Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

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CaroleR
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:21 am

Week of 13-19 Jan, 23

Textbooks + workbook
Par ici: méthode de français – Échelle québécoise 5-6 (B1)
**Été**
– Épisode 17: On lit! cont'd
– Épisode 18: Et si tu me recontais . . . How to talk to strangers + le plus-que-parfait + le passé simple; there is also a short piece on Félix Leclerc, a major Québec artist, « un monument de la culture québécoise » – see also Balado below. In this lesson, in one of the "Faits d'ici" about origins of place names, there's mention of Paul Chomedey de Maisonneuve, co-founder of Montreal. I lived on Chomedey Street just above de Maisonneuve for about 10 years. I've decided these coincidences have nothing to do with the encouragement of the universe and are due to Quebec just being a small town. Otherwise it's just too woowoo. And by Quebec, I mean the province, not the city.
PMP Complete French – l'imparfait + le plus-que-parfait
Complete French Grammar – it's kind of painful starting from the beginning, eg. "un garçon, une fille", "je mange une pomme," etc., but I don't want to skip anything, just in case. Weirdly, she uses "j'ai des poux" to illustrate "des," although she hastens to add that she doesn't actually have lice. Also weirdly, she lives not too far from me in a Vancouver suburb. I didn't know that before I bought the books. She is French from France, not Canada and she says she does not speak québécois.

TV
L'épicierie – 22 min
– s21ep13 – Les rituels autochtones autour du solstice d'hiver et de Noël – they make a dish with les cérises de l'île d'Orléans. :shock: (see also Balado below) Plus, a tarte-au-sucre taste test. Tarte au sucre is a Christmas fixture in Quebec. The winner was St-Hubert, made by a BBQ chain I used to go to with my dad. "Putt putt putt St-Hubert Bar-b-que." I still remember that jingle, many years later.
Eaux turbulentes – 43 min
– s2ep2 Barricades
– s2ep3 Villa Pimpina
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep58-60
Fragments – 43 min
– s1ep4 Les mères
– s1ep5 Les morts-vivants
La vie secrète des animaux – 23 mins
– s2ep5 Sortir les déchets – avec leur cacamobile. :lol: As exciting as it was to see such a wide variety of poop, it was more interesting (for me anyway, as I'm poop-phobic) to see how the zoo is recycling various types of garbage, such as old fire hoses and tires; toys for elephants and fruit pockets for lemurs are among the inventions. The zoo staff are quite creative. Good episode, although I could have lived without witnessing the close-ups of animals … er, evacuating. Especially the elephants. Tabarouette, they poop big! This season is way more up-close and personal than last year. (Side note: the very funny colour commentator is Stéphane Rousseau, who is also an actor in Stat, my current favourite drama.)

Books
Maisons de verre by Louise Penny ~450 pgs
Still reading La grande aventure. One thing that stood out recently was mention of the "takeover" of French in Canada by québécois. There are a lot of French speakers outside of Quebec, so why is the language so often considered québécois. I use it because it's the language of where I'm from, but it leaves out all the francophones in the rest of the country.

Balado
Aujourd'hui l'histoire – 29 min
Félix Leclerc, le militant …
« Félix Leclerc, c'est notre barde national. Il sera toujours là dans la mémoire collective pour rappeler qu'un artiste peut prendre la parole et changer les choses dans son époque. » – Danick Trottier, professeur de musicologie à l'Université du Québec à Montréal (UQAM). On the site there's a photo of Leclerc, Gilles Vigneault and Robert Charlebois at the Superfrancofête of 1974, three huge figures in Quebec. What an event that must have been! "Le militant" refers to Leclerc's nationalism, his fervent hope for an independent Quebec. Here's a link to a Youtube video of his seminal song, Le Tour de l'île. I would have posted it here, but it's quite long – 6:20 min. I hesitated also because his political views were opposite to my own. However, I can't deny the influence he has had on Quebec, nor can I just ignore him. He's too great a figure, a giant, some would say. The "île" in the song refers to l'Île d'Orléans, where he lived.

Here is the first verse:
Pour supporter
Le difficile
Et l'inutile
Y a l'tour de l'île
Quarante-deux milles
De choses tranquilles
Pour oublier
Grande blessure
Dessous l'armure
Eté, hiver
Y a l'tour de l'île
L'Ile d'Orléans
The rest of the lyrics are on the video page. One commenter said the song was (is?) « un hymne à l'indépendance ». Have I mentioned that language is very political in Quebec? And emotional. I think if I can just understand this song I'll be able to understand the people better.

Mâche-patate : le podcast des Urbaincultures – le top 5 plants médicinales à cultiver chez soi : l'hysope, la bardane, la scutellaire, le tilleul et la verge d'or. Gardening can also be a form of independance.

Anki
Worked on this every day for 20-30 minutes. I'm pondering how to further study those annoying words I can't seem to remember. Another issue is remembering words I know in Anki but not when I come across them in other media.

My plan for the next while is to listen to more podcasts in an attempt to improve my listening ability. Listening comprehension is probably my worst "competence." Or is that my best incompetence? :lol: There are some good listening tips in the thread Why are movies and TV shows so difficult to understand? that I'm going to try as well.

Bon, à la prochaine.
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:59 am

Week of 20-26 Jan, 23

News: read an interesting article about a Montreal company that has developed a tool that can detect AI-generated text. It's about 93% accurate at the moment and is currently available for English only. The French version will be available at the end of January and more languages are in the works. En français: Un outil montréalais pour détecter l’IA pourrait contrer les « dérives de ChatGPT »

Textbooks + workbook
Par ici: méthode de français – Échelle québécoise 5-6 (B1)
**Été**
– Épisode 18: cont'd – the last exercise of this episode was to choose a place or street named after someone from 6 options and write a short essay on the person named. I chose le marché Jean-Talon. The Marchés publics website uses current gender/number spelling in its text, which makes it hard to read, imo. Ex. « …les Montréalais.e.s peuvent découvrir le savoir-faire de nos producteur.trice.s et artisan.e.s » Maybe it will become easier with more exposure, but so far I'm not keen. I can see it being a typesetting nightmare. Currently stuck on the passé simple in the workbook exercises, ugh.
PMP Complete French – l'imparfait, le passé simple, and again le plus-que-parfait, which may be more than perfect, but alas, I am not. I don't know why I'm not getting this, but I keep hearing my grade 8 teacher saying, "Now class, we are going to learn the plus-que-parfait. Open your books to page xx." And that's all I remember about that. I may have dozed off. Not getting the passé simple either. I don't remember studying it in school at all. But, come to think of it, I don't remember studying anything else in school either, so there's that.
Complete French Grammar – Le pluriel des noms.

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep61-64
Fragments – 43 min
– s1ep6 Ligne de vie
– s1ep7 Magie rose (ref à un spectacle de Diane Dufresne de 1984 chez le Big O (aka the Big Owe) – avec 55 000 personnes habillées en rose) – this episode only briefly refers to the concert. The characters were looking back to that time in their lives, through rose-coloured glasses.
– s1ep8 Se peindre nu
La vie secrète des animaux – 23 mins
– s2ep6 Chez le dentiste – most of the animals needing dental work are sedated but the gorillas are trained to open their mouths so staff can brush their teeth. They get many treats for this. The gorillas, not the staff.
Eaux turbulentes – 43 min
– s2ep4 Démantèlement
– s2ep5 Course au trésor
Découverte s35 – 43 mins
Planète verte : Mondes aquatiques (a BBC production, adaptation by Radio-Canada)
Planète verte : Mondes désertiques

Youtube videos
Ma prof de français – 15:18 min
Facile d'être français au Québec? – with France ex-pat polyglot BigBong, now living in Quebec. He probably has another name.
Français avec Pierre – 9:12 min
Si tu connais ces mots tu as un niveau B2 – nope, 9/10, I missed "draguer" but should l'environnement really be on that list? Or la richesse? Une allure? Maybe if you don't speak English, but can you really say you're B2 if you do? Does this mean I'm B1.9 now? :lol:
The perfect French – 9:22 min
French optional liaisons – are they too formal? Oui! It hurts my ears when I hear the "p" pronounced in "trop."
La cuisine de Jean Philippe – 14:04 min
Épicerie de base végane – He's quite funny. He kept holding up a can of le fameux sirop d'érable québécois. It goes with everything. We are very proud of our maple syrup. In Quebec in the spring there are sugaring-off parties where the producers host meals (maybe only breakfast), and pour the syrup on the snow to make popsicles. It's a sweet part of the culture. :D
(I also watched a video by a woman who learned French from zero to C1 in 10 months! This was just after reading Rdearman's recent rant. My sentiments exactly!)

Books
Maisons de verre by Louise Penny ~450 pgs
Had to return La grande aventure to the library. Still had about 80 pages to read but couldn't get it done. I may pick it up again in a few days if it's still there. Our library system is regional, covering lots of towns, so it may go back to the original branch. I'd have to request it again if so.

Balados
Aujourd'hui l'histoire – 23 min
Jean Talon, l'intendant de la Nouvelle-France à la vision ambitieuse – more than a market and a street. I'd never heard the word intendant before, but it meant that he was responsible for the law, police and finance, not to mention Les filles du roi; can't have a colony without women.
Magie rose, the spectacle de Diane Dufresne au stade olympique devenue mythique (The critics were harsh, some making reference to the fable La grenouille et la bœuf by Jean de la Fontaine, meaning that Dufresne seemed to think that she was as big as Michael Jackson. How dare she?? She was pretty big, though.)
En cinq minutes
Comprendre les polyglottes – 6:07 min
Pourquoi certains cheveux frisent et d'autres pas? – 6:18 min

Québécisme
• C'est de valeur (dommage, regrettable, malheureux) = It's unfortunate
Ex. C'est de valeur qu'il est malade.

Eh bien, c'est tout pour l'instant. Happy trails.
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:42 am

CaroleR wrote:
Québécisme
• C'est de valeur (dommage, regrettable, malheureux) = It's unfortunate
Ex. C'est de valeur qu'il est malade.
Now that would confuse me! :-)
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:29 pm

DaveAgain wrote:
CaroleR wrote:
Québécisme
• C'est de valeur (dommage, regrettable, malheureux) = It's unfortunate
Ex. C'est de valeur qu'il est malade.
Now that would confuse me! :-)

You wouldn't be the only one. BigBong in the Ma prof de francais video said that it was an expression he had trouble with as well. Apparently it has indigenous origins. Here's more than you probably wanted to know about C'est de valeur. :D
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:37 am

27 Jan – 2 Feb, 23
Came up against the great wall of resistance this week. Ugh. Aside from some personal challenges, I was finding the textbook exercises too hard and was feeling sorry for myself for being on this plateau FOREVER. But I read a bunch of posts and seem to have recovered my enthusiasm, albeit temporarily. Thanks to NoManches for the myriad links in this thread. They really helped. In one of the linked threads, smallwhite mentioned Ari's Chinesepod method from HTLAL and I've started do this with dialogues from my textbook. All that said, the week ended worse than it began and I got very little done regarding language learning. :(

News
– Read this story in Le Devoir : Québec forme un « groupe d'action » interministériel sur la langue française: Le gouvernement Legault annonce la formation d’un « groupe d’action » … pour trouver des moyens de freiner le « déclin » de la langue au Québec. Et qu'il y a « urgence d'agir » et the groupe devra proposer un « plan ambitieux » – Their quotes, not mine. Can't wait to hear all about their "ambitious plan."
– And, from La Presse, Quebec now has its "tout premier commissaire à la langue française," whatever that means. It's part of the "plan," I guess.

Textbook + workbook
Par ici: méthode de français – Échelle québécoise 5-6 (B1)
**Été**
– Épisode 18: cont'd – finally finished this lesson, but I skipped two exercises on the passé simple. I intend to come back to it once I've mastered that effin tense. Probably. Possibly.
– Épisode 19: Un monde de possibilités – le subjonctif présent. Drat! Now I have to try to pronounce "pas que je sache" again. It always comes out "pas que je shash." :oops:

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep65-68
Découverte s35 – 43 mins
Planète verte : Mondes habités
Fragments – 43 min
– s1ep9 Les yeux ouverts – This was quite an intense episode, involving assisted dying, self-mutilation and difficult family relationships. Books have played a minor, but interesting, role throughout the series. There was a quote from Pastorale américaine by Philip Roth: « La vie n'est qu'une courte période de temps pendant laquelle on est vivvant. » And another from Mémoires d'Hadrien by Marguerite Yourcenar: « Tâchons d'entrer dans la mort les yeux ouverts », in a flashback, quoted by a character who is about to die. Cheery.

Books
Maisons de verre by Louise Penny
La grande aventure – it was on the shelf at the library so I re-borrowed it. Probably should have left it for someone else, but I didn't. And, coincidentally, the first couple of pages I read discussed the passé simple and its potential disappearance. Seems as though no one wants to use it anymore. Except writers. And the translators of Louise Penny's books. I think it's still worth learning. Dylane of Complete French Grammar doesn't agree. She doesn't include it in her book on verbs, except to list some of the endings, because it's not used in speech, only in books and some newspapers. Guess she doesn't read. Maybe it's disappearing more rapidly in France than in Canada.

Anki 15–30 mins per day, most days
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:41 am

3– 9 Feb, 23
Didn't get much done this week, too many other things going on. I'm hopeful that next week will be more productive.

News
Read an interesting Radio-Canada article about inclusive writing. They mention "iel" as a non-gendered replacement for il and elle, but bring up the point of how to follow that with a gendered phrase. Eg. « Iel est beau ou belle? » They are also not keen on « l'emploi de doublets abrégés (par exemple : étudiant.e.s). » Neither am I, as mentioned in a previous post. Their solution seems to be to use a non-gendered word instead of a gendered one when writing about a non-binary person. For example, instead of « les soldats », use « l'armée », etc. Sounds challenging.

Textbooks + workbook
Par ici: méthode de français – Échelle québécoise 5-6 (B1)
**Été**
– Épisode 19: Un monde de possibilités cont'd – skipped the passé simple and the subjunctif exercises in the workbook. I do plan to come back to them after I study those tenses.
– Épisode 20: Bilan: On va au théâtre!

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep69-72
La semaine verte: La faune canadienne au fil des saisons – 43 min – also in English on CBC's Nature of Things as The Wild Canadian Year, both versions narrated by the respective hosts of the shows
– 5 episodes, 4 seasons plus a behind-the-scenes episode about how they got the incredible video
Fragments – 43 min
– s1ep10 Le témoin – last episode. This was kind of a tear-jerker, but it got weird at the end. In the last scene 6 friends got on a bed together, including 3 who were dead. Not sure what to make of that. I missed a lot because I didn't have the subs on, so maybe I'll watch the series again.
Eaux turbulentes – 43 min
– s2ep6 Game over

Same books, same anki.
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:11 pm

My week of French …

10 – 16 Feb, 23

News: the usual

Textbooks
Par ici: méthode de français – Échelle québécoise 5-6 (B1)
**Été**
– Épisode 20 cont'd: Bilan: On va au théâtre! There was another place-name exercise in this lesson. The instructions were to choose a place or street from a list, research the so-named person and write a 12-line paragraph. I chose Anne Hébert, an well-known Quebec writer, although she spent much of her adult life in France. But from what I can tell, most of her books were set in Quebec. I think her books are a bit too difficult for me right now, but I may attempt them later, especially Kamouraska. This is the last lesson for this level. I have the text for the next level (B2), but I'm going to focus on grammar and listening for a while. And writing. Writing is not my forté and I skipped some exercises in the last few lessons because they were too hard and I just didn't want to do them! We need a whining emoji. :lol:
Complete French Grammar
– partitive articles, the present tense; I feel like I'm back in elementary school. Maybe I should pay better attention this time. In one exercise I missed four of 10 questions. What the … :oops:

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep73-76
Doute raisonnable – séries, policier – 43 min
–s2ep1 Post trauma
La vie secrète des animaux – 23 min
– s2ep7 C'est du sport
– s2ep8 Un zoo la nuit
– s2ep9 Opération vaccin

Youtube video
My Polyglot Life by Cathy Intro, not sure if that's her actual last name. She's an expat française now living in Montreal. She has a number of Quebec-based episodes, plus she also has an audio podcast with transcripts.
Français Québécois vs Français de France – 20 min – interview with Geneviève Breton of Ma prof de français

Books
Maisons de verre by Louise Penny ~450 pgs
• Finally finished La grande aventure – in just 13 weeks! Go me! :lol:

Balados
Aujourd'hui l'histoire – 23 min
Anne Hébert, l'auteur secrète à la vie intérieure riche. From the website: « Avec Kamouraska (1970) et Les fous de Bassan (1982), elle a dépeint le fossé entre la surface des choses et le tourbillon qui couve. » Both books were made into films.
Pierre Elliott Trudeau, 1968-1972 : un premier mandat annonciateur; former prime minister and father of our current PM
My Polyglot Life – 10 min
Différence culturelles : la tradition de la Saint-Valentin en France et au Canada – 10 min

Anki: 15–30 mins per day

Bon, c'est tout pour l'instant. Bye for now.
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:27 am

Another week of French
17–23 Feb, 23

Still reading the news headlines every day, plus the odd article.

Textbook
Complete French Grammar by Dylane Moreau
– watching the videos and doing the exercises; this is my main text, supplemented with the following:
PMP Complete French
French Grammar Drills – there are audio files and quizzes online that go with the drills. They're super easy so far, but I hope they'll help with automatisation. (Idea thanks to Cavesa. I hadn't heard of that before. Then, of course, a number of people have since brought it up in other threads. Where have I been? :D )

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep77-80
Watched one episode without subs, rewatched in 1 minute chunks with subs/audio off, rewound and watched without subs/audio on. It was reaaaally tedious, but it helped a lot with comprehension. I won't do that again, though. I watched (intensively) the next few episodes with subs and then again without. Comprehension was pretty good and it wasn't as tedious, so I'll probably do more of that with short shows.
La vie secrète des animaux – 23 mins
– s2ep10 C'est l'hiver – is it ever! I was snowed-in for days … but it's not about me, is it? Something tells me it's all happening at the zoo. (Ha! I'm dating myself.)

Book
– Still reading Maisons de verre by Louise Penny, but I should finish it this week

Anki
– added a couple of short decks

Started doing Iversen's type of word lists, so far for certain words I'm not remembering in Anki. It will be interesting to see how it goes. I have difficulty following written instructions, so I found a fellow on Youtube, Ruben Quinones, who made a series of simplified videos about the method. I hope Iversen approves.
Level up your vocabulary with the Iversen Method!
Demonstration of the Iversen Method
Demonstration of Iversen Method, continued

I received an interesting software-update-notification email from the company that makes Family Tree Maker, the genealogy software that I use. They're based in Ukraine and had sheltered from the war from a "safe haven," although they have mostly returned to Kyiv. "The air raid sirens still sound all too often, and the electricity goes out for a few hours now and then. But we have a generator. And our own satellite dish. So for those of our staff not fighting at the front, the work of making Family Tree Maker goes on." One of their live chat agents is in Kraków, Poland volunteering at the consulate and putting the five languages she speaks to good use. In spite of all that, the update is free. I am inspired by their resilience and courage.

Stay safe everyone.
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:54 am

24 Feb – 2 Mar, 23
Looks like a slacker week, but I've been doing a lot of grammar and I don't have a whole lot to say about prepositions. Except, I'm having a bit of trouble with "de." It carries a lot of weight for such a little word and knowing when to use it is, ahem, challenging. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it at some point.

News
Nothing new to see here.

Textbooks
Complete French Grammar by Dylane Moreau – I like her teaching style. I may buy her book on conjugations.

• PMP Complete French
• French Grammar Drills

These are on the back burner until I finish prepositions with Dylane. They both do everything all at once whereas Dylane splits them up into many different lessons.

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep81-84 – watched each episode twice. We finally find out who stabbed the gay bar killer. Spoiler: turns out, it was Judy Guirlande, the drag queen, with her red stilettos!
Doute raisonnable – 43 min
–s2ep2 Intuition – could barely watch this once. My intuition tells me to avoid this particular show.
L'épicerie – 22 min
– s21ep14 Prix erroné à la caisse : quels sont vos droits? plus women seeking asylum who are part of a collective of cooks. They earn a bit of money and their neighbours get some home-cooked meals.

I'm resisting watching TV these days, aside from Stat. Nothing really appeals. Much like English TV, which I stopped watching years ago.

Book
– Finally finished Maisons de verre by Louise Penny. This wasn't one of my favourites but, intrestingly, she brings up Maurice "Mom" Boucher at the end. Mom was an infamous leader of the Montreal Hell's Angels for quite a long time. One of the characters in the book, his supposed nephew and heir apparent, works as a chef in the bistro in Three Pines. :shock: I like how Penny always works some Quebec history or culture into her books.

Anki and word lists
Working on both for short periods of time. I'm enjoying doing the word lists. It seems that I'm remembering them better short term than with anki. Time will tell, I guess.

Bon, c'est tout pour cette semaine. À la prochaine. Hope you're all enjoying your language learning!
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Re: Le français québécois: Lâche pas la patate!

Postby CaroleR » Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:56 am

3-9 Mar, 23
My easy peasey week of French. In the spring I'm always busy doing springtime things like cleaning the roof and gardening, etc. So in the weeks to come, French may be getting even less attention than this week, malheureusement.

News: same, same, same
Read an article about the modernisation of the official languages law and came across this word: fransaskois. It was easy enough for me to figure out, but unsurprisingly, both DeepL and Google were unable to translate. It's a word that's endemic to Canada so no one else needs to know it. It means a francophone from Saskatchewan.

Textbooks
Complete French Grammar – finally finished prepositions but I must say that I haven't mastered them. Far from it.
PMP Complete French –"If you want to stay out of trouble and avoid confusion, you must learn these prepositions well!" :cry:  

TV
STAT – 22 min
– s1ep85-88 – same as last week, watched with and then without subs
Découverte: Le mystère de l'homme de Densova – That was interesting. A finger bone of a little girl was found in Siberia, and that led to Papua New Guinea where they found some living descendants. Apparently the original people had really big teeth.

Book
Au royaumme des aveugles by Louise Penny, translation of Kingdom of the Blind; why no, I don't read anything other than Louise Penny. Why do you ask?

Anki and word lists
Did 15-20 minutes most days

I'm thinking about getting back to the Par ici course book. Grammar isn't as exciting as I thought it would be. :lol:

Québécismes
• Placoter (placotage ) = to chatter, gossip
Ex Tu « as trop perdu de temps à placoter avec moi » – Antonine Maillet (via Usito)
• Ladsu and ladans = not Québécisms exactly but pronounciations that, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out. Finally, it became clear while watching a TV show with subs. The speakers were saying "là-dessus" and "là-dedans." Sometimes the "d" is barely pronounced with "la-dessus" and it sounds like they're saying "lasoo."
• Sacrer son camp = leave, get out – Ex. « … j’aurais ben l’goût d’sacrer mon camp jusqu’au printemps. » – Plume Latraverse (moi aussi, tbh)

That's it for this week. Salut tout le monde.
5 x
Join me in the crowded streets of dull possibility – Billy-Ray Belcourt


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