There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

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MamaPata
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:21 pm

StringerBell wrote:Have you ever read Sombre Sentier by Dominique Manotti? It's a French novel, but I recently bought it translated into Italian. It sounds promising (a crime thriller about the seedy underworld of 1980s Paris), but since I haven't started it yet, I was wondering if you'd already read it so that you could tell me it's terrible. :D


I have had a spate of terrible things, but missed that one so you may be safe!
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 pm

I have been reading a bit on my LWT and decided to have a look at my statistics. My French is now certified at C1, my Russian is probably around B2ish and my Spanish is very mixed. There is a huge difference in how easy it is for me to read in each language, with French a ridiculous amount easier. And yet, the percentage of words I know is essentially the same for all of them - around 87/88%. There is a big difference in the amount I've read for each of them (Russian - 33,000 words, French - 10,000, Spanish 8,000). But it still feels odd that they're the same, when the experience is so different.
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:22 pm

Life has been full of non-language related things, and that is unlikely to change. Like many people, I still cling to a deeply misguided belief that if I just try hard enough, I will be able to do all of the things, maintain all the various areas of my life without having to drop anything, make no mistakes, and follow all my interests all the way. This is clearly nonsense, but as someone who operates on extreme levels of guilt, it's taking me a while to accept. And working on it and building different areas of my life does mean that languages lose out.

I am also trying to accept that I am simply not going to make as much progress with French/Russian as I would like to. I am never going to feel totally comfortable with my level; I am always going to feel like an imposter. Maybe that's okay.
I'm not going to give them up - in fact I am working out how to give them more dedicated time. But probably less time. Maybe that's okay too.

I don't have any overarching conclusions or plans yet. I'm just. pondering.

--------

Where am I with languages then?

French

Not a huge amount to report. I read Loubna Méliane's 'Vivre Libre', which I picked up in a charity shop in London. I'd assumed it was fiction, but it's actually her biography - how she came to be an activist and to work with SOS Racisme. I found it interesting and it's very readable - it's just under 200 pages, so nice if you're in a bit of a rut as I was. I then binge-read Circe by Madeline Miller - in English, but I think it got me back into wanting to read fiction. So while that means my TL reading is going to take a hit while I get back to the English books I own, I think it also means I am more ready and keen to read some of the French fiction I have lined up.

I started watching the documentary Women of War, which I hadn't realised was French. I also listened to quite a few French podcasts on lunchtime walks during work.

Russian

I have done a bit of Russian reading/writing/translating for work. It is very hard for me because I know there's so so many mistakes. The stuff I translate into Russian gets proofread, which is always a grim experience. The documents come back with basically half the text rewritten. (Although on a couple of occasions, stuff I'd included that had been written by native speakers was also corrected, which made me feel better). It's a good way of teaching me to get over mistakes! One or two interactions were exacerbated because Russian wasn't either of our first languages, which meant that sometimes I found their Russian strange and I thought they hadn't understood me. In general though, I am very grateful for the experiecne - I know that I will only get less terrible if I keep at it and my manager is fine for me to do that, so I'm in a pretty fantastic position. Other than that, not much Russian content to report. A few podcasts, but I still find it much harder to concentrate on them than I do French.

Spanish

Coming to about the halfway point of the Lingoda challenge. I had hoped that my Spanish would have recovered a lot more by now, but that was probably a bit naive. That said, I do like Lingoda. The fact that I have to fit it in means that I make it my priority, whereas with Italki I wait to see if I am going to meet with friends, etc, and then it never gets booked. After the challenge, you get put onto a reduced rate version of their subscription unless you opt out and I think I might not opt out, which I hadn't expected. It isn't for everyone, but I like the structure, I find lessons much more helpful than self study. It's obviously a financial commitment, so I won't be able to do it forever. But I think the potential benefits of that commitment make it pretty worthwhile for now, while I have reduced costs. I am hoping to make Spanish a part of my academic and work careers, so it is a useful investment for the time being.

I haven't really watched much. I started the next book in the Prince of Mist series, using LWT. I also read the first chapter of El lapiz del carpintero, but that seems a bit beyond my level still - I need romance/crime/YA trash still. So I've got a more trashy novel from the library and we'll go from there.
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MamaPata
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:19 pm

My spate of disappointing reads/watches has been temporarily abated. I went to see family in Scotland recently so I had over 8 hours on the train, which meant I clocked up a few things for the SC. I’m seeing other family this weekend, but much closer so not sure how much I’ll tick off. And I have a few English language films I’ve been meaning to watch for ages and as I’m in more of a film mood at the moment, that may take preference.

French

Starting with one I wasn’t convinced by, I read ‘Amours’ on the train. It’s a love story (shockingly) set in the early twentieth century. If anyone’s read The Crimson Petal and the White, it reminded me a bit of that (which I was also underwhelmed by). But if you liked that, you might like this. It is much much shorter though- only 200 pages. It’s a very easy read, it just didn’t particularly grip me. If anyone else has read it, I’d be intrigued to know your thoughts.

Then much more fun: films!

I watched Bienvenue à Marly-Gomont and Fille du Patron on the train (both available on UK Netflix).

Bienvenue à Marly-Gomont is my sort of film. Essentially the premise is that a doctor from the Democratic Republic of Congo moves to work in a small village in France in the 70s. It’s very similar to the Indian Doctor, which I really enjoyed. But I found this particularly fun to watch, I’d 100% recommend it. It’s actually based on the rapper Kamini’s father’s life. Kamini became famous after he released a rap about Marly-Gomont, which is very funny. I’m on the bus now, but I’ll try and share it later.

Fille du Patron I wasn’t sure I’d like but Netflix kept suggesting it. They weren’t wrong, I quite liked it. It’s a love story, but it’s not too romantic and it’s not sappy at all. It’s also about work and industry and rugby, which is fun. Again, it’s my sort of film. It’s a bit like something like Full Monty but not a comedy. I liked the cinematography, it’s got some great shots.

In terms of difficulty, I didn’t really have any problems. That said, I kept a list of words I didn’t know (some I recognise, but couldn’t define, and some I understood in context but couldn’t use, quite a few I just didn’t know). For BaMG, I didn’t know 57 and for FdP, I didn’t know 33. (There is a lot less talking in FdP). They’re both about an hour and a half so that’s a new word every minute or so. I’ve got my C1 qualification, it just proves how much there is left to learn.

Spanish

I read the book Mujeres que compran flores. I have a few Spanish books but they’re a bit beyond me, so I’m just trying to find romance books or crap crime novels at the library. Unfortunately the librarians seem to have better taste. This was fine, nothing really to report. It’s a sort of self-help fiction story. I am just finding reading in Spanish hard. I lack so much vocabulary and I can really understand why people around B1 give up on reading, thinking they should wait until they’re better. I know if I just push through, it gets easier as you get further into the book. And then the next book is easier. But at the moment, it feels 50:50 as to whether I am actually learning or making progress.

Onto the next crap novel I guess. I think I really need a few translations from English or YA novels but there aren’t any in the library. And weirdly, while most charity shops (if they have foreign language books) have some in French, it’s really hard to find Spanish. If there are any, they are always really serious. There are many Spanish speakers in the UK, why are there so few books?! I can’t afford to pay full price at this level!

I watched the film A pesar de todo, also on Netflix. Crap Spanish comedy, reasonably enjoyable, though predictable. There are some things in it I felt could be a bit problematic, but it has Amelia from Gran Hotel as a very cute lesbian. I’m a sucker for an attractive cast. It’s definitely switch off your brain watching though.

I also watched Dos Cocinas, which is a short 30min documentary/advert for a female chef who started with a restaurant in Mexico and then opened one in the US. I didn’t bother counting it for the SC though because it’s about 50:50 English:Spanish. But a fun, short watch.

I then went back to Chicas de Cable. I’ve watched maybe three episodes and I liked it every time, but never got stuck into it. Feel like I have overcome that, so hoping to keep going with it now!

Russian

I recently rewatched Legenda no 17, which I’ve talked about here before. I’ve got a few other films I want to watch, but I don’t really have much I can download so that limits when I can watch Russian stuff. I also started reading Svetlana Alekseivich’s Zinky Boys, but I’m only a couple of pages in.

Mostly though, Russian is very left out which is a bit ridiculous given that it’s important for work and academia for me. I’ll probably talk about this in more detail another time.

But yeah, I’d get much more done with languages if I could go away every weekend!
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MamaPata
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:34 pm

Better late than never:



I tried to translate this for some friends, which was an experience!
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby StringerBell » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 pm

MamaPata wrote:I am just finding reading in Spanish hard. I lack so much vocabulary and I can really understand why people around B1 give up on reading, thinking they should wait until they’re better. I know if I just push through, it gets easier as you get further into the book. And then the next book is easier. But at the moment, it feels 50:50 as to whether I am actually learning or making progress.

Onto the next crap novel I guess.


I'm struggling with reading in Italian - my strongest language. It's so weird how comfortably I can watch Italian TV but then once I switch to reading books it's a different story. I know that it means I probably just need to do it a lot more, but it's still at the annoying avoid-it-if-I-can stage and I don't enjoy it at all. I'm also reading a lot of crap because it's easier to understand, so that probably doesn't help. I'm inspired by the progress you've made with French, and even though it feels like I'm not making progress, I'm going to try to keep it up with the hope that it will start getting easier for me like it did for you...hopefully! Interestingly, I scored 80% correct when I took a sample C1 reading exam in Italian, so reading novels in a target language even with a C1 level is no easy thing.

Do you ever reread books or listen to audiobook versions after you've read them?
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MamaPata
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:16 pm

StringerBell wrote:
MamaPata wrote:I am just finding reading in Spanish hard. I lack so much vocabulary and I can really understand why people around B1 give up on reading, thinking they should wait until they’re better. I know if I just push through, it gets easier as you get further into the book. And then the next book is easier. But at the moment, it feels 50:50 as to whether I am actually learning or making progress.

Onto the next crap novel I guess.


I'm struggling with reading in Italian - my strongest language. It's so weird how comfortably I can watch Italian TV but then once I switch to reading books it's a different story. I know that it means I probably just need to do it a lot more, but it's still at the annoying avoid-it-if-I-can stage and I don't enjoy it at all. I'm also reading a lot of crap because it's easier to understand, so that probably doesn't help. I'm inspired by the progress you've made with French, and even though it feels like I'm not making progress, I'm going to try to keep it up with the hope that it will start getting easier for me like it did for you...hopefully! Interestingly, I scored 80% correct when I took a sample C1 reading exam in Italian, so reading novels in a target language even with a C1 level is no easy thing.

Do you ever reread books or listen to audiobook versions after you've read them?


It's a miserable process, so much harder than watching stuff despite them both being fun things to do in general! I have come such a long way with French. There's still so many words I don't know, but I can read. That's really interesting about your Italian and the exam. Keep plugging at it!

I don't really like audiobooks, I find it really hard to concentrate on them. It's been a huge step for me to listen to podcasts and I still have to do very small doses, in specific conditions. I might reread a book for pleasure, a while later, but not really for language learning and I don't do anything different. So the answer to both questions is probably no!
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MamaPata
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:53 pm

Today I was doing a class on direct object and indirect object pronouns in Spanish and I'm left with a question. I understand the basic rules and when each is used, but there was an example that has thrown me, so if anyone can explain it I would be very grateful!

We were doing an exercise in which you replace the pronouns with the me/te/etc... Which is all fine. But then we had the sentence:
Ustedes beben la limonada.
Which as I understand, ought to be 'La beben'. But the teacher said it should be 'se la beben'. Why? It's not an indirect object pronoun, it's not a reflexive verb. I don't really understand.
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby mvillalba » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:37 am

MamaPata wrote:Today I was doing a class on direct object and indirect object pronouns in Spanish and I'm left with a question. I understand the basic rules and when each is used, but there was an example that has thrown me, so if anyone can explain it I would be very grateful!

We were doing an exercise in which you replace the pronouns with the me/te/etc... Which is all fine. But then we had the sentence:
Ustedes beben la limonada.
Which as I understand, ought to be 'La beben'. But the teacher said it should be 'se la beben'. Why? It's not an indirect object pronoun, it's not a reflexive verb. I don't really understand.

As a native, which naturally renders me incapable of answering "why?", "se la beben" sounds better. But "la beben" doesn't necessarily sound wrong. It's just hard to say with such a stilted example without context. Didn't your teacher give you an explanation?
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MamaPata
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Re: There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

Postby MamaPata » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:00 pm

mvillalba wrote:
MamaPata wrote:Today I was doing a class on direct object and indirect object pronouns in Spanish and I'm left with a question. I understand the basic rules and when each is used, but there was an example that has thrown me, so if anyone can explain it I would be very grateful!

We were doing an exercise in which you replace the pronouns with the me/te/etc... Which is all fine. But then we had the sentence:
Ustedes beben la limonada.
Which as I understand, ought to be 'La beben'. But the teacher said it should be 'se la beben'. Why? It's not an indirect object pronoun, it's not a reflexive verb. I don't really understand.

As a native, which naturally renders me incapable of answering "why?", "se la beben" sounds better. But "la beben" doesn't necessarily sound wrong. It's just hard to say with such a stilted example without context. Didn't your teacher give you an explanation?


Not really, no. He said it's a common thing, but that leaves me unsure why it happens or when I wouldn't use it.
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