The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:43 am

After about 6 weeks of little to no work on Korean, I have finally got the language back in my rotation. I feel I have made enough progress to recover my German and also French that I don't have to devote as much time on just bulk input on them, and I finally bought the actual book titles from Tuttle, Basic and Continuing Korean. So I'm using the Basic book as a review, since a significant if not most of this book will not be new material to me.

Indeed, going through the first 2 lessons on common expressions, and then the next 2 lessons on Hangul, it was literally the case that after 6-7 minutes of some unease with the Hangul writing, my reading started to comeback in cascade reaction. And then many if not most of the phrases became clear because suddenly the individual words making the phrase began to resurface with their actual meanings. Many of the grammar points also have returned. This is great and it means I will probably breeze at least through lesson 10 or 11 of this book without much resistance at all, and probably the entire book as well.

Now I have a lot more audio to practice pronuncation with. There is also a workbook I will probably get, and according to the preface even more audio at a Korean University website that supports the textbook. So I will now use this series to catch up with the language, at the same time I will re-listen and try to master Click Korean's dialogues and vocab. I will also restart my grind to 2000 Korean words that stopped somewhere around 1300, so I will review those entries once and then add new words, while of course going back to the old ones. I will finally also start using Evita's deck to give another entry point into long-term memory for the words. Finally, I will continue using How to Study Korean as a language hack reading, since it is very detailed in grammar and I like grammar; and get extra audio input from Talk to me in Korean (though I can't seem to find a lot of the audio clips so many other users have talked about). Occasionally I will return to Korean from Zero as an additional resource to get another opinion.

Once I feel I have reviewed almost all the things I learned in my first 4+ months of learning Korean from October to February, I will start trying to write very short things in Korean here. Obviously people should expect brief and rudimentary language, not even remotely near what I can and have already written in my German and Chinese logs.

On a note unrelated to Korean, since I have been doing some French all along I have been thinking of doing a dedicated log for it, but I am going to wait a bit more. I opened the Chinese log in December of 2015, the Korean one in July 2016, and the German one in January 2017, so I want to wait at least till May to open the French log. No reason at all other than just to respect the calendar...
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:25 pm

Well, I just went through the 1000 top words on the Topik. It only took me five days, of course far less time than the first time around, and as I am going through it again (remember these 1000 words are force rote memorization), their meanings just come up much quicker now than ever before. I now can again add new words so my signature counter is once again rolling. The new words are coming mainly from my Tuttle textbook.

Speaking of which I have memorized all the phrases from the first two lessons (50 in all), and will go through the expressions in Korean From Zero opening lessons for book one and two once more. These should give me a good arsenal of very basic phrases that I don't have to think about for situations of the most immediate need.

Lessons 3 and 4 deal with Hangul and phonetics, so they are fairly simple (for me who already had extensively and in detail studied them), except for a couple of Sandhi (pronunciation around word boundaries), and intra-word sound changes in Lesson 4 which I had not heard from before, including one about the consonants ㄷ, ㅈ, ㅅ becoming double consonants when they appear after the ㄹ, but only in words of Chinese origin. That will be a tricky one to remember, but I guess I am better equipped than most people to identify a Sino-Korean term.

Lessons 5 and 6 talk about the basics of Korean grammar and virtually all of the material is old news, but sometimes other insights and angles are introduced to the grammar that deepen understanding, which is exactly why I do enjoy consulting multiple sources whenever possible.

Lesson 7 will deal with the verb system, which this course unlike all the others tackles all verbs regular and irregular in one fell-swoop. This is a controversial approach I guess, since it is the first time I see it, and in the preface they even acknowledge this. They call this lesson "Heartbreak Hill", and that if the student cannot get through it, they are doomed in Korean. I found that statement unnecessary and deflating for new students, and if I were the editor I would remove it. But I do respect their decision to just get the verbs done and over with. They claim it is because students will be more willing to bite the bullet early in a course when they are still excited, and also try to recast the irregular verbs as "special patterns", since they believe using the term "irregular verb" ascribes a prejudice of difficulty or intractability to the task. I have to say that in both points, they do have a point. In the end to me it is not too relevant since I already studied the Korean verb system and was beginning to feel comfortable with the tenses (but still troubled with the spelling changes), before my month plus hiatus.

I am hoping in a couple of weeks I have reviewed most material and in fact I am now shooting to finish Elementary Korean the book within this month and then jump to Continuing Korean. At that point, I will begin to write in very simple Korean here. I suddenly feel this urge to force myself to write in all my L2s, because it takes me out of my comfort zone both in task and language.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:39 pm

outcast wrote:
Lesson 7 will deal with the verb system [...]

I am hoping in a couple of weeks I have reviewed most material and in fact I am now shooting to finish Elementary Korean the book within this month and then jump to Continuing Korean. At that point, I will begin to write in very simple Korean here. I suddenly feel this urge to force myself to write in all my L2s, because it takes me out of my comfort zone both in task and language.


Maybe not!!!

I am not the type to make excuses! And people that read my logs know I am extremely unforgiving to myself (on top of demanding). However, I also always said Korean was my "strategic language". I hate to use the term "side language, though it could be seen as that, because I do have significant goals in this language than just some "fun on the side". But I can accept the fact that I stop for 10 weeks because my push to advanced fluency in my core languages was calling to me more. I am not shy to change the path I take to my destination, what I never change is the destination itself.

So given how I was feeling, I had energy to really focus on Chinese, German, to a lesser extent French. Korean was simply shelved. I did get through lesson 9 after my last post above, then around mid April put my Korean project on hold, not consciously, just my other language tasks absorbed my time. I play the tortoise with Korean, steady (with the exception of this break, I had studied Korean since October last year steadily), but indefatigably towards the goal of B1 and longer term B2.

So now that we are in mid year, I am going to slowly get back into things here. For the next month or so I will just take an hour a day to review old material. Only an hour a day allowed. I want to ease myself into it so that I don't feel my other languages are being attritioned in time usage. Then around August I will cut my Chinese a little (since I will keep studying Chinese until November when I will focus heavily in this language before the HSK 6 exam), and ramp up Korean, German will stay as is.

The complication comes in September when I start full time work... Then my German will have to be cut back significantly, so I will do my best in the next 70 days or so to push my level as high as possible, and work on test prep for the DAF C1. At the point I start full time work, I will cut Chinese a bit too, but will try to increase Korean. My analysis is that after all these months of intense Chinese studies, a quasi-break, or lighter studying around the end of September and October, may be positive for my brainracks. I will only keep reading in Mandarin, since that skill needs to be constantly practiced, and some listening, with occasional writing. Then in November, as said above, I come back hard with Chinese and hopefully get a Wave Effect out of the whole thing.

In the time I work full time, I want to get my Korean prepared for next year when I will have a window to use it on a daily basis and get practice and help from natives. I want to have at least a high A1 low A2 level when arriving there. I think this is a scaled back goal from high A2-B1 I had planned but no matter. I do want the language fresh and evolving in my mind when I get the chance to use it and improve it. I CAN study AT WORK, and have done something like this in the past with other languages, and have progressed even if I have heavy work days because my job does not involve exclusive focus on a task, and this job I am very good at and can do in my sleep anyways! That is why I have some confidence that I can pull this off, even though I have read so many logs here about work and study just getting in the way of plans.

After my Chinese exam, I am mulling a Korean-only intensive study period, between mid-December and the time I fly of to China (initially Taiwan), in late January. About 6 weeks where I would try to "bennylewis" Korean. I am not saying I will use his method of output-oriented language learning, but rather his approach to go insane for 3 months on one language in terms of study and concentration. I am hoping that if I really do something like a 6 week, 12 hour a day study of Korean, that would equal around 500 hours of Korean. Given I have Mandarin Chinese under my belt (not mastery, but in study of the language core), and that I have already a base in Korean (6 months of study starting in July of last year), that would give me a discount of maybe 1000 hours (500 for the Chinese discount, and 500 for the 1 hour a day study for 6 months). It is said you need 2500 hours for Korean, a Category 5 language (not including self-study!). So if I have 1000 hours now, 500 hours would leave me at 1500. I would need 1000 more hours which I would get in China and hopefully Korea. At that point I would hope I am at a solid B1. Of course many people know the hours suggested don't count self study, so I would still need maybe another 1000 hours or more to really get to a good B2 level, my ultimate goal.

But now I am Wanderlusting not in languages, but in plans... Let's first get a routine going here in July of Korean study. I will start next Monday.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:45 am

This first week I reviewed Korean the about four of the seven days. Mainly pronunciation and also doing some reading practice to get back the groove or reading Hangul. I feel good now so I am now reviewing the grammar and doing vocabulary practice. I have been looking around for a tutor, more or less, nothing very intensive in the search, but probing around. I am also seeing about getting my Korean friends to tutor me or finding someone that would like to tutor me. In exchange I offer English or Spanish help of course.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:36 pm

I've been pretty quiet last 10 days from the forum. I have had busy work days (which I had been planning and counting on for months now in my plans for this year, as the year draws to a close I need to work full and overtime to get enough funds for next year's projects overseas), but I also started a workout routine. This did disrupt my studies for a few days as I planned the best exercise routine and did some reading on the latest training and nutrition trends (been years since I have delved in the subject). So last few I did relatively little language wise. As I fit my workout routine in my new schedule and this becomes less disruptive, my language studies are slowly ramping up again.

But I have had this intense desire to do some longer and intense Korean sessions, so I have given in to this and focused on Korean last few days. And why not, if you have the energy for one particular task at a particular time, you go for it. My desire to keep chipping at the Great C1 wall in Chinese, and C1 German wall has now returned, so I am returning to studies there too. But at this stage I think I will focus much more on Korean than before, two to three hours a day, and cut a bit on German. I'm ok with this since I know I will use Korean and Chinese in a few months, so I have more motivation to get these two as good as possible. And my German really did get better in the April-May-June-early July period, I have given it a big push. I will continue, but not with all day sessions as before, I will split with Korean most of those now.

I have admitted to myself that I never learn a new language in one big push: This happened with German, French, and Chinese too. I started strong, then stopped for a few months, then resumed /re-started. The second time around things are much easier of course, which gives me momentum. It's almost as if the first time around I am softening the wall, and the second / third time I finally punch the hole through it.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:25 pm

Let's cut to the chase! I stopped posting last three months because I suffered a massive crisis of confidence not just in language but across the board. I never in my life felt or experienced anything like that. I could not articulate English sentences at its worst moments, my speaking skills collapsed in all other languages. I have no explanations but some hypotheses. I guess I have "recovered" by now... Well this was really a late summer situation.

Then September as is traditional in my life was a shitty month. It never fails to deliver BS and this year it included losing my two computers in a matter of two weeks. The only silver lining is that it is a hardware issue and my data is fine. But I have not been able to buy a new unit as all my funds are going to finance next year's China and South Korea stints as well as India in part after that. It is very annoying for someone with long fingers to type on these little phones so even though I wanted to I just lazy out, just typing this takes me 20 minutes instead of 7 or
8. Finally I work 55 hours a week, Ivknow some people work much more but for me is a lot and still make time to study language on top of that.

Good news is I have been all out on Korean now for last two months and my skills are rising fast. I am focusing on listening now because I had completely neglected it. I watch a drama with simple language and just listen and listen. I took Pimsleur Korean and I am now at the intermediate A CDs. I text in Korean more and more with Korean friends and i am up to 50% Korean on my messaging, with the other 50% being split between Chinese or English when I can't say it in Korean, depending on the friend. But i am making the effort to cut non-Korean use constantly now. I exchange with Korean friend Korean and English about two to three hours per week. I am heavily reviewing grammar from How to Study Korean website and will soon start shadowing dialogues from my textbooks. All of these activities are obviously making a difference now.

Until I have a new latpop I can't say I will post much new. It is just too annoying to use this stupid "smart" phone that corrects my good words and neglects my mistakes.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby Jiwon » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:48 pm

Good to see you again. I have also returned to the forum after a horrible semester of law school drop out. I hope things are working out for you, and would like to stay in touch with your Korean journey.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby outcast » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:06 am

Jiwon wrote:Good to see you again. I have also returned to the forum after a horrible semester of law school drop out. I hope things are working out for you, and would like to stay in touch with your Korean journey.



Thanks. Yeah, Law, you really have to love it (like language learning really)

Actually I have a question. Its probably staring in my face but i can't understand it. This sentence:

제 행동은 실수 것을 깨달았어요.

I have been trying to figure out the role of 인 here. Is it the same role as in the following sentence?

그 남자는 불법인 일을 하고 있어요.

I understand that in this second sentence, you need 인 to connect the two nouns. But in the first sentence isn't 실수 already a noun? Why is it that "mistake" needs to be joined with 것 by using 인 ? Why can't 실수 directly act as the object of the verb "to realize / acknowlege something".

Confused. haha
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby Evita » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:05 am

outcast wrote:Actually I have a question. Its probably staring in my face but i can't understand it. This sentence:

제 행동은 실수 것을 깨달았어요.

I have been trying to figure out the role of 인 here.

In Korean, sentences like "I know that someone did something or something is something" are expressed using '것'. For example:

오늘 만나는 거 알아요? - Do you know that we are meeting today?

The verb '깨닫다 (to realize)' is used in the same way. In my example sentence, the second verb is 만나다, and in your sentence it is 실수이다. In your second sentence, it is 불법이다.
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Re: The Great Korean Spiral Arm: A Hitchhiker's Excursion

Postby qeadz » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:11 am

outcast wrote:제 행동은 실수 것을 깨달았어요.

I have been trying to figure out the role of 인 here. Is it the same role as in the following sentence?


I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've gone horribly wrong here, but I think Evita's answer is not directly what you were asking (although I think it does answer the question).

Maybe building up to the sentence in question is easier than breaking it down...

제 행동은 실수 + 이다.
My action is a mistake (for a literal translation). Note that the sentence needs the verb 이다 or else it makes no sense. It would just be "my action mistake" without a verb!

저는 (some noun) + 깨달았어요.
I realized (something in noun form).

Substitute the first sentence into the "some noun" in the second using the 'ㄴ 것' grammatical structure to do it. At the same time dropping 저는 from the second sentence as it can be inferred and the final result is:

제 행동은 실수 것을 깨달았어요.
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