Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, German, Japanese, bits of French)

[garyb]

Thanks for the replies, I agree with everything. Learning languages has definitely expanded my horizons and given me experiences I wouldn't have otherwise had, even if I've perhaps taken it too far at times. Sometimes I do wonder about opportunity cost, "what if I had spent all that time and effort on other things?", but that's life and you could say that about any activity.

Anyway, back to the practical stuff, now that I'm settling back in I'm still keen to improve my Spanish, at least my listening comprehension which is still at that stage of being quite good but many films and conversations between natives are still difficult to follow. Especially if they're not from Spain. Speaking is less of a priority for now since I don't have much need for it, although in the next month or so I might be moving back to the city where it would come in useful more. My plan is just TV and film, with Spanish subtitles when available, and it shouldn't be hard since there's so much Spanish and Latin American cinema I want to check out.

[lingua]

Gary & Iguanamon,

I don't have much to add but relate to what you both have said. I started learning Italian because of my heritage and had romanticized ideas of the country but after being there quite a few times I'm more realistic about the country. I've never lost my love of the language though.

[garyb]

As expected I'm back in the city. Languages still aren't a big priority but I have been reading and watching some stuff:

• L'amica geniale by Elena Ferrante: finally got around to this book that I had heard so much about. It was a well-written and enjoyable story of two friends growing up, which was a nice mix of things I could relate to and things that were interesting and different because of their background. Not exactly a masterpiece, and I was a little underwhelmed after all the praise it got, but certainly a good read nonetheless. Not sure if I'd say good enough to read the sequels, especially since as books go they're not cheap!
• The latest three episodes of Il commissario Montalbano on the BBC. I feel like they're a bit more back on form after the previous few that I didn't enjoy all that much, although the stories are still a little far-fetched and I swear I could sense a little political propaganda here and there.
• A few Spanish films I missed at the Málaga festival: El bar (had good moments but disappointing overall), Amar (sounded interesting but I gave up halfway through, just wasn't my thing), Nieve Negra (quite good).
• Started reading La casa de los espíritus again, for the third time! I'm around 60% through it now, and while there are still many unknown words it doesn't feel arduous and I'm getting into the story more. Again not quite my kind of book but interesting enough that I'm willing to finish it.

I've had some opportunities to speak Italian (I even have another Italian housemate in my new place!) but I've just not felt like taking advantage of them. I don't really feel the motivation/pressure to keep practising and improving that I did before. I suspect it's just a temporary thing after my trip and the realisations that I wrote about and hopefully a healthy balance will return soon. As for Spanish, I've not had any opportunities yet although I've heard plenty of it in the neighbourhood, and it's still a case of not chasing opportunities but if they come up I'll be happy to take advantage.

[garyb]

Finally spoke Italian a couple of times in the last week, and it was a bit rusty but okay. I suppose that's how my speaking in all my languages is going to be for the foreseeable future...

Haven't made it to any of the Spanish film festival yet between illness and being busy with other things, but I've watched some stuff on Netflix which actually has a decent Spanish selection these days. One of the films I had hoped to catch at the festival (El hombre de las mil caras) is even on Netflix so I decided to save myself the price of the cinema ticket. I do like going to the cinema but I'm a bit lazy especially now that I live further away. Watched a couple of other things on Netflix too, including Secuestrados (home invasion thriller, a bit too intense and violent for my tastes but recommended if you're into that kind of thing).

The Italian selection is still very slim, but the other day a series based on Suburra became available and it seems like a gift to Italian learners! Finally something of decent quality and legally watchable online, even with the option of Italian subtitles. It's a story about gangs and political corruption, and like the film I'd say it's not the best in its genre but it's still well-made and enjoyable. It's set in Rome so obviously there's some dialect, but it's not too heavy, which is a bonus as that's something that puts me off similar series like Romanzo Criminale and Gomorra.

[garyb]

Made it to a few Spanish films! El hombre de las mil caras was a story of financial fraud based on a true story which I enjoyed: fast-paced without being too difficult to follow. Marisa en los bosques was a mix of comedy and drama which did the former well and the latter not so well: some genuinely funny moments but overall it felt a little pretentious and like an inferior Almodóvar rip-off. It tried to do his brand of melodrama but didn't quite hit the spot and often came across like an amateur play (perhaps not surprising since the director's main background is in theatre). Mi gran noche was one of Alex de la Iglesia's over-the-top comedies making statements on society, and in my opinion much better than El bar which I also saw recently. Definitely a fun one to watch with a crowd in the cinema rather than at home. Alba was a drama about a teenage girl in Ecuador, in which excellent acting compensated for a relatively uninteresting story.

I've just finished reading La casa de los espíritus. I had mixed feelings about it, maybe partly because it took me so long to get through the first half between all my stops and starts and partly because I wasn't very familiar with the magical realism genre and I had expected a little more, well, magic than one character who happened to have psychic powers which had little relevance to the story as a whole. Fine really, since my general taste in books is much more realism than fantasy, but it's just a matter of expectations. I also felt that the characters, male ones especially but not only, were quite clichéd and one-dimensional and weren't developed much despite the length of the book. Alba was the only one who felt just about real enough to sympathise with. On the plus side, it was certainly well-written and the second half got very interesting and exciting with the historical and political context. I didn't know much about Pinochet's coup and the associated atrocities so it was good to learn about all that.

I'm aware that my log's becoming less about language learning and more about cinema and books, which for me isn't really the point of it. But I suppose it's about "languages and life" and that's the only role that languages really have in my life: I've now mostly lost interest in speaking them, so the literature and cinema that used to be means to an end have become ends in themselves. These days I often feel that my language studies over the last seven years or so have been a bit of a waste of time considering the opportunity cost: what if I had put all that time and effort into music or something else more rewarding instead? But what's done is done and maybe one day they'll come in useful. Learning languages has definitely rekindled and strengthened my interest in reading and cinema, and it's great being able to enjoy works in their original language even if it does feel like a kind of consolation prize considering that understanding is so much easier than speaking and my efforts were mostly focused on the latter. For the moment I'm happy enough to keep enjoying the fake representations of Italian and Spanish culture in media rather than the real ones where as a foreigner I often feel unwelcome and my studies of the language are often seen negatively.

[Ogrim]

These days I often feel that my language studies over the last seven years or so have been a bit of a waste of time considering the opportunity cost: what if I had put all that time and effort into music or something else more rewarding instead? But what's done is done and maybe one day they'll come in useful. Learning languages has definitely rekindled and strengthened my interest in reading and cinema, and it's great being able to enjoy works in their original language even if it does feel like a kind of consolation prize considering that understanding is so much easier than speaking and my efforts were mostly focused on the latter. For the moment I'm happy enough to keep enjoying the fake representations of Italian and Spanish culture in media rather than the real ones where as a foreigner I often feel unwelcome and my studies of the language are often seen negatively.

I am sorry that you feel this way, garyb, but from following your log I do understand that you have had some negative expreiences with using your languages. Still, being able to enjoy the cultural expressions of languages (whether you consider them fake representations or not) is not a bad outcome after all that time spent on learning them. I have a few languages I never use in active interaction with other people (Romansh and Catalan to name but two), only for consumption of culture and news. And I am struggling to learn some Arabic for the very same purpose. Of course it depends on your priorities, but in my humble opinion your languages are already useful to you if they allow you to enjoy movies and books in the original. So I think you should take pride in what you have achieved.

[garyb]

I am sorry that you feel this way, garyb, but from following your log I do understand that you have had some negative expreiences with using your languages. Still, being able to enjoy the cultural expressions of languages (whether you consider them fake representations or not) is not a bad outcome after all that time spent on learning them. I have a few languages I never use in active interaction with other people (Romansh and Catalan to name but two), only for consumption of culture and news. And I am struggling to learn some Arabic for the very same purpose. Of course it depends on your priorities, but in my humble opinion your languages are already useful to you if they allow you to enjoy movies and books in the original. So I think you should take pride in what you have achieved.

I completely agree that being able to understand all that stuff is a good outcome and a useful skill. Not to mention that it's great for travel: understanding what's going on around me makes visiting the country a totally different and better experience, even if the interaction part hasn't always gone so well. My point however is that if I had just wanted receptive skills then I could have saved myself a few years of effort and a lot of stress (looking for conversation opportunities etc.) since so much of my studies were focused on productive skills and they're the more difficult skills to develop (although of course there's some overlap, since input does contribute to speaking ability as well as comprehension). It's easy to think that I could have put that effort into receptive skills in another language or three or four, or into another more rewarding pursuit, but of course that's easy to say with hindsight.

Thanks for the reminder to take pride in it though, I need to remember that it's not been a total waste of time! I've also learnt a lot about myself and expanded my comfort zone through the pursuit of my goal and the bad experiences, so it's all been valuable. Trying to learn anything to a high level also teaches you about learning, and I've discovered some things that are now helping me in music, like the value of a more structured approach to learning and practice.

[garyb]

A bit of practical use for languages yesterday: my flatmate had some Spanish friends round for dinner. Being typically Spanish, most of the conversation was in their language (even though my other flatmate doesn't understand it) and one of them was just visiting the country and knew very little English. Needless to say I was very out of practice and my speaking has never been great anyway. Following the conversation was quite difficult at times - their speech was a lot less clear than what I'm used to from films and TV - and it was also hard to join in the conversation because I had to think about what I was saying and by the time I had thought about it the conversation had moved on and I had missed my short opportunity to join in. I was also quite limited by my vocabulary, for example there was talk about household items and furniture etc. and that was lots of words I understand but can't find when I want to use them. All standard intermediate-level stuff.

I'm not sure whether this motivated or demotivated me. It was a reminder that my languages can sometimes be useful and there was the thought that I could certainly get to that level where I can follow and join in more easily - I've already done it in two other Romance languages - but then the thought of the number of years it would take especially at my current pace: language studies on the back-burner, mostly input, very little speaking. Plus what I was saying in the last posts about it not feeling worth all the effort. Especially not just to impress the odd dinner guest, but of course I had plenty other reasons for deciding to learn it in the first place. For now I'm putting most of my spare time into music and not planning to change that, but I am managing at least half an hour of TV or film most days and there are always opportunities to squeeze in a bit of listening or reading. I realise that the "hidden moments" thing is kinda trendy language blogger hyperbole ("anyone can learn a language, even if they have a busy schedule!") and no substitute for serious study, but every little helps.

[garyb]

Latest media consumption: finished the Suburra series. Not exactly a masterpiece but it was quite gripping and well-written, and I could sympathise with the characters as they had nice sides as well as nasty ones. Started reading La tentazione di essere felici by Lorenzo Marone, which I'm quite enjoying: while the story is full of clichés and not exactly realistic, it's nice reading something modern from the perspective of an older man looking back on his life, assessing his regrets and mistakes, and slowly moving out of his own little world and becoming more involved with those around him. Even as a young person I can identify with him a little too much and it's making me think about the importance of being able to move on from missed opportunities, grudges, and bad decisions. I also recently read DH Lawrence's Sea and Sardinia, which is of course in English but with a lot of Italian phrases. It's an interesting and fun account of his short visit to the island and even a hundred years later I agree with many of his observations.

In Spanish: I'm watching whatever I find on Netflix, which is mostly films of passable quality. I also checked out Paquita Salas (thanks to Spoonary for mentioning it), and while it really was not my thing at all, I was still happy to see a real Spanish series on Netflix! I'm hoping that this and Suburra are a sign of more foreign-language TV to come. Netflix have just increased their prices, saying that it's because they're bringing us more media, and it does seem that their promise is accurate. I'm also watching a bit of French stuff to keep that language alive: the second series of Les Revenants (although so far it seems nowhere near as good as the first, the plot is all over the place) and also Marseille has been on my list for years.

I'm starting to feel the desire to speak my languages again. Maybe that healthy balance that I spoke about is coming. It's clear that I am still interested in languages, even if not as much as before. Plus speaking is just fun, at least if I don't take it too seriously. So I'm weighing up my options, as currently I have one Italian friend whom I only see once every two or three weeks and no contact with Spanish speakers except the occasional friend of friend, and that's not quite cutting it. I really don't want to go down the route of socialising with native speakers just to use them for their languages again, or of wasting time pursuing language exchanges. I could try (again) to convince my flatmate to speak some Italian with me, but so far she's not been very keen; I could try to get back in regular contact with some of my old Skype exchange partners, but they're mostly too busy with their lives now; I could go back to the Language Café event, which was always hit or miss but at least now I'm living a few minutes' walk from that bar rather than having to go halfway across town; I could go down the tutoring route again but I can't really be bothered searching for tutors again and my old Italian tutor was quite expensive for what she offered.

I realise that this is just becoming a game of Eric Berne's "Yes, but..." and I'm essentially saying I want practice opportunities but I want them to fall into my lap rather than having to pursue them. For Spanish, the Café is seeming like the easiest bet since it's nearby and there are almost always Spaniards there; a couple of years ago I did vow to never go back, but maybe I should apply some of the lessons from that book about not holding onto the past and give it another chance. For Italian, I do have contact with native speakers so perhaps I just need to be a little more assertive about getting help from them or work out some sort of deal so they get something out of it as well.

[Spoonary]

You're welcome Gary! Shame Paquita Salas wasn't your cup of tea, but I agree that it's great to see some real Spanish on Netflix (which I have actually only recently started using). Also, I was considering watching Suburra actually, so thanks for reminding me of its existence.