My journey to Spanish fluency

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westminstress
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Languages: English (N), Spanish (intermediate), French (beginner)
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:02 pm

Wow, I have never heard of Mango Languages before but it looks like a great resource (and actually looks great for my French needs which are pretty much centered around travelling). How does it work through NYPL and are you using it via iphone app? I would love to hear a little more about your experience with this program.
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ASEAN
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby ASEAN » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:06 pm

westminstress wrote:Wow, I have never heard of Mango Languages before but it looks like a great resource (and actually looks great for my French needs which are pretty much centered around travelling). How does it work through NYPL and are you using it via iphone app? I would love to hear a little more about your experience with this program.


I am in Arizona. I thought you were in NYC because that is the location you give. If you are not in NYC, here is the link to see if Mango Languages is offered through your library. You need to have a library card in order to use the program for free.
https://mangolanguages.com/libraries/find-mango/

If you do have a NYC library card, here is the link to get Mango. I only use a computer, but I believe you can get the app from the site. Unfortunately, my library in Arizona stopped carrying Mango Languages so I can't check for you. https://www.nypl.org/collections/articl ... -languages

I used Mango for fun last year to learn a little Brazilian Portuguese in time for the Olympics. It was amazing. I have a good ear for languages but Portuguese is a language that I have never really heard throughout my life. Since I have a low intermediate Spanish background, I was able to acquire a decent Portuguese accent and now if someone happens to make a comment in Portuguese on YouTube I can easily read it about 80% of the time. I think I did about a lesson a day for a total of 20, although they might call a lesson something different like "module" with several lessons in a module

I think Mango is a lot like Pimsleur, but customizeable and takes a lot less time. You can focus on areas that are difficult for you but speed up or even skip areas if don't need the review. The only problem I had with Mango is that you couldn't turn the English off completely. I complained to the company a couple of times so maybe they fixed the issue.
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westminstress
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:54 pm

Hi everyone, hope all is well for you in the world of language learning. I feel like I am on a good roll lately which is a nice change of pace.

With Spanish I've just been continuing my regular activities, all of which I enjoy. Nothing new to report there. I had my second Spanish tutoring session yesterday, and it went very well. There was more conversation last time, and though we were talking grammar points, they were the type of grammar points that always trip me up so they were good to review. (This time we were talking about imperfect vs preterite - something that doesn't usually give me trouble in writing, but it does in speech, causing uncomfortable pauses while I think about which tense to use. This is why I am so glad to have a tutor who can give me the space to just practice speaking and also correct my mistakes.)

With French I am making good progress. I completed the excellent University of Michigan pronunciation/spelling video series. I completed level 17 in Duolingo. Thanks to a great recommendation from Asean, I started the Mango Languages French program and have completed unit 5. Mango Languages is a great complement to Duolingo for a couple of reasons. (1) It is focused on travel/basics and teaches you to say polite things like, hello, how are you, excuse me do you speak english, etc. I'm sure it will get more complicated as we go forward, but since these basic travel essentials seem to be totally lacking in Duolingo, I am glad to practice them. (2) It has a really fantastic feature which allows you to record your own speech and compare it to the recording of the native speaker and do it over and over if you want. Wow! To make this great program even better, it is completely free (if you can access it through your library system, which I did) and you can download the lessons to do later without internet access. Plus there is a hands-free option so it is actually very good for such times as washing the dishes after dinner. Since the Mango Languages is way less glitchy than the free Nemo app I was using before to record and compare my speech, I am going to stop using Nemo.

In terms of my basic strategy, I did the right thing focusing on pronunciation from the start. After a month or so of practice, my mouth can more or less make the correct sounds. And when I compare my voice to the recording, I sound ok. Not perfect, but definitely acceptable, and I think a French person would have no problem understanding me.

I am not doing anything special to learn vocabulary. I figure that words will repeat as I encounter them in different programs, and I will pick them up that way. I don't know enough words to benefit yet from listening to native materials, so I am going to stick to course work for now.
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westminstress
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:32 pm

Hi everyone. Hope all is well for you lately. A few updates for this week.

Spanish - just continuing my regular activities. I finished El Cuento de la Criada and started La Sombra del Viento by Carlos Zafan. I picked this book because it seems very popular on Amazon. I'm only a little ways into it and not extremely captivated so far, but I'm hoping I like it better as I get into it. Other than that I continue listening to VOA news and Radio Ambulante and watching El Internado. Now that I am a bunch of episodes in (almost finished with Season 2) I find that the subtitles are more of a distraction than an aide, so I am watching each episode only once, mostly without the subtitles. I do find that I have to backtrack in a few places to rewatch with subtitles, but it's not too bad. I'm continuing with my Spanish class. I find it very helpful to have that speaking time, and the homework which involves writing, something I normally never do, is helpful as well. I've resolved to stick with this teacher for two months and then re-evaluate. It's quite expensive so I may switch to iTalki after that.

French - am currently on lesson 19 of Duolingo and 19 of Mango Languages. I tried listening to a few minutes of News in Slow French. I could pick out some words here and there but it was pretty tiring so I will try again in a few weeks. I'm pretty happy with Mango Languages right now for travel basics - I have developed a little routine of doing a few lessons on the automatic play mode while I clean up the kitchen after dinner. I am getting pretty frustrated with Duolingo, and I think I am going to quit and try Assimil instead. There is just too much context missing from Duolingo, I feel like it is a series of random information and I'm not getting all that much out of it. I used it for Spanish successfully but in that scenario I was a false beginner. Then Duo was great for helping me re-learn material that I had already learned thoroughly (via FSI) but then forgotten. My own memory supplied all the context that is missing from the program. But now I don't have that context, so Duolingo is starting to feel like a waste of time. Here's hoping Assimil suits me better!
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westminstress
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:30 pm

Hi everyone, I have some exciting news to report this week! And also some questions for the group as well.

Exciting news first! I had a blinding flash of insight reading Bex's log (I think we are struggling with some of the same issues in Spanish) that the only way I will learn to improve my speaking is by .... practicing speaking. So this week I did something I have never done before -- I went on one of those language apps and found someone to have a language exchange with, and we had the exchange this morning and it went very well!!!! I make SO MANY mistakes when I talk. But overall I can understand my partner and communicate - it's not pretty but I can do it. My language partner had about the same level of English as I did Spanish. We had a good conversation flipping back and forth between English and Spanish for about 30-40 minutes, and we agreed to speak again next week at the same time. And actually on the same app I have been in touch with someone else who also seems promising as a language partner. (I used Bilingua - the only advantage of this app seems to be that it has fewer people, and the ones I have encountered so far seem to be pretty focused on language learning as opposed to dating/socializing.)

I am having some frustration with my language tutor and not sure whether to continue the lessons or not. I said I would give it two months and I am only four weeks in. My frustration is that we spend a lot of time of the lesson with the teacher explaining grammar points while I listen, which I don't think is helping me learn to speak better. I do have to say that his explanations are good - for example with the imperfect v. preterite he really cleared away a lot of the gray area. It's not that I object to studying grammar, because I know that I use the grammar incorrectly when I speak. But I think that is partly due to poor oral skill and general discomfort with speaking and not lack of understanding of the grammar (my written grammar is much better than my spoken grammar). Anyway, having given it some thought since yesterday's lesson, I was going to email him and tell him that if he wants to go over grammar he should tell me the parts of the book he wants me to review before the lesson, I will review in advance, and then we can spend the lesson time with oral practice of the concepts. Do you think this makes sense?

In other Spanish news, I am now 73 pages into La Sombra del Viento and enjoying it much more, thankfully! The last few weeks of Radio Ambulante have featured Cuban speakers. Good episodes but I need to relisten with the transcripts because I definitely didn't catch everything they said. I've also been listening to VOA news and watching El Internado as usual.

Now French. I completely dropped Duolingo which was SUCH a good call. I am 6 lessons into Assimil and enjoying it. It feels like cheating somehow that all I have to do is understand and repeat the French. It seems so easy! I'm sure it will get more difficult. I think it's pretty hilarious that I have spent so much of my time so far learning words connected with smoking! Like buying tobacco products, asking someone for a light etc. I could have used this vocabulary 20 years ago but not anymore! I'm on lesson 29 of Mango Languages. This is a good complement to Assimil because it asks for production from the beginning; it is great for practicing speech/pronunciation.

I wanted to ask how you all use Assimil. I really do not understand the concept of shadowing at all. I tried to do it but I can't seem to talk along with the speaker unless I am also reading the text, and when I am talking I can't hear what the speaker is saying. This is what I have been doing:

Listen to the dialogue alone.
Listen to the dialogue while reading the french text.
Read the french text and the notes and compare to the English text as necessary. Make sure I understand the French text.
Listen to the dialogue while reading the french text.
Listen to the dialogue alone.

For the oral exercises, I do the same thing but I also repeat the french words during the gap provided in the recording. I also periodically listen to past dialogues at random moments to make sure I can still understand them - no problem there so far. I've been a little bit lazy with the written exercises - I usually just try to fill in the words in my head, but maybe it would be good to copy out the sentences?

I would appreciate suggestions for getting more out of Assimil, or perhaps what I am doing is just fine?
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westminstress
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:50 pm

Just a quick update. I had a very busy week so wasn't able to achieve as much as I wanted. It happens.

I had a much better Spanish lesson this week. I didn't say anything to my teacher after all, but we did have a lot more active conversation and we are reviewing the subjunctive, which is something I haven't studied a lot, so it is interesting to me. I do think my teacher has a way of making the grammar seem intuitive, which is great, though understanding it in practice and using it correctly in speech are two different things, of course. I do think my spoken Spanish is beginning to improve. I sadly haven't been able to have any more intercambios but hoping to do more of that soon. Otherwise I am just continuing my regular Spanish activities.

French - am up to lesson 33 in Mango Languages and 11 of Assimil. I've noticed that the Assimil lessons are taking me a little longer to review now, so I can't necessarily complete one lesson per day. Likewise I have had to repeat some of the Mango Languages lessons twice so those are taking me longer too. I am plugging away at French but not at the expense of Spanish! So I can't always move along as quickly as I would like. I do think I could benefit from some focused time practicing speech/pronunciation/making correct sounds. But I haven't had that kind of time lately.
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DaveBee
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby DaveBee » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:07 am

westminstress wrote:I wanted to ask how you all use Assimil. I really do not understand the concept of shadowing at all. I tried to do it but I can't seem to talk along with the speaker unless I am also reading the text, and when I am talking I can't hear what the speaker is saying. This is what I have been doing:

Listen to the dialogue alone.
Listen to the dialogue while reading the french text.
Read the french text and the notes and compare to the English text as necessary. Make sure I understand the French text.
Listen to the dialogue while reading the french text.
Listen to the dialogue alone.

For the oral exercises, I do the same thing but I also repeat the french words during the gap provided in the recording. I also periodically listen to past dialogues at random moments to make sure I can still understand them - no problem there so far. I've been a little bit lazy with the written exercises - I usually just try to fill in the words in my head, but maybe it would be good to copy out the sentences?

I would appreciate suggestions for getting more out of Assimil, or perhaps what I am doing is just fine?
I've only used one Assimil course, I think I did much the same as you, without the listening to past dialogues bit.

The method I've read on here and thought I would like to try next time was Small White's description of what she does.
...first I listen to an audio clip together with its transcript, hearing it perfectly, then I re-listen to it multiple times. In practice,

* I use audio-transcript pairs where the transcript is easy (no or minimal dictionary look-up needed) and where the audio is hard at first but comprehensible (you can make out the words and syllables) after listening once or twice while reading the transcript. So a 2-minute audio clip would take 2 or 4 minutes to listen-read.

* Then I replay the clip in the background for an hour or two, paying attention here and there, eg. while waiting for a webpage to load. No need to pay full attention at this stage because the clip would still be fresh and easy (that's my excuse anyway).

* I keep a log of my audio clips and I pick things to replay in the background from this log.

That's it. So 2 to 4 minutes of dedicated time, then just background listening. Needs some getting-used-to at first, but after a few clips you'd know what kind of audio-transcript sets to go for and how hard they should be. Adjust playback speed if clips are too hard or too easy.
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westminstress
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:37 pm

Hi everyone, I'm about to enter into a *very* busy period workwise, I'm sure my language study will suffer. During these times I usually just try to maintain some minimal activities and don't sweat it too much if I can't get to practice every day. I probably won't have time to check in here either, until it's all over!

Anyway, here goes with Spanish: I've mostly been maintaining my activities. I got very obsessed with El Internado for a week or so to the point where most of my Spanish activity was watching this show. I didn't do too much reading. I did continue to listen to VOA news and Radio Ambulante of course. And I had a Spanish lesson. Along with formal lessons with my teacher, I do have one regular language partner for practice chats. So far we have spoken twice, but we have general plans to speak weekly. Things come up of course, so it's not always possible. And I have a lead on a second language partner as well. We are both pretty busy right now but arranged for an initial conversation in a couple of weeks. I found these partners through Bilingua. It's a pretty crappy app but it does seem to have a selection of older, professional people who are interested in practicing their language (as opposed to dating). I do find that my speaking is improving from the regular practice. Last night I was doing my pro bono work and I had the occasion to use Spanish with a client. There were no translators available so I had to step in. I was able to understand everything the client said to me and communicate to him the information he needed to know. It wasn't pretty but he was patient, and he did get the information he needed. My goal is to be able to provide full and proper legal consultations in Spanish, and I am still far from that goal. On the other hand, I was able to pass a threshold of minimum competence which is a significant improvement! Before I simply would not have been able to communicate in accordance with professional ethical standards, and now I can, at least in some circumstances.

French: I am on Lesson 17 of Assimil and 33 of Mango Languages. I actually completed Chapter 6, Lesson 40 of Mango Languages but I felt I was not properly absorbing the content, so I repeated Chapter 5. (Chapter 5 was all the numbers and I needed the repetition for them to sink in). I could use a lot more work on speaking/pronunciation. And I think I would benefit from rewatching the Michigan videos at this point. But I really don't have time for this at the moment, and I have to remember my goal, which is simply to be able to have more fun as a tourist when I visit Paris in April.

A funny thing happened which was that I was watching the second season of Master of None which has a number of Italian speakers, and I realized that I could understand the Italian. I took Italian in college but I don't remember much of anything of it. I think my Italian comprehension is coming from my study of Spanish and French!
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westminstress
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby westminstress » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:16 pm

Happy New Year to all the language learners out there! A new year, time to check in on last year's goals and set new goals for 2018.

I set three Spanish language learning goals for 2017: (1) complete Memrise verb drills; (2) complete grammar workbook; (3) find a way to get regular speaking practice. And I achieved two out of three. I abandoned the grammar book part-way through. I still think it's a great book and would like to pick it up sometime. But it's not a priority right now.

Beyond getting Spanish input almost every day via books, podcasts and Netflix, I have one specific goal for 2018 which is to improve my speaking skills. I plan to do this by continuing my in-person lessons, at least for now, and also adding in other speaking opportunities like language exchanges, and perhaps italki sessions. I was in a good routine with some language partners towards the end of last year, but then I got so busy at work that I didn't have time for anything else, and they all got disgusted with me and quit. So I need to find new partners. I may try to add some writing output as well (I think this could help quite a bit with speaking, just getting in the habit of producing words, and also will help with vocabulary retention) but not until the second half of the year.

I am not setting any specific goals for French, but just trying to learn as much as I can (without detracting from Spanish) until my vacation at the end of March. After that I will evaluate whether my effort was worth it. And most likely will dial back the French substantially or completely so I can refocus 100% on Spanish.
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Allison
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Re: My journey to Spanish fluency

Postby Allison » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:58 am

I'm catching up on your log, and I see a couple months ago, you were a bit frustrated with your teacher. It seems you've stuck with him, though. How are you finding the experience a few months in?
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