A colourful mix - current: Korean revival and some Portuguese

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druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: French, Persian, Chinese through Korean - a colorful mix

Postby druckfehler » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:54 pm

French I've had my first French lesson on Saturday. I'm taking a class at VHS (adult education center). Usually their classes are fairly slow, especially for lesser spoken languages. Fortunately they offer a variety of French classes, though, and the speed of this one seems suitable for me. We were 5 students (officially 6, but one was missing) with an age range of 21 to late forties. I quite like the group - it looks like we'll be able to study well together. The teacher was a bit nervous still (it's her first time teaching!) and her approach so far is pretty much just "ok, let's do the next exercise in the book", but she's nice and I like that she's a native speaker. The plus side is that her approach makes the course pretty "rapid", as the course description says.

Even though I took 2 semesters of French classes at university a couple of years ago, I chose an A1 class which starts from zero. The problem back then was that I attempted to study French and Portuguese at the same time, which confused me a lot. I also didn't know at all how to study languages effectively. I think it was a good idea to start again at the basics. The first session was almost effortless, but still informative - that's how I like language classes to be. I will try to stay on top of the language, so I can make the most out of the time in the course.

Korean I recently had an opportunity to speak Korean with strangers at a vernissage. My uncle has an art gallery and regularly displays paintings and installations by two Korean artists. Next year, he is going to organise a small exhibition in Korea and invited the Korean artists he will be cooperating with to Germany for a preview. I'm not that much of a connoisseur of modern art, but it was pretty cool - especially since they also did a Korean buffet. I was thrilled to speak Korean with someone other than my language tandem partner (which means using honorifics and all that). I also recently attended one of the monthly German-Korean meetings I used to frequent. It was my first time in 2 years. That was also a good opportunity, although I mostly spoke German. Koreans (and Germans) are usually surprised and impressed that I speak Korean. I think they must also find me a little strange. I always get the question why I know Korean and whether I was ever in a relationship with a Korean. I wasn't. I think most people just can't fathom the kind of language obsession that drove me to continue to study Korean, when I have no practical use for the language (except for the immense enjoyment it brings me).

Persian I have pretty much abandoned Persian for the past few months. The good news: Next week there's an independent film festival near my city which focuses on independent productions from Iran this year. I am planning to spend 2 evenings there and watch 3-4 movies in Persian with English subtitles. I'm also still thinking of traveling to Iran in the spring, but I'm not sure. It depends on a couple of factors and none of them are certain so far. Most people are skeptical in regard to perceived dangers, but I think it's quite safe for tourists and would really like to see this beautiful country and have an opportunity to test my (still so basic!) language skills.

Other thoughts I would really like to attend one of the Polyglot events in 2017 - either the Polyglot Gathering or the Polyglot Conference. It would be great to meet so many other people who understand this language hobby/obsession and maybe even have conversations in several languages. I hope I'll be able to take time off when they are being held.
2 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

AlOlaf
Orange Belt
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:11 pm
Location: USA
Languages: Speaks: English (N), German
Learns: Danish, Norwegian
x 366

Re: French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix

Postby AlOlaf » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:33 pm

Your English is masterful. I've read a good deal of what you've written over the years, and I don't recall ever seeing anything that would tip me off that you're not a native speaker. How did you reach such a high level? I ask because I'm hoping to achieve something similar with German. Also, do you speak English as well as you write it?
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User avatar
druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix

Postby druckfehler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:07 pm

AlOlaf wrote:Your English is masterful. I've read a good deal of what you've written over the years, and I don't recall ever seeing anything that would tip me off that you're not a native speaker. How did you reach such a high level? I ask because I'm hoping to achieve something similar with German. Also, do you speak English as well as you write it?

Thanks for the compliment! I think this level of English is pretty much the norm on the forum, isn’t it?

Since you asked, here’s my history of studying English:

Looking back, I devoted a good part of my life to this language and it feels like a second native language to me, although technically it isn’t. As a child I was taught a couple of easy words and sentences in English. But I really started studying the language in grade 6 and wasn’t into it until about grade 8, when I started researching my interests in English on the internet. A bit later I started reading literature. You could say I was obsessed with the language.

When I was 15 I spent a year abroad at a boarding school New Zealand and was completely immersed in English. I took regular lessons, as well as ESOL lessons (English for speakers of other languages). To give you an idea of my proficiency level at that time, by the end of my stay I took the IELTS test and got an 8.5 (out of 9).

I then continued to study English at university (I majored in British Literature) and also dabbled in creative writing and did some of that in English (mostly poetry/lyrics). Nowadays I use English at work (but apart from phone calls now and then this is mainly routine and doesn’t provide any challenge).

The year abroad probably had a big influence on my English skills, although I’ve seen people who reached a similar level of proficiency just by spending a lot of their free time with English media.

It’s hard to say whether I speak English as well as I write - the only thing I can say is that for me speaking English is similar to speaking my native German. I do have a German accent, though, sometimes more, sometimes less. I tend to do more of my thinking in English than in German - although nowadays I probably think almost as often in Korean.

I read something you wrote in German and it was perfect (not only correct, also perfectly idiomatic). Maybe you already are at the level you envision?
4 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

AlOlaf
Orange Belt
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:11 pm
Location: USA
Languages: Speaks: English (N), German
Learns: Danish, Norwegian
x 366

Re: French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix

Postby AlOlaf » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:35 am

Thank you for the detailed account of your English learning. I agree that the level of English on the forum is very high, but it's not unheard of for even the most accomplished non-native speakers to occasionally come up with formulations a native speaker would never use. I find the absence of such formulations in your English extraordinary, all the more so in view of the large volume of material you've written.

I can't say I'm surprised to learn you spent a year in New Zealand, because I've never encountered anyone at your level who hasn't at some point lived in a country where their target language was spoken. I've never experienced that kind of living arrangement myself, so I was kind of hoping you'd say you hadn't, either, which would have permitted me to dare to believe it possible that one day I'd be able to write in German the way you do in English. Oh, well. At least I have something to endlessly strive for.

It's rare that I write anything in German that has no mistakes, so I'm glad you read an error-free anomaly instead of one of my more typical gaffe-laden efforts.

I was obsessed with German for eight years, but in time progress became so slow and hard-fought that I began to think I was standing still. Now I'm obsessed with Danish and have been for about four years, but it pains me when I remember how I was going to see how far I could get with German if I gave it everything I had. I suppose the level I envision is the one I would attain if I were to do that.

I don't go in for mysticism or anything, but I get the feeling that the skillful use of language can create something intangible and other-worldly, perhaps akin to the invisible magic stuff that makes music stir people's emotions even though it's only sound. I don't know why such a thing should come to mind right now, but it somehow seemed pertinent.
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druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix

Postby druckfehler » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:49 pm

AlOlaf wrote:I don't go in for mysticism or anything, but I get the feeling that the skillful use of language can create something intangible and other-worldly, perhaps akin to the invisible magic stuff that makes music stir people's emotions even though it's only sound. I don't know why such a thing should come to mind right now, but it somehow seemed pertinent.

It's definitely a great feeling to realise that you can write poetry in a foreign language, for example. Or to be able to formulate something in a way that stylistically ties into a literary tradition you've spent time with. I find that kind of thing pleasurable in my native language as well, but it's a bit more magical in a foreign language - at least at first, until you get used to it ;) I sort of started getting obsessed with Korean when using English had become so natural to me that it lost some of its attraction.

I'm not sure the year abroad is such a decisive factor when you keep in mind that I also did a masters degree almost entirely in English (in Germany) and read and wrote a lot for that. And then I also did most of the reading and writing in my free time in English. I think a lot of immersion even without moving to a country where the target language is spoken might do the trick. But immersing in a foreign language that is not English is not so easy... I'm certain I'll never reach that degree of immersion with Korean, for example.

French is going quite well. I had 3 lessons so far and I'm surprised how much I seem to already know passively, somehow. Maybe from the 2 semesters at university, maybe because I formerly studied Latin and Portuguese, maybe because almost everyone in Germany has some knowledge of French vocabulary (this is especially true for the place where I live - even the regional dialect uses quite a few French words, because historically my city was occupied by the French several times).
I've downloaded a very useful Anki deck which contains 10,000 French sentences. It's supposed to progress by difficulty, but that's sort of a mess... I just inactivated all cards and search for cards with words and formulations I'm learning/already know. The audio seems to be an artifical voice, which is a bit of a downside, but it's still a great resource.
2 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

User avatar
druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix

Postby druckfehler » Wed May 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Oh my! I haven't written an update in ages... I was also pretty lazy language study-wise, mostly because my interests have lately shifted more towards music. So I usually find myself practising Guitar instead of Korean, Persian, French...

But I still have some exciting language news to share:

Persian I actually managed to travel to Iran last month! It was a very interesting trip. The palaces, gardens, bazars, mosques and archaeological sights are truly breathtaking. And I met lots of friendly, curious people.
I'm proud to say that I spoke lots of (basic) Persian during the trip. I even managed to book a hotel room in Persian - over the phone. Phone conversations are the hardest for me, that's why I mention it. Knowing some Persian in Iran certainly opens doors - although I mostly followed the traditional tourist route, I was able to communicate so much more with the locals. Travelling alone also helped with that. Sometimes speaking Persian opened doors, lowered prices drastically and generally made people even more welcoming than they already are. Sometimes I pretended to know less Farsi than I do, though, because some people were just too curious. That's definitely a first for me :)

French is on hiatus now - maybe I'll continue studying towards the end of the year. I liked having lessons, but going there every Saturday morning for 3 hours started to become exhausting. Maybe I need a class of the same intensity, but with less hours per week...
4 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

User avatar
druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: French, Persian, Chinese through Korean - a colorful mix

Postby druckfehler » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:56 pm

I've just handed in my holiday times at work and it looks like I'll be able to attend another Polyglot Gathering in Bratislava next year! Time to think about languages again :) The last Gathering was great. The talks were very varied and generally interesting and it was good to talk to so many people passionate about languages. I felt it was a bit sad that I cannot speak / understand more 'popular' languages. And in general comparably 'few' languages. I think I spoke Korean with just three or four people and Persian with two. But I answered a question in Mandarin on the last day. With all wrong tones, I'm sure, but I didn't know I had that in me. I also started to remember how certain phrases are translated into Portuguese. That just about describes what the Polyglot Gathering does to you... :D

I have not done any organised language study for a long time, but here's an update on my languages anyway:

French I feel French would be a good choice to 'prepare' for the Gathering. It's not like I'd be able to have much of a conversation by June, but even understanding more French would be great. I've been using a bit of French recently chatting with an Algerian girl who is learning German and wants to study here. I met her and her family on the train and offered that she can contact me if she needs any advice on living/studying in Germany. Nice coincidence. I'm now considering another 'intensive' Saturday morning course (3 hours per session), which this time would cover level A2. The time I did this with A1 French it became a bit exhausting, but... I eventually want to learn French. Besides, the Saturday morning class was effective and it would only be half a year of sacrificing lazy Saturdays. It would actually help me to have more productive weekends in general, I think. Afterwards I could probably do a weeklong Bildungsurlaub course A2/B1, which would mean 5 additional days off work - can there a better argument? Makes sense, too, since we are getting new French customers and I assume the amount of French emails I will have to write will increase slightly.

Korean Well, not much to say. I haven't used any Korean for half a year, I think, aside from listening to Korean music. I wonder if I'll start to lose it if I don't get back to it asap. But I have no real incitement to use Korean. A couple of half-read novels are still lying around, but I find myself reading German and English books instead. I'm not really in the mood for novels nowadays and reading Korean fiction still takes work and dedication, which I just can't muster at the moment.

Persian After the trip to Iran, my Persian has magically improved. It only really became apparent after returning to Germany. I was seriously overwhelmed and sleep-deprived on the trip, so I doubt my brain was even working half the time. I was lucky to be able to speak some Persian at the Polyglot Gathering. I've also been chatting fairly frequently with a friend I got to know during the Iran trip - it's great practice and helps me to keep up some progress. I'm learning so much useful vocabulary from her. I'm also still hanging around Iranians here in Germany. I now have an Iranian dance teacher and some of the dance students are Persians as well. We don't really speak Persian with each other, but it's great to know we could and helps keep me in the general mood for the language.
3 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

User avatar
druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Now: Portuguese

Postby druckfehler » Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:43 pm

...5 years later... :D

I've decided to reactivate this language log.

I haven't done any real language study in a long time. I've been focusing on other things like music and learning to program. I'm actually taking long-distance university courses for that and I was originally wondering whether I could get a second degree. I'm not confident that the degree will happen and it's not even my goal anymore. Studying Korean and Persian worked well for me, because it was intrinsically fun and really low-pressure. Studying maths for a degree is just really difficult and frustrating, especially without a study group and the pressure to spend lots of time studying alongside work. Not studying for a degree means I can skip the maths, but I will still be taking courses next semester, because there are some programming subjects left that I'm interested in learning.

But now for languages! I got a new job a year ago and it's a really interesting international environment. I now have colleagues in Brazil, Spain, Mexico, France and the US and my team does some work for the office in Brazil. Also, I have language resources available through work, so that got me wondering whether it wouldn't be both fun and useful to brush up on my Portuguese.

Portuguese was the second language after English that I really became interested in studying. I took a Brazilian Portuguese beginner's course while still in high school and later several courses for European Portuguese at university. But I wasn't a very diligent student and I disliked the many verb forms and conjugation tables. In the end, my interest shifted towards Korean and stayed there for a long time :-) Writing of which, I find it fascinating that there seem to be lots of people studying Korean at LLORG now! When I started out, it felt like more of a niche language and it's good to see that there's an active study group now.

I brushed up on Portuguese a little three years ago before I spent two weeks travelling through Portugal and I listen to and sing Bossa Nova, so I haven't completely forgotten the language, but also I was never able to speak much and I forgot all the grammar, so there's a lot of work ahead.

How will I be studying Portuguese?

For now, I've started listening to two audiobooks:

As Cinco Linguagens do Amor by Gary Chapman

I started out with this, because I was interested in reading the book anyway, already know the main points, and figured that it would still be ok for me and interesting enough if I don't understand half of it. I've listened to about 2/3 of the book now and repeated some chapters several times. The actual listening comprehension improved quickly after a couple of sessions. I can't concentrate on more than 30 minutes at a time, but that's fine. Now the challenge lies in all the Portuguese words and expression I don't know.

A Minha Vida by Michele Obama

I was browsing for familiar titles when I stumbled upon this one. Listening to an autobiography seems useful because it's near to life and will touch many subjects. I've just started listening. I might also use the ebook to read along now and then or to clarify sentences.


I will park my old progress bars here, just in case I ever want to continue them:

: 7 / 12 Sprachkurs Persisch
: 25 / 55 Chai&Conversation
: 20 / 50 PersianDee
: 40 / 86 Assimil Le Persan
: 3 / 60 PersianOnline
: 258 / 2016 Trad. Hanzi

It's good to be back! I hope to see some familiar names around! :-)
9 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

User avatar
druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: Now: Portuguese (formerly "French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix")

Postby druckfehler » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:24 pm

Portuguese To prepare for the trip to Portugal three years ago, I downloaded Duolingo and did some beginner lessons. Although I find the exercises a bit tiring (especially nonsensical sentences) it helped very well to reactivate my knowledge of Portuguese and I was able to communicate what I needed for travelling.

I want to keep my Portuguese studies very low pressure and low effort. I have to consider what I have time for and that is mostly audiobooks I can listen to with half an ear while I cook, clean or do routine tasks at work. I also have time on public transport. At the moment I spend that time reading the German newspaper or playing cellphone games (which is such a waste of time). I think this is time I can easily dedicate to Portuguese, so I've been looking for a good app to use and installed Duolingo again. I continued where I left off and the interesting thing is that I absolutely remember words on the app from three years ago. Some of these are words I wouldn't recognise in any other context, but I do remember the spiders, flies, butterflies and monkeys surprisingly well while I use the app. I would have thought three years would be quite sufficient time to complete forget words I don't find very useful :-) I'm not sure whether this speaks for or against Duolingo, though, since I only recognise these words in the specific context of the app, which is not that useful, but maybe it will spill over into real life eventually.

I would love to get advice on other good apps to study Portuguese (I also asked here: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17907). If you have any recommendations, I'd be grateful if you could share them with me.
1 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories

User avatar
druckfehler
Yellow Belt
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 am
Location: Germany
Languages: German (N), English (C2+), Korean (B2), Persian (A2), Portuguese (passive A2/B1) , French (remnants), Mandarin (bits and pieces)
x 144

Re: Now: Portuguese (formerly "French, Persian, advanced Korean - a colorful mix")

Postby druckfehler » Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:54 pm

Portuguese I'm making steady progress with Duolingo and As Cincos Linguagens do Amor. It seems that this audiobook was the perfect choice.

As palavras são trés repetitivas e a voz do narrador do audiolivro é agradável e fácil de entender. Ouço cada capítulo dois ou três vezes. Na primeira vez, compreendo tipicamente o tema geral. Na ultima vez, entendo muitas frases inteiras.

It's interesting to see how my comprehension improves with each repetition of a chapter and it seems almost miraculous when I compare my comprehension now to what it was when I set out on this renewed Portuguese journey some weeks ago. It's not like I studied lots of vocabulary, but I guess Duolingo, the audiobook and some Netflix in Portuguese have helped activate quite a bit of Portuguese knowledge I already had. I did take four semesters worth of language courses after all 10 years ago. The repetitive nature of As Cincos Linguagens do Amor certainly helps greatly as well. It feels like every tenth word is either casamento (marriage) or cônjuge (spouse) - both words I learned through the audiobook. And of course there are quite a few words which I can guess from English like auto-estima (self-esteem). Michele Obama's autobiography will be much more challenging I think.
3 x
Korean Grammar in Use:
: 0 / 93 Intermediate
: 0 / 85 Advanced
Portuguese Audiobooks:
: 2 / 24 Minha História by Michele Obama
Duolingo Portuguese:
: 72 / 125 Level 2
: 66 / 100 Stories


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