Tumlare's Log (Swedish and a little French)

[Carl]

This is a few weeks old now, but I didn’t see you mention in more recent posts having found a “more chatty, conversational style” podcast. If you have indeed not yet found one I recommend giving a listen to Talkshow i P1: https://sverigesradio.se/talkshow-i-p1

Thanks, wallflower! My go-to Swedish radio program for decades has been "Godmorgon, världen." On your recommendation, I have started listening to Talkshow i P1. It's not only fun, but it also has more conversational language and more language that's unfamiliar to me (or forgotten by me). You've definitely enhanced my listening experience.

[Tumlare]

I am really excited about the Super Challenge! I signed up for a double challenge for Swedish. I should be able to accomplish this if I maintain/slightly increase my current reading and listening pace. I want to focus more on TV and movies than podcasts in order to (hopefully) increase my comprehension of casual, slangy speech.

I also signed up for a half Super Challenge in a second language... French! I've been interested in the romance languages for as long as I've been interested in languages--I studied French back in high school and I was studying Spanish right before we moved to Sweden-- and I would like to get back to studying them. My current plan is to re-learn French using the Super Challenge and then use a comparative approach (a la The Loom of Languages or Seven Sieves) to kick start comprehension on Spanish / Portuguese / Italian. Plans of course are always subject to change and Swedish remains my priority.

What about German? I've decided not to push on this beyond just dabbling before my travel this summer. I don't want to spread myself too thin by trying to do a Super Challenge in 3 languages.

Swedish Week 16 update:

I felt like I didn't accomplish much this week but looking back at my notes I see that I put a fair amount of work in. I think that impression comes from spending less time reading than normal as well as taking most of the weekend off from language learning due to a combination of factors some fun (new music!) some less so (migraine!). I've noticed that the upcoming Super Challenge is have a temporary demotivating effect on my studying the past two weeks: when I want to watch a Swedish movie or show I'll find myself thinking 'wait for the Super Challenge it starts so soon!'.

Reading: I only read 52 pages this week. I'm enjoying Döda kvinnor förlåter inte now that I'm getting used to the language and style.

Listening: I listened to 7 episodes of P3 Historia this week.

I've heard it said that group conversations between native speakers in informal settings are one of the hardest things for a language learner to handle. I watched a YouTube video that illustrated that point this week. The video featured 4 guys trying fast food in Malmö. It was more difficult to follow than I expected--it seemed as if they were mumbling half the time they were talking to each other. I was despairing about my relatively poor comprehension until one of the guys got a phone call from the owner of the restaurant they were eating at. As soon as he started speaking into the phone his speech was crystal clear and easy to follow. Unscripted, casual speech is difficult even when the participants know they are being recorded.

Speaking: One of my classes was canceled this week so I only had 45 minutes of speaking classes. I attended a language cafe but the event was more structured with activities that meant that I didn't get much speaking in during the 2 hours.

I finally bit the bullet and did something I'd been meaning to do but dragging my heels on: I recorded myself speaking extemporaneously. And then listened to it. Without dying from cringe. On the positive side, my flow was good. There weren't any long pauses while I searched for things to say even though I hadn't given myself a topic or prepared in any way. Things that need improving: I definitely need to round my lips more for rounded vowels. This is one of those things that is easy to do if I am thinking about it but flies out the window as soon as I am focusing on what I want to say instead of how it should be pronounced. And of course the prosody was off. It was a good exercise so I think I am going to try and record myself once a week to judge my progress.

Writing: I didn't do any writing in the traditional sense. I say 'in the traditional sense' because while I wasn't creating sentences or anything of the sort I did spend some time writing some tricky irregular verbs 50 times each in every form (infinitiv, imperativ, presens, preteritum, supinum) in order to really lock in the forms. Thankfully Swedish doesn't change the verb form for different subjects as, say, Spanish or German does! Hopefully I earned more than just a hand cramp by doing so...

German week 16 update:

I listened to Language Transfer German episodes 16-19 and did the first two lessons of Nicos Weg.

French week 16:

I was given a copy of Assimil New French with Ease and I couldn't wait until May to start working with it. I wanted to see what all the hype was about! So far I have done lessons 1-7. I'm not entirely sure I am using Assimil correctly. Each lesson seems pretty short without enough repetition. I should create some flash cards but I don't want to get into editing the audio down to add it to Anki right now.

[wallflower]

I've noticed that the upcoming Super Challenge is have a temporary demotivating effect on my studying the past two weeks: when I want to watch a Swedish movie or show I'll find myself thinking 'wait for the Super Challenge it starts so soon!'.

You’re not alone here: I’ve put off starting a new book for the last week or so for the exact same reason! I mean, why do the thing for its own sake when I can count it towards some sort of streak?!

I recorded myself speaking extemporaneously. And then listened to it. Without dying from cringe. On the positive side, my flow was good. There weren't any long pauses while I searched for things to say even though I hadn't given myself a topic or prepared in any way. Things that need improving: I definitely need to round my lips more for rounded vowels. This is one of those things that is easy to do if I am thinking about it but flies out the window as soon as I am focusing on what I want to say instead of how it should be pronounced. And of course the prosody was off. It was a good exercise so I think I am going to try and record myself once a week to judge my progress.

I don’t know how much work you want to turn this into, but are you familiar with chorusing? It’s definitely work, but it can be fun too, depending on what one considers fun at least

[Tumlare]

Week 17 updates:

Much like last week, I felt as though I hardly did any studying. When I look back at my notes I see that things weren't as bad as I feared, although reading has definitely taken a hit. I'm not too worried about this trend continuing given that the Super Challenge is starting on Wednesday.

Swedish update:

Listening: The consequence of one of my favorite artists dropping a double album is that while I spent a lot of time with my headphones on, I only listened to 4 episodes of P3 Historia. I feel a smidge guilty about that, even though I know that it's fine to have lighter weeks when it comes to language learning. It's a marathon, not a sprint, yada yada.

Reading: Only 27 pages read this week.

Writing: I had an assignment to write poetry for one of my classes. Writing poetry in another language is not easy, especially if you are sticking to a format with a rigidly defined structure like a limerick. But I managed to get a couple finished which hopefully weren't too terrible.

I also continued my irregular verb writing that I started last week.

Speaking: 2 hours 15 minutes of speaking classes, plus incidental conversations around town with people in shops and restaurants. This was the last week for one of my two classes so the time spent speaking will be lower next week.

Other languages:
German update: Language Transfer episodes 21-25

French update: I'm continuing with Assimil French (finished lesson 15) and I started listening to Learn French with Paul Noble. I'm not sure how I feel about Assimil just yet. It might be too early to make a judgement call but it doesn't feel as though I am really learning the vocabulary that is introduced. Granted, French is a side project so I am spending less time with it than with Swedish so progress will be slower.

[Tumlare]

A few musings on the eve of the Super Challenge:

I set a goal to read 5000 pages in Swedish in 2024. We're now 1/3 of the way through the year and as of today, I have read 1876 pages, which is right in line with hitting my goal for the year. My total pages read since 2021 is 5307. I will almost triple this number if I complete the double Super Challenge as intended. I am right in the middle of an engaging book but once that is finished I will need to head to the library to check out additional reading material.

The listening component will be more difficult. I have around 45 or so more episodes of P3 Historia to listen to. Each one is about 55 minutes long, so that means I only have ~2500 minutes of listening lined up. Quite a ways off from 18000 minutes! That's 900 minutes or 15 hours of listening each month, or around a half hour each day. It doesn't sound so intimidating when I put it in daily terms. I would like to start by watching Hela Sverige Bakar (The Swedish addition of the Great British Bakeoff) but I might start with something available on SVT Play instead. I'm welcome to any suggestions!

French is more of a challenge since I am just dipping my toes back into it. My library had some graded readers but they were all at the A2-B1 level. I think I might wait to get started on the reading and listening components until I have finished Assimil French.

[jeff_lindqvist]

I would like to start by watching Hela Sverige Bakar (The Swedish addition of the Great British Bakeoff) but I might start with something available on SVT Play instead. I'm welcome to any suggestions!

Are you looking for something with a lot of audio content? Natural speech? A variety of voices and accents? I think you'll find most words per minute in the quiz show Alla mot alla med Filip och Fredrik (it's on Kanal 5, accessible through Discovery Plus).

However, on SVT Play, anything from Djur och natur is worth watching, and the Swedish language content is usually narrated by Henrik Ekman. 5/5

Then anything from Världens historia.

Lifestyle series like Husdrömmar, Vem bor här?, talkshows ...

Don't forget Öppet arkiv where you'll find older series (sorted by theme, and then decade in descending order). Also don't forget that you can watch everything with subtitles.

[Tumlare]

Are you looking for something with a lot of audio content? Natural speech? A variety of voices and accents? I think you'll find most words per minute in the quiz show Alla mot alla med Filip och Fredrik (it's on Kanal 5, accessible through Discovery Plus).

However, on SVT Play, anything from Djur och natur is worth watching, and the Swedish language content is usually narrated by Henrik Ekman. 5/5

Then anything from Världens historia.

Lifestyle series like Husdrömmar, Vem bor här?, talkshows ...

Don't forget Öppet arkiv where you'll find older series (sorted by theme, and then decade in descending order). Also don't forget that you can watch everything with subtitles.

Thank you! This is very helpful. I didn't even know that Kanel 5 existed... I'm not much of a TV or movie watcher even in English. I think I'll know more about Swedish TV after this Super Challenge than I do America's .

My goal with the Super Challenge listening component is to be able to reliably watch TV and movies without subtitles so I'm planning on casting a wide net and watching a variety of different genres, perhaps weighted more towards natural speech (quiz shows, reality tv) than scripted.

[Tumlare]

Week 18 update:

Swedish

Super Challenge update:
The Super Challenge started this week. Here's my progress from Wednesday - Sunday:

82 pages read

I am still reading Döda kvinnor förlåter inte. The book is quite good but the subject matter is rather heavy for a detective book. From the back cover: "Boken är en ödesmättad skildring av kvinnors hårda villkor under slutet av 1800-talet." ("The book is a serious depiction of the harsh conditions faced by women during the late 1800s.") Between the heavy subject matter and the large number of new words it is taking me a bit longer to get through this one than I had expected. As such I am already behind on the reading portion of this super challenge.
374 minutes of listening/watching

• P3 Historia podcast episodes: Mary Shelley (57 minutes), Cixi (58 minutes), Louvisa Ulrika (57 minutes)
• Historia om Sverige, 2 episodes (57 and 59 minutes)
  
  • I realized that I hadn't watched the last two episodes of this history series on SVT Play that came out this past winter. I highly recommend this series for anyone who wants an overview of Swedish history from prehistoric times till the end of the 20th century. I was able to watch without subtitles and understand almost everything.
• Invandrare för svenskar, 1 episode (28 minutes)
  
  • "Immigrants for Swedes" a game show wherecontestants try and figure out if a panel of entertainers with some sort of immigrant background are answering questions about other cultures truthfully or bullshitting. The title is a play on SFI, Svenska för invandrare ("Swedish for immigrants"), a free basic Swedish language program for people who have immigrated to Sweden. The episode I watched had a couple laugh-out-loud moments but also a few instances where I couldn't understand anything of what was being said. Casual speech with multiple people talking is hard! Watched without subtitles.
• Muren, 1 episode (58 minutes)
  
  • "The Wall" is a trivia game where people compete against experts in 6 different subject areas. I quite enjoyed this and plan on watching more episodes. Most speech was clear but there was banter/casual speech which I need to focus on. Watched without subtitles.

Pre-Super Challenge Listening and Reading: I listened to 3 episodes of P3 Historia and read 31 pages on the last two days of April.

Speaking: I had a great experience at a Language Cafe on Saturday! I spent 2 hours speaking with a native Swedish speaker and a German who has lived in Sweden for 20 years. The conversation flowed freely and I only had a few instances where I struggled with recalling a word (I even understood the few German phrases the Swede threw in from time to time).

Writing: N/a. I really need to do an output challenge...

---

German: Language Transfer # 26-31

French: Learn French with Paul Noble 12-19; Assimil French 16-22

I haven't started the Super Challenge for French yet. I need to learn a little more before I can dive into A1 graded readers and audio.

[Tumlare]

Week 19 update:

This past week was pretty busy between several social events and the Eurovision semifinals + final which meant that my sleep was minimal and so were my language learning activities. This week isn't much better due to some travel but I should be able to get back into my routine next week.

Swedish update:

Super Challenge Listening: 441 minutes
P3 Historia Podcast: Patrice Lumumba (59 minutes), Eleanora av Akvitanien (56 minutes), Raul Wallenberg Pt 1 (60 minutes), Raul Wallenberg Pt 2 (63 minutes)
Muren: 2- Feb, 9-Feb, and 10-May episodes (58 minutes x3). Watched without subtitles.
Kulturnyheterna Special: Taylor Swift (29 minutes). This special was released in advance of Taylor Swift's Stockholm concerts. I watched it with my husband so we used subtitles.

(I watched Eurovision with Swedish commentary but since the vast majority of the broadcast was in English I am not counting it.)

Cumulative listening: 815 minutes (4.53%)

Super Challenge Reading: 82 pages read

I coincidentally read the same number of pages as last week. I've made it to the last third of Döda kvinnor förlåter inte. In a thread on the General Discussion forum, I posted about the convoluted old Swedish system of addressing people using titles and third person pronouns instead of 'you'. Since the book is set in 1896, the characters use this system to speak with one another. It is interesting to see it in practice, although it makes me quite glad that the du-reform happened!

Cumulative reading: 164 pages (1.64%)

Speaking and writing: Nothing of note this week aside from incidental speech in stores and restaurants.

---

German: LT 32-35

French: Learn French with Paul Noble #20; Assimil French #23-26
I fell off doing Assimil over the weekend due to sheer busyness. This will most likely stay on the back burner until my travel this week is complete.

[jeff_lindqvist]

In a thread on the General Discussion forum, I posted about the convoluted old Swedish system of addressing people using titles and third person pronouns instead of 'you'. Since the book is set in 1896, the characters use this system to speak with one another. It is interesting to see it in practice, although it makes me quite glad that the du-reform happened!

I skimmed that article you linked to in the other thread. I came to think of something. In some settings (literature or TV/film), distance* can be expressed by 3rd person singular, especially in questions, e.g. Vill hon ...? Kan han ...?

* From upper to lower class, between lower class people, and in somewhat rural settings.

I just found a thesis:
Du/Ni-tilltal i svensk dramadialog - En undersökning om tilltal i fyra pjäser från 1925 till 1997 (by Jonas Andersson). PDF, 23 pages.

Enjoy.

I remember a Swedish teacher who told us a story about a train trip. Another traveller across the table asked:
”Vart ska hon åka nånstans?”