tiia's log (FIN, SPA, SWE, EUS)

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Cèid Donn
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby Cèid Donn » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:03 am

tiia wrote:2. The currently most interesting and fascinating language doesn't have classes where I live that I could attend. Only one during my working hours.* Material exists, but not in masses and not from any base language. Though I know the most important base language. (It's not English.) I know a speaker of that language though.
3. My Finnish languageexchange partner suggested we could also start a new language together. They suggested yet another language. Interesting here: we have to consider, that the languages we're both interested in are mostly already learned by one of us.

Can you guess which languages may be the ones considered in point 2 and 3?


One of the Sami languages?
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:38 am

2 > Finnish sign language?
3 > Lithuanian or Estonian?
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby tiia » Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:48 pm

DaveAgain wrote:2 > Finnish sign language?
3 > Lithuanian or Estonian?

You almost nailed it.
For point 3 it's indeed Estonian, though my countersuggestion was Finnish sign language. However, it's not the language I had in mind for point 2.
To be honest, when I wrote that post I had almost forgotten, that when I take classes in Finland my material will be in Finnish and that this might relevant in this post. :D It feels so natural now, that I didn't think about it that much.
Though I did expect Sami languages to come up under point 2.

That said, it should be obvious now, that the base language for the language under point 2 is in fact Spanish, because there are not that many languages, where a Swedish base would make any sense for me.

(However, when I think about it: it could be possible if it's a course organised by the Swedish folk high school, but then it's still not because there's not enough material in other languages.)
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:39 pm

tiia wrote:
That said, it should be obvious now, that the base language for the language under point 2 is in fact Spanish, because there are not that many languages, where a Swedish base would make any sense for me.

(However, when I think about it: it could be possible if it's a course organised by the Swedish folk high school, but then it's still not because there's not enough material in other languages.)
A Spanish base suggests Basque, Catalan or Portuguese, I'm guessing Portuguese! :-)
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby tiia » Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:17 pm

DaveAgain wrote:A Spanish base suggests Basque, Catalan or Portuguese, I'm guessing Portuguese! :-)

But it's Basque.

Courses for Catalan and Portguese would not be a problem. In general there are courses for a lot of languages in Finland. It seems Finns really take the lifelong learning to the next level. I like that. :)

You know, I'm not so much a learner of the most common languages (except for Spanish). :D
The interest comes mainly because of this friend, that I had mentioned and well, the language is extremely fascinating. It looks a bit like Finnish to me 15 years ago: Letters one can recognize, but they don't seem to make any sense at all.
Grammar-wise it's so different that it may be another interesting exercise for my brain. Having learned Finnish to my current level, I know that I can learn a language that is different from everything I know. As long as there are resources, it just takes time.
The thing I am most sceptical about is the lack of a course that I can attend, because I know myself and how I learned (and not learned) languages in the past.
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby tiia » Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:30 pm

When people recently liked the story of Alma and the giant fish (see one page before) I remembered, that I have another one from last year. Definitely the longest one so far longer and it needed quite some corrections. (Luckily my friend, who corrects them, seems to like these stories.) The whole story somehow got a bit out of hands so it took me way too much time to finish. For now I still should write a bit shorter stories. But at least you can have some some fun reading :)

Btw. I used Rory's Story Cubes as inspiration. (Did I actually ever mention them before?) They definitely help me to find something to write about that I do not find boring. I should just do this more often.

El trol

Érase una vez un trol, que vivía en las montañas. Él estaba muy solo y por eso quería buscar una pareja. Él abandonó las montañas y el bosque conocido. Por muchos días él no encontró a nadie. Ni animal, ni trol. Hasta que una tarde el trol vio luz en el horizonte.
“Eso debería ser un pueblo” pensó. La distancia era muy larga y por eso él decidió, que seguiría al día siguiente. Esa noche él tuvo sueños muy suaves, los mejores desde que él había ido de su familia a las montañas como todos los troles de su edad.

A la madrugada él se despertó rápidamente y fue en la dirección en que él había visto la luz. Al mediodía apareció súbitamente un seto enfrente de él. Había un agujero pequeño a la izquierda, por lo tanto él fue allí. A ambos lados había seto. A veces el camino cambiaba la dirección. Había de vez en cuando caminos a la derecha o al la izquierda, pero el trol caminaba todo recto cuando era posible.
Cuando el trol había caminado ya por algún tiempo el se dio cuenta de que estaba en un laberinto. No sabía donde estaba y el seto era tan alto que no podía ver el sol. El se sentó y pensó. ¿Cómo podía ir al pueblo que había visto el día anterior? ¿Y cómo podía salir de el laberinto?
Y así él se quedó sentado. Esperando que algo pasara y pensando que hubiera sido mejor si nunca hubiera dejado sus montañas.
Era tarde cuando él oyó algo. De súbito algo estaba enfrente de su nariz y habló.
“Pues. Eso me faltaba. Un trol en nuestro laberinto.”
El trol intentó ver quién hablaba, pero ella estaba demasiado cerca.
“Pues, pues pues. ¿Qué haces aquí?”
“Soy de las montañas.”
“¿Y tu nombre?”
El trol pensó y entonces dijo: “No tengo nombre. Pero me llaman Bob. Todos nos llamamos Bob.”
“También las mujeres?”
“Hm.. Sí, esas se llaman también Bob.”
“Vale, Bob. Tu no deberías estar aquí. Pero obviamente estás.”
“¿Y eso es un problema?”
“¡Claro que sí! Esto es el laberinto de las hadas. Y tú no eres un hada.”
“¿Y qué quieres hacer ahora?”
“Tienes que dejar el laberinto, por supuesto. Nada más fácil que eso.”
“Sí… nada más fácil que eso...” Él gruñó.
“¡Vete!”
El trol se quedó sentado.
“¿Qué? ¡Vete!”
Nada pasó, pero entonces el trol dijo: “Es que no sé el camino.”
“¿No sabes el camino?” el hada pensó un momento. “Bueno. Entonces sígueme.”
El trol se puso en pie y siguió a la pequeña hada.
“¿Adónde tienes que ir?” ella preguntó.
“He visto un pueblo detrás de ese laberinto.”
“Eso no está cerca. Y tú vas a pie. Sería más fácil sí pudieras volar.”
El trol no decía nada.
“¿Sabes qué? ¿Quieres probar a volar? Tengo una amiga que puede ayudar con eso.”
Otra vez el trol no dijo nada.
“Pues, entonces hacemos así. Por cierto, soy Gabriella-Araminica.”
El hada volaba más rápido que antes, así que el trol tenía problemas para seguirla. Pero cada vez que él perdía a ella de vista, ella esperaba.

Después de una hora llegaron a una pequeña plaza. Aquí había un humo muy denso, y un poco después el trol vio una olla con contenidos muy extraños. Líquidos de todos los colores, desde naranja hasta violeta, pero ninguno transparente como el agua.
“¿Quién hay ahí?” preguntó una voz desconocida.
“Gabriella-Araminica. Necesito tu ayuda.”
“¿Ah, sí? ¿Qué pasa ahora?”

Detrás de una olla apareció otra hada con alas que brillaban en un violeta muy intenso. Ella vio el trol, miró a Gabriella-Araminica, miró al trol y otra vez a Gabriella-Araminica.
“Pues… entiendo. ¿Y con qué quieres que te ayude?
“Pensaba, que sería más fácil ir volando desde aquí”
“Ah, por supuesto…” la nueva hada se acercó. “Puede ser que no funcione. Él no es realmente pequeño”.
El trol no entendió nada, pero tampoco no decía nada.
“Tenemos que intentarlo. Sabes no hay tanto tiempo y la puerta ya se movió”
“Vaya.”
El hada con las alas violetas desapareció, pero volvió un poco después con una botella que estaba llena de un liquido de color azul. Ella abrió la botella.
“Bebe.”
El trol no tocó la botella. “¿Qué es?”
“Para que puedes irte de este laberinto.”
El trol dudó.
“Bebe.” insistió el hada.
El trol se dio cuenta de que no tenía otra opción. “¿Todo?”
“Todo.”
El trol no se resistió más, tomó la botella y se bebió todo.

Bob no sabia donde estaba. Estaba echado en la tierra. Él intentó sentarse. Y entonces él se dio cuenta de que tenia cuatro piernas, pelo negro en todas las partes del cuerpo y una nariz bastante grande. Todo era diferente: su cuerpo, su tamaño y todo lo demás. Le costó un momento hasta él recordó que querría irse del laberinto. Él vio las hadas arriba pero entonces tuvo la idea de que simplemente tenía que seguir el olor de sí mismo. Era bastante fácil. Y él se fue.

“¿Un perro? ¿Estás loca?”
“No sabía. Esa poción tiene un efecto diferente para todos. Yo ya te expliqué. Es bastante difícil con una especie tan grande. Nunca sabes qué pasa. Podría ser mucho peor.”
“¿Peor que un perro que se escape?”
“Sí. Mucho peor. Al menos está todavía vivo.”
“¡¿Qué?!”
“Tenemos sólamente que buscarle y entonces usar esta poción de aquí.”
El hada con las alas violetas tenía una segunda botella en la mano que era mucho más pequeña que la primera botella. Y las hadas volaron en dirección adonde el perro se había ido.

“¡Trol! ¡Perro! ¡Espera!”
“¡Bob! ¡Espera!”
Las dos hadas aparecieron enfrente de Bob.
“¡Guau!”
“Escucha. Queremos ayudarte.”
“¡Guau!”
A él no le gustaban esas hadas. Quería conseguir dejar ese laberinto de la manera más rápida. ¡Esas hadas eran peligrosas!
“Aquí tenemos algo de beber para ti. Has corrido tanto sin beber nada.”
Bob miró fijamente a las hadas.
Una de las hadas puso un plato en la tierra a la tierra y la otra abrió una botella. La plata se llenó con un liquido que parecía leche. El olor fue delicioso. Y entonces el perro probó la poción. Decidió que estaba muy rica y se bebió el resto de la poción también.
Súbitamente el perro se sintió cansado y se durmió después de pocos minutos.

Cuando despertó otra vez todavía tenía su color negro, pero dos de sus pies se habían transformado en alas. En vez de su nariz grande tenía un pico. Él era un cuervo y los cuervos podían volar. ¡Las hadas habían cumplido su promesa!
Bob intentaba usar sus alas para volar, pero no sabía como. Lo intentaba y intentaba, pero no pasó nada. Las hadas entonces intentaron enseñarle como tenía usar sus alas.

Poco tiempo después Gabriella-Araminica dijo: “Esto no va a funcionar. No tenemos mucho tiempo hasta que la puerta se cierre para siempre para él. Hemos perdido ya mucho tiempo con todo eso.”
“¿Y qué se supone que haremos?”
Gabrielle-Araminica pensó un momento y dijo entonces: “Un globo. Haremos un globo.”
Ella voló al seto y tomó dos hojas. Puso una hoja sobre la otra y tocó el borde de las hojas. Las hojas se fusionaron mágicamente. Cuando casi todo del borde se había fusionado, el hada tocó la pequeña abertura que todavía había con sus labios y hinchó las hojas. Crecieron con cada aliento hasta que formaron un globo tan grande que tocó el seto a ambos lados del camino. Entonces formó una cuerda y ató el globo al cuervo.
“¡Je!” pensó Bob, pero esperó tranquilamente hasta que el hada hubo terminado su trabajo.
Un momento más tarde el cuervo flotó por el aire con las dos hadas al lado.
Cuando subieron, Bob vio el laberinto desde arriba. El laberinto era tan grande que no vio nada más, solo al horizonte podía ver las montañas.


Ellos volaron más y más rápido sobre los setos del laberinto.
Súbitamente él se dio cuenta de que habían cruzado la frontera. Las hadas pararon y lentamente bajaron a la tierra.
“Ya estamos” dijo Gabriella-Araminica. Ella tocó la cuerda y la cuerda se desapareció. El globo subió al cielo hasta se perdió de vista.
“Bueno. Ahora solo tienes que beber eso y entonces volverás a tu forma original. Espero entonces que no vuelvas a ese laberinto. Porque si entras otra vez, nunca podrás irte.”

Pero Bob no escuchó tanto. Más interesantes que ese hada eran algunos cuervos que él vio cerca. Él decidió que tenía que conocerlos. Así que él corrió, extendió sus alas y voló.
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby tiia » Sun May 01, 2022 11:08 am

Glada vappen!*

I started writing this update already a month ago, but never finished it.
I originally wanted to mention my thoughts on how to continue Swedish after the course I had at that time. That's because I think it would make sense to focus more on writing, now that my speaking skills really improved. (Thanks to this course, that I have already been taking for about a year.) But I liked the course, the topics change according to the current situation, so it's not too much the same stuff all over again and again and I still think it's better to do something not perfect than not doing anything at all.
One thing I was curious about was how this course would be in real life. So in the end I registered again. Total costs for this one: 33€ for 7*90min (yes, that is 4,71€ per 90min).

The previous was 51€ for 12*90min. I feel like it makes sense to mention the costs at times, because when reading the forum I get the impression that many think that courses are always really expensive. But they don't always are. At least the public ones here are really cheap. There are definitely more expensive ones in Finland, too (90€ for summer university courses, up to 90€/month for private schools).
I searched for fun what would be about online evening courses from Sweden and the ones I found were about 3450kr, which should be about 350€. I was kinda shocked. Is Sweden really that expensive or was it just, that I didn't now how to find the cheaper stuff?
(My thought was, that since I already use a book published and used in Sweden, I may increase the chance of finding a good course, if I consider online courses from other locations, too. But that price would be a no-go for me, especially for an online course.)


In March I was also looking for some audiobook in Swedish and decided to try the Hobbit. I ended up searching a long time in the library in order to find it. Though I knew it was in a shelf somewhere at that library. I had somehow forgotten about the youth section of that specific library since it's almost completely separated from the rest. Had been there before once... so I could have known. When I finally found it audiobook I couldn't resist and take the Lord of the Rings, too. :lol:
At home I realised that the Hobbit was still quite difficult to understand, so I headed out to hunt down the printed book at another library. It really took me two visits to acutally find it. This time I was aware of the fact that I should be more careful when searching and that I should check the shelf code more carefully in order to search in the right section. But this time I felt like either there was something wrong in the system or the person putting the book into the shelves made a mistake, because there was no hint to search for the book in the childrens section. (I did search in the youth and adult section this time.)
Yes, I could have asked, but...
Anyway, I made it already through the whole audiobook! Though it was sometimes quite tiring, because I needed to concentrate a lot to follow the story. Sometimes I had to re-read parts in the book, to make sure that I understood, what I heard. Listening to Harry Potter (4th book) had definitely been easier.
Maybe I should not continue with the Lord of the Rings, but take an easier book instead. Luckily there's plenty of content available in Swedish.

Otherwise, I have again realised how huge the difference between my Swedish and Spanish skills still is. I had thought that they would be at a rather similar level right now, but when it came to writing something or listening to the Hobbit... It's clear my Spanish is definitely much better.
I was able to practice Spanish a bit. Attended the language café, had a visit from my friend from Spain around Easter and watched a few episodes of Friends and El Ministerio del Tiempo. (Did I ever thank Cavesa for mentioning it in her log?) My friend and I wrote another short story in Spanish, meaning that we were coming up with the storyline together with the help of the Story cubes, but then it was mainly my friend telling me what to write. Interesting practise and really interesting to see how a native is composing the sentences.



Things in the world have changed. When I wrote the post about choosing a new language in February, I mainly considered Basque and Estonian as new languages, now - although it may seem counterintuitive - I'm again considering to start Russian. It's not that this language has never been of any interest (tried out some online material in 2013, choosing between Russian and Swedish in 2017, ending up in a workplace where Russian is one out of three languages used, having friends who also learn Russian...). I don't have to travel there to use it. Ukrainian could be another option, but considering the factors above, Russian would make much more sense in my case.



*(I learned this week that you use this expression only in Southern Finland. I had no idea.)

Image: This library has nothing to do with my search for the Hobbit.
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun May 01, 2022 11:54 am

tiia wrote:Glada vappen!*

(...)

*(I learned this week that you use this expression only in Southern Finland. I had no idea.)


The first time I heard this was - yesterday.

More info:
https://www.sprakinstitutet.fi/sv/aktue ... 18011.news
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby tiia » Sun May 01, 2022 12:16 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
tiia wrote:Glada vappen!*

(...)

*(I learned this week that you use this expression only in Southern Finland. I had no idea.)


The first time I heard this was - yesterday.

More info:
https://www.sprakinstitutet.fi/sv/aktue ... 18011.news

Interestingly no one in class could come up with a different expression than "Glada vappen". It's really all over the place here. :D
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Re: tiia's log (Finnish, Spanish, Swedish)

Postby tiia » Sat May 14, 2022 12:17 pm

Something I completely missed out when writing the last update, was a job training we had. It was - as you can probably guess - in Finnish. It ended up being a rather fast repetition of some content of my studies (poor work mates who had not studied this previously). Lots of new vocabulary for me... One colleague, who had not studied the content previously, pointed out that at least one technical term in Finnish was linguistically illogical and that he was really wondering what was meant by it. When I told him the German translation of the word he was like: "hey, that's far more logical. I would have understood THAT one." And another colleague was like "oh that's why this other word is called like this." (A lot of technical terms are just translations from German.)
There wer not too many of use participating in the exam in the end. We will see, who passed it. But at least we tried.

Still thinking about new possible languages. Today I ordered a book to learn Basque. Although I have not yet decided which language to take, this book seemed like a good start, because it is actually in German. :o Ok, it's a translation of a Spanish book, but anyways, this could make things a lot easier. In case anyone is interested it's this one: Click. You can even take a look at the first chapter and download the audio for free. The publisher has a lot of other rather exotic languages in their programme, so if you're looking for material for a language with less resources, I'd recommend taking a look here.
I had tried to get along with some online material for Basque last year and done a few lessons of Assimil (both Spanish-Basque), but could not really get a hang on it. One of the reasons was definitely that I missed a more structured approach than the one taken by Assimil. (Yes, I like being presented a table on how to conjugate a verb in one tense for all the different persons). This book looks at least promising. And if I really make it through the book, then I have the option to try to find the other books by this author in Spanish. Or I may get along with other resources.

During the last week I also played around with Duolingo Russian - an app that I always considered a waste of time. My opinion still remains unchanged. Anyway, I thought that I could maybe get a better feeling of the cyrillic alphabet and maybe could see, how interesting I find Russian in general. This is mainly because I'm slightly afraid, that I may not learn the alphabet fast enough otherwise, but it's for sure quite an essential part of learning Russian. So why not giving myself some kind of head start and familiarize myself with the letters and build up the sound-letter connection in my head?
But somehow I already start to miss a more structured approach (again, verb tables for the present tense!), so I don't think I will do this for a very long time. And the lessons titled "alphabet" were so far mostly in the style of "Tom, Tim tam." No, I don't learn a lot from that. And why do they seem to introduce mostly irregular verbs first?
Btw. I refuse to use the word "to use" or "to learn" in the context of Duolingo. It will be "to play Duolingo" even if it may sound weird, because I don't think I'm doing anything more serious than playing.
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