Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

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Xenops
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:02 pm

I had a setback with Anki loosing about 170 cards (counting both sides), but I'll probably pick that again soon.

Lately I have been feeling overwhelmed with all of the projects I want to get done (a complete list can be found here: http://hestia-edwards.deviantart.com/journal/A-Different-Approach-684542172 ) , and I'm terrible at multi-tasking: I can only do a few projects in a time frame. It's difficult for me to switch gears between projects (as much as I love Professor Arguelles' ideas, with spending 15 minutes each on 20+ languages...That would not work for me). For the purpose of this forum, I find it hard to juggle upper-beginning French and upper-beginner Japanese in the time frame I have (with my full-time internship). I remember iguanaman saying something like "there hasn't been any member that juggled multiple beginner languages and took them to fluency". Maybe there has been people that have done that, but I imagine the number of such people is small.

So inspired by smallwhite's approach (she says it's due to wander-lust, not any particular method), I thought I would try it: dedicate so many weeks to intensely studying one thing. So for the month of June, I'll study French intensely, and see how it goes. I imagine I could reach a B1 level by summer time if I focused. Key word here: focus.

As for goals for languages, I confess that I don't have the clear-cut goals I had before. I remember zenmonkey's words in the immigration thread: "stop playing with different languages and focus!" My goals earlier where to immigrate to Europe, and now I'm not so sure. Plus, it seems a little silly to plan to immigrate to somewhere I have not yet been. ;) Going on a faith-bent, I know I am supposed to study French and I'm free to study Japanese, I just don't know what the future holds for these. I've had the dream of being a polyglot, but reality has hit me recently: I'll be fluent in 4 languages at most in my life, not likely more than that. With making comics being a huge project, and taking much of my free time, studying multiple languages isn't happening.

I do know, however, that France and Japan are the two biggest consumers of comics: what if I'm to learn these respective languages to reach these huge potential audiences? Also the most visited art site in the world (according to an Alexa-type site) is [url]pixiv.net[/url] , a predominantly Japanese site.

So my current goal is this: to reach a fluency level in French and Japanese so I can translate my comics in the respective languages with only some help. And the sooner, the better. 8-)

Well, time to go study.
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:11 pm

Morgana wrote:
Xenops wrote:Lately I have been feeling overwhelmed with all of the projects I want to get done (a complete list can be found here: http://hestia-edwards.deviantart.com/journal/A-Different-Approach-684542172 ) , and I'm terrible at multi-tasking: I can only do a few projects in a time frame. It's difficult for me to switch gears between projects (as much as I love Professor Arguelles' ideas, with spending 15 minutes each on 20+ languages...That would not work for me).


This post is so relatable. It is so easy at times to have lots of ideas and goals, and a whole other issue actually realizing them. (And you definitely have a lot going on in that list!) I had just recently come across that post by Arguelles, and it made me feel a small pang of ambition before realizing that it's just not how I work. I think we all have to honor ourselves that way, and recognize what works best in particular circumstances.


Thank you for the visit Morgana, and welcome to the forum!

Morgana wrote:
Xenops wrote:So inspired by smallwhite's approach (she says it's due to wander-lust, not any particular method), I thought I would try it: dedicate so many weeks to intensely studying one thing. So for the month of June, I'll study French intensely, and see how it goes. I imagine I could reach a B1 level by summer time if I focused. Key word here: focus.


It's ten days in, how is it going? IME, you do make some good jumps in progress when you cut away the clutter and focus in on one thing. I hope it is feeling that way for you!

Good luck with all of your goals, in whatever order they happen! I'll be following your log, because I rather enjoy reading experiences with learning French, even though I'm not (currently) pursuing it.


Well, the first thing I've noticed is that I'm happier. :D I might have to extend the deadline to the end of July, because with my internship and the hour commute each way, I have not gotten much done. I find that Pimsleur while driving puts me to sleep (bad!) and I can only pay so much attention to a podcast or Michel Thomas' courses while driving. So far I've done more on the weekend, which isn't very much. This coming week and the week after will be my last two weeks with a long commute, and then I'll have an 8 minute commute (much better!)

As for updates, I'm expecting to finish French in Action chapter 7 today. This week I have been further researching the methods of Wyner and khatzumoto, and it sounds like Anki works very well for gaining passive knowledge, and as the former says,

It is generally far for more important to understand other people, than to make yourself understood. It’s fine if you can ask for directions, but if you can’t understand the response…might as well take the next train to Whatsthepointville. More broadly—the simple fact that you are outnumbered 1 to several billion, means that you’re going to spend much of your life receiving input;; there are more people, books and videos than there are of you. If you are to function as an independent, mature adult in any society, then it is imperative, I mean, really, really, important, that you fully understand the written and spoken input of the world around you.
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/10000-sentences-how/



This made me realize that I don't have a poor memory: I just have an average memory. I had expected that if I put a word in Anki, I should be able to put it immediately into active memory: but now I know that Anki works for gaining passive knowledge. The quote above makes me feel better. I remember also that when Wyner was tested for his French level at Middlebury, he didn't speak a lot, but he understood what the proctor was saying, and could respond accordingly. His passive knowledge was much greater than his active knowledge, and that's what helped him.

With this news about passive knowledge, I know have a better game plan: do French in Action on the weekends, and especially when my commutes shorten, find sentences with audio and put them into Anki during the week. As much as it has been a hassle with the loss of decks and configuring it, I still prefer it over Memrise, even though as far as premade SRS goes, I think Memrise does a lovely job. my sources of sentences will be Assimil, French in Action, and La Bible (I recently discovered that the 1910 is not the most recent translation, but they have a 1979 revised translation with sound, too. Yay!).
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Cavesa » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:05 pm

Xenops wrote:For the purpose of this forum, I find it hard to juggle upper-beginning French and upper-beginner Japanese in the time frame I have (with my full-time internship). I remember iguanaman saying something like "there hasn't been any member that juggled multiple beginner languages and took them to fluency". Maybe there has been people that have done that, but I imagine the number of such people is small.

There is Expugnator, who is finally harvesting the fruits of his long hard work on several languages from zero at once (with the language list being pretty adventurous). But we can't all be like him. Juggling "just" French and Japanese is definitely nothing to feel ashamed of :-)

So inspired by smallwhite's approach (she says it's due to wander-lust, not any particular method), I thought I would try it: dedicate so many weeks to intensely studying one thing. So for the month of June, I'll study French intensely, and see how it goes. I imagine I could reach a B1 level by summer time if I focused. Key word here: focus.

I am growing in love with your log, I should follow your example and get my German finally to a presentable level.

So my current goal is this: to reach a fluency level in French and Japanese so I can translate my comics in the respective languages with only some help. And the sooner, the better. 8-)

Not that I wanted to undermine your clear focus on two languages, but Poland is becoming a pretty big and interesting market for comic books. Their own production is growing and it is quite interesting, but comic books are read fast, so I suppose fans there can't get enough translated works.

Xenops wrote:Well, the first thing I've noticed is that I'm happier. :D I might have to extend the deadline to the end of July, because with my internship and the hour commute each way, I have not gotten much done. I find that Pimsleur while driving puts me to sleep (bad!) and I can only pay so much attention to a podcast or Michel Thomas' courses while driving. So far I've done more on the weekend, which isn't very much. This coming week and the week after will be my last two weeks with a long commute, and then I'll have an 8 minute commute (much better!)

Awesome! That's the best state of mind for trully progressing.
I find it a bit hard to do interactive stuff on commutes, either I want to focus on the road (when I am rarely driving), or there is the unhappy word "public" in the term "public transport". But what I found useful was simply listening to my audio recordings that came with a course. We often look so hard for external supplements and highly active stuff to do, that we overlook some basics. I really found it made a difference, when I was relistening to my Assimil German lessons eons ago. It works with any course, not just Assimil. Just an idea.


This made me realize that I don't have a poor memory: I just have an average memory. I had expected that if I put a word in Anki, I should be able to put it immediately into active memory: but now I know that Anki works for gaining passive knowledge. The quote above makes me feel better. I remember also that when Wyner was tested for his French level at Middlebury, he didn't speak a lot, but he understood what the proctor was saying, and could respond accordingly. His passive knowledge was much greater than his active knowledge, and that's what helped him.

It is generally far for more important to understand other people, than to make yourself understood.

Where can I sign this? :-D That's why I find tons of input to be crutial for learning.
I totally agree. While I find Anki useful for active knowledge (it depends on the direction), I find writing more efficient (Memrise, Clozemaster). Perhaps you'd like those too. For Japanese learners, there is as well Scritter. Anyone with a normal memory (I mean a non-pathologic one) surely finds it helpful to actively use the new bits of knowledge. I find writing in SRS helpful, bet there are surely more options.

With this news about passive knowledge, I know have a better game plan: do French in Action on the weekends, and especially when my commutes shorten, find sentences with audio and put them into Anki during the week. As much as it has been a hassle with the loss of decks and configuring it, I still prefer it over Memrise, even though as far as premade SRS goes, I think Memrise does a lovely job. my sources of sentences will be Assimil, French in Action, and La Bible (I recently discovered that the 1910 is not the most recent translation, but they have a 1979 revised translation with sound, too. Yay!).

Sounds great!
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby smallwhite » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:00 pm

Cavesa wrote:
Xenops wrote:For the purpose of this forum, I find it hard to juggle upper-beginning French and upper-beginner Japanese in the time frame I have (with my full-time internship). I remember iguanaman saying something like "there hasn't been any member that juggled multiple beginner languages and took them to fluency". Maybe there has been people that have done that, but I imagine the number of such people is small.

There is Expugnator, who is finally harvesting the fruits of his long hard work on several languages from zero at once (with the language list being pretty adventurous). But we can't all be like him. Juggling "just" French and Japanese is definitely nothing to feel ashamed of :-)

I'm pretty sure Iguanamon said there hasn't been any MONOLINGUAL who blah blah blah.
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:47 am

Morgana wrote:First of all, thank you for the welcome! :D I'm glad you're happier! I've noticed that effect as well, combined with some initial relief when you realize you don't need to be split in all directions. It's too bad about Pimsleur. Does it have that effect in other situations as well? (For the record, Pimsleur has a similar effect on me.)


I'm in best form when I use it while walking. :) I find I need to be doing something active. Doing chores also works.

Morgana wrote:I think it was on this forum where I first read about passive vs. active knowledge, and that even native speakers have a much greater passive vocabulary than active? In any case, I find with Anki I really have to drill material in with increasing the number of "learning steps" from Anki's default, before the card graduates to review, and even then I still sometimes forget. Good luck with your sentence work!


Thank you! Yes, I find I have to drill things, too.

Cavesa wrote:There is Expugnator, who is finally harvesting the fruits of his long hard work on several languages from zero at once (with the language list being pretty adventurous). But we can't all be like him. Juggling "just" French and Japanese is definitely nothing to feel ashamed of :-)

Thank you for the visit Cavesa. :) Indeed, I would consider him closer to the ranks of Arguelles than a mere mortal like myself. :lol:

Cavesa wrote:Not that I wanted to undermine your clear focus on two languages, but Poland is becoming a pretty big and interesting market for comic books. Their own production is growing and it is quite interesting, but comic books are read fast, so I suppose fans there can't get enough translated works.


I've had the pleasure of hearing Polish in person, and I must say it sounds beautiful. :) The spelling almost looks as scary as Czech, though. ;)

Cavesa wrote:Awesome! That's the best state of mind for trully progressing.
I find it a bit hard to do interactive stuff on commutes, either I want to focus on the road (when I am rarely driving), or there is the unhappy word "public" in the term "public transport". But what I found useful was simply listening to my audio recordings that came with a course. We often look so hard for external supplements and highly active stuff to do, that we overlook some basics. I really found it made a difference, when I was relistening to my Assimil German lessons eons ago. It works with any course, not just Assimil. Just an idea.


Thank you for the ideas: I've downloaded the FiA dialogues for that purpose, I just need to use them. ;)


Cavesa wrote:Where can I sign this? :-D That's why I find tons of input to be crutial for learning.
I totally agree. While I find Anki useful for active knowledge (it depends on the direction), I find writing more efficient (Memrise, Clozemaster). Perhaps you'd like those too. For Japanese learners, there is as well Scritter. Anyone with a normal memory (I mean a non-pathologic one) surely finds it helpful to actively use the new bits of knowledge. I find writing in SRS helpful, bet there are surely more options.


I do need to write more--that's how I did so well in Spanish in high school, I wrote my fantasy stories in Spanglish. Now it's time for Frenglish. :)

smallwhite wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
Xenops wrote:For the purpose of this forum, I find it hard to juggle upper-beginning French and upper-beginner Japanese in the time frame I have (with my full-time internship). I remember iguanaman saying something like "there hasn't been any member that juggled multiple beginner languages and took them to fluency". Maybe there has been people that have done that, but I imagine the number of such people is small.

There is Expugnator, who is finally harvesting the fruits of his long hard work on several languages from zero at once (with the language list being pretty adventurous). But we can't all be like him. Juggling "just" French and Japanese is definitely nothing to feel ashamed of :-)

I'm pretty sure Iguanamon said there hasn't been any MONOLINGUAL who blah blah blah.


Oooh! Does this mean that because I (previously) got my Spanish to a B2 level, that I don't count in his statistic? Score! :mrgreen:
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby smallwhite » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Xenops wrote:
smallwhite wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
Xenops wrote:For the purpose of this forum, I find it hard to juggle upper-beginning French and upper-beginner Japanese in the time frame I have (with my full-time internship). I remember iguanaman saying something like "there hasn't been any member that juggled multiple beginner languages and took them to fluency". Maybe there has been people that have done that, but I imagine the number of such people is small.

There is Expugnator, who is finally harvesting the fruits of his long hard work on several languages from zero at once (with the language list being pretty adventurous). But we can't all be like him. Juggling "just" French and Japanese is definitely nothing to feel ashamed of :-)

I'm pretty sure Iguanamon said there hasn't been any MONOLINGUAL who blah blah blah.


Oooh! Does this mean that because I (previously) got my Spanish to a B2 level, that I don't count in his statistic? Score! :mrgreen:

Yes, but I'm also pretty sure Iguanamon would have another statistic to cover you if you don't behave.
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:15 am

I have come to a conclusion: as much as I like the concept of Anki, as much as I see that it makes a difference, as much as I know Gabriel Wyner uses it for his success...I don't find it fun. I find it work. As a result, I don't study French as much as I should. So today I have been looking at Iversen's method and the old blog of Tarvos. I think what appealed to me about Wyner's method is that he has a very detailed game-plan, and it doesn't necessarily involve learning to speak right away.

Now I'm pondering: how did I remember Spanish so well in high school? Aside from class:

1. I wrote my fantasy stories in Spanglish, almost on a nightly basis
2. I had blue sheets for vocabulary and green sheets for grammar (and pink for odds-and-ends), and referred to them regularly.

Anki I imagine I will use to study my boards, because it seems like what I need to know for medical laboratory science is nothing but a bunch of random information. It would help if I got better familiarity with the physiology, though.

For other news, I'm looking into finding a job on the East Coast: I will update when I know something. ;)
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:11 am

Well, I have bad news and good news. I'll start with the bad news.

The bad news is that I really should focus on my boards exam for medical laboratory science for the month of July. Without it, my dreams of moving to the East Coast are...Toast, even more so for moving overseas.

The good news is that I gave detailed info about my experience to the recruiter, and things should be moving forward about moving to the East. :D And in August, I'll return to language study! Woot!

Just one more month...
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:07 am

I applied to take the ASCP BOC exam, and I am eligible to take it between August 5th and November 3rd. I would like to take it sooner and be done with it, but I'd rather take it with some confidence. So I must put off serious language study for a little while. :cry: I have been doing Japanese Pimsleur while doing chores, and I thought this might be a good time to work on French pronunciation when I'm not studying biology.

For other news, I decided to apply to jobs on my own along with the recruiter, as my parents pointed out, "they might be trying to get you hired for jobs nobody else wants". Conversely, people in the medical laboratory profession thought that the recruiter is a good idea. Hopefully I get a job either way.

An interesting development happened: I don't mind Spanish like I used to. For whatever reason, I could not find the Pokemon Indigo season with original Japanese audio with the later episodes, and since I can't stand the American dub, I watched it in Spanish with Spanish subtitles. :lol: At least, as many as Netflix had. Upon some Googling, I found the French dub, sadly with no subtitles, but I could follow the general drift of the story. I've now watched Pokemon in English, Spanish, Japanese and French. ;)
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Re: Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

Postby Xenops » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:40 am

I have a phone interview from Connecticut on the 28th. :mrgreen: My recruiter is also starting to look for jobs.

I finally watched Stranger Things on Netflix, but in dubbed French. The French subtitles didn't match, so I used English subtitles. Despite the dialogue not always matching the mouth movements, I thought the dubbing was spot on for the characters. Dustin, with his lack of front teeth, had a lisp; Jonathan had a quiet, kindly voice; I can't imagine Nancy having any other voice; the voice actresses for El/Onze and the mom (spacing out on her name) were incredible, and matched the physical acting well. I was really surprised at the quality of the dubbing, since it was just a Netflix release, and the English dubbing for anime almost always sounds pathetic (Disney can sometimes round up decent voice actors, but not always).

The story was good too. ;)
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