Finnish what I started

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Sprachensammlerin
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Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:15 pm

I'm terrible at tracking and documenting my language-learning activities, so hopefully, this log will help a bit.

My native language is German and I speak English fluently. I speak at an intermediate level Japanese, Chinese, French, and Spanish.

Currently, I'm focusing on Finnish, so that's what I'll mainly write about in this log. I'm still a beginner in Finnish and find it so far the hardest language, I've dealt with.

My starting point for this log regarding Finnish:
Duolingo (new path): I'm at the beginning of unit 7. Units 1-5 are legendary, but unit 6 is not yet.
Pimsleur: I've listened to the first five lessons (of 30).
Teach yourself Complete Finnish Beginner to Intermediate: I did lesson 1 (of 18; lessons 1 to 4 are beginner, 5 to 10 advanced beginner)
I'm working on this text: https://lingua.com/finnish/reading/minun-paeivaeni/. Currently, I can only go sentence by sentence as there are so many different cases in Finnish and I don't understand much. Once I have a better understanding of Finnish grammar and a good base vocabulary, I will also start extensive reading.
I also use a bit of Memrise (currently at 55% of the "Hacking Finnish" course) and Drops to widen my vocab but that's not my main focus at the moment.
I'm also listening to Finnishpod 101 and a couple of other podcasts. I'm writing daily a couple of sentences in the FB group "Language writing fun" and speaking a couple of sentences in the "30 Days Speaking Challenge". By writing and speaking I practice what I learned from the various resources.

My goal for this week (until 11th of December 2022):
- finish the first 8 lessons on Pimsleur
- finish at least lesson 2 in Teach yourself Finnish
- finish at least unit 7 in Duolingo
Daily activities:
- analyze at least one sentence per day from "Minun Päiväni"
- write every day at least 3 sentences in Language Writing Fun
- speak every day at least 3 sentences in 30 Days Speaking Challenge
- learn at least 5 minutes per day vocabulary with Drops
Other activities are optional. I'm working full-time and have a big family but I think my plan is doable.

This is a text I wrote today based on the first sentences in "Minun Päiväni" and what I learned via the other resources. It's a text from the perspective of a young German boy (so not a self-introduction of myself):
Minun nimeni on Jonas. Minä olen saksalainen. Puhun saksaa ja englantia oikein hyvin. Puhun vahan ranskaa ja espanjaa. En puhu suomea. Olen viisitoista vuotias. Käyn lukion ensimmäistä vuotta Berlinissa, mutta olen kotoisin Münchenista.
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Sprachensammlerin
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Posts: 28
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:07 am

In order not to get caught up with apps and then not do my other language learning activities, I decided to have a limit on what I'm allowed to do with an app. So, the maximum on Drops is two rounds of five minutes each, and on Duolingo it's ten lessons. When I reach this limit, I'm not allowed to touch the apps until I did my other activities (write, speak, read, listen to Pimsleur, work with Teach yourself).

Reading of the text ""Minun Päiväni"" really only does sentence by sentence. Today's sentence is: "Maanantaista torstaihin herään viisitoista yli seitsemän." ("From Monday to Thursday I wake up at fifteen past seven.") So, this is about weekdays and time of the day, both topics I haven't covered yet. The weekdays aren't very difficult: Maanantai (Monday), tiistai (Tuesday), torstai (Thursday) and sunnuntai (Sunday) are a bit similar to English. Keskiviikko (Wednesday) is interestingly the same as the German Mittwoch (literally "mid-week") as keski means mid- and viikko means week. Perjantai ("Friday") has the same root as the English Friday and the German Freitag: Frījā dag (Day of the Frigg). But as Finnish historically didn't have an f, it turned to p. Just lauantai (Saturday) seems a bit odd at first as it means "bathing day" but this is common in Scandinavian and Northern European languages I already knew that from Danish lørdag.

I found this great resource that teaches the weekdays in Finnish with example sentences in Standard Finnish (yleiskieli) and spoken Finnish (puhekieli): https://finkingcap.com/blog/finnish-beg ... n-finnish/.
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Sprachensammlerin
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Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:07 am
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Japanese (B2), Chinese (B2), French (B1), Spanish (B1)
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:20 pm

Suomen itsenäisyyspäivää vietetään 6. joulukuuta. Tännän on suomen itsenäisyyspäivää! Hyvä itsenäisyyspäivää! Katsoitteko linnanjuhlia? Minä en katsonut linnanjuhlia.
Tänään on myös juhla Saksassa: Pyhä Nikolaus.

Today is Finnish Independence Day. This is a great resource to learn about it and some useful phrases:
https://uusikielemme.fi/finnish-culture/finnish-celebrations/itsenaisyyspaiva-6-12-finnish-independence-day. To get into the right mood, I'm listening to Finlandia by Jean Sibelius: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandia.

I'm making good progress with my activities. I'm already done with lesson 8 of the Pimsleur course and will just review lessons 1 to 8 for the rest of the week. From tomorrow on I'll focus more on Teach Yourself Finnish as I haven't yet worked with it this week. I'm using a little bit of Finnish on a daily basis with fellow Finnish learners by writing short comments or saying a couple of sentences in Finnish during some conversations.
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Sprachensammlerin
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:13 pm

Tännän on keskiviiko. Keskiviikoisin herään kuudelta.

I still need to work on the times of the day, so I'm leaving this link here: https://uusikielemme.fi/finnish-vocabulary/vocabulary-lists/telling-the-time-in-finnish-mita-kello-on. My plan is to be able to talk about the time and date by the end of this week. I already know the days of the week, have some faint idea about the times of the day and now need to learn the months.

Today I found this great resource: https://www.lingohut.com/en/l94/learn-finnish. I knew that Lingohut existed but have never really worked with it. I like that I can choose freely the topic I want to work on (so tomorrow I'll do the months). It does not only teach words but also phrases as chunks. It has little games to test your knowledge. It's a nice supplement for the other resources I use. I tried out some lessons and a lot was a revision of words I already knew, but I learned these very practical phrases with it:
Anteeksi, en kullut sinua. Sorry, I did not hear you.
Missä asut? Where do you live?
Mistä olet kotoisin? Where are you from?
Miten sanotaan? How do you say?
Toista, ole hyvä. Repeat, please.
Sana sanalta. Word for word
Mitä sanoit? What did you say?
Puhu hitaasti. Speak slowly.
Mitä se tarkoitta? What does it mean?
6 x
Pimsleur Finnish: 25/30 chapters
Teach Yourself Complete Finnish: 2/30 chapters
Drops Finnish: 1252/3000 words (milestone 20/25)
Lingohut Finnish: 15/125 lessons

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tiia
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Location: Finland
Languages: German (N), English (?), Finnish (C1), Spanish (B2??), Swedish (B2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=2374
x 1997

Re: Finnish what I started

Postby tiia » Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:32 pm

Welcome to the Forum!

How long have you been studying Finnish already? I'm asking, because I'm not too familiar with the sources you use.

I took a look at the "Minun päiväni" -text. If I calculated correctly yesterdays sentence was "Herättyäni syön aamupalaa, puen päälleni ja menen kouluun." Did you get along with that one?

I'm just asking because "herättyäni" is a form I would never expect in a beginners text. [Here a link that explains what form it is in case anyone is wondering.] There are also other grammatical features in the text that should make it quite challenging for a beginner. I mean the words are basic, the topic is basic, but still...
So it's probably good you're only doing one sentence per day. :)
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Corrections for entries written in Finnish, Spanish or Swedish are welcome.
Project 30+X: 25 / 30

Sprachensammlerin
White Belt
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:07 am
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Japanese (B2), Chinese (B2), French (B1), Spanish (B1)
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:55 pm

Hi Tia,

I just started in October and for two months I was only using Duolingo which brought me nowhere. I didn't entirely focus on Finnish, so within these two months I actually only finished 6 units of 23 in the Duolingo course. So I decided to up my game. Yeah, you calculated correctly, but I skipped one day on the sentence (because each sentence has so much new information for me), so "Herättyäni syön aamupalaa, puen päälleni ja menen kouluun." is my sentence for today. In that sentence I only knew "syön", "aamupalaa", "ja" and "menen". Thanks for the link. I couldn't find the construction for "herättyäni". That's definitely not A1 content. But that doesn't matter. I don't expect to fully understand and be able to use all constructions. I just focus on the basic stuff so "syön aamupalaa" and "menen kouluun" is my major take away from that sentence. Yes, the topic is so simple, yet it is so hard to read...
4 x
Pimsleur Finnish: 25/30 chapters
Teach Yourself Complete Finnish: 2/30 chapters
Drops Finnish: 1252/3000 words (milestone 20/25)
Lingohut Finnish: 15/125 lessons

Sprachensammlerin
White Belt
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:07 am
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Japanese (B2), Chinese (B2), French (B1), Spanish (B1)
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:42 pm

Finnish is starting to make sense and doesn't seem so scary anymore. Actually, there are many things about Finnish that are easy, at least from the point of view of a native German with some language-learning experience.

1. Spelling and pronunciation
Words are written exactly the way they are pronounced. No crazy spellings like in English (tough, though, through, thorough...), no garbling guttural sounds like Danish, no tones like Chinese.

2. Counting
The Finnish numerals are maybe one of the easiest I have ever learned. Very straightforward. no weird numbers like eleven and twelve (in Finnish they are like one-teen, two-teen), no unlogic order (in German 25 is read 5-20), no need for calculation like 99 in French (= 4x20+19), in Finnish 99 is 9-10-9, no extra word for 10,000 like in Chinese.

3. Conjugation
There are only a few irregular verbs in Finnish, so once you figure the major conjugations out, you can conjugate most of the new verbs.

Also, some things that appear scary in the beginning, aren't too bad after all. At first, I was intimidated by the sheer number of cases and wondered if I ever could memorize when to use inessive, adessive, ablative, and so on. Actually, many cases are like prepositions in German with the difference that they are used as suffixes. It's easiest to think of the case endings as something similar to the Japanese particles
school: koulu, 学校 (gakkou)
at School: koulussa, 学校で (gakkou de)
from school: koulusta, 学校から (gakkou kara)
to school: kouluun, 学校へ(gakkou e)

When looking for Japanese explanations of Finnish grammar, I found this channel by a Japanese-Finnish guy: https://www.youtube.com/@moisuomi9136.

My plan is now to get to a stable A1 level by the end of this month. When looking at this page, I'd rate myself at A1.2 currently: https://uusikielemme.fi/language-levels/beginner-finnish-topics-level-a1-a1-1-to-a1-3. Reaching A1.3 within a couple of weeks should be feasible.
5 x
Pimsleur Finnish: 25/30 chapters
Teach Yourself Complete Finnish: 2/30 chapters
Drops Finnish: 1252/3000 words (milestone 20/25)
Lingohut Finnish: 15/125 lessons

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tiia
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Posts: 735
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Location: Finland
Languages: German (N), English (?), Finnish (C1), Spanish (B2??), Swedish (B2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=2374
x 1997

Re: Finnish what I started

Postby tiia » Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:11 pm

Sprachensammlerin wrote:Hi Tia,

I just started in October and for two months I was only using Duolingo which brought me nowhere. I didn't entirely focus on Finnish, so within these two months I actually only finished 6 units of 23 in the Duolingo course. So I decided to up my game. Yeah, you calculated correctly, but I skipped one day on the sentence (because each sentence has so much new information for me), so "Herättyäni syön aamupalaa, puen päälleni ja menen kouluun." is my sentence for today. In that sentence I only knew "syön", "aamupalaa", "ja" and "menen". Thanks for the link. I couldn't find the construction for "herättyäni". That's definitely not A1 content. But that doesn't matter. I don't expect to fully understand and be able to use all constructions. I just focus on the basic stuff so "syön aamupalaa" and "menen kouluun" is my major take away from that sentence. Yes, the topic is so simple, yet it is so hard to read...

Just a short explanation: Herättyäni, from herätä = to wake up, -> participle = herätty -> herättyäni, the +ni stands for "I". Herättyäni means "After I woke up".
This Construction is a so called lauseenvastike. Our teacher back then translated that to "Satzäquivalent", which is basically a short subordinate clause squeezed into a single word (verb). It's something that would be good to understand at the late B1 or B2 level, I'd say. But I'd put it even more into the C-level range, especially the active use of it. It's usually one of the very last word forms one will learn and it's almost exclusively used in written Finnish.
One can learn to speak Finnish and not use these forms at all without having any problems.

"Puen päälläni" could be translated as "I dress myself". Puen comes from the verb pukea.

The thing is, that text is not easy to read. I mean I don't have any problems with it, but I see constructions, that are definitely not easy, because of the sentence structure and used grammar. So you're probably doing alright.
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Project 30+X: 25 / 30

Sprachensammlerin
White Belt
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:07 am
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Japanese (B2), Chinese (B2), French (B1), Spanish (B1)
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:34 pm

@tiia
Thanks for the explanation. I can keep it at the back of my mind, so next time I stumble on this construction I have an idea what it is about. I won't try to actively use it though for the time being. At least the following sentence was finally a sentence I could understand without problems: "Koulupäiväni päättyy kello kolmelta ja iltapäivällä syön kotona.". I only didn't know the verb "päättyä" but I could guess it from context. My euphoria about understanding a sentence without having to look something up didn't last long though: "Rakastan ruoanlaittoa, mutta välillä olen väsynyt, enkä jaksa tehdä ruokaa." Well, I'll get there eventually...
1 x
Pimsleur Finnish: 25/30 chapters
Teach Yourself Complete Finnish: 2/30 chapters
Drops Finnish: 1252/3000 words (milestone 20/25)
Lingohut Finnish: 15/125 lessons

Sprachensammlerin
White Belt
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:07 am
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Japanese (B2), Chinese (B2), French (B1), Spanish (B1)
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Re: Finnish what I started

Postby Sprachensammlerin » Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:45 pm

Tännän on perjantai.

Today I went to a gym and listened to Finnish pop music while working out and this evening I worked a bit with Teach yourself Finnish and wrote this little dialogue.
Aino: Kuka sinä olet?
Mary: Minun nimeni on Mary.
Aino: Oletko amerikkalainen?
Mary: Ei, en ole amerikkalainen. Olen kanadalainen.
Aino: Puhutko englantia vai ranskaa?
Mary: Puhun englantia. Puhun myös ranskaa, mutta en oikein hyvin.
Aino: Mistä kaupungista?
Mary: Olen Torontosta, mutta asun nyt Vancouverissa. Entä sinä? Mistä sinä olet?
Aino: Olen Suomesta. Olen Tampereelta.
Mary: Missä sinä asut? Asutko Tampereella?
Aino: Kyllä, asun Tampereella. Missä sinä olet töissä?
Mary: Olen töissä yliopistossa. Olen opettaja.
Aino: Entä miehesi?
Mary: Mieheni on insinööri.

Edit: I noticed several typos and mistakes in my original post and did the following corrections:
englatia -> englantia
Olen suomeasta -> Olen Suomesta
Olen Tamperesta -> Olen Tampereelta
Asun Tamperessa -> Asun Tampereella
töissa -> töissä
That's for not reading the rules properly. "in a place" is normally expressed with the ending "-ssa/-ssä" and "from a place" with "-sta/-stä" but in the case of Tampere (and Vantaa, Imatra and Rovaniemi), "in" is expressed with "-lla/-llä" and "from" with "-lta/-ltä". Of course, just when I thought I understood the rule, I happen to use a word that is the exception...

Also, I learned the difference between tai and vai which both mean "or" in English but are used differently in Finnish. Here's an explanation: https://uusikielemme.fi/finnish-vocabulary/interesting-words/the-difference-between-tai-and-vai.
1 x
Pimsleur Finnish: 25/30 chapters
Teach Yourself Complete Finnish: 2/30 chapters
Drops Finnish: 1252/3000 words (milestone 20/25)
Lingohut Finnish: 15/125 lessons


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