for French, Russian and possibly Italian progress, but the rest of the time I'll try to maximise the Spanish. I'm already consolidating my grammar knowledge now and collecting material. I'll probably start properly in October! The plan is to pass C1 next summer, get some of my PhD research in Spanish done and get ready for some academic collaborations and possibly another Master.
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Re: The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

Postby whatiftheblog » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:41 am

blaurebell wrote:
whatiftheblog wrote:Welp, folks, seems like it's official - I will be déménaging to the world's strongest softest power in just about 60 days. I've been accepted into my (dream) program (<-- THIS BIT HERE IS STILL UNREAL) and I'm about to send them confirmation of my attendance - I just figured I'd wait a bit, since normal people usually don't email back at 4:24 am.


Congratulations!!! But then, with all the work and enthusiasm you put in, it was kind of inevitable! When I just saw your possible C2 exam post in the French C1+ group I immediately thought, yeah, that won't be happening, you will get in for sure! :D

I will quite likely be mimicking your AFATT strategy as AAATT (Argentinian Spanish) as soon as I get through my Russian schedule. I'll leave 2h for French, Russian and possibly Italian progress, but the rest of the time I'll try to maximise the Spanish. I'm already consolidating my grammar knowledge now and collecting material. I'll probably start properly in October! The plan is to pass C1 next summer, get some of my PhD research in Spanish done and get ready for some academic collaborations and possibly another Master.


Thank you! Your plan sounds excellent, best of luck. I'm living proof that the method works, but it does require a hefty investment. Will be following along to see how you strike a balance, since I'm already sort of thinking, well, a few years down the road, once my French is all settled, maybe I could do the same sort of thing for Spanish... :D
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Re: The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

Postby blaurebell » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:00 pm

whatiftheblog wrote:Thank you! Your plan sounds excellent, best of luck. I'm living proof that the method works, but it does require a hefty investment. Will be following along to see how you strike a balance, since I'm already sort of thinking, well, a few years down the road, once my French is all settled, maybe I could do the same sort of thing for Spanish...


I don't mind the investment, when it actually pays off, and you're indeed living proof that it does! Right now my languages often get equal time unless I'm working on something specific - right now Russian. Pretty balanced all around and all are actually progressing. For maintenance you don't need much time, especially at C2 level. I have been doing 6-8h of other languages for like a year and my English has been pretty safe. As long as you still use it actively every day a little - maybe an hour or two, it doesn't really deteriorate. And especially close languages lift each other up a lot too. I've actually pushed a few more unusual words into my active vocabulary in English by learning French - they simply seem more natural to me now! Spanish and French is also a good combination like that! That said, one really has to make sure not to let it slip too much: My native German for example is actually somewhat rusty because I have been using it only once a week for like 10 years. I often hunt for words or start sentences that I could only finish in English. Active skills really suffer a lot from lack of maintenance whereas passive skills don't suffer so much. It only needs two weeks of all day use and I'm back to "normal" though, which is somewhat reassuring!
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Re: The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

Postby Cavesa » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:29 pm

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

You are absolutely awesome!!!!!

Thanks for the inspiration and another motivation boost, I really need those. It is great to see people break through these walls, that gives me a tiny bit of hope that I might do so too. :-)

Really. I feel like opening my books and studying more, thank you. The loneliness of my task is a major obstacle, so it is great to see someone I can relate to at least partially. Thanks
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Re: The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

Postby whatiftheblog » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:20 am

Cavesa wrote:CONGRATULATIONS!!!

You are absolutely awesome!!!!!

Thanks for the inspiration and another motivation boost, I really need those. It is great to see people break through these walls, that gives me a tiny bit of hope that I might do so too. :-)

Really. I feel like opening my books and studying more, thank you. The loneliness of my task is a major obstacle, so it is great to see someone I can relate to at least partially. Thanks


Aww, thanks, Cavesa! :D I'm glad you've found your groove again. Is this for your Spanish, German, or both (all)?

I still have a VERY long road ahead, not least of all logistically - moving your entire life across an ocean is kind of a big deal, it turns out! I'm ironing out the big details right now, but I've been so busy that I realized I forgot to even tell my dad I got in. That's going to need a better excuse, oops.

Language-wise, my consumption has actually dropped considerably over the past few days, I think also largely due to the fact that I let myself actually go out and enjoy my life (in English), see friends, watch Dunkirk. I will absolutely need to get back on board starting tomorrow, no excuses - I have a few days' worth of programs and podcasts to catch up on, and at least two books to finish. I plan on returning to my full throttle 8-10-hours / day schedule, since I have a lot of life management to do in French now (emailing prospective landlords, for one!) and I'll have to get on board super quickly once there since my program is so interactive - no lectures, only cases, simulations, trainings, that sort of thing. Definitely can't sit this one out.

Aside: Mitterrand's letters to Anne Pingeot are exquisite.

Separately, France was recently the world's top tourist destination, which aligns perfectly with what I talked about in my interview, so I think I'll be trying to build a projet professionnel around/within some part of the tourism industry. Once I'm all squared away with paperwork and legality, hopefully by December, I'll start sending out internship applications, which will be a whole new mountain to climb - I'll keep y'all posted.

That said, having a CV that's already good to go was one really nice benefit of the application process for this school. I can go into more detail on this if anyone's particularly interested, but my one key piece of advice would be to replace all starting verbs in your original CV with nouns (développement, lancement, réalisation, gestion, mise en oeuvre, etc). Even though it seems like it shouldn't make any difference, it made it so much easier for me to formulate the rest of each bullet point for some reason.

For the lettre de motivation, I'd say the same rules apply as in any other language, just use nicely formulated connectors and clauses. I used my tried and true structure of I'm applying to your senior underwater basketweaving position, very brief summary, hence why I would be perfect for you, here's what I do now, I used to do X and Y, but now I'm seeking Z, so behold me, address keywords from job description, thanks very much, I remain your humble servant, bisous ciao. There are about seventy gazillion sites with sample hello/goodbye phrasing for all sorts of official correspondence to all manner of people, and each one will tell you that the other is wrong, or that you're not supposed to use this particular thing when you're an unmarried woman writing to a man of unknown marital status or whatever. It's crazy. I wouldn't use Linguee for this, too much informal material mixed in, but any "guide" coming from a reputable publication like Le Monde or Le Nouvel Obs is usually fine. Beware of overstepping into prostration territory, where you are prayerfully requesting that they may so kindly accept the expression of your most sincere sentiments - this is where you should probably stop.

Separately, I discovered that the French StackExchange board is actually quite helpful, especially when it's a question posed by natives: https://french.stackexchange.com/ Look for the answer with the most upvotes.
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Re: The great push to C2 (Extra French Edition)

Postby whatiftheblog » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:49 am

I was quite concerned that introducing even moderate amounts of English into my life to supplant AFATT would negatively affect my ability to express myself in French; fortunately, seems like I was wrong. I caught up on about 5 hours of political talk shows and documentaries (in my field!) in my queue today, and afterwards just hammered out a template letter to prospective landlords (and emailed three of them!), with this net scheduled to be extended tomorrow. In all, seems like I've finally gotten to "maintenance" stage, where it's safe to drop a bit and nothing happens. I'm still constantly trying to insert French words into English sentences, with different phrases taking over at different times - currently I keep trying to have things "s'averer" as something else, for instance. So long as it stays dominant in my brain until my move, I think I'll be good to go. :D
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