I've decided to start a language log to hold myself accountable, document my practice in more detail, and perhaps receive feedback or comments now and again from any forum members who feel so inclined. I'm new to the forum. I posted an intro with some basic information. I am a native English speaker. At the time of this writing (December 8th, 2022) I am primarily learning Spanish with some initial forays into Hebrew.
SPANISH
After several false starts, I began learning Spanish in earnest on August 24th, 2022. I've done *something* with the language every day since then. I kept a log for this, but it was not as detailed as it could have been. For example, I did not log my hours as strictly as I'd like to start doing now. Yet I do have a conservative estimate of total hours with the language for the time period of 8/24/22 through 12/7/2022, as follows:
ROCKET SPANISH (software course) - 50 hours
I gave this platform a test run with one of their free lessons. I found it to be much more robust than something like Duolingo. Rocket Languages frequently runs sales, so during one of their sales I purchased Levels 1 through 3. Each level is broken down into several modules (typically 7). Each module is broken down into several lessons, which in turn contain various activities. The activities for each lesson include the introduction of vocabulary, grammar instruction, and exercises for writing, listening, and speaking. I worked through Level 1, Module 4, Lesson 4.5, at which point I stopped for a while. That was a 42 day stretch of daily practice. I plan on picking back up where I left off, perhaps after the New Year.
This is the method I used for this platform:
I typically work one lesson a day. I've timed myself a few times and generally speaking it takes around 1.5 to 2 hours to complete a lesson the way I'm doing it. This includes the interactive audio (which is the core of the lesson presented in audio form), the "Play It" dialogue (which is a role play for the dialogue introduced in that lesson), vocabulary section (which includes audio as well as voice recording capabilities), flashcards, "Hear It, Say It" (where the audio is given without any text, and I have to record myself saying it back), "Write It" (audio is given, and then I have to write what is said), "Know It" (the English translation is provided in text, and I have to speak the Spanish), and the short quiz at the end. The time has varied. There have been some lessons I complete in an hour, and others that took more than two hours.
For the interactive audio I always speak out loud when prompted. For the "Play It" dialogue I will do each part one after the other, and listen to the results each time. For example, I will do speaker one's part, then replay the audio, then speaker two's part, and replay the audio. If I stumble on anything, like a word that is difficult for me to pronounce, or an intonation that doesn't sound right, I will redo the dialogue until I'm happy with it.
For the vocabulary section I play the provided audio, record myself saying it, listen to the provided audio again followed by my recording, and if it sounds like a good match move on to the next. If I notice something off about my recording (regardless of what the score shows), I will repeat it, comparing to the original audio, and only moving to the next word or phrase if I feel I am close.
For the flashcards I will only mark the card "Easy" if I was able to say out loud exactly what is on the other side of the card before checking it. If I get something wrong I mark it "Hard", listen to and read the correct word or phrase, repeating it three times out loud, flipping the card over each time to hear the correct word or phrase, then move to the next card. I work through the deck that way. When I get to the end, if there are any that I marked "Hard" (instead of "Easy"), I will start the deck over again to practice those. I repeat this as many times as is necessary until I have none left that are marked as "Hard".
For "Hear It, Say It" I listen to the audio, record my response, listen to the audio again, then mine again, and if there is anything off about it I do the same thing, mark it as "Hard" so that when I get to the end I will redo the section to practice any I have not marked as "Easy". Also, before restarting a section like this, if I've marked any as "Hard", Rocket will display a list of those items. I repeat each one out loud three times before I restart. Then I restart to work on those, and continue this process until all are marked as "Easy".
For "Write It" I do the same thing. I am strict on myself. For example, if I forget an accent mark, it gets marked as "Hard" to be repeated at the end. Only if I get everything correct (spelling, accent marks, punctuation, etc.) will I mark it as "Easy". I will repeat this section, like the others, until I am able to mark all of the items as "Easy".
Basically the same method for "Know It" as well. If I get it correct, it gets marked as "Easy". If anything, however small, is incorrect, I mark it as "Hard" to be repeated again at the end after repeating three times from the list it shows when I restart it.
I take the quiz at the end of the lesson, and when I complete a Module, I take the corresponding certification test for that Module that is in the Tools section.
DUOLINGO - 115 hours
106 day streak, beginning on August 24th, 2022. An end of year stats report from Duolingo tells me how many minutes total since I started using it. When I divide the minutes by 60, I get 115 hours. I didn't keep track myself. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I'm using it as an estimated amount of time on that platform.
ITALKI - 7.5 hours (including preparation)
I've had five 30 minute sessions, all free-form conversation practice. For each session I did some prep work. I estimate an hour of prep. The preparation consisted of me writing out in English things I wanted to talk about, translating to Spanish (often with the help of a dictionary), and then practicing saying those things using the script. 30 minutes * 5 (sessions) = 150 minutes, or 2.5 hours, plus 5 hours (1 hour prep for each session) = 7.5 hours total.
READING PRACTICE - 8 hours
Two short stories in Olly Richards' book Short Stories in Spanish for Beginners (2018). I estimate a total of two hours to complete a story, which would give 4 hours total with this material. It was good practice trying to read with no English translation, however, I did not find the stories all that engaging. I haven't picked the book back up.
Three stories from First Spanish Reader which is a dual-language book (Spanish/English) edited by Angel Flores. I'm reading this in order. I find the content to be much more engaging, and just above my level of comprehension. The way I've been using this material is to do three passes. First pass, I read the Spanish out loud without reference to the English. Second pass, I read the Spanish and cross-reference the English for words or phrases I don't understand. Third pass, I read the Spanish out loud again without reference to the English. If there are still words or phrases I don't understand, I will capture them in my notebook if I feel I want to review them at a later date. Some of the stories are only one or two paragraphs long. Looking ahead in the book, I see that some are longer and apparently (per the introduction) become increasingly more advanced (relatively speaking) in terms of tenses and grammar. I didn't capture actual hours spent, but I estimate one hour per story, for a total of three hours.
Two articles from La Opinión (an all Spanish news website based in California, US).
Again, I didn't capture actual time spent, but I estimate 30 - 40 minutes per article. Erring on the conservative side, I'll say 30 minutes each, for a total of 1 hour. For these sessions I essentially read the articles without looking anything up, and just tried to see how much I understood. There was a lot I did not understand, but sometimes I could get the basic gist.
OTHER - ~10 hours
There were several other things I did. For example, passive listening practices (mostly with Radio Ambulante, but also watching episodes of various shows on Netflix in Spanish with Spanish subs), short reading sessions here and there, some translation (using transcripts of Radio Ambulante episodes), watching instructional videos on YouTube, and so on. Not having logged times at all, again, I will estimate here, and err on the conservative side. I am just dumping all of these random things into one bucket and will say 10 hours. It was probably more, but I'm going with 10.
Grand Total: ~190.5 hours.
GOING FORWARD
I will log my time with greater accuracy.
I will increase the amount of time I spend reading.
I am considering adding more speaking time. Currently I'm doing 30 minute sessions twice a month. I might change that to once a week which would double my conversation practice.
While computerized resources are helpful (and some more than others), I'm feeling compelled to work my way through an entire course book (I have several). My plan is to start with Complete Latin American Spanish by Juan Kattan-Ibarra (3rd Edition, 2017) published by Teach Yourself. It's a beginner's manual that has a total of 13 units, with access to corresponding audio files. After which I will reassess and decide if I want to return to Rocket Spanish or possibly start the Assimil Spanish with Ease course I have. Or do both, or some other combination.
***
HEBREW
I will continue to spend the majority of my language learning time on Spanish, yet I have carved out some time for Hebrew as well. For now I am just learning the aleph-bet, including the names and sounds of each letter, and how to draw them in both block print and script. I will log my time for this as well as detail the methods I am using.
Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
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Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
Last edited by Monk on Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 x
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Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
9 December 2022
SPANISH
Complete Latin American Spanish (CLAS), 3rd Edition. 2017.
As mentioned in my first log post, I've decided to work through a course book. This will not be the only thing I do with the language, yet I want to experiment with using a beginner's text and seeing how much I can get out of it in addition to whatever other methods I employ.
[15 minutes]
I read the front matter of the book: Introduction, How this book works, Learn to learn, and Latin American Spanish: some regional differences (pages vii through xv).
Reviewed the Table of Contents and pre-read the summaries for all 13 units.
Edited the audio files in Audacity for the Pronunciation Guide; Vowels (file 00.01/page xvi), Consonants (file 00.02/page xvii), and the Alphabet (file 00.03/page xx). I removed all English and tightened up the gaps between the spoken Spanish to 2 seconds. This was a bit time consuming but I like the end result of having L2 only audio files that correspond with the lessons in the text. I want to do the same for all of the audio files associated with this book, but I don't want to do that during my study time. I need to spend time just prepping the audio so that when I sit down to study a unit that's already done.
[15 minutes]
I listened to my edited files, repeating the Spanish out loud in the 2 second gaps. Not quite shadowing, but it moves along at a relatively fast pace. Quicker than the original file. Total time for all three files is only just over 2 minutes. I repeated this process seven times so that total time is around 15 minutes. These initial exercises assume no previous knowledge. I am doing them as a review.
[30 minutes]
Unit 1, Pages 1 - 6:
I read the above pages, including speaking the dialogs out loud as I came to them in the text.
At this point I paused for something to eat. I then decided I wanted to start prepping the audio to remove all English. This stalled out my study time with this text, but if I front-load this now it will pay off when I return to the text. Still working on that.
Duolingo
[15 minutes]
I spent 15 minutes with Duolingo. They revised their layout sometime back and converted everything into units. I am currently on Unit 38 ("Describe chores, use indirect object pronouns").
Total Study Time (not including the audio editing):
1 hour and 15 minutes
SPANISH
Complete Latin American Spanish (CLAS), 3rd Edition. 2017.
As mentioned in my first log post, I've decided to work through a course book. This will not be the only thing I do with the language, yet I want to experiment with using a beginner's text and seeing how much I can get out of it in addition to whatever other methods I employ.
[15 minutes]
I read the front matter of the book: Introduction, How this book works, Learn to learn, and Latin American Spanish: some regional differences (pages vii through xv).
Reviewed the Table of Contents and pre-read the summaries for all 13 units.
Edited the audio files in Audacity for the Pronunciation Guide; Vowels (file 00.01/page xvi), Consonants (file 00.02/page xvii), and the Alphabet (file 00.03/page xx). I removed all English and tightened up the gaps between the spoken Spanish to 2 seconds. This was a bit time consuming but I like the end result of having L2 only audio files that correspond with the lessons in the text. I want to do the same for all of the audio files associated with this book, but I don't want to do that during my study time. I need to spend time just prepping the audio so that when I sit down to study a unit that's already done.
[15 minutes]
I listened to my edited files, repeating the Spanish out loud in the 2 second gaps. Not quite shadowing, but it moves along at a relatively fast pace. Quicker than the original file. Total time for all three files is only just over 2 minutes. I repeated this process seven times so that total time is around 15 minutes. These initial exercises assume no previous knowledge. I am doing them as a review.
[30 minutes]
Unit 1, Pages 1 - 6:
I read the above pages, including speaking the dialogs out loud as I came to them in the text.
At this point I paused for something to eat. I then decided I wanted to start prepping the audio to remove all English. This stalled out my study time with this text, but if I front-load this now it will pay off when I return to the text. Still working on that.
Duolingo
[15 minutes]
I spent 15 minutes with Duolingo. They revised their layout sometime back and converted everything into units. I am currently on Unit 38 ("Describe chores, use indirect object pronouns").
Total Study Time (not including the audio editing):
1 hour and 15 minutes
Last edited by Monk on Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
3 x
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Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
10 December 2022
SPANISH
Complete Latin American Spanish (2017).
It being Saturday, I had more time to work on the audio editing. I edited all of the files for Unit 1. This was a total of 13 files (there are 14, but the first is just a short copyright and intro with no Spanish so I didn't include it). I would like to get to the point where I have the files for at least the unit ahead of the one I'm on completely edited. That didn't happen today.
[30 minutes]
After my edits the total runtime of the Unit 1 files equals 7 minutes and 42 seconds. I shadowed all of these four times straight through.
This includes:
[45 minutes]
I returned to the text after shadowing. I read the entire unit (including the pages I read yesterday). A total of 15 pages. I did all of the exercises.
Earlier in the day, I also did the following:
Duolingo
[15 minutes]
Continued lessons in Unit 38
Berlitz Latin American Spanish Phrase Book & Dictionary (2019).
[15 minutes]
I read these sections, saying the phrases out loud:
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 45 minutes.
SPANISH
Complete Latin American Spanish (2017).
It being Saturday, I had more time to work on the audio editing. I edited all of the files for Unit 1. This was a total of 13 files (there are 14, but the first is just a short copyright and intro with no Spanish so I didn't include it). I would like to get to the point where I have the files for at least the unit ahead of the one I'm on completely edited. That didn't happen today.
[30 minutes]
After my edits the total runtime of the Unit 1 files equals 7 minutes and 42 seconds. I shadowed all of these four times straight through.
This includes:
- Pronunciation Guide; Vowels (file 00.01/page xvi), Consonants (file 00.02/page xvii), and the Alphabet (file 00.03/page xx).
- Vocabulary builder; Exchanging greetings and introducing yourself/Asking and giving personal information (file 01.01/page 3).
- Six short dialogues (files 01.02 through 01.07/pages 4 through 7).
- Numbers 0 through 50 (file 01.08/page 11).
- A speaking prompt that includes some of the previous vocabulary (file 01.09/page 13).
- Another short dialogue (file 01.10/page 13).
[45 minutes]
I returned to the text after shadowing. I read the entire unit (including the pages I read yesterday). A total of 15 pages. I did all of the exercises.
Earlier in the day, I also did the following:
Duolingo
[15 minutes]
Continued lessons in Unit 38
Berlitz Latin American Spanish Phrase Book & Dictionary (2019).
[15 minutes]
I read these sections, saying the phrases out loud:
- Quick Reference - Essential (inside cover).
- Pronunciation - Consonants/Vowels (pp. 7-9).
- Survival - Arrival and Departure (p. 13).
- Eating Out - How to Order (pp. 62-63).
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 45 minutes.
Last edited by Monk on Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
3 x
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Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
OLD TECH/NEW TECH
I will preface this by saying I am far from being a neo-Luddite or technophobe. In fact, for my age group (I'm a Gen Xer, born in 1971) I was an early adopter of the personal computer. I remember having "computer literacy" classes in grade school. The first time my fingers ever touched a keyboard (other than a typewriter) was around 1982 when an Apple II showed up in our classroom. I was hooked (no pun intended). I was fortunate enough that my father bought me my own computer not long after that. It was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (CoCo 2) that ran Extended Color BASIC. I even had a dot matrix printer and an "acoustic coupler," which was - more or less - an early type of phone modem. It looked like this:
This was before the rise of the World Wide Web (which didn't come until Tim Berners-Lee published the first publicly accessible website in 1991), but there was already an Internet. The two terms are often conflated now, but they are not the same thing. I'll never forget the first time I connected with my friend across town. I typed some text on a screen. He replied back. It went on like that. My first chat. I realized then that the fun I was having with my computer, by myself, alone in my room, could now be expanded out to communicating with other hobbyists. Not long after those early chat experiences, my friend and I discovered Bulletin Board Systems (BBSes). These were basically the precursors to message boards like this one.
My enjoyment and use of computers has stayed with me. In fact, it also pays the bills. I work for a software company.
Computers, computerized devices, and the "always connected" Web are now, of course, ubiquitous. This is not news to anyone. I am typing this very message on a computer to then post it to an online message board, where others might read it using some type of computerized device (laptop/desktop/smartphone/tablet). So what's the point of my going on about my history with computers and technology? And why am I posting this on my language log?
Here's the thing. I most definitely make use of digital tools and resources as part of my language learning process, but not exclusively. For example, I own many physical books related to language learning; textbooks for the specific languages I'm studying (and some I'm not yet studying, but want to one day), reading materials in my target languages, several grammars, dictionaries, workbooks, etc. These resources might not have the whiz-bang of gamified language apps, or lack some of the functionality that database-backed software systems make available, but they do have some of their own benefits. I can hold them in my hand, flip through the pages, mark them up with my own marginalia, take a break from screen time to rest these aging eyes (!), not be so distracted to go down the rabbit hole of link after link after link after...wait, where was I again? I started out looking up a grammar point about a verb conjugation and now I'm reading a 5000 word essay about a completely unrelated topic, I have 15 open tabs in my browser, and my Facebook notifications are vying for my attention. Additionally, because these books are physical artifacts, when I'm gone my son will inherit them, and perhaps he might pass them to my grandson as well (not just language books. While I do have an e-reader that I use for e-books, I also have a substantial collection of physical books on an assortment of nonfiction topics and interests as well as literary and genre fiction).
Which brings me around to pen and paper. I keep all sorts of notes on my laptop. I even have a tendency to hyper-organize my folders to make it easier to find things. And I know there are plenty of useful digital tools to help with this type of thing. That's all well and good. There are certainly benefits to using digital tools as part of my study habits. For example, I can type much faster than I can handwrite something. I have no plans for ceasing to use digital tools. I think that would be foolish. Yet, I am also balancing that out with things like physical books and keeping a (handwritten/physical) language notebook. I am currently planning out a notebook for Spanish. This is what I have in mind so far:
Tips for organizing a language notebook.
Sections:
Vocabulary
As an aside, I am particularly interested in scientific studies regarding encoding information to long-term memory and any potential pros and cons of typing versus handwriting. I've started to poke around the Internet for documented research. Unsurprisingly, I've found conflicting information about it. I plan on digging deeper when I have more time to do so.
I will preface this by saying I am far from being a neo-Luddite or technophobe. In fact, for my age group (I'm a Gen Xer, born in 1971) I was an early adopter of the personal computer. I remember having "computer literacy" classes in grade school. The first time my fingers ever touched a keyboard (other than a typewriter) was around 1982 when an Apple II showed up in our classroom. I was hooked (no pun intended). I was fortunate enough that my father bought me my own computer not long after that. It was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (CoCo 2) that ran Extended Color BASIC. I even had a dot matrix printer and an "acoustic coupler," which was - more or less - an early type of phone modem. It looked like this:
This was before the rise of the World Wide Web (which didn't come until Tim Berners-Lee published the first publicly accessible website in 1991), but there was already an Internet. The two terms are often conflated now, but they are not the same thing. I'll never forget the first time I connected with my friend across town. I typed some text on a screen. He replied back. It went on like that. My first chat. I realized then that the fun I was having with my computer, by myself, alone in my room, could now be expanded out to communicating with other hobbyists. Not long after those early chat experiences, my friend and I discovered Bulletin Board Systems (BBSes). These were basically the precursors to message boards like this one.
My enjoyment and use of computers has stayed with me. In fact, it also pays the bills. I work for a software company.
Computers, computerized devices, and the "always connected" Web are now, of course, ubiquitous. This is not news to anyone. I am typing this very message on a computer to then post it to an online message board, where others might read it using some type of computerized device (laptop/desktop/smartphone/tablet). So what's the point of my going on about my history with computers and technology? And why am I posting this on my language log?
Here's the thing. I most definitely make use of digital tools and resources as part of my language learning process, but not exclusively. For example, I own many physical books related to language learning; textbooks for the specific languages I'm studying (and some I'm not yet studying, but want to one day), reading materials in my target languages, several grammars, dictionaries, workbooks, etc. These resources might not have the whiz-bang of gamified language apps, or lack some of the functionality that database-backed software systems make available, but they do have some of their own benefits. I can hold them in my hand, flip through the pages, mark them up with my own marginalia, take a break from screen time to rest these aging eyes (!), not be so distracted to go down the rabbit hole of link after link after link after...wait, where was I again? I started out looking up a grammar point about a verb conjugation and now I'm reading a 5000 word essay about a completely unrelated topic, I have 15 open tabs in my browser, and my Facebook notifications are vying for my attention. Additionally, because these books are physical artifacts, when I'm gone my son will inherit them, and perhaps he might pass them to my grandson as well (not just language books. While I do have an e-reader that I use for e-books, I also have a substantial collection of physical books on an assortment of nonfiction topics and interests as well as literary and genre fiction).
Which brings me around to pen and paper. I keep all sorts of notes on my laptop. I even have a tendency to hyper-organize my folders to make it easier to find things. And I know there are plenty of useful digital tools to help with this type of thing. That's all well and good. There are certainly benefits to using digital tools as part of my study habits. For example, I can type much faster than I can handwrite something. I have no plans for ceasing to use digital tools. I think that would be foolish. Yet, I am also balancing that out with things like physical books and keeping a (handwritten/physical) language notebook. I am currently planning out a notebook for Spanish. This is what I have in mind so far:
Tips for organizing a language notebook.
Sections:
Vocabulary
- Grouped topically
- Single words
- Phrases
- Idiomatic expressions
- Grammar points/tips with examples
- Verb conjugations
- Tenses
- Dictation exercises
- Sample dialogues
- Producing my own sentences/paragraphs
- Translation
As an aside, I am particularly interested in scientific studies regarding encoding information to long-term memory and any potential pros and cons of typing versus handwriting. I've started to poke around the Internet for documented research. Unsurprisingly, I've found conflicting information about it. I plan on digging deeper when I have more time to do so.
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Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
11 December 2022
SPANISH
I'm working on attaining automaticity with numbers. I thought I knew los números fairly well, but during one of my italki sessions, when I was trying to explain what year I moved to the city I currently live in, I realized I didn't know how to properly say the year (1987). I have looked at numbers before. But it became apparent that I haven't fully internalized all of the patterns, nor even memorized some of the common numbers (e.g. I still sometimes stumble on 13, 14, 15, and numbers above 100).
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
[1 hour and 15 minutes]
I pulled out the textbook we were using for the two semesters I took Spanish language classes at a local center back in 2018. It splits the numbers up across several sections; 1 through 30, 30 through 100, and 100 through 1,000,000. Today I captured all of this in my notebook, including notes about patterns such as how numbers ending in cien have to agree in gender with the nouns they are modifying (doscientos libros/doscientas sillas), how "y" never occurs after the number ciento (cien, ciento uno, ciento dos...), and a few other points the textbook made clear. In the Vocabulary section of my (new) notebook, I wrote the numbers from 1 to 1,000,000 (not literally all of them, obviously, but the appropriate amount to document how the patterns change. I then drilled these several times, reading aloud as I repeated the numbers, and paying special attention to areas I am weaker on.
By the way, 1987 is expressed as mil novecientos ochenta y siete. I also practiced writing - and then saying aloud - other years that are meaningful to me. My birth year, my son's birth year, the current year, and so forth.
Nothing done in Complete Latin American Spanish today. The above replaced that.
Duolingo
[15 minutes]
Continuing lessons in Unit 38
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 30 minutes
SPANISH
I'm working on attaining automaticity with numbers. I thought I knew los números fairly well, but during one of my italki sessions, when I was trying to explain what year I moved to the city I currently live in, I realized I didn't know how to properly say the year (1987). I have looked at numbers before. But it became apparent that I haven't fully internalized all of the patterns, nor even memorized some of the common numbers (e.g. I still sometimes stumble on 13, 14, 15, and numbers above 100).
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
[1 hour and 15 minutes]
I pulled out the textbook we were using for the two semesters I took Spanish language classes at a local center back in 2018. It splits the numbers up across several sections; 1 through 30, 30 through 100, and 100 through 1,000,000. Today I captured all of this in my notebook, including notes about patterns such as how numbers ending in cien have to agree in gender with the nouns they are modifying (doscientos libros/doscientas sillas), how "y" never occurs after the number ciento (cien, ciento uno, ciento dos...), and a few other points the textbook made clear. In the Vocabulary section of my (new) notebook, I wrote the numbers from 1 to 1,000,000 (not literally all of them, obviously, but the appropriate amount to document how the patterns change. I then drilled these several times, reading aloud as I repeated the numbers, and paying special attention to areas I am weaker on.
By the way, 1987 is expressed as mil novecientos ochenta y siete. I also practiced writing - and then saying aloud - other years that are meaningful to me. My birth year, my son's birth year, the current year, and so forth.
Nothing done in Complete Latin American Spanish today. The above replaced that.
Duolingo
[15 minutes]
Continuing lessons in Unit 38
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 30 minutes
5 x
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luke
- Brown Belt
- Posts: 1243
- Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
- Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
- x 3632
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
Monk wrote:I'm working on attaining automaticity with numbers.
What I do from time to time is read numbers from license plates and signs as I drive around. There's a lot of ways to be flexible here. One is to read and number like 1987 as one big number, two two-digit numbers, 4 single digit numbers, backwards, etc.
I also try to pay attention when I hear phone numbers on the radio. These always seem to be said very fast and being able to understand them is quite practical.
For me, the current challenge is numbers that include the digit 6. My mind slows down to make a distinction with numbers that contain 7.
I'm enjoying your log and journey.
What method are you using?
3 x
: Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5500 pages - Reading
: FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: Camino a Macondo
: 5500 pages - Reading
: FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: Camino a Macondo
-
Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
Hi Luke,
Thank you for commenting.
These are great recommendations. I appreciate you sharing them with me.
I like the idea of using numbers found "in the wild" (like from license plates, signs, and hearing telephone numbers on the radio - Spanish or English) as an opportunity to practice. I can see how that would be useful in the goal towards automaticity because these would be completely unscripted scenarios compared to something like I'm doing right now, which is basically a brute-force memorization approach.
I'm currently doing drills, for the most part. Reading the numbers in order as I have them written in my notebook, and at the end, thinking of numbers that are meaningful to me and attempting to formulate them (spoken out loud) in Spanish without reference to my notes. I will probably continue doing this until I am very familiar with the numbers, but will also start incorporating some of the ideas you mention as well. It makes logical sense to me, and I can see how it would be beneficial. See a number, say a number. If I stumble with one, look it up when I am back home (or if I have time while I'm still out. I don't do phones in the car), see why I made a mistake and/or didn't know it, and practice saying that number as well as other numbers that fit the same pattern. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I see you are studying Spanish as well. I'll take a look at your log. It's always great to see what others are doing with their languages.
Thank you for commenting.
luke wrote:What I do from time to time is read numbers from license plates and signs as I drive around. There's a lot of ways to be flexible here. One is to read and number like 1987 as one big number, two two-digit numbers, 4 single digit numbers, backwards, etc.
I also try to pay attention when I hear phone numbers on the radio. These always seem to be said very fast and being able to understand them is quite practical.
These are great recommendations. I appreciate you sharing them with me.
I like the idea of using numbers found "in the wild" (like from license plates, signs, and hearing telephone numbers on the radio - Spanish or English) as an opportunity to practice. I can see how that would be useful in the goal towards automaticity because these would be completely unscripted scenarios compared to something like I'm doing right now, which is basically a brute-force memorization approach.
I'm currently doing drills, for the most part. Reading the numbers in order as I have them written in my notebook, and at the end, thinking of numbers that are meaningful to me and attempting to formulate them (spoken out loud) in Spanish without reference to my notes. I will probably continue doing this until I am very familiar with the numbers, but will also start incorporating some of the ideas you mention as well. It makes logical sense to me, and I can see how it would be beneficial. See a number, say a number. If I stumble with one, look it up when I am back home (or if I have time while I'm still out. I don't do phones in the car), see why I made a mistake and/or didn't know it, and practice saying that number as well as other numbers that fit the same pattern. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I see you are studying Spanish as well. I'll take a look at your log. It's always great to see what others are doing with their languages.
4 x
-
Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
12 December 2022
SPANISH
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
[55 minutes]
Los números. Drilling the numbers. I am continuing to memorize the numbers.
Today I focused on numbers 1 through 30 (following how the Viajes textbook breaks this down). I read page 12 of Viajes, which includes a graph of the numbers 1 - 30, along with remarks about special cases, such as:
1) "uno" becomes "un" (dropping the "o") when preceding a singular masculine noun.
un hombre / one man, un chico / one boy
Hay un profesor en la clase. / There is one professor in the class.
2) "uno" becomes "una" when preceding a singular feminine noun.
una doctora / one doctor, una chica / one girl
Hay una cafetería buena en esta universidad. / There is one good cafeteria in this university.
3) "veintiuno" changes to "veintiún" when preceding a plural masculine.
Hay veintiún estudiantes. / There are twenty-one students.
I then read out loud the numbers 1 through 30 in sequential order while looking at the book. I did this three times.
I then did a combined writing/speaking exercise. In a notebook I wrote the numbers from 1 to 30 (from memory), paying special attention to the proper placement of accent marks (where they exist) when I spelled out the numbers. As I was writing the name of each number I also sounded it out (e.g. uno, dos, tres...all the way to treinta). I repeated this five times in total, continuously, one after the other. (i.e. writing the names of the numbers while vocalizing them).
Lastly, I recited the numbers out loud from memory (uno through treinta, sequentially). I did this five times, running a stopwatch and noting the time it took me to recite each set. I was happy to see that the time it took to recite decreased with each subsequent set. The times for the five sets were 37 seconds, 35 seconds, 30 seconds, 28 seconds, and 25 seconds.
I plan on continuing tomorrow with another batch of numbers.
Duolingo
[20 minutes]
Continuing lessons in Unit 38, which features sentences using indirect object pronouns. For example:
Yo les digo las respuestas. / I tell them the answers.
Tú les das muchas cosas. / You give them many things.
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 15 minutes
SPANISH
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
[55 minutes]
Los números. Drilling the numbers. I am continuing to memorize the numbers.
Today I focused on numbers 1 through 30 (following how the Viajes textbook breaks this down). I read page 12 of Viajes, which includes a graph of the numbers 1 - 30, along with remarks about special cases, such as:
1) "uno" becomes "un" (dropping the "o") when preceding a singular masculine noun.
un hombre / one man, un chico / one boy
Hay un profesor en la clase. / There is one professor in the class.
2) "uno" becomes "una" when preceding a singular feminine noun.
una doctora / one doctor, una chica / one girl
Hay una cafetería buena en esta universidad. / There is one good cafeteria in this university.
3) "veintiuno" changes to "veintiún" when preceding a plural masculine.
Hay veintiún estudiantes. / There are twenty-one students.
I then read out loud the numbers 1 through 30 in sequential order while looking at the book. I did this three times.
I then did a combined writing/speaking exercise. In a notebook I wrote the numbers from 1 to 30 (from memory), paying special attention to the proper placement of accent marks (where they exist) when I spelled out the numbers. As I was writing the name of each number I also sounded it out (e.g. uno, dos, tres...all the way to treinta). I repeated this five times in total, continuously, one after the other. (i.e. writing the names of the numbers while vocalizing them).
Lastly, I recited the numbers out loud from memory (uno through treinta, sequentially). I did this five times, running a stopwatch and noting the time it took me to recite each set. I was happy to see that the time it took to recite decreased with each subsequent set. The times for the five sets were 37 seconds, 35 seconds, 30 seconds, 28 seconds, and 25 seconds.
I plan on continuing tomorrow with another batch of numbers.
Duolingo
[20 minutes]
Continuing lessons in Unit 38, which features sentences using indirect object pronouns. For example:
Yo les digo las respuestas. / I tell them the answers.
Tú les das muchas cosas. / You give them many things.
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 15 minutes
5 x
-
Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
13 December 2022
SPANISH
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
Los números. I am continuing to memorize the numbers. Today's session was for numbers 30 through 100.
[20 minutes]
In Viajes (p. 68) there is a graph of numbers 30 through 100. Similar to yesterday's practice, I read aloud from the text, reciting the numbers multiple times, and then as I started to know them, I continued to recite but without looking at the text. I began by reciting slowly and intentionally, to make sure I was enunciating clearly and correctly. As I became more familiar with the names of this number set, I then increased the speed of my recitation. I recited the numbers in sequential order, but I changed it up a bit based on what integers I included. I always included the tens (e.g. 30, 40, 50...), but sometimes I would include some of the ones (31, 32, 39, 40, 41, 49, 50, 59...)
[25 minutes]
I then did a combined writing/speaking exercise. For the first round of this my pattern was as follows: "treinta, treinta y uno, treinta y nueve, cuarenta, cuarenta y uno, cuarenta y nueve...", continuing like this for 30 through 100, followed by several rounds of just the tens (treinta, cuarenta, cincuenta...). I spoke the numbers out loud as I was writing them.
I then switched to one round of writing out every single number from 30 to 100 (treinta, treinta y uno, treinta y dos, treinta y tres, treinta y cuatro...), always speaking the numbers out loud as I was writing them.
[10 minutes]
Followed by another several rounds of writing/speaking just the tens (treinta, cuarenta, cincuenta...).
[5 minutes]
I closed out the session by reciting the tens from memory as fast as I could with no reference to my notes or the text, and just repeating them over and over for 5 minutes (treinta, cuarenta, cincuenta...).
Duolingo
[20 minutes]
Earlier in the day (during my lunch break from work) I did 20 minutes of lessons in Unit 38 of Duolingo.
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 20 minutes
SPANISH
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
Los números. I am continuing to memorize the numbers. Today's session was for numbers 30 through 100.
[20 minutes]
In Viajes (p. 68) there is a graph of numbers 30 through 100. Similar to yesterday's practice, I read aloud from the text, reciting the numbers multiple times, and then as I started to know them, I continued to recite but without looking at the text. I began by reciting slowly and intentionally, to make sure I was enunciating clearly and correctly. As I became more familiar with the names of this number set, I then increased the speed of my recitation. I recited the numbers in sequential order, but I changed it up a bit based on what integers I included. I always included the tens (e.g. 30, 40, 50...), but sometimes I would include some of the ones (31, 32, 39, 40, 41, 49, 50, 59...)
[25 minutes]
I then did a combined writing/speaking exercise. For the first round of this my pattern was as follows: "treinta, treinta y uno, treinta y nueve, cuarenta, cuarenta y uno, cuarenta y nueve...", continuing like this for 30 through 100, followed by several rounds of just the tens (treinta, cuarenta, cincuenta...). I spoke the numbers out loud as I was writing them.
I then switched to one round of writing out every single number from 30 to 100 (treinta, treinta y uno, treinta y dos, treinta y tres, treinta y cuatro...), always speaking the numbers out loud as I was writing them.
[10 minutes]
Followed by another several rounds of writing/speaking just the tens (treinta, cuarenta, cincuenta...).
[5 minutes]
I closed out the session by reciting the tens from memory as fast as I could with no reference to my notes or the text, and just repeating them over and over for 5 minutes (treinta, cuarenta, cincuenta...).
Duolingo
[20 minutes]
Earlier in the day (during my lunch break from work) I did 20 minutes of lessons in Unit 38 of Duolingo.
Total Study Time:
1 hour and 20 minutes
6 x
-
Monk
- White Belt
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:06 pm
- Location: USA
- Languages: English (N), Spanish (~A1), Hebrew (beginner).
- Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18728
- x 141
Re: Monk's log (Spanish/Hebrew)
14 December 2022
SPANISH
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
Los números. Drilling the numbers. I am continuing to memorize the numbers. For today's session I practiced with numbers 100 through 1000.
[20 minutes]
In Viajes (p. 124) there is a list of numbers (by the hundreds) from 100 through 1000 (they also include 1,000,000). I recited the names of the numbers several times while reading from the text (cien, doscientos, trescientos, cuatrocientos, quinientos...). I continued doing this until I started to memorize this set of numbers, at which put I set aside the text and continued to recite the numbers in sequential order completely from memory.
I'd like to do one more session dedicated to numbers where I consolidate the past few sessions into one. Basically a review of 1 through 1000, along with any of the associated rules that apply. At that point I feel like I'll be able to move away from focused study just on the numbers and can practice them randomly when I encounter them or just when I think of it now and again.
I didn't do any writing practice tonight. I had some other obligations pull me away (an after-hours work emergency). I will incorporate some more writing of the numbers tomorrow when I do the full review of 1 through 1000.
Duolingo
[20 minutes]
I continued lessons in Unit 38. Almost near then end of this Unit, but not quite.
Total Study Time:
40 minutes
SPANISH
Viajes - Introducción al español (2011)
Los números. Drilling the numbers. I am continuing to memorize the numbers. For today's session I practiced with numbers 100 through 1000.
[20 minutes]
In Viajes (p. 124) there is a list of numbers (by the hundreds) from 100 through 1000 (they also include 1,000,000). I recited the names of the numbers several times while reading from the text (cien, doscientos, trescientos, cuatrocientos, quinientos...). I continued doing this until I started to memorize this set of numbers, at which put I set aside the text and continued to recite the numbers in sequential order completely from memory.
I'd like to do one more session dedicated to numbers where I consolidate the past few sessions into one. Basically a review of 1 through 1000, along with any of the associated rules that apply. At that point I feel like I'll be able to move away from focused study just on the numbers and can practice them randomly when I encounter them or just when I think of it now and again.
I didn't do any writing practice tonight. I had some other obligations pull me away (an after-hours work emergency). I will incorporate some more writing of the numbers tomorrow when I do the full review of 1 through 1000.
Duolingo
[20 minutes]
I continued lessons in Unit 38. Almost near then end of this Unit, but not quite.
Total Study Time:
40 minutes
5 x
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