Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

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Exasperated
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Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:58 am

Hey everybody!

I've been thinking about, and mentally crafting an introductory post on here for almost a year and a half now. Having discovered the old HTLAL site during a not so stellar internship, I had plenty of time to trawl through hundreds of pages of language learning logs, sharing the extraordinary achievements and commiserating the pitfalls with the community - if in a somewhat vicarious manner. In the end I've written almost none of the things I'd mentally labored over; perhaps, as with language learning, just doing it is a better philosophy anyway.

For any that are interested, I’ll share my experience with language learning thus far:

What knowledge of German I do have, comes exclusively from daily usage and necessity. I lived in Germany for 14 months or so during 2014-15 and arrived with almost zero prior knowledge of the language. It's perilously easy to rely on English as most of you well know. I was (and am :D) fortunate in that sense, to have a German partner, or more specifically the family of a German partner who spoke essentially no English. Standing in the kitchen alone with her mother was initially a terrifyingly frustrating ordeal – but I guess there is substance to the saying 'pressure makes diamonds'. It certainly wasn't pretty, but it didn’t take long to start being able to make myself understood. I believe that overcoming that mental barrier early on was one of the best things to ever happen to me- in particular moving past the fear of making mistakes. Hell I make several mistakes every time I say anything still, but you know what? People almost always understood me. And as I’ve progressed the mistakes have become fewer and more specific in nature purely through exposure. Though my daily language in Germany was still English for work and study, being able to socialize at lunch time and not force people the table to speak English purely for my benefit, and making friends in another language is an experience that I never thought myself capable of, yet absolutely treasure.

I'm now desperate to move back to Germany. It's a long way and a big decision, but that's honestly what I want - and though it’s exceedingly complicated with finding work, visas, families, money and all those wonderful realities, I'm determined to make it happen before the middle of the year. Improving my language skills are one of the variables very much within my control. I'd like to follow a more conscious and preferably planned learning methodology. This is something that I think sharing my progress with this forum will definitely assist in.

My goal at this stage, is to even out, and improve my skills to a C1 level by May of 2016. At this stage I have been rated at a lower B2 level by a tutor from italki. As mentioned before, I differ from perhaps the more traditional language learning approach, is that I've not yet consciously looked at the grammar, nor 'studied' the language. Now that I am back in Australia, I think it’s probably time to add in some good old fashioned proper study, as well as continuing to chat with and enjoy native materials.

It is my intention to use this log as a place to collect and organize my thoughts, aid in accountability, and hopefully finally interact with the community from which I've gained so much. Many of these logs are posted, so I can definitely understand the impossibility of reaching out to every individual learner, but if anyone does have any: suggestions, ideas, criticisms, desire to chat in German, comments or the like, please feel more than free to share them. I would appreciate it greatly.

You know what, I'm not even finished with writing this intro, and I certainly haven’t proof read it at all. I’d intended to lay out some sort of a plan in this post, but I have the strong feeling if I go to bed without submitting this, I'll delete the lot in the morning. I'll post now, and trust to my dislike of half doing a task to bring me back promptly to tidy it up
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:26 am

Alright I'm back :) a day later than planned, but knowing myself, that's essentially par for the course. I thought I might start with what I'm currently doing, discuss some of my ideas for how it could be improved - and hopefully get some feedback. Otherwise I'll just continue to update this on a weekly/ biweekly basis as an aid in self-accountability.

1) Italki Tutor: at this point I'm chatting once a week for an hour with a delightful young lady from Dresden. The format is typically something along the lines of reading an article together and discussing it, or simply chatting about whatever might come up. I always look forward to that very much. I'm also in the process of finding a second native speaker with whom to chat - funnily enough I struggle far more understanding German men. Something about the traditionally deep pitch of the voice makes it slightly harder to distinguish, likely because 90%+ of my speaking has been with women. I've sent out a few messages, hopefully I can organize that for the next few days.

2) Lang-8: I'd seen it mentioned pretty frequently in language learning circles, but have only just myself began to make use of it in the last week or so. I've aiming to write a little something at least 3 times a week - writing skills are likely my poorest discipline, given a complete lack of practice and an inability to hide my grammatical shortcomings by text ;) So far I have really enjoyed the site, and the German's correcting my text have been wonderful - I just need to ensure I don't spend too much time correcting entries myself at the expense of writing them, but there are just so many people wanting help with English that I feel compelled.

3) Audio Books: At this stage I'm about 15 hours through Harry Potter und der Feurkelch. As a learning method it's exceeding my expectations for a number of reasons:
- I find it an extremely pleasant way to pass the time, which puts me in an excellently malleable frame of mind. For example, even whacking it on whilst performing light exercise (anything beyond a moderate jog makes it essentially just background noise, and not super useful in my opinion) is aiding me in learning new vocabulary, and JK Rowling often repeats these phrases in an almost anki-esque SRS system.
- The reader is a male. Silly I know, but it's also nice to get used to the deeper tones as I mentioned before.
- I'm so familiar with the story, that I can often remember the exact phrasing in English should I need to. Should I come across something I can't decipher, I'll usually rewind 30 seconds and recall the English translation, by the time the relevant sentence comes up again, I'm listening and ready to learn a new word/concept.

4) Miscellaneous German: Chatting with my girlfriend, whatsapping some of my German friends, reading the occasional article, listening to German music, listening to the Tagesschau in 100 seconds post. Essentially just trying to keep it a part of my life wherever I can.

That's about the lie of the land as it stands. I'm aiming to expand on these methods and also move in new directions, although I will admit I'm at somewhat of a loss as to what a good course of action may be.
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Elenia » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:21 pm

Seems like you've got a good and well rounded plan here already. I look forward to seeing how everything goes for you :)
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:58 pm

Hi Exasperated,

Interesting log- ie interesting circumstances and mission you are on. Seems like your tackling of German comes from the other end of the spectrum to my learning of French- you've learned mainly through direct interaction with native speakers, while I was abducted by aliens, sent to a far flung planet and was instituonalised (imprisoned? surely not!) and the only things I could find to entertain myself to remind me of earth were French courses (the aliens last visited earth 100 years back and were certain French would become the global language). I know what you're thinking- This PM dude is full of truthful truthfulness. Or, this PM is full of truthful truthings.

I sincerely wish you bucket loads of success on your mission to mingle with the native Germans in their homeland. From my dealings with reading about immigration laws etc learning German is likely to be the easy part- let's hope not- let's hope German is a LOT harder than we think it is. I mean those Germans need to do something to make their language trickier than it already is. Seriously, keep up the progress (visas and language). I'm amazed you made it to B2 purely without any formal study- that's pretty decent despite having lived there. Good luck!
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:07 pm

Elenia wrote:Seems like you've got a good and well rounded plan here already. I look forward to seeing how everything goes for you :)


Thanks Elenia! I will likewise keep an eye on your progress too - I'd already felt particularly drawn to your log because of your choice in languages. Though I know I clearly lack the discipline to multi-task at the moment, French and Swedish are right at the top of my hit-list in that ever elusive someday :D



PeterMollenburg wrote:Interesting log- ie interesting circumstances and mission you are on. Seems like your tackling of German comes from the other end of the spectrum to my learning of French- you've learned mainly through direct interaction with native speakers, while I was abducted by aliens, sent to a far flung planet and was instituonalised (imprisoned? surely not!) and the only things I could find to entertain myself to remind me of earth were French courses (the aliens last visited earth 100 years back and were certain French would become the global language). I know what you're thinking- This PM dude is full of truthful truthfulness. Or, this PM is full of truthful truthings.

I sincerely wish you bucket loads of success on your mission to mingle with the native Germans in their homeland. From my dealings with reading about immigration laws etc learning German is likely to be the easy part- let's hope not- let's hope German is a LOT harder than we think it is. I mean those Germans need to do something to make their language trickier than it already is. Seriously, keep up the progress (visas and language). I'm amazed you made it to B2 purely without any formal study- that's pretty decent despite having lived there. Good luck!


It's like you're a mind-reader or something PM ;) I'm sure you could get yourself started with a nice conspiracy theory/ new religion regarding the Francophone aliens - there's probably a nice tax exemption in it for yourself too. Thanks heaps for the support though! Some days it can absolutely feel like repeatedly running head first into a wall, particularly with the classic 'need appropriate language skills to get a job/ visa, but getting a job working there right now would be the easiest way to do that' situation. Ah well, one of the two will definitely give with enough headbutting.
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Elenia » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:25 pm

I have zero discipline - which is why German is going so poorly and Korean introduced itself into the mix! But good luck with your studies, I hope you soon get to the point where you feel like a bit of Swedish or a drop of French won't hurt the slightest bit!
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:13 am

Elenia wrote:I have zero discipline - which is why German is going so poorly and Korean introduced itself into the mix! But good luck with your studies, I hope you soon get to the point where you feel like a bit of Swedish or a drop of French won't hurt the slightest bit!


I hope so too! Quite possibly as soon as I'm once again in Germany and engaged in some type of gainful employment :D

Update time:

In the last couple of days I've stuck to what I'd planned pretty well I would say, I've:

    - Had another enjoyable hour with my existing German tutor - although it's mostly just chatting, I do find it valuable.
    - Found a new native to speak with once a week, and had a good first session.
    - Had a lovely conversation with an older German couple selling Wursts at a local market (naturally I also ate a couple while I was there)
    - Listened to another few hours of the fourth Harry Potter audio-book - er hat jetzt die zweite Aufgabe geschafft!
    - Found my long lost kindle and continued reading Eragon, mostly extensively but sometimes pausing to look up words I'm curious about.
    - Wrote a couple of entries on Lang-8

I think that's about it for the moment :)
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:21 am

Look at me updating this log for a second time in a couple of days; like a legitimately responsible adult!

    - I continued reading Eragon on the kindle; probably about a quarter of the way through now. At my present ability, I find it to be generally a pretty good level for either extensive or intensive reading. By that I mean, It's written with simplistic enough language that I can comfortably read at a normal pace and enjoy the story; but there is quite a bit of specific vocabulary that I couldn't exactly define, but is almost always understandable given a bit of context. Or there is the possibility to look up words as I come across them. That pop-up dictionary on the kindle is one of the best ideas that I've come across on here :)

    - Still listening to Harry Potter und der Feuerkelch - into the final hour now. I suppose I will power through to the next one afterwards, I feel if I also listen to 5-7, I'll be more than ready for something totally unfamiliar. Indeed, as someone particularly interested in modern European history, there are certain texts that I would love to read/ hear in the original German - we'll have to see how I go with those though, I imagine it's quite a step up.

    - Also downloaded and started to use Anki with some of the words/ expressions that I would like to move into my active vocabulary from Eragon/ Harry Potter. Full disclaimer: I gave it a crack once right at the start of my German learning journey, but unfortunately didn't possess significant enough determination to actually make use of it. Silly question perhaps, but if someone could tell me which version is the one that's so popular here (Ankisrs, IAnki, Ankiapp) I would be most appreciative.

    - Whilst perusing the forum, I came across rdearman's Total Output Challenge thread. I thought the idea was excellent, though I'm hesitant to commit fully due to the sheer size of the endeavor. I did however make a short vlog (geeze the difficulty of that was much higher than I expected), in which I somehow got all nervous, made quite a few mistakes and generally sounded like an ass :lol:. I uploaded it to youtube, but felt too embarrassed to post it in the end. Perhaps at some point, I'll actually plan something out and chuck it up here - I think pushing through that anxiousness is usually a positive move in terms of progression and plateau busting.

As a final observation and general aside: though I'm far less systematic, I can absolutely endorse the concept of cheating and consolidating as discussed by EMK, particularly regarding the metrics on the rate of comprehension improvement, and the value of cheating. The audio edition of HP4 goes for something like 26.5 hours. Though I could essentially understand it just fine at the start, it required virtually 100% of my attention. Now I find myself able to follow along; much as I would in English - indeed I often completely forget that it is in German for quite extended periods of time, and multi-tasking is a viable possibility. Clearly there are a large number of reasons contributing to this improvement (my original level of comprehension being possibly the largest) but I can only express how much I effective I believe EMK's concept of cheating and consolidating, and in particular using translations of L1 books you are exceptionally familiar with.
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:52 am

Update time!

    - Finished off my Harry Potter und der Feuerkelch audibook and commenced on the next in the series

    - Read perhaps another 100 pages of Eragon das Vermächtnis der Drachonreiter - it's always tricky to tell exactly what the equivalent in a physical book while reading on the kindle.

    - Had another session with my new tutor on italki. Those are always very enjoyable, as it just feels like chatting to someone who shares a common interest.

    - Trundled a few times through the anki deck that I am endeavoring to fill with new vocab/ expressions from my reading. I need to add more cards, it's a little too small at this point to be super useful, but I'll get there I suppose.

    - Had a conversation or two with my girlfriend in German, we hadn't done that for a while due to time restrictions. She felt as though my fluidity was better still than previously. Obviously this is pleasing to hear, but probably worth taking with a grain of salt, as I did feel particularly in the zone that day. As long as the standard continues to improve on average, I'm probably heading in the right direction.

    - I met one of my Dad's friends who has a Swiss mother. He doesn't speak German particularly well anymore, but even in exchanging a few sentences I'm always struck at how markedly different Swiss-German is. Reminds me of the time I visited Switzerland last year, and we ended up using English because my girlfriend also couldn't understand what they were saying a lot of the time. :roll:

I did see conversation exchange promoted by a user somewhere on this forum a couple of days back, and have signed up for that too. The more real conversations I can have with native speakers the better in my opinion. I'm also about to start a TESOL course to get my foot in the door in Germany, so I suppose an English-German exchange is almost a win-win for me :D
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Re: Exasperated in 2016: Jetzt im Ernst

Postby Exasperated » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:14 am

New Update


    - Continued with my Harry Potter audio-book, and reading Eragon on the kindle. Flying along with those; them being the easy and genuinely enjoyable activities that they are :)

    - I think I mentioned in my last post that I had signed up on Conversation Exchange. Well I sent out, and received a few messages, so I've been exchanging written emails (pen-pal style) with a few lovely people, and also had a Skype exchange for an hour or two this morning. Excellent resource really - would highly recommend it to anyone looking for more of that elusive native contact.

    - Wrote a new post on Lang-8 for judgement correction.

    - Futilely opened the anki-website and forlornly wished for the discipline to create and review more entries.

Things seem to be chugging along nicely, although at this stage it's sort of hard to tell. I feel that this B2 zone is somewhat like reaching base camp on a mountain trip; it's good to be here and the view is pretty nice, but by god there is a hell of a long way to go and it is hard to imagine how it can be conquered.

*Disclaimer: I also know absolutely nothing about mountain climbing, my simile is likely as poor as my case selection in German. Maybe I can blame the altitude sickness for both.
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