Smelling the coffee in 2023

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Xenops
Brown Belt
Posts: 1444
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), Danish (A2), Japanese (rusty), Nansha (constructing)
On break: Japanese (approx. N4), Norwegian (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16797
x 3559
Contact:

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby Xenops » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:14 am

Congrats!! :D
3 x
Check out my comic at: https://atannan.com/

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby Cavesa » Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:53 pm

Thinking of it, I'd say I can be really proud especially of the 23 parlare. That's a huge step for me.

Now back to German.
-widening list of resources used "at once" out of necessity
-got a list of homework for the next lesson. Good. But still no real lesson plan for the rest of my lessons or concerning what to expect
-no answer to my reclamation mail (I wanted above all some written document stating the price of individual lessons, which are nowhere on the website or in my original documents, the conversion mechanism, and getting out of the contract conditions)

All this is very demotivating from my studies. So, back to my own plan and everything.

Priority resources:
-Erkundungen C1
--B Grammatik (later C Grammatik)
---Grammatik Aktiv A1-B1
(basically going as far back as I need to review and solidify stuff. C1 is a lot about not making dumb beginner mistakes anymore)
-older written homeworks
--Speexx
---Erkundungen B2
-ANKI all the Erkundungen and Begegnungen phrase lists up to C1
5 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby Cavesa » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:35 pm

I am not much around and I apologize to members of my challenge for not having done the counting yet :-(

I am having a German learning crisis, which affects my overall language learning and everything.

One could suspect it might have a lot to do with long work hours, stress about finding a new job, and so on. But nope, those are normal things for me. They were no less true in October than they are now. I am not a standard learner, and needed not to be approached as one, that's what I paid for.

The problem is the language school and I am extremely demotivated as the result. We have a meeting about that with the coordinator, perhaps the teacher, and the local director. Because I have a huge problem wiht how they've handled my case.

So, after 4 hours (generally good lessons, that's not the issue) out of my paid 12.5, I am at the end of Kapitel 1, out of 8. In the fourth lesson, I was finally told that the plan is 2 hours of class per Kapitel. That would have been reasonable, had we started in December as planned, and I would have even considered paying for the several extra classes. But like this: nope.

The promised learning plan is still extremely incomplete, I have a list of what to do for each lesson only for the next two.

And as I am having just one teacher, I have a HUGE lesson planning problem. Before, I was in the normal system. Very clear plan, and being matched in schedule with several available teachers (actually a dozen, as I could pick from two towns). Now I have no clear plan and just one teacher and I get to pick only from what is left after the normal system gets planned. So, I am called "VIP student" or "private student", I pay the VIP price, but get to pick only from very few options, which simply doesn't work with my irregular workweeks and 200 hours per month.

This way, I get 1 lesson per week only. And I had to skip two weeks. One was a holiday (which ended with me being ill and just vomiting and being exhausted in the beautiful mountains for a few days anyways), and one was the consequence of this bad planning. I had known planning a lesson in between the night shifts was risky. So, it was not that surprising to have to cancel, because I was simply too exhausted and feeling too unwell. I desperately need to continue the school's flexibility and putting language classes in my free days, or at least the best hours of the not free days. Not to pay twice as much as others but get to pick from what people with much freer schedules leave.

As the result, I am really unhappy about my choice to get in a language school. Yes, I got to reinforce B2, I really improved my speaking, which is cute. But I had signed up hoping to finish B2 fast (which also would have improved my further progress by covering gaps), and to get to C1, so that I could pass Goethe C1 at the end of March for jobs from May. That is now impossible, and I feel like crying, because German doesn't have any other value for me, and I didn't get the job hunting freedom I had paid for. I don't feel like studying, because German is now a waste of time (taking time away from CVs sending and from medicine studying in between work), because it doesn't do what I had wanted from it.

I've wasted over 4000 francs to fail. I could theoretically do it as I always do, study hyperintensively in spite of the school. I should have done that in December (and to some extent the January, in spite of the hellish work hours). But the problem is, that signing up for classes does move a part of the responsibility on the teacher, it is a sort of automatism. It is very hard to fight this and I am simply less resistant and less stubborn that I used to be. I wonder where do people who say "oh, a teacher motivates me to work harder" get those teachers? I have yet to find one. The system sort of worked like this for the rest of the B2, but it was not due to any of the teachers, it was the system, it was the clear curriculum, it was the clear plan that if I get through this and that, I will be at the end of B2 in X weeks. The system disappeared.

The meeting should be interesting. There was clearly some misunderstanding about my goals between me and the teacher, perhaps because we speak just in German together and I wasn't capable of explaining what I really really need. But I had hoped that 1.the coordinator would explain too, as it is their job to coordinate, and 2.the teacher would remember what kind of a student I am from the classes we had together. Let's see how it goes. There were some clear mistakes on the school's side (such as not being clear about the conditions before signing the contract, there is nothing about the C1 classes there, not even the price, and also the one month wasted on their paperwork), so I expect some organisation changes, and hopefully some classes "for free" or rather to compensate for having sold me a sale not actually applying to me and not having told me the price. Otherwise, I am hoping for any acceptable way out of the contract.

By now, I should have been writing here about my Goethe exam preparation, not about this :-( I am really very disappointed. That's what you get for trusting a school.

I am procrastinating and struggling, because this fight is lost. Thanks for having read it. Any kind of encouragement (or just a sympathy "yep, this sucks") would be welcome.
12 x

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2354
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14194

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby iguanamon » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:01 pm

Cavesa wrote:I am having a German learning crisis, which affects my overall language learning and everything. ...The problem is the language school and I am extremely demotivated as the result. We have a meeting about that with the coordinator, perhaps the teacher, and the local director. Because I have a huge problem with how they've handled my case. ...I am procrastinating and struggling, because this fight is lost. ...

What a nightmare! I am sorry you've had to go through all this for such very little return, Cavesa. I must admit, I'm somewhat surprised because you have always been an advocate for self-learning over school learning. I am curious as to why you chose a formal language school over self-learning, perhaps with a paid tutor experienced in C level exam preparation. My assumption is that given your hectic work situation, that you thought it may have been more convenient to do the language school option?

Anyway, again, I am sorry that you have had to experience all this. It does indeed suck.
Last edited by iguanamon on Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
3 x

User avatar
stell
Orange Belt
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:25 pm
Location: Canada
Languages: English (N1), French (N2), Spanish (advanced), Tagalog (perpetual toddler), Russian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17696
x 996

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby stell » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:02 pm

That is incredibly frustrating. :(
4 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby Cavesa » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:26 pm

iguanamon wrote:
Cavesa wrote:I am having a German learning crisis, which affects my overall language learning and everything. ...The problem is the language school and I am extremely demotivated as the result. We have a meeting about that with the coordinator, perhaps the teacher, and the local director. Because I have a huge problem with how they've handled my case. ...I am procrastinating and struggling, because this fight is lost. ...

What a nightmare! I am sorry you've had to go through all this for such very little return, Cavesa. I must admit, I'm somewhat surprised because you have always been an advocate for self-learning over school learning. I am curious as to why you chose a formal language school over self-learning, perhaps with a paid tutor experienced in C level exam preparation. My assumption is that given your hectic work situation, that you thought it may have been more convenient to do the language school option?

Anyway, again, I am sorry that you have had to experience all this. It does indeed suck.


Thanks.

I explained the reasons in the last year's log. What had motivated me the most was the system, with very clear plan for each lesson (binding for me and the teachers, with no wiggle room for them to slow things down), and lots of flexibility for planning (exactly because a dozen teachers could just teach what had been clearly planned, with lots of focus on speaking thanks to tons of homework before the class). This system was making me take two speaking heavy individual classes per week even with my normal work schedule, and to do the homework before class, with guaranteed amount of progress, given the proper preparation.

And this system ended months ago.

The main usual problem is looking for a "paid tutor experienced in C level exam preparation", as most tutors are simply lying or too ignorant to give reliable info about their experience. I've been disappointed so many times, that I thought the school (which regularly succeeds to get people to B2 exams) could also have C experienced teachers, if they claimed that. I've simply met far too many lying tutors online and offline so I am tired of searching.

And the problem is not the C level teaching experience of my current teacher, it is the lack of structure. And it is the usual problem of lack of experience with very ambitious learners, who need efficient fast results based on intensive studying. I have no doubts she has lead various learners to C1. The direct problem studet-teach was just a clear misunderstanding that I NEED and CAN get there fast. And the failure of the structure was the school's fault.

If I switch to any normal tutor now, I will pay much less per hour, true. But I will have to sort through the usual bunch of normal liars again (therefore waste money too), I will have the same problem with getting a clear plan together, the same problem with the tutors convinced "but no, it cannot be done in a few months" just because they have zero experience with intensive studying or with high iq, and I will have the same problem with scheduling the individual lessons as I have now. No single person with any normal schedule can match my irregualar schedule, that was the main strength of the school.

Here I am now holding a bit of hope of proposing the school to agree on the plan "1 Kapitel per two hours" and embarking more than one teacher on this plan, which would allow me more freedom in scheduling again. And also I want scheduling my lessons to be in some way a priority, due to the price.
7 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby Cavesa » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:30 pm

And why I chose it over self-learning: I don't like German. And that is already much much of a progress from the hate I used to feel towards it. It's not like any normal language, where I can just self study thanks to having both practical and sentimental reasons, and thanks to genuinely liking it. I am learning German for career. I was looking at it as an investment. I needed help, and I wanted to pay for it, to get wider job opportunities.

I was tired of self teaching it, and also it was much harder with my work schedule. And the plan worked. The schedule and system of the school worked. Until the moment it fell apart. :-(
8 x

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2354
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14194

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby iguanamon » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:43 pm

Thanks, Cavesa, I understand. I wish you best of luck in getting this situation sorted out for you to your satisfaction.
3 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4824

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:15 pm

It should surprise me that a business of any kind could fail to have a plan for delivering its product, but it does not surprise me. They seem to have misled you, and deliberately so. I am really sorry you had to endure this.
4 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

User avatar
Suzie
Yellow Belt
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:53 am
Languages: German (N), English (C-ish), French (B-ish), Dutch (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 040#p70040
x 440

Re: Smelling the coffee in 2023

Postby Suzie » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:08 am

I am so sorry to read about your problems with the language school, and I fully understand how demotivating the whole situation is for you. I feel you. Isn't it annoying that such external factors have so much power over our motivation? Logic dictates that strong intrinsic motivation should not be susceptible to disruptions that easily. We should all be more resilient...

This may be a ridiculous question, but don't you think it might be worth to gamble and take the risk to attempt a C1 Goethe exam this spring (March?) anyway without the help of the school? A while ago you mentioned that one great part of the C1 is the absence of basic grammar errors from A and B levels. From what I am reading, this is already something you have accomplished - you have become an incredibly strong B2 and solidified the underlying grammar. I am sure in some fields (such as medicine/science) you already have advanced vocabulary. And I would guess there is much advanced learning material out there to specifically prepare for the exam. You are an extremely experienced learner and have mastered so much. Plus, you know what examiners need. If anyone would succeed in such a crazy mission during a few weeks time, it is you - I believe that very strongly!

Anyway, all the best for your meeting with the school!
7 x
Super Challenge French:
100 books: 100 / 100 complete
100 films: 100 / 100 complete


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests