So many languages, so little time. A language log (RU, EO, maybe some others)

[Ani]

Hey there! Popping in to say hi and subscribe. I also have 4 kids and homeschool so I hope you write some about their experiences with language and your experiences teaching. I love homeschool but I am ready outsource the language lessons and any discussion would be real encouragement

What is a Lingua franca group? Sounds very interesting.

Russian is going to be my next language once I can get my hands on Russe sans prime. I hope to be able to enjoy the discussion of Russian words. (Right now the cyrillic looks a bit like spiderweb attached to the screen )

[IronMike]

I've often heard it. I've also heard "idiot", "crétin" or even "imbécile" (pretty rare, this one). Russians like to pump up in their old french reservoir.

Arnaud, I love to give Russian speakers hell when I hear them say words like those, or like коттедж or таунхаус. I'll then ask them, "Старое русское слово, да?" which makes them laugh.

[IronMike]

Hey there! Popping in to say hi and subscribe. I also have 4 kids and homeschool so I hope you write some about their experiences with language and your experiences teaching. I love homeschool but I am ready outsource the language lessons and any discussion would be real encouragement

What is a Lingua franca group? Sounds very interesting.

Russian is going to be my next language once I can get my hands on Russe sans prime. I hope to be able to enjoy the discussion of Russian words. (Right now the cyrillic looks a bit like spiderweb attached to the screen )

Hey Ani! Sorry, somehow I missed your post.

I see you found the homeschool thread. I like the idea of a homeschool(er) team!

Since the wife has been the primary teacher for our kids, I'll tell you about what she/we did language-wise. Back around 2005-ish, we got German Rosetta Stone and the kids and mom went through that. Like, through all of it, to include the writing part. My wife has had experience with German before so it was quick and easy for her, and the kids took to it pretty easily. What really pushed them beyond RS was when we found out that their favorite online game (at the time), Runescape, had a "German" world, where everything in it was in German. My wife let the kids play Runescape for one hour per school day as long as they were in the German world.

This worked well as she and the kids ended up going to Germany and Switzerland to visit relatives about 12 months later (while I got to "enjoy" Iraq). The kids used their German there and got exposed to the language, which was great as they were 11, 10, 7 and 3 at the time. When I got back from Iraq, they had been back from Europe for a couple of months. I was enjoying some time off at home, relaxing on the couch, overhearing a conversation btwn my boys (the 11- and 10-yr olds) on the difference between axe and hatchet auf Deutsch! I was floored.

Fast forward to 2009-ish and we are on our way to Russia. Again Russian Rosetta Stone, but also Pimsleur, which mom and the kids preferred. Did a few months of that prior to arriving in Moscow, which helped the kids out a bit. We decided to not homeschool them there, instead enrolling them in the international school. Not enough Russian instruction for my taste (2-3 times per week, that is it). Our youngest at the time (6 to 9-yrs old) soaked up the most, to the point she could watch Russian cartoons and understand them. Our second oldest wasn't too bad at it when he'd go out with his friends to coffee shops. Our oldest did Spanish his last year, which ended up being the right move.

When we moved back to the states in 2012, homeschooling started up again. Oldest continue Spanish on his own and got a job at a local MacDonalds where all of the employees (except him) and most of the customers were L1 Spanish speakers. He'd speak Spanish daily for more than half of his work day. He continued working there the year after high school before we moved again, this time to Kyrgyzstan.

Kids entered private international school (again) here in Bishkek. More Russian, 5x per week, which was nice. Plus the kids are picking up some Kyrgyz words from their Kyrgyz friends. The girls' (the 2 youngest) Russian is getting better (probably A2+). The second oldest graduated here and did well in Russian and now has complete conversations with his Kyrgyz and Russian-speaking friends entirely in Russian. Granted, not advanced topics, but topics you'd imagine a bunch of 17-19-year old boys would have.

So, that is our experience with homeschooling/schooling and languages. The Esperanto teaching will begin when we arrive our next assignment, which is Moscow again. My now 16-year old daughter wants to learn it and Mom said that'll be my job.

(I'll cross-post all this in the homeschool thread, too.)

OH! A lingua franca group? Well on FB there are a bunch of them. Basically, every six months the group votes on a language to learn together, then we as a group learn/study that language and after 3 months (generally) we switch to only using the language in posts to the group. It's fun. I'm studying Mari (a Finno-Ugric language of Russia) and Choctaw (the SE US native language) as part of two of the groups. Some of the languages being studied by other groups includes Greek, Romanian, Catalan, German and Farsi.

[IronMike]

So, spent some time reading articles today in Russian on a dialect I had heard about years ago: Ninilchik Russian (NR).

NR is a dialect of Russian found on the Kenai peninsula of Alaska in the village of Ninilchik. It's very interesting, both its history and structure. There aren't many speakers left, and they're all old, so the language is on its death bed unfortunately.

The language has in most instances lost gender markers, esp. for adjectives for feminine nouns. Lots of English loan words, and some old forms, for instance егонай for his in place of его.

I love reading linguistics in Russian. I'd set my proficiency in reading "linguistics-Russian" at a high C1 approaching C2!

И мое изучение марийского языка продолжает. Я написал 3 упражнения из моего учебника вчера и двa родных говорителя марийского исправили мои ошибки. Только одна! Первый урок даст граматику местного падежа, уже! Я еще не умею сказать "Меня зовут Майк" но я могу "Я живу в Бишкеке" (Мый Бишкекыште илем).

[IronMike]

So, been studying Mari through the medium of Russian. For the purposes of having this in one spot, here's the accusative, genitive and inessive for Mari:

Accusative
-м, -ым:

If the noun ends in an accented vowel, the ending is -м
паша: пашам work
йоча: йочам child
If the word final vowel is unaccented, it is dropped and -ым is added
вате: ватым wife
тудо: тудым he/she/it
If the word ends in a consonant, the ending is -ым
урем: уремым street, road
мут: мутым word

Genitive
-н, -ын

If the noun ends in an accented vowel, the ending is -н
паша: пашан
йоча: йочан
If the word final vowel is unaccented, it is dropped and -ын is added
вате: ватын
тудо: тудын
If the word ends in a consonant, the ending is -ын
урем: уремын
мут: мутын

Inessive (answers the question "Where?")
-ште/-што/-штӧ
-ыште/-ышто/-ыштӧ

After a stressed vowel, -ште/-што/-штӧ
ола: олаште city
пасу: пасушто field
After a consonant, -ыште/-ышто/-ыштӧ
сад: садыште garden
мут: мутышто
After unstressed vowel, drop it and add -ыште/-ышто/-ыштӧ
кече: кечыште day, sun
тумо: тумышто oak

[Ani]

OH! A lingua franca group? Well on FB there are a bunch of them. Basically, every six months the group votes on a language to learn together, then we as a group learn/study that language and after 3 months (generally) we switch to only using the language in posts to the group. It's fun. I'm studying Mari (a Finno-Ugric language of Russia) and Choctaw (the SE US native language) as part of two of the groups. Some of the languages being studied by other groups includes Greek, Romanian, Catalan, German and Farsi.

I'll reply to the homeschooling part in the other thread. So incredibly cool But the Lingua Franca groups -- well that is very cool too. Something I might look forward to at another phase in my journey.

So, spent some time reading articles today in Russian on a dialect I had heard about years ago: Ninilchik Russian (NR).

NR is a dialect of Russian found on the Kenai peninsula of Alaska in the village of Ninilchik. It's very interesting, both its history and structure. There aren't many speakers left, and they're all old, so the language is on its death bed unfortunately.

I googled really quick. I know that church, Holy Transfiguration. I had no idea I had a uniquely Alaska dialect of Russian dying in my back yard How sad. I don't know much about linguistics but I gather from this forum, that once a language is dying to this extent there is no saving it right?

[IronMike]

I googled really quick. I know that church, Holy Transfiguration. I had no idea I had a uniquely Alaska dialect of Russian dying in my back yard How sad. I don't know much about linguistics but I gather from this forum, that once a language is dying to this extent there is no saving it right?

I don't think there is any saving it now, which is sad since it has dropped some of the annoying grammar bits of Russian!

Where in Alaska do you live? Wife and I lived in Anchorage for 4 years; had our first child there. Really miss it, even now, 20 years on. Would go back to Alaska, anywhere in Alaska, if I could find a job there.

[Ani]

I don't think there is any saving it now, which is sad since it has dropped some of the annoying grammar bits of Russian!

Where in Alaska do you live? Wife and I lived in Anchorage for 4 years; had our first child there. Really miss it, even now, 20 years on. Would go back to Alaska, anywhere in Alaska, if I could find a job there.

Chugiak. Since you have lived here I don't have to tell you that it is just one of those places that takes a little bit of your soul and leaves a bit of itself in that place. Now that we are here I don't know that we could bear to leave. Although I have the itch to travel and I'd love to see Siberia and Scandanavia. I do so love the north.
Sorry I don't mean to take over your log with chitter chatter

Maybe we could make a business of saving an obscure dialect? Two birds with one stone

[IronMike]

As it is the second Sunday in my 2 week cycle, Russian specific studying (reading Metro 2033, watching Воронины) now are on pause, and all efforts are on Mari.

Some more Mari grammar:

Possessive for the 3SG is -же/-жо/-жӧ or -ше/-шо/-шӧ

After accented vowels and the voiced consonants, the ending is -же, -жо, or -жӧ
вер: верже
ӱдыр: ӱдыржӧ

Word-final unaccented -е/-о/-ӧ becomes ы before -же, -жо or -жӧ
эрге: эргыже
родо: родыжо

After the consonant -ш, the ending is -ыже/-ыжо/-ыжӧ
лышташ: лышташыже

After the remaining consonants, the ending is -ше/-шо/-шӧ
пӧрт: пӧртшӧ
мут: мутшо

Possessive for the 3PL is шт (-ышт)

After accented vowels the ending is -шт
ола: олашт
ача: ачашт

A word-final unaccented -е/-о/-ӧ becomes -ы then шт is added
эрге: эргышт
йылме: йылмышт

After all consonants the ending is -ышт
вер: верышт
ӱдыр: ӱдырышт

Multiple suffixes can be added, in this order:
possessive + genitive/accusative

эрге: эргыштын his/her son-GEN

Possessive with two words, like the boy's name, will be constructed this way:
first word is possessor, thus takes the genitive suffix, while the second word is possessed thus takes the possessive suffix

Серген ӱдыржӧ Sergey's daughter
нунын йочашт their children

[IronMike]

All the possessive endings in one place (all the ones I've learned so far, that is!):

1SG: -м, -ем, -эм
2SG: -т, -ет, -эт
3SG: -ж(е)/-ж(о)/ж(ӧ) or (-ше/-шо/-шӧ)
3PL: -шт (-ышт)