The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

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The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:06 pm

Welcome everyone to my 2nd learner's log, where I will document my upcoming brand new language journey in quest of Korean.

Korean will be my first fresh undertaking in language learning since 2013. As most of you know, I have had my hands quite full in learning Mandarin Chinese from zero hour up. I now feel the time has yet again come to invite a new challenge. Ever since I have seriously studied languages in a primarily autodidact fashion, I have thus far had the privilege of experiencing the following great milestones:

2010 - German Language (Jan 2010 - March 2011; Dec 2011 - April 2012) -- to B2
2011 - Portuguese Language (March 2011 - July 2011 - June 2012 - August 2012) -- to B2
2011 - French Language (July 2011 - December 2011; April 2012 - June 2012) -- to high B2
2013 - Mandarin Chinese (March 2013 - September 2013; January 2015 - Present) -- mid B1
2016** - Korean Language (August 2016 - ) -- A0

The dates in parenthesis are the time periods when I studied those languages exclusively. For a big part of 2012, and all of 2013 and the first half of 2014, I studied French and German in a rotating schedule that went from a few weeks to eventually a few days. In between, I would mix Portuguese at times to the rotation. In the second half of 2014, I did work in German, French, and Beginner's Mandarin. In terms of medium term plans, I am still fully and wholeheartedly committed to my Hindi project, it just will have a bit of a later starting date.

That's the overall background. Now to Korean. Why Korean, why now? It is just a matter of both allure and practicality.

Why the allure? Basically, due to the friendships I have made here in China with Koreans, who have been mainly affable, warmhearted, and polite. They thus attracted me to their culture, and obviously, I want to learn to speak to them in their native language. Simple as that.

Practicality? I get a huge vocabulary discount from my increasingly solid Chinese lexicon, English words abound, plus modern Korea has switched to using Hangul almost exclusively, which is an alphabetic script that can be learned in 72 hours. Both of these facts will save the me countless hours I have (and still am), spending learning Chinese vocabulary and characters. Finally, with tons of friends to practice with in the near term, and a few who are willing to invest time to help me for free, to not use this window of opportunity while it is open would haunt me well after it is gone.

So that is the intro. I will in the next few days and weeks, before really beginning my studies, issue some other thoughts, introduce my learning materials, and ask for suggestions in terms of courses, online material, as well as any tips from fellow Forumites who have been on the road I am about to tread.

If I may be allowed some literary discretion, I should rather just say that on my way to the Chinese Galaxy, through my starship's window I glimpsed the "Great Korean Spiral Arm". I have now decided to explore it. I have done this four times before, but every new time is just as exciting as all the others, and as before still causes some apprehension! But the decision is made. Setting course。。。

안녕하세요 ! (of course ;) )
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:19 am

So even before choosing materials and a routine, I have a really "big picture" consideration I have been ruminating hither and thither in the run-up to starting this log.

How will I approach the systematic study of Korean?

This is the crux of the matter: I don't intend to study Korean all day for the next 6 months. Simply because I can't. My priority still remains Mandarin as long as I am in China. So the bulk of my days I will be working on my push to B2 (I am mid B1, but that is slightly conservative, when reading and when conversing on familiar topics I probably am at basic B2, I just always give my language level based on my weakest link).

So I am thinking about 60 to 90 minutes a day, every day, on Korean. Three days a week add an extra hour with a native, and then off course any extra time with Koreans out in the streets of the university that may elicit striking up a conversation if I can manage it. I need to make those minutes very productive. I am thinking about a total departure from my prior language learning, which was very methodical and incremental in the grammar and vocabulary, while at the same time immediately jumping to native media for listening and leisure reading (Mandarin having been the exception since the Characters presented a barrier to immediate immersion). This is what my sketch looks like:

Step A: Go through a round of solid pronunciation training. This part is unchanged from my prior four languages, since I really focus on good habits in pronouncing at the beginning, even if dull as an activity, since it really pays very high dividends the rest of your language speaking days. So this step is unchanged. That said, I am thinking of using my course's vocabulary list as pronunciation practice, while at the same time simply memorizing the vocabulary as I go along practicing the sounds. I have not done it like this before. The point here is to not be bogged down by vocabulary learning when I start going through the course. While doing this I would get familiar with Hangul by osmosis. Three birds with one stone??

Step B: When I start the course, I am thinking of quickly going through the entire textbook once, and reading the grammar points. Then deciding which ones I find "familiar", which ones I find "alien" or rather complicated. I highlight those points, and then simply focus on those areas in my study time and with my tutor. In other words, I am falling back on grammar knowledge from other languages, hoping most grammar points I have seen before elsewhere thus saving time, and only emphasizing spending time on grammar points more unique to Korean and mastering them. In essence, I am just getting to the bare bones.

Step C: with the vocabulary of the textbook familiar, I would go through a frequency list (Anyone know of a good one for Korean?), focusing on words that have multiple meanings. Biting the bullet and just nailing down in my brain the most frequent 1000 words should open reading, which would then help me assimilate the grammar, reinforce vocabulary building, and help me with listening.

Step D: Listen to Korean from the beginning or no? I still don't know the answer. If I can find very simple programming or content I am leaning to a yes.

Stpe E: Just talk to Koreans, practice with my tutor as soon as possible.

The bottom line here is, I want to "cheat" as much as possible to save time yet make headway, all while still seriously respecting the language, which still remains a Category 5 language for English learners, and it is from a new family branch from my perspective (my third family branch, Indo-European and Sino-Tibetan being the ones I have studied thus far). My attempt to save time is not an indication of some complacency or exaggerated assurance Korean will not be difficult, it is just my reality of time constraints, as well as my desire to be more efficient.

This is also my first agglutinative language. Chinese is primarily non-isolating Analytic, then you have Fusional with analytic traits (English), relational-synthetic Fusional (Spanish, French, Portuguese), and derivation-synthetic Fusional (German). I don't know if there are any things I should look out for because of this as first-time learner of such a language morphology.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby Snow » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:29 pm

You did it! I look forward to reading more of your progress in Korean. Particularly Step A as I've never done that before.

For books, I'd recommend Sogang textbooks. I think they are good for self-study. I find the vocabulary sufficient for daily use of the language. It teaches informal polite level at first, though. Or if you want a grammar book, Korean Grammar in Use looks good, and is available in English, Chinese, and Japanese.

Step D: Definitely listen! There are so many good dramas, shows, songs, etc. It's good to familiarize yourself with Korean intonation.

Do you have a linguistic background? I got lost reading your last paragraph but I'm going to research all those terms.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:16 am

Anyone have any experience with http://www.talktomeinkorean.com or http://www.koreanclass101.com? I wanted to start gathering some resources from the web, I was wondering if anyone had used these sites or any others that can be recommended. I am also looking through Youtube as we speak for a good pronunciation video tutorials.

Snow wrote:You did it! I look forward to reading more of your progress in Korean. Particularly Step A as I've never done that before.

For books, I'd recommend Sogang textbooks. I think they are good for self-study. I find the vocabulary sufficient for daily use of the language. It teaches informal polite level at first, though. Or if you want a grammar book, Korean Grammar in Use looks good, and is available in English, Chinese, and Japanese.

Step D: Definitely listen! There are so many good dramas, shows, songs, etc. It's good to familiarize yourself with Korean intonation.

Do you have a linguistic background? I got lost reading your last paragraph but I'm going to research all those terms.


Thanks a lot! I will right now look into your suggestion. As for listening, I think you are right, I will listen but I do want to keep it simple and watch shows that use every day language. I guess I am in luck with Korean given the abundance of soap operas. I have found soaps are really good, having used them for German, French, and Portuguese. They expose you to modern, stripped down every day language across a spectrum of the society (from old to young, rich to poor, educated to ignorant, since soaps showcase usually a broad spectrum of the society). The scenes also provide various settings from office life to home life, police officers, doctors, fashion designers, sports people, singers, etc. All of that makes the vocabulary exposure very expansive.

I don't have formal studies in linguistics, but I am very much into linguistics, language origins, and somewhat into phonetics.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:08 am

Thanks!Let me keep gathering resources and taking a look at your suggestions, as well as Snow's and any others that may come. Then I will get some plan of attack set in ink.

I use rote for nouns (I just see things and look it up). For adverbs, and basic adjectives I try to learn them through reading exposure. For verbs I just study them in some detail, with sentence examples of their use. Expressions, phrases, proverbs, and set patterns I do combination of rote and ANKI.

May I ask you and Snow how long have you been studying Korean, and if there is one mistake you made you would suggest me to avoid, what would it be?

Edit: Is this Sogang course entirely free and is it online textbook? Just curious.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby Snow » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:56 am

Sogang: There's a free online course (works best in IE like most Koreans websites). The textbooks are not free.

Additional resources:
-Cyber University of Korea's Quick Korean online course. I haven't tried this yet, though.
-Official pronunciation rules
-howtostudykorean.com I don't know how accurate everything is in this site but I use it to look up grammar points sometimes.

I've been watching kdramas for more than a decade :lol: but I've started studying Korean only January of this year. Due to laziness, I still haven't gone through the pronunciation rules in detail. I think going through that quickly can be quite useful in the future. Also, even though I watch a lot of shows, I don't shadow enough. I'll definitely start doing that because Korean has weird intonation/stops/pauses/whatever it's called. And a pet peeve of mine that I see my classmates do: using romanization! I think it's better to write in 한글 to train not only spelling, but also pronunciation. I noticed that those who use romanization can't read Korean text quickly. :roll:

Edit: TTMIK. I tried using this before but I didn't like the extra chatting in the audio. Maybe as the guy above said, just look for the consolidated pdf of the grammar points. I think their Iyagi section is good for listening practice, though.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:37 pm

Out of Korean Grammar in Use, Korean from Zero, and Integrated Korean which is the course that has the best combination of detailed grammar (I like grammar), WITH good cultural topic coverage? Being in China and on the move in about 6 months plus on a budget, I will be forced to choose one of these for now. Also which course takes you the furthest up the CEFR ladder?


+ Korean Language Courses

- Tuttle's Elementary Korean, Continuing Korean, Advanced Korean
- Sogang Korean Series (Not sure where to buy them in China... I have a friend in Korea who is coming to China next month, if the series is worth it I can have the books brought over)
- Korean Grammar in Use
- Korean: A comprehensive Grammar

+ Basic Korean and Pronunciation videos
- http://www.seemile.com
- https://zkorean.com/hangul/appearance

+ Korean Word Frequency Lists
- TOPIK frequency list http://www.topikguide.com/6000-most-common-korean-words-1/
- National Institute of Korean Language https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Frequency_lists/Korean_5800

+ Vocabulary building tools
- Two sets of ANKI Korean vocabulary decks (courtesy of member "Evita" from language-learners.org)

+ Online Korean Resources
- Korean from Zero (online textbooks: http://www.koreanfromzero.com/)
- Click Korean (http://lei.snu.ac.kr/site/en/klec/click-korean/)
- How to Study Korean http://www.howtostudykorean.com/
- Talk to me in Korean [url]Talktomeinkorean.com[/url]
- Still more: Koreanclass101.com, Glossika Korean (for drills) or FSI??

+ Native media and podcasts: periodicals, television, podcasts, blogs, web articles, etc.

- http://www.podbbang.com/ch/6718

+ Tutoring

- Native Korean Tutor lined up for grammar, conversation, and pronunciation guidance

+ Conversational practice with natives
- This is no problem for the next half-year.

+ Cell phone dictionary
- NAVER Korean Dictionary & Translate
Last edited by outcast on Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:33 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby Snow » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:59 am

Well, OP said he'll work with a tutor so I recommended Sogang. True, there's no English in the books except for instructions. But if he can work through Boya Chinese, then he can definitely do an all-Korean series. However, if he plans to get the Tuttle series, then Sogang is not necessary anymore. Also, getting both Tuttle and Integrated Korean series sounds overkill. I don't have any personal experience with both, but he probably can't go wrong with choosing either of the two since both are widely used by universities. For grammar, Korean Grammar in Use looks good but if he wants a more formal resource, look into Yonsei University's Korean Grammar for International Learners. I doubt both books have cultural content, though.

ロータス wrote:Veteran Korean learner: druckfehler: Now log & Past log

Welp, thanks for this! Gonna read his old log from the start.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:31 am

The reason I probably will get Tuttle is because I have a coupon with them, and thus can get on a discounted price. Also, I did enjoy their Chinese Spoken Series so I am willing to give this course a shot.

I actually prefer using two or even three different courses, since they can then plug each other's holes in areas they didn't cover, or cover thoroughly; also one course will be stronger in one section than another, and finally the presentation order of material may be better in one than another. So I am willing to use at least two full-fledged courses. The thing that attracts me to Sogang is that it seems to be fully developed in Korea.

I will carefully read all the reviews for the other books before making decisions. Thanks about Naver, how dumb of me. That's what all the Koreans around here use to learn Chinese, I just forgot it has English-Korean (Japanese and either French or Spanish to Korean no?).
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:57 am

... And of course after trying for better than one hour, I cannot download Naver APP. Google play does not work in my phone here in China, and all other pages seem to want to charge me for the download. I don't get why it is so difficult for me to download anything on my stupid phone. I always have the same problem.

EDIT: finally fixed VPN on phone issue. Can access other sites to get apps that are not android-based. What did Google do to the Chinese...
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"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000


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