There are worse things I could do... (FR, RU, ES)

[brilliantyears]

My dissertation is in!

Congrats!! I remember the feeling of disorientation after finishing good luck.

[MamaPata]

I finished my horrific Russian exam! Everything is going to get less miserable now (for which everyone interacting with me lately is stupidly grateful). It wasn't fantastic, but I knew it would be pretty terrible. Interestingly, talking to a few people afterwards, I think that acceptance actually really helped me. Several students were really disappointed with it and found it really hard, whereas it was about what I expected.

I've been thinking a lot recently (even more than normal!) about intermediate plateaus. As you may have noticed from the rather enthusiastic complaining, I am getting very stuck with Russian. (And, not currently because I've put it aside, but I was also seeing the same sort of thing for French).

It's not that I'm not seeing progress, because I really am with both languages. However, I think that as you get further into a language, it becomes increasingly difficult. As a small caveat, I absolutely hate the beginner stage of learning languages and really feel that it only becomes worthwhile at about B1. But, at the beginning, you are basically only making progress. You don't know enough to see your mistakes, you are constantly seeing the new things that you're learning. As you get further, you start to know the rules in theory, so you become increasingly aware of your mistakes. And as you understand more, the gap between how you want to sound and how you actually sound is increasingly visible.

As part of that, it takes longer and longer to make small bits of progress. There is a bit of me that does start to wonder whether it's worth continuing to push for C1 and C2. I'm not applying for jobs where languages are particularly useful to me. I don't have a partner who speaks that language. I don't have a particular interest in French or Russian literature. I can communicate, I can watch stuff and read. I could actually get to a conversational language in another language in the time that it would take me to push myself up another level in French and Russian... I will keep pushing for it I think, but it is sometimes hard to make it a priority.

I am a massive fan of the Super Challenge and can visibly see the progress I made as a result of last year's. I really hope to get results this year, and it's a brilliant way to maintain languages that you're not focusing on. I would recommend it to anyone beyond a basic level and I'm so glad I came across it. That said, I am now very aware that there is a huge gap between my passive and active skills. I write horrifically. I am able to communicate, but a lot of the vocabulary I use is very basic and I find myself always using the same sort of constructions. I can make myself understood and have conversations about a really wide range of things, but it's not always pretty.

This is not a lack of practice or an unwillingness to talk: I have a big mouth. But I definitely need to approach things differently. I really need to be taking on the feedback that I'm getting and I need to be pushing myself to use different vocabulary and to expand my speech. I am learning all of this brilliant stuff from reading and watching, I now need to activate it. I also need to do the stuff that I avoid: writing and grammar. As I've said above, languages don't really have a practical application for me right now. Okay, there is that small question of my degree being a Russian degree. But other than that. They are a hobby and so a) I fit them in where I can, b) I don't want to do things I don't enjoy - if I don't enjoy it, I won't do it - and c) the times I have are generally times I am trying to relax. These are all very valid things and part of why I have been prioritising passive skills. But I do also know that if I want to be making progress, which will make the whole process more pleasureable, I need to go back to grammar exercises and I need to be writing regularly. I don't really have a plan for that or a way to manage it. It's not something that I'm going to be emphasising just yet - I need to survive my exams and then I need to apply for jobs and have some fun - but it is something I know I have to work on.

These are obviously not the issues that everyone faces, nor are they the reason that many people have a plateau in the B levels. I do much less grammar than most people on this forum (in my defence, I have done a lot of grammar - I haven't ignored it completely, just recently!) and I write a lot less, so obviously these are my problems. Other people hate talking and so that's a bigger problem. Or don't like politics so can't talk about that, whereas it's basically my life's blood. I can talk about politics in French much more easily than I can about most topics! We're all different, we all have different problems. But I suspect there are quite a few people in the same boat as me, so feel less alone!

I don't really have a concluding point here, I think I just needed to assess where I am and work out where I will need to find a plan in the future.

[neofight78]

Thanks for the advice! I have Russian exams until the end of the month, so I'm not really taking a break (for more than a few hours) until then, but I do plan to completely leave Russian for a few weeks in June. Until then, like you say, balance and mixing things up. How's your Russian study going?

Lol, I'm obviously not paying attention! If you are prepping for an exam, I still think you need to be mindful of not burning out and also one has to be realistic about what you can do in the time available. So relax, your level is where it is, work on your weak points and try to keep everything fresh, but don't bust a gut. Hmm... I'm sure all my advice must be rather obvious! In short prepare, but don't run yourself into the ground trying to get a big improvement at this late stage. Anyhow, I wish you well!

Regarding my study, well, it's not without reason I've been quiet on my log. I shall post an update at some point, but the short answer is that I've been working on my professional skills as they had been neglected for a long time in favour of Russian. So a big break for me. I would like to return to my Russian studies at some point, but perhaps at a more relaxed pace. Of course, I'm living in Russia so it's not like I'm starved of the language. Anyhow, we'll see....

[MamaPata]

Just two exams left! I am exhausted, but everything is ticking along. I'm ready to be done, but also a little nervous about what comes next. Such is life!

(Obvious disclaimer: countries aren't monoliths, not everyone will have this experience, this is all personal and subjective, etc, etc).

I have been thinking a lot about language-adjacent skills. I guess cultural skills? One of the things that I think is really tiring me out at the moment is some of that, I think. I've been doing as many skype lessons and exchanges as I can a) afford to and b) have time to, and it does take a toll. I am expected to talk about quite controversial topics in my exams (and would in life generally) but that can be quite difficult when dealing with partners and teachers. I love talking about politics, it's my bread and butter. I am actually better at talking about politics in French than I am at most topics, simply because that's where most of my conversations with people slid off to. Everything is political! I also spend a pretty huge percentage of my life talking about identity, sexuality, sex, gender, etc etc. This does not always work fantastically well.

I think there is a lot of important skill here in terms of managing cultural sensitivities, acknowledging difference and I value that to an extremely high level. I am very grateful for this forum and the ban on politics despite my love of politics, because it allows us to unite here and to support each other despite our differences. There are many people here who I wouldn't cope with in "real life" and many who would find me tiresome and uncomfortable to be around. But we can step past that and we gain so much from that. Similarly, there are things I accept from Russians that I wouldn't accept from people in London, because I value the connection and because I recognise that the experiences are different. However, I don't think that always has to the case and sometimes I really struggle with the responses I can get from Russians (and I am sure many struggle with my take on things). This is not just a Russian thing - I actually had far greater problems coping with the difference between British/London cultural rules and Dutch cultural rules. This is not a complaint, but I think it's an area of language learning that you don't always expect, that we don't always talk about and that can be far more tiring and challenging than some other things.

There is also a big sense of responsibility to and demand from people that can get very tiring (particularly when, as has happened several times these last few weeks, they fail to turn up or contact you but still expect you to respond immediately). I am very clear with everyone that I can't do exchanges regularly and it can get a bit tiring that people simply ignore this. I have a massive list of language exchange pet peeves, but we'll leave that for another time.

I am not actually complaining here - I love my skype teachers, I have some brilliant exchanges, I love meeting new people, learning about different cultures and challenging myself. I think these are vital experiences to have. But I think I just wanted to air some of the things that can be overlooked when we talk about languages.

[zjones]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about cultural skills. I've long wondered about how cultural differences affect language-learning and communication. I do know that have a lot more patience for the different ideologies of my French exchange partners than I do for Americans, but I wonder how long my patience will last when I get into the B levels. I'm fairly opinionated and skeptical with a penchant to play devil's advocate in philosophical/political conversations. I've always thought that I was more suited French political system than the American one, but now I wonder how true that really is. Culture run deep and we don't always notice how they have shaped our identity.

I'm surprised about the cultural differences between London and The Netherlands... I guess I had always considered them to be fairly similar.

[MamaPata]

In terms of a more general Russian update, I am still Russianing.

Amusingly, in what is a totally new experience, I am actually ahead with the reading section of the Super Challenge and behind with the watching. I think this is partly about a bit of a burnout, but it's mostly that I've been reading some real low-brow nonsense in Russian.

In my defence though, I have also read another 10% of У войны не женское лицо. It is brilliant, I recommend it to everyone, it's such an important historical and cultural artefact, it's really useful for language learners because it's actual speech.... I am also incapable of reading more than a few pages at a time because it's just so real and painful.

Two of my Russian "films" are interviews from вДудь's channel, which one of my teachers recommended to me and I am really fascinated by. They tend to be about an hour long which is a bit longer than I like (I mostly watch 5 minute videos on youtube) but it's shorter than a film. They also talk about a real range of stuff and because it's two people, it's a bit more difficult than vlogs or youtube videos where someone just talks at camera. I watched an interview with Pozner, which was really interesting but I struggled with at times because I just lacked the cultural knowledge. (I had never heard of him or seen his show, I didn't know of the journalists they discuss, etc).

I loved this interview with Aleksei Serebriakov. . In some ways, it's not fantasic interviewing on either of their parts, they come across as quite irritated by the other. But they talk about a real range of things: films, Russia, families, adoption, which was all fascinating. I've seen him in at least two films - Груз-200 and Левиафан - both of which they talk about so that was also very interesting.

[MamaPata]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about cultural skills. I've long wondered about how cultural differences affect language-learning and communication. I do know that have a lot more patience for the different ideologies of my French exchange partners than I do for Americans, but I wonder how long my patience will last when I get into the B levels. I'm fairly opinionated and skeptical with a penchant to play devil's advocate in philosophical/political conversations. I've always thought that I was more suited French political system than the American one, but now I wonder how true that really is. Culture run deep and we don't always notice how they have shaped our identity.

I'm surprised about the cultural differences between London and The Netherlands... I guess I had always considered them to be fairly similar.

It's a weird one! I think you may be right in what you currently think, it's always hard to tell. In many ways, I haven't really struggled with Russian culture, it's only been quite recently (and let's face it, there's other stuff going on). You may be very well suited to the French political system, but there may be cultural differences in other areas that get you! It's all a fascinating area really.

Ahh... again, going back to my disclaimer... I only lived in Den Haag - my impression is that Amsterdam is very different. I know tons of Londoners and Brits who love the Netherlands and for whom there isn't much of a gap. But personally, yeah, it felt huge.

[MamaPata]

MY EXAMS ARE DONE! MY EXAMS ARE DONE! MY EXAMS ARE DONE!

NO MORE RUSSIAN! NO MORE RUSSIAN! (For a few weeks...)

[Ani]

Congratulations!!! Yippee!!! Are you now free for the summer? I loved that feeling.

[MamaPata]

Congratulations!!! Yippee!!! Are you now free for the summer? I loved that feeling.

Yep! Fun and job hunting are my only plans! (I had already started job hunting so that doesn't completely count).