My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

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Khayyam
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My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:43 pm

Very long-term, audaciously ambitious goal: fluently read the texts of ancient Persian mages, sages, magicians, mystics, philosophers, etc. (In the meantime, to develop a sense for the milieu I'll be entering, I'll read or listen to modern English or German treatments of Zoroastrianism and other parts of ancient Persian culture.)

Long-term goal: master modern Persian to the same point that I've mastered German--meaning, I can understand most anything I read or hear. (Speaking isn't the goal, but I'm less intimidated by the prospect of speaking Persian than German because Persian grammar's very simple.)

Medium-term goal: painstakingly master reading and listening to as many Persian texts as necessary for my vocabulary to gel to the point that I can spend most of my time simply reading or listening rather than grinding new words into my brain. So far, I've mastered three simple children's books to the point that I can casually read or listen to them and never wonder about words.

My original plan was to keep on going through children's books until I could read any Persian children's book without looking up words, but finding suitable material--dual-language, accurate translations, has an audio track--has been surprisingly frustrating. I was at my wits' end the other night trying to find something new to learn when I had an idea: why not find a Persian translation of the King James Bible? I'm quite familiar with the English version because I read most of it in high school seminary, and I still have my copy. And one would expect to find top-notch, free written and spoken translations of it in virtually any language.

Within half an hour, I'd put the the first two chapters of a Persian reading of Genesis on my mp3 player, printed out the written version, and gotten far enough to learn how to say "let there be light" (or more accurately, "light, BE") in Persian. That was all it took to steer me onto a totally different path. I've pretty much abandoned the idea of children's books, and am going to stick to famous, readily available religious texts for the foreseeable future. When I'm done with Genesis ("done" meaning I can play the audio while walking, hiking, doing chores, etc. and never lose the thread), I may trudge on through dreary Deuteronomy, or may I jump to the Song of Solomon, which to me has the spirit of Persian poetry. At any rate, I don't anticipate having to pay for new material for quite a long time.

It'll be ironic, and in my mind amusing, to use the texts of the conquering monotheisms as stepping stones to an understanding of Zoroastrianism.

Today's plan is to absorb at least the first two chapters of Genesis, and maybe the third.

As I grind my way through scriptures and my vocabulary grows, I'll play Persian music a lot, maybe start listening to spoken stuff that I've not already read, and watch as my word-recognition frequency increases. I know it'll happen because it happened with German, and because those lights are already starting to flash.

I'm happy today. I like the path I'm on.
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
Die Klinge ist mein Segelboot

Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:47 pm

On second thought, the first chapter of Genesis will be sufficient for today. Vocab list is 101 words long. I've really bitten off a big piece of meat this time.
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Die Klinge ist mein Segelboot

Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:29 am

I've made it through the first 12 chapters of Genesis. It's an extremely slow grind, but I'm getting faster. Vocab is growing. I kinda have to question my sanity when I'm a beginner learning names like Chedorlaomer, though.

I'm certain I will never, ever forget how to say that someone begat someone in Persian. I know that as well as I know "ich bin" in German.

Pro tip: if you ever use the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah to learn a language, the soundtrack to Maximum Carnage on the SNES makes great background music. Get 'em, Yahweh, get 'em! *maniacal air guitar*

Cool trivia I think I would appreciate even Persian wasn't my thing: you know how people are always smiting other people in the Old Testament? Well, the way that's translated into Persian makes it sound much cooler, at least IMO as a beginner. In the Persian translation, instead of smiting, they give/bestow/gift failure/setback/defeat/breaking to their enemies. Makes me wonder exactly what the Hebrew means. Ehhh, no, bad-bad-bad--no more sidetracks into other languages.

I said in my last post that I wasn't going to spend money on this for a good while, but I switched course agaaayn (good thing language-learning is friendlier to frequent changes of approach than most disciplines are) and bought the Assimil Persian-learning course...for German speakers! I suspect this is going to be the best 90 bucks I ever spent other than that time in Tijuana (just kidding). Laddering from German to Persian takes away some of the anxiety that I feel about losing my edge with the former if I put it on hold to build my Persian to the same level as quickly as possible. It's also profoundly satisfying, and motivating, to know that my German is good enough to easily enable this. I have to look up geeky grammatical terms every now and then, but that's about it. It's written in such a friendly tone, too (lots of reminders not to stress if you mess up), and the illustrations are cute, and I LOVE that it's so friendly to people like me who prefer to start strictly passive/receptive, and...well, dang it, I'd be lying if I said I don't sometimes get the urge to kiss this book goodnight. Zealous new Assimil convert here.

I was going to stay up all the way through New Year's Eve to go Persian-crazy, but I'd already been doing that for half of New Year's Eve day and crashed at an early hour because my brain was just done. Woke up refreshed. Good enough. I'll call that an auspicious start to the year.
Last edited by Khayyam on Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
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Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:38 am

. edit: Ugh. I ALWAYS hit quote when I mean edit.
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Le Baron
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Le Baron » Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:10 am

Khayyam wrote:. edit: Ugh. I ALWAYS hit quote when I mean edit.

I know this pain.
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Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:20 am

I'm about 120 pages into Persisch Ohne Muehe. It really is practically ohne Muehe; I've been studying it mostly during my breaks at work, sometimes with annoying noise around me, and I've never hit a snag. That's partly due to Persian grammar being so simple (think "programming language designed to make kids like programming" kind of simple), and partly due to my already having learned some Persian before I started, and partly due to the way the book is structured, which is just blissfully compatible with the way I like to learn. I will virtually always choose receptive practice over active practice if left to my own devices, but Assimil tempts me down a garden path to the active side.

It's going to be funny if my Persian grammar is better after six months than my German grammar is after three years. Likely scenario, I'd say.

Tonight, I'll give Assimil my all in a quiet room for a good hour, and then I'll take a long, aimless walk (been too long since I had one of those) and listen to a mix of German and Persian audio until I get tired and decide to go home. Being sick of the walk but still having miles to go to get home puts me in a mindset where I'm very receptive to the audio, since I have nothing to do to alleviate the tedium but listen.
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:34 am

Arte have a three part documentary series you might like, Von Kyros bis Khomeini:
Die einstigen Herrscher Persiens errichteten ein gigantisches Reich, dessen blühende Kultur in der antiken Welt Vorbild war. Vor der arabischen Eroberung hatten die persischen Machthaber drei römischen Kaisern standgehalten. Die filmische Reise in die ferne Vergangenheit des Irans offenbart eine überaus vielfältige Kultur. Invasionen und Revolutionen zum Trotz haben sich die Iranerinnen und Iraner ihre Sprache und Identität stets bewahrt.


EDIT
A funny thing about this programme is that I can watch it using the Firefox web brower, but if I use Safari it's geo-blocked. :-) I think this might because Safari's privacy settings default to withholding the IP address.
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Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:41 am

DaveAgain wrote:Arte have a three part documentary series you might like, Von Kyros bis Khomeini:
Die einstigen Herrscher Persiens errichteten ein gigantisches Reich, dessen blühende Kultur in der antiken Welt Vorbild war. Vor der arabischen Eroberung hatten die persischen Machthaber drei römischen Kaisern standgehalten. Die filmische Reise in die ferne Vergangenheit des Irans offenbart eine überaus vielfältige Kultur. Invasionen und Revolutionen zum Trotz haben sich die Iranerinnen und Iraner ihre Sprache und Identität stets bewahrt.


EDIT
A funny thing about this programme is that I can watch it using the Firefox web brower, but if I use Safari it's geo-blocked. :-) I think this might because Safari's privacy settings default to withholding the IP address.


HAMMERGEIL, ATZE!

(Wonder how long it'll be before I learn to say that in Persian.)
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
Die Klinge ist mein Segelboot

Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:14 pm

How to say "God helps those who help themselves" in Persian: "As toh harakat as choda barakat." From you movement, from God blessings.

So snappy--I can almost hear a whip cracking--and it rhymes!
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
Die Klinge ist mein Segelboot

Khayyam
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Re: My Long, Strange Path to Ancient Persia

Postby Khayyam » Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:53 pm

I finished the Assimil book and am going through it a second time just to be sure as much of the vocab sticks as possible. It's a built-tough hardcover, but I'm sure testing its limits. There'll likely be duct tape on the spine by the time round two's over.

I often play the audio when I'm busy doing other things, and I'm able to follow most of it.

Assimil introduced me to Mullah Nasreddin, and I'm becoming a big fan. I'll eat up as many stories about him as I can while deciding what my next big project will be. Back to the Old Testament?

Summary of a Mullah Nasreddin story from the book: The Mullah wants to start a wood fire in the kitchen oven while his wife's away. He can't get it going, though, and he reasons that this is because the oven knows the kitchen is his wife's domain and is refusing to cooperate. So, he dresses up in his wife's clothes and gives it another go. This time, the wood lights! Just then, his wife appears and asks him what he's doing. He tells her to shush because he's tricking the oven. Too late--a spark leaps onto him, and his (her) clothes catch fire. The oven is clearly angry at having been fooled!

Another one:

Wife: Why are you searching for your pencil outside? You lost it inside.

Mullah: It's brighter out here!
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
Die Klinge ist mein Segelboot


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