tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

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tiia
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish, Basque)

Postby tiia » Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:42 pm

So far I feel like I'm making progress.
The university class is quite demanding, especially when it comes to the schedule. I'm just not as flexible as full time students. And I need more time to do the tasks (than natives), as it it something I am not used to do in Finnish.

I did practise Swedish a few times at the language cafe and I listened to some podcasts. I don't think I will be able to review grammar or practise writing before March, when the university course is over. I hope that I will really do something then, just to push my results into a better direction. I'd really like to get 1-2 fours (=B2), but most important would be to pass all four skills (pass = three = B1).

I did do some Basque as well and I discovered I may have the chance to attend a (online :( ) class twice a week for three months starting in May. :o The schedule would not be ideal, but should be managable somehow. Indeed a real-life class could be easier to attend. Now I will have to find some good spot (probably the library) in the city center as otherwise I would have to drop my dancing classes.. I don't think I like having to do online classes in a public place. Luckily Basque is at least such an obscure language that most likely no one will understand even a word of what I will say.
I see this as a some kind of once-in-a-lifetime-chance as my level is not yet too high so that it's ok to review some stuff in the first lessons. It should also help me to remember more words, if only half of them are actually new ones for me. And practise speaking with other people would be great, too.
The price is really ok for the intensity (122€ for 28 lessons a 90 min).

Unfortunately I somehow doubt, that higher levels will be offered through the same system at a later point. But in theory this would be the first out of three courses that should to get you to B1. Just that they are normally not open for everyone, nor would the timing work out for me.. As far as I know this is actually the first time Basque is offered for everyone here, so one cannot be sure what happens in the future.

I did sent an email to ask about the technical requirements and as soon as I know that I will probably save myself a spot and hope enough people are crazy enough to join me there.
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish, Basque)

Postby DaveAgain » Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:50 pm

tiia wrote:
I did do some Basque as well and I discovered I may have the chance to attend a (online :( ) class twice a week for three months starting in May. :o The schedule would not be ideal, but should be managable somehow. Indeed a real-life class could be easier to attend. Now I will have to find some good spot (probably the library) in the city center as otherwise I would have to drop my dancing classes.. I don't think I like having to do online classes in a public place. Luckily Basque is at least such an obscure language that most likely no one will understand even a word of what I will say.
I see this as a some kind of once-in-a-lifetime-chance as my level is not yet too high so that it's ok to review some stuff in the first lessons. It should also help me to remember more words, if only half of them are actually new ones for me. And practise speaking with other people would be great, too.
The price is really ok for the intensity (122€ for 28 lessons a 90 min).

Unfortunately I somehow doubt, that higher levels will be offered through the same system at a later point. But in theory this would be the first out of three courses that should to get you to B1. Just that they are normally not open for everyone, nor would the timing work out for me.. As far as I know this is actually the first time Basque is offered for everyone here, so one cannot be sure what happens in the future.
I'm surprised that Basque is taught anywhere outside of Spain and France! :-)
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tiia
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby tiia » Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:48 pm

DaveAgain wrote:I'm surprised that Basque is taught anywhere outside of Spain and France! :-)

Well, I got my question answered and signed up. So now that i have saved myself a spot I may write the whole thing less cryptic:

The University of Helsinki has Basque language courses. Three semesters until B1 as a part of a Basque language and culture thing one can include into the studies, if studying languages. However the courses are open to all students of the University. As I'm not a student I would not have had the chance to participate there.

But: Finns really implement the principle of lifelong learning quite well, so there are things like Open Universities (certain normal courses, that are free for the students, but cost a small fee for non-students) and Summer Universities (everyone has to pay, but students may pay a reduced price). A lot of the courses offered are language classes, but there are others, too.
So this way some uni courses are available to everyone, regardless their previous education. (In special cases it's also possible to get the courses for students only, but that is more difficult.)
And now for some reason the Basque 1 course they have at Helsinki University is also offered at the Summer University of this region (Helsingin seudun kesäyliopisto). So same amount of credits and hours, same teacher, same course description as at Helsinki University, just with the difference, that it's open for everyone, online and at a time of the day working people can actually attend (and with a fee). If students attend this, they can use it for their studies, which is why I expect it to cover also the same content as if it were for degree students.
It's somehow organised in collaboration (?) with the Etxepare institute, which is also promoting to learn the Basque language in other parts of the world. So there should be some other places, too.

Anyway, one thing I noticed about the language classes at Summer Universities is that those are in many languages just the beginners courses, which is why I assume, that there will be no higher level class later on that I can attend.

Btw. the languages one can learn here at the public adult education centers include at times also Swiss German or Catalan. I remember there was somewhere even Rammstein German offered... The variety can be surprisingly large.
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby Sonjaconjota » Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:28 am

tiia wrote:Btw. the languages one can learn here at the public adult education centers include at times also Swiss German or Catalan. I remember there was somewhere even Rammstein German offered... The variety can be surprisingly large.

Universities can be such cool places for language lovers! I took two courses of Irish Gaelic at my university in Düsseldorf, and they also offered courses for Yiddish and Romansh.
But what is "Rammstein German"?
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby tiia » Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:52 pm

Sonjaconjota wrote:
tiia wrote:Btw. the languages one can learn here at the public adult education centers include at times also Swiss German or Catalan. I remember there was somewhere even Rammstein German offered... The variety can be surprisingly large.

Universities can be such cool places for language lovers! I took two courses of Irish Gaelic at my university in Düsseldorf, and they also offered courses for Yiddish and Romansh.
But what is "Rammstein German"?

Obviously it is some "learn to understand some lyrics and some German basics". When searching for it, I found out it was not just one place offering this. The first one was probably in Kerava, but now I found some (online) courses from Ostrobothnia (fin. Pohjanmaa) and Lahti.

Here are some sites I found about it and a translation by deepL with some adjustments.*
About the course in Kerava 2019

Currently running online course in Ostrobothnia
Target group
Anyone interested in German and language learning.
No previous knowledge of German is required and the course is aimed at adult students.

Content
The online course allows you to explore the songs and lyrics of Rammstein. You will also learn the basic structures of the German language to the accompaniment of Rammstein's lyrics and become familiar with grammar.

Every week, online material will open up for you to go through at your own pace. The material consists of music videos, lyrics, vocabulary, instructional videos and exercises. There are no real-time meetings.

I think some other courses may have had real time meetings as well, but I'm not sure as I cannot find their descriptions anymore.

About courses in Lahti (same teacher as in Ostrobothnia) Article from 2021 I hope there's no copyright problem pasting the whole translation in here. (At least the article doesn't have a paywall.)
German is an interesting language for adult learners, at least if you can cram it to the tune of Rammstein. This was proven when Wellamo Institute added an online course in Rammstein German to its spring curriculum. The course filled up so quickly that the institute decided to set up a second group.

The popularity did not surprise Anja Kivivuori, the planning teacher, as similar courses have attracted people elsewhere. Rammstein German had never been taught at Wellamo before, but when a suitable teacher was found, it was decided to give it a try.

- I had a feeling that this would be popular. I'm a German teacher myself, but I wouldn't be interested in teaching Rammstein German," says Kivivuori. Instead, class teacher Anneli Niemistö has been teaching Rammstein German as a correspondence course in South Ostrobothnia, where she lives.

- I asked her if the same could be done online, and she was enthusiastic.

Kivivuori says the point is to attract people who are not regulars to the language course.

- I thought it would bring enthusiasm for the German language in general.

Anneli Niemistö, who speaks German as her mother tongue, has previously taught Rammstein German courses in Seinäjoki. She has noticed that they attract new groups of students, including men.

- Many have said they have never taken a course at the adult education centre. There have been young people and retired people too.

The lessons are based on lyrics by Rammstein, which talk about such things as cannibalism.

- Although some of the lyrics are harsh, they are very suitable for language learning because the sentences are simple and there is a lot of repetition.

- I don't use the more violent lyrics in my teaching," laughs Niemistö.

Every week, students receive new material to go through at their own pace and do exercises. Even the basics are covered. According to Niemistö, the texts provide models for pronunciation or even verb conjugation. The lesson goes through the words of the song with translations, and students can also watch the video.

- The idea is also to have a written discussion together on Peda.net.

The teacher himself does not identify herself as a Rammstein fan.

- After all, the band is much more popular abroad than in Germany.

Niemistö does not promise that the course will teach fluent small talk in German.

- The main aim is to understand Rammstein's lyrics.

The 12-hour course, which starts on 8 February, will take 16 students in each group, but not everyone who wanted to take part could be accommodated. If the experience is good, the course may be continued.

- You never know, maybe Rammstein-German II will come along," says Anja Kivivuori.

However, it is unlikely that the continuation will take place as a face-to-face course, due to the lack of a teacher.

Could the idea be applied to other languages and offer, say, Edith Piaf French or Eros Ramazzotti Italian?

- Anything is always possible, if you can find a course instructor!

Languages are the most popular subjects at Wellamo, alongside sport, with English and Spanish at the top of the list.

- Even now, during the covid time, the number of language students has been surprisingly high, but the group sizes have been reduced to make it safer in the classroom," says Kivivuori.


*For example DeepL could not translate korona-aikaankin right. It became "high of the season" and nowhere in the alternatives it even mentioned corona/covid. Come on.. It should get that one right nowadays.
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tiia
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby tiia » Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:49 pm

I finished the University class. Damn that was quite demanding with my schedule and everything. So it was interesting and everything, but I'm happy that it's over and I'm having more (flexible) time again. At the moment I feel a bit exausted. But I'm keen to see what grade I will get for all those written assignments.
I may do such courses in the future again, because in general I'd say that it was good for activating my brain and learning new stuff etc.

That means now there's a new focus: Swedish. I have less than six weeks until the exam (15.4.).
During the last weeks I had only been listening to some podcasts on yle areena (every week, mostly when sitting in the bus), read a few pages of the first Harry Potter and watched one documentary in Swedish.
What I will now have to think about is reviewing grammar and vocabulary, and practise writing.
I think my speaking practice at the language cafe has been ok, although I did not speak Swedish every week.

The documentary was about the deaf Finlandswedish community, which I found quite interesting. Unfortunately on yle areena it's only available in Finland. But if you have access to this somehow and are interested in the situation of a very small minority language ( =Finlandswedish sign language) and their speakers, then this might be something for you. In case anyone is interested in the link: Finlandssvensk och döv - en osynlig minoritet


edit: small changes in the formulation of the sentences. Looking at everything a day later, I could not let this post being written so poorly.
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tiia
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby tiia » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:59 pm

In the meantime I added a counter till the exam to my signature (the x behind the counter are for days missed).
Now it's not just time for doing something every week, but every day, though it varies what I actually do each day.
In fact I count all the days I did *something* in the language, even if it's just listening. And well, there are a lot of days with just listening. I have tried some online talking on discord as well and also tried P3 dokumentärer (audio documentaries from the Sweden). In those cases I noticed how much more difficult it is for me to understand rikssvenska. Finlandssvenska is soooo much easier. And the speakers from Finland also mix in some Finnish words, which comes in handy for me, but probably could be difficult for someone knowing no Finnish. (Anyway, those are just single words, so it should still be ok.)

From what I read here on this forum, the exam should be more or less entirely in Finlandswedish, so I'm not scared because I do not understand everything from a podcast aimed for native Swedish speakers in Sweden. It's still a B1-B2 level exam.

I've worked a bit with the Rivstart books again (I feel like I have forgotten a lot of vocabulary) and also looked up at the example tasks on the official website and tried to remember some other things to get a more defined idea what type of writing tasks I have to prepare myself for. Although the final tasks and topics are of course a surprise there are certain ones that appeared more often, so I try to prepare myself for those.

So here are some things I expect to be (partially) in the exam (speaking and writing):
- describing a person (orally)
- some kind of customer service situation (like buying tickets or so; also orally)
- writing a letter with instructions to someone
- writing a consumer complaint
- "Mielipidekirjoitus": expressing your opinion about some topic. You can choose probably between two statements. (written task)
(- Telling about some plans you have or so. Maybe also an invitation?)

So it makes sense to know how to write a formal and informal letters with greetings and all, because that is something you will certainly need. And remember different ways on how to express your personal opinion.
Last edited by tiia on Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby tiia » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:21 pm

Less than a week to go. I finally received the instructions for the test day. The instructions were partly in Swedish, partly in English. Since I nowhere have used English at the registration, it feels kinda weird. I mean I can understand it somehow, that it makes it easier for the organization, if you don't know what languages the person will know. But it is just so expected that everyone knows English here, that I wonder what someone would do, if they don't know English... However, most of the informations was presented in Swedish and English, but maybe in a somehow different way.

Surprisingly they start already half an hour earlier than when I did my Finnish test in November (at another testing center). As I'm not a morning person I'm actually not too happy about it. At least I should be able to get there a little faster than to the one in November, but I still have to wake up about an hour earlier than on normal work days. At least they did send us a schedule so that I know already which part of the exam I will be tackling first. - Something that came as a total surprise in November.

After today (still haven't done any Swedish today) I have only five more days left to prepare. :shock:
Fortunately next week I only have to work for three days, so I have a little extra time for Swedish.

I finally (almost) finished the Rivstart B1+B2 book. Hope to be done with it before the test.
Otherwise I have been doing less than I hoped to, but well... not really a surprise. But I have done something.
Podcasts (some from yle and P3 dokumentär), grammar exercises from Rivstart and some of the not yet done writing exercises, and I'm reading the first Harry Potter or texts from the Rivstart books (including texts from the B2+C1 book).

-------

Btw. I got my grade for the university course in the beginning of this year and I have to say that I'm actually quite happy with it. 8-)
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:37 pm

Good luck with your test!
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tiia
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Re: tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

Postby tiia » Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:04 am

The test went okay, some parts were good, others not that great.
We started with reading, the writing, had quite a long break and then went to the language studio to do listening and speaking.

Reading (60 min):
We had probably 8-10 texts of various lengths. (The longest was about one page, the shortest just an apartment offer). I worked through all the texts except the last one in just 30 min. But I needed 20 mins for the last text, because I found the questions were a bit tricky to answer. The last 10 mins I mainly just waited.
I was the only person in the room (we were nine) who finished before the time was over.
In the break (after writing) I could talk to the other participants and everyone was like "the last text was difficult/at another level". Some didn't even manage to get to that text at all.

Writing (55 min):
There were three tasks. 1. A message to a friend to suggest that you two start a new hobby together.
2. A message to your workplace to get time off work to study abroad for a while.
3. A text for an online forum. Either "Motion är den bästä medicinen" (excercise is the best medicin) or "Pro's and con's of a multicultural society". - Most chose the first topic (me too), because it felt definitely like the easier one. One may have had problems with the word "motion" and therefore chose the second one. After hearing what the other participants said (we only talked about the third task), I feel like I managed quite well.
I think my texts were ok, though they could probably be written more eloquently. I hope the examiners will see that I did in fact cover all the questions we were supposed to cover in the first two tasks.
Btw. I was - again - done before the time was over, but then still added a paragraph to the last task. So the time was really ok for me. (= the main lesson from my preparatory course for the Finnish test in autumn, even though that one was at a higher level.)

Listening
(about 30 min in total?):
You get to hear everything twice, because it is only the intermediate level.
I think it was quite ok, but some questions were tricky and when you actually had to write something yourself the time for writing the answer was quite short.
I was unsure about 2 of the multiple choice questions and the open questions, well... let's see. I managed somehow, but there will be probably some gaps, because I wasn't fast enough to figure out how to answer the question in time.

Speaking:
First I had to describe my neighbours (did I say I expect to have to describe a person? :D ) but I wanted to tell something that had indeed happend and I forgot just the key word so I had to use circumlocations, that were not really ideal.
The second task went well (calling a service to open your door; prerecorded dialogue).
The next task I messed up. I did not read the task correctly and only noticed it half way through. I did say something and reacted once I noticed my mistake, but the whole dialogue doesn't make too much sense anymore? I don't know. (I heard later that also others had problems with that one.) Also this one was a prerecorded dialogue.
The next step were five situations you read and have time to react rather fast, but at least there's no dialogue involved. I think those were ok.
The last one was choose between two topics. you have 30+ sec to prepare and the talk for 2 mins. I chose the topic of eating healthier. I don't remember the other option anymore, but it didn't really speak out to me. It should have been okay.



Speaking was definitely the worst part, especially because I messed up the one task. I hope it's still not too messed up and at least a pass (=B1), but I'm quite certain that this is definitely not a B2.
I do hope however, that I may get B2 for reading, because I felt like I managed quite well with that. I have no clue when it comes to writing and listening. I'm quite certain I should pass them, but the level? Let's not put too high hopes in there and expect (only) B1.

It is interesting to see, that from talking to the other participants I do think I should be at a higher level then those with whom I spoke. Although they were (maybe also jokingly?) more like they could register for the next exam date again. (Btw. most of them seemed to know each other already from some preparatory course.) However, the comparison with the other participants is somehow giving me hopes, that I wasn't doing too bad.
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