Diaconia learns Russian and jumps on the (Ancient) Greek Bandwagon

[diaconia]

Greetings!

First of all, thank you for checking out my language log! This is my second post in this forum. I'll really try to avoid rambling, even though it's oh-so tempting given this vast space. My goal is to be succint and to the point, since my / our time is better utilized for learning languages, right? I'll be tackling Russian!

---Tools---

I've seen Mook's log and, similarly, I've decided to do away with using Anki (for the most part), and use old-fashioned index cards with a numbering system I picked up while surfing and modified to suit my purposes:

Level 1 = red cards are new words that I look at as often as possible throughout the day (optimally just one day, maybe two)
Level 2 = yellow cards to be reviewed after two days
Level 3 = blue cards to be reviewed after four days
Level 4 = green cards to be reviewed after 7-8 days

I've been putting my new words in Anki anyway, because it's such a useful tool, plus I can use downloaded audio files from Forvo, if I can find them. It's my backup, in case I lose a batch of cards (which I've already done).

---Structure---

I'm using Red Kalinka (A1/A2). I'm learning short sentences. Out of one to two words I make a memory aid, as long as it doesn't interfere with the meaning too much. For example: голубой sounds like combination of "gullible" and "boy" and that's why he's "blue". So, we'll see how that goes. Memory aids are a useful crutch, but like any walking aid a crutch can keep you from walking on your own. I'll need to replace the memory aid with interactive experience. That's the plan.

So, here we go!
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Addendum - Added materials, assessments, benchmarks and the like:

May 18, 2023 - Assimil becomes the main source for learning Russian and Red Kalinka gets downgraded to a reference
June 23, 2023 - the Wanderlust bug bites and Ancient Greek gets added (Assimil)
July 1, 2023 - school is out and the 30:30 Challenge starts -- langugage learning leaps forward
July 30, 2023 - End of Challenge -- skills and learning assessments -- language learning slows back down to a crawl
September, 2023 - Language learning ceases crawling and comes to a dead stop.
February, 2024 - After a long haitus, Russian springs to life (in winter). Diaconia joins LingQ. Reading level closing in on intermediate!

[diaconia]

It's been five days and I think I have a working plan for my vocabulary. Working with about 10-12 cards per day, I've amassed about 60 cards. All new cards are "red" and when I think I've learned the new cards well enough, they get bumped to "yellow" (explained in my first post). I place a colored dot on the cards so I know when to review them.

That brings me to a point about organization. With cards continually getting shuffled around, I've made a box with tabs for the days of the week. I'll probably make tabs for up to two weeks. I think this will work. If I've successfully reviewed some yellow cards, I place a blue dot on the card, count forward four days, and place them under whatever day of the week that is.

This index card system must sound really tedious, but I think it will keep me honest. I don't know about anybody else, but when I use Anki, I tend to cheat: I often click "good" when I want to get rid of the deck faster.

My sentences from Red Kalinka that I use for my cards are getting longer, unfortunately. They don't waste any time. The topic of the lesson is "have". I've been relying on audio from Forvo to aid in pronunciation, since the sentences from the program are too long/too fast for me to practice with. For example "В России есть красивые города". That's a mouthful for me at the beginner stage, but I'll put in a good effort. I know it will get easier with time.

If my little system works out in the long run, I might use it for my nursing vocabulary too. I have a lot of anatomy and medication I'm trying to learn right now. Some of those CSE-inhibitors can be tough to remember

[stell]

I did something somewhat similar, with baggies and paper flashcards. I had one bag each for: daily, Monday and Thursday (twice a week), Saturday (once a week), 15th and 30th (twice a month), first week of the month (once a month), and June and October (every six months). It worked very well…until it didn’t. I love the act of making paper flashcards, but after a while the piles just got too unwieldy. I ended up throwing all of my cards into the recycling bin in a fit of annoyance.

Your system sounds more organized than mine, and I hope that it will work well for you! I look forward to reading your log!

[diaconia]

I hear you Stell, and you are right. After a while the piles of cards get to be too frustrating. I've already found a couple under the table at work. They slip out of rubberbands so easily. What's up with that? So what you say is indeed a concern of mine. It's one thing to have sixty cards and it's another to have six hundred! Those aren't just words, but also conjugations and variations on a sentence. Maybe I'll come up with a solution when the time comes!

[diaconia]

I’ve been playing around with another learning project.
In addition to Red Kalinka vocabulary, I’m using a word palace, but not in the way that most people use it. When using word palaces people will imagine a house with rooms and place objects in the rooms where they belong. Kitchen - pot, cooker, fork, table, chair (you get the idea).

When I started I wasn’t sure how I wanted to arrange my vocabulary (I guess I’m a language interior decorator). Then I got onto Russian roots. As I was looking at roots, prefixes and suffixes, I remembered what a Russian woman told me years ago. This was before I ever entertained the notion of learning this complex language! She said that you have to focus on the roots. So I started doing that and placing the roots in the various rooms of my “palace”. For my palace I have a very luxurious villa in mind. It belongs to one of our most materially endowed customers. It truly is huge. I was pretty taken aback when I first came to it. We had to use a remote to open the gate to drive onto the property. I haven’t seen all the rooms yet, which makes it the perfect p(a)lace for an ever-expanding colony of Russian words. This is just the beginning list. So here are my roots/rooms

KITCHEN - ед- яд-
ядовитый - poisonous
едкий - pungent, caustic, sharp
обед - dinner
еда - food

GARAGE - есд-
things that are ridden or driven (funny imagining a train or horse in the garage)
подъезд - reception
ездить - ride, go in multiple directions,
езда - riding,
ехать - ride, go in one direction
поезд - train,
проезд на автобусе travel by bus with fare,
приезд - arrival
выезжать - leave
уезд - county, district

BEDROOM - ем- (им-)
have or possess (the bedroom crosses over to the stairwell because of the prefix "pod-" = movement of going up or down)

заем - loan mortgage
занимать - borrow
имущество - property, estate
воспринимать - (vosprinimat) to perceive, grasp, вос- means “upwards” принимать is to accept
нанимать - to hire
подъём - ascent, rise
поднимать - to lift up
приём - reception
принимать душ - to take a shower (yep, there's a shower in the bedroom of the villa)
снимать квартиру - to rent an apartment

BOILER ROOM жар-
жар - heat temperature, fever
жара - тепло - heat
жарить - to fry
жаркий - hot
жаркий день

THE STUDY жел-
things with "wish" attached
желание - wish
желательный - desirable
мороженое - ice cream, моро- is used with “freeze” or “frozen”
благожелатель - well wisher
доброжелательный - benevolent

LIVING ROOM жи- – life
житель inhabitant
житель города - citizen
житьё - living, alive
живой звук - live sound
живот - belly
животное - animal
живучий - tenacious of life
выжить - survive, outlive
живопись- painting
наживать- to make money
пожилой- elderly

When I have the room, the root, and the meaning of the word (that contains the root) the story writes itself. The ice cream is desirable because both have the root of “wish” . I imagine eating an ice cream in the study. I don’t have cards or SRS. I’m just putting everything on one big mind map that I have to print out daily because it just grows! (I really should be in bed by now.)

The disadvantage is, these words can get pretty advanced and not a part of the A1-A2 vocabulary. But if there's one thing I don’t like, it's beginner lists. I don’t plan on being a tourist and don’t really want to learn dates and times, or how to find Red Square… yet. I might learn expressions like “half an hour” because that’s really useful. If I find that I can't remember a word at all (too much for me) then I'll replace it with something easier. "Well-wisher" is good to know but can wait until later. The weeding out process (Oh, I need a garden) will happen later.

EDIT: where would my post be without sources! AFTER I bought the book, Patrick, G: Roots of the Russian Language (NTC Russian Series) I found a list from this book at MEMRISE. https://app.memrise.com/course/195192/russian-roots-v/ It's free and all ready to go for those interested in Russian roots!

[einzelne]

обед is actually lunch, ужин is dinner.

уезд? unless you read Russian classics, you won't meet this word in everyday speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uezd
Did you get this word from your A1/A2 textbook?

Good luck with you study! I always admire Westerners who decide to study Slavic languages.

[sootynemm]

I used to use a combination of handmade flashcards and Anki, too, and definitely find Anki the better overall, but I think you're also right that a crutch is useful until it isn't and writing out words by hand is definitely something you won't get from the Anki experience (unless of course you're doing like iPad and Magic Pen or something, but even then...).

I hope you have a reliable and up-to-date source for vocab; I definitely find visual dictionaries a very useful tool for the type of categorizations you're making, although I guess a dictionary would work, too, I would just be wary of seldom used words like einzelne mentioned, Russian has a lot of that, I reckon. Would you ever consider using a German-language source for your flashcards? Also, if you don't mind me asking, what compelled you to start studying Russian?

In any case, успехов тебе!)))

[diaconia]

Thank you Einzelne. I'm happy to have a native speaker check my lists!

Did you get this word from your A1/A2 textbook

No, I ventured out on my own! I took my list from a book, "Roots of the Russian Language". I'm trying to break down the words into smaller parts so I can memorize them better.

I don't know if anybody remembers when Heisig's book "Remembering the Kanji" was really popular with the Japanese learning crowd? I have no idea if it's still used or not -- maybe something has replaced it. But he could memorize characters much faster by breaking them down into single elements (I forget what he called them). Then he developed stories to help him remember.

I hope you have a reliable and up-to-date source for vocab;

I agree, that's important. I have the book I just bought, and I think whatever happens I'll be happy to have a native say to me, "Uh, where did you learn THAT word?! Nobody says that." I'd be happy to be corrected.

Would you ever consider using a German-language source for your flashcards? Also, if you don't mind me asking, what compelled you to start studying Russian?

Sure, I could use a German source, like a book, for example. But the Germans seriously academicize language learning. The books are grammar-focused -- it's like learning math. That kind of turns me off. Russian is also not taught in the school system other in than a few schools in Thuringen and North Rhine Westphalia. My best bet is to find a Russian speaker that lives in Germany and just start learning from them.

I still use German when I make my flashcards. I use a lot of Eselsbrücken. I'll post on that today if I can.

And I'm studying Russian because I'm a member of the Russian Orthodox Church. My I want to be able to speak to people there. There's a very large Russian diaspora in Germany. It would also be nice to speak to my spiritual father in Russian. It's not a requirement, but his German is limited, and English is out of the question. I would love to converse with him on a higher level. I guess that's the most appropriate way to put it!

[vonPeterhof]

I don't know if anybody remembers when Heisig's book "Remembering the Kanji" was really popular with the Japanese learning crowd? I have no idea if it's still used or not -- maybe something has replaced it. But he could memorize characters much faster by breaking them down into single elements (I forget what he called them). Then he developed stories to help him remember.

RtK does come up here from time to time (here's my thoughts on it), but I'm not sure if anyone on here is actually using it right now. As for the replacement, Wanikani seems to be the closest thing in terms of breaking kanji down into elements (what Heisig called "primitives" and Wanikani - controversially - calls "radicals") and learning them in an order that allows you to build on existing knowledge. From what I've seen, the major difference seems to be that it combines learning kanji and vocabulary into the same process, while RtK is usually recommended to be done before proper study of Japanese. The usual self-learner "starter kit" recommended during the heyday of AJATT was RtK for the kanji, Tae Kim for grammar and Core6k for learning vocabulary in sentences.

[diaconia]

"Primitives", that's the word I was looking for. Thanks, vonPeterhof! Ah, yeah, All Japanese all the Time. He relied on rote repetition. SRS was coming into its own.

I don't see too many conversations on learning strategies, but then again, I haven't looked around very much. I was trying to copy "primitives" when working with Russian roots. A quick search lead me to "word structure analysis" which breaks words into bits. I also try to make associations that sound similar to words in either German or English. That's nice when it works. Repetition not very efficient (for me), but necessary, I know. I'm open to hearing how others learn vocabulary. I'm sure new "hacks" are being developed all the time!