French modified "magic pill" experiment

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
maschingon
Yellow Belt
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:57 am
Location: Mérida, YUC, México
Languages: Spanish [C2], Portuguese [B2? C1 writing? no idea], Chinese [high intermediate level, no idea specifically]
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3906
x 33

Re: French modified "magic pill" experiment

Postby maschingon » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:32 pm

(I edited my initial post as can be seen below, because it was obviously written very poorly and confusing people... My bad)


maschingon wrote:Hello all,

[[edited for clarity --> while a liberal arts education did wonders for my intellect and critical thinking ability, at the ripe age of 23 I've come to the harsh realization that the world is not full of professors: NOBODY WILL READ AND GIVE FEEDBACK ON MY ESSAYS. And understandably so --> ain't nobody got time for that (English learners: "ain't nobody got" is an incorrect [ehh politically turbulent comment there] way to say "nobody has")]]

As I see it, the goal of life is to find true happiness as a result of the following process: discover your passion, find where that passion intersects the worlds great need, become as much of an expert in that area as you possibly can, and then put that expertise at the service of as many other people as possible (Credit to Lin Maranda, Sergio Fernández and a professor Michael Armstrong for that realization).

In May, I graduated from Wesleyan University (CT), and after having been a 6-days-per-week hardcore tennis player since the age of 8, and surrounded by school my whole life, and being the naïve young person that I am, I am literally bursting at the seams with the desire to effect great change in this world.

I planned to go to medical school my whole life; I completed the pre-med track early in college with flying colors, and with my non-stop work ethic, I could theoretically go to tons of medical schools. However, I don't want to apply anywhere, because I'm not passionate about medicine.

What I see as the world's great problem (or at least in America), and what makes me want to drive a fist through the wall, are two things:
1) 99.99 % of people think language learning is too hard/boring, and/or that they specifically are genetically predisposed to be awful language learners (**not the people on this forum; you guys obviously have special genes :lol: ). But the worst is the following:
2) They have no idea what they're missing as a result.

And it's not their fault; it is the fault of the way language education is set up in America: through years of worksheets, limited to no access to native media, and worst of all, through graded assignments, language education has not only failed to teach us languages, but has completely destroyed intrinsic motivation for us to continue learning, burying our love of cultures and thus languages deep, deep within us, to the point that it is now *almost* inextractable.

After spending the last three years and more specifically the last 5 months obsessively trying to figure out the key to language learning, I'm ecstatic to have convinced two of my friends to undertake a language learning project/experiment with me, based on what I have concocted (I'll explain my journey at the bottom for those who might be interested).

The goal of the experiment will be to work TOWARDS becoming fluent in French by using TV shows and songs as our curriculum, spending as much time enjoying and as little time "cheating" [reference to emk] as possible, while still Cheating very effectively. We are in the process of organizing a shared "Quip", which will be the control center for our experiment.

The **basic outline** of the method to be used is as follows:

1. Get brought up to speed (no pun intended) on the sounds of the language
2. Learn a bunch of basic words with ANKI.
3. Use a basic cartoon series and a modified setup of Subs2SRS cards, learn all high frequency vocab through ANKI, as well as all high frequency grammar.

[3.333]. For as long as we want, we will use parallel translations of the transcript to increase understanding of the French (i.e., cheat), thereby increasing enjoyment of the plotline, and thus (hopefully) maintaining motivation.

[3.667]. HOWEVER, we will leave all English OFF of the SRS flashcards to make sure we strengthen French-French understanding, not the initial English-French / French English connection.

4. Starting in a few weeks, we'll begin writing daily journal entries on iTalki, moving all corrections to SRS.
5. Once cartoon becomes easy/boring, we'll slightly lower the frequency range and switch to a different and/or more challenging series, putting vocab and grammar from relevant frequency range into ANKI.
6. Once we are somewhat comfortable with the language, we'll begin scheduling iTalki speaking sessions once or twice a week.

Due to my French selection, one forumster ("forero"?, well, "forera"...) previously commented something like "you want your methods to work more than for them to be theoretically sound". I see what she meant; I do indeed have a fiery desire for them to work, but only because I also have a fiery belief in their theoretical soundness, based on 3 years of non-stop research, my personal failures/successes in that time, having talked to thousands of people in the streets, and having a logical brain that unfortunately is turned on 24/7 (it's a blessing and a curse...). Consider this:

The limiting reagent of a language learner's success is motivation. This is not to say that methods don't matter, because they 100% do. But if motivation isn't present, methods will fail, regardless of how good they are. If you look back on your own past failures and successes, you'll probably realize that this was the case, and it is the reason why language education has failed to help students learn languages.

As such, the "forera" (forumster? forum-goer?) was correct in that due my hardfast belief and desire for it to work, it WILL work; I could listen to a "dictionary on tape" and still succeed if I believed in it enough. Therefore, regardless of if I learn French or if I learn Arabic, I will succeed due to my motivation.

In other words, testing my methods on myself is an invalid experiment.

My friends, on the other hand, have experienced only failures: one learnt French to a low intermediate level in middle/high school, and the other took 2 years of college Spanish and 7 days of Rosetta Stone french (lol). As such, maintaining their motivation will be vital to their success, and will be the ultimate challenge.

If you're interested in my personal story, here it is:

To make a long story short, after 1.5 years of college and 8 years of Spanish classes, I was unable to do much more than conjugate verbs. I went to Puerto Vallarta with my family, and the day before leaving I left my passport in a taxi and had to go on a wild goose chase to track it down. We finally tracked it down and had to bribe the guy 70 dollars to get it back, but not after I embarassed myself countless times by trying to speak, and failing, and then completely failing to understand responses. THE most embarassing day of my life.

I then vowed to learn Spanish as quickly and thoroughly as possible, and I fell in love with language learning in the process: after 5 months of nonstop Spanish rap music, telenovela episodes, and writing corrections, I was more fluent than I thought possible. THEN I studied abroad in Mexico, where I accidentally wrote a 150 page Slang dictionary, and went on to write a 120 page thesis (in Spanish) about the history of slang collection.

Since then, I've tried to learn Portuguese and Chinese, taking university classes and losing motivation and quitting, learning on my own with varying successes, and then finally about 5 months ago I returned to learning from TV shows and rap music, and my success skyrocketed. I won't detail those journeys because I haven't been working on them, because for the last 3 months I've been obsessively concocting a "magic pill" method for more Americans (and the world) to learn languages, and more importantly, allow Americans to discover how fun and effective language learning can actually be.
0 x
Michael King (seudónimos: Miguel Rey / Miguel Rei / 金一迈)

maschingon
Yellow Belt
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:57 am
Location: Mérida, YUC, México
Languages: Spanish [C2], Portuguese [B2? C1 writing? no idea], Chinese [high intermediate level, no idea specifically]
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3906
x 33

Re: French modified Subs2SRS "magic pill" experiment

Postby maschingon » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:42 pm



Great links!!! I'll check all of these out. I'm trying to figure if any have accurate subtitles, the ones for "les Mystérieuses cités d'or" seem accurate as far as I can tell, but I highly doubt they are, and I speak 0 french... haha
0 x
Michael King (seudónimos: Miguel Rey / Miguel Rei / 金一迈)

User avatar
reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
x 6554

Re: French modified "magic pill" experiment

Postby reineke » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:05 pm

Auto-generated trash. Peppa Pig is great too but the trick is not to bore yourself out of your wits with this type of programming. Cartoon characters are often motormouths. Don't confuse adult content with advanced level of language skill. Regardless of the type of content, sometimes you'll need to cover 2 hours of material to get 20 minutes of i+1. Vocabulary learning strategies may be of help but I don't like cramming words out of context. Good luck and have fun.
4 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4823

Re: French modified Subs2SRS "magic pill" experiment

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:39 pm

Granted it's an old (and very useful) post, but this link is door nail, as in "dead as a door nail."
0 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

Arnaud
Blue Belt
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:57 am
Location: Paris, France
Languages: Native: French
Intermediate: English, Russian, Italian
Tourist : Breton, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, German, Spanish, Latin
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=1524
x 2172

Re: French modified "magic pill" experiment

Postby Arnaud » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:46 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:
Granted it's an old (and very useful) post, but this link is door nail, as in "dead as a door nail."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4t9Lq ... NSkUS4IKhf
2 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4823

Re: French modified Subs2SRS "magic pill" experiment

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:47 pm


Looking back in time at French cartoons. This is a nice list from Reineke that deserves another look. But note that the link to Clémentine no longer works.
0 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4823

Re: French modified "magic pill" experiment

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:23 pm

Arnaud wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:
Granted it's an old (and very useful) post, but this link is door nail, as in "dead as a door nail."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4t9Lq ... NSkUS4IKhf

Thanks!
0 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

User avatar
reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
x 6554

Re: French modified "magic pill" experiment

Postby reineke » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:49 pm

The idea was to introduce people to some old time favorites that were popular in France with the Club Dorothée generation. The links are almost a year old but they all work except for Clémentine. Arnaud's link is down too but Amazon is accepting orders.

Another rec:

Rémi Sans Famille

"Dessin animé japonais tiré d'un roman français (Sans famille d'Hector Malot) et diffusé sur toutes les chaines françaises depuis 1982."

The cartoon has been legally uploaded to youtube in HD:

French
https://youtu.be/FJP4Nx6vzVM?list=PLaMz ... rCr-XZ6E1N

You can find the Spanish version on the official channel.
1 x

User avatar
Adrianslont
Blue Belt
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:39 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), Learning Indonesian and French
x 1936

Re: French modified "magic pill" experiment

Postby Adrianslont » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:30 am

reineke wrote:The idea was to introduce people to some old time favorites that were popular in France with the Club Dorothée generation. The links are almost a year old but they all work except for Clémentine. Arnaud's link is down too but Amazon is accepting orders.

Another rec:

Rémi Sans Famille

"Dessin animé japonais tiré d'un roman français (Sans famille d'Hector Malot) et diffusé sur toutes les chaines françaises depuis 1982."

The cartoon has been legally uploaded to youtube in HD:

French
https://youtu.be/FJP4Nx6vzVM?list=PLaMz ... rCr-XZ6E1N

You can find the Spanish version on the official channel.

Unfortunately that Rémi playlist is not available in Australia.

Good to see you back, reineke.
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests