Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, German, Japanese, bits of French)

[emk]

I can't be too critical since many of these are one-person projects, and UX is a different skill from software dev and there's a reason that it's a job speciality in itself. And it's very cool that people (including you!) are making these efforts and that we might finally be starting to reach the stage where software resources are as useful or more so than traditional books and audio courses, or at least complement them better.

Yeah, UI is a specialized skill. If I choose to put in the effort, I can actually build a decent UI. But then I need to pick which platforms (Mac, Windows, Linux, Android, IOS, the web, etc). And I need to pay for signing keys ($99/year for the Mac, and $300/year for Windows). And then I need to deal with app stores and other gatekeepers, and that's a whole job, too. I have incredible respect for every single clunky language-learning tool that actually includes a UI and a nice installer.

For substudy, I compromised. It's a command-line tool, but it's almost entirely automatic—it automatically detects text encodings, languages, track IDs, etc, and converts as necessary behind the scenes. It's not yet configurable in any way, because I'm aspiring to make it do something good by default. And I may add some kind of web UI at some point.

But if you use Android, you might also want to take a glance at jidoujisho. It's free and open source. And the feature list looks really good on paper—if half of this is true, it should outdo Migaku. But it looks like you would need to install it via side-loading, because it's not in the app store. I may download it anyway.

Japanese really does get all the most innovative apps.

[garyb]

For substudy, I compromised. It's a command-line tool, but it's almost entirely automatic—it automatically detects text encodings, languages, track IDs, etc, and converts as necessary behind the scenes. It's not yet configurable in any way, because I'm aspiring to make it do something good by default. And I may add some kind of web UI at some point.

But if you use Android, you might also want to take a glance at jidoujisho. It's free and open source. And the feature list looks really good on paper—if half of this is true, it should outdo Migaku. But it looks like you would need to install it via side-loading, because it's not in the app store. I may download it anyway.

A good CLI beats a bad GUI for me, but I realise that's not for everyone! Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime.

Jidoujisho does seem to do a lot! It being mobile-only seems like a bit of a dealbreaker, though. I agreed with this recent post that a computer is the appropriate device for that kind of learning, and dealing with subtitled video and making flashcards on a small phone screen doesn't sound much fun, never mind the hassle of getting video files onto the phone in the first place if you don't go down the streaming route. I see the obvious advantages for things like flashcard reviews and reading on the move, though. It's another one that I'll keep in mind for once I'm at the point of working with more native media in Japanese!

[garyb]

The cinema membership has paid for itself already: at the weekend I caught Immaculate, a horror film set in a convent in Italy, and Monster (怪物, Kaibutsu), a recent Japanese psychological drama/mystery.

I wouldn't advise going out of your way to watch Immaculate unless you're into the genre anyway: the dialogue, which there isn't loads of, is half in English and half in Italian. Still, the English subtitles only barely captured the gist so understanding the Italian was a bonus. As a film, it was solid enough: well-made, an original combination of tropes, and it avoided the trap that many recent films fall into of being too long and trying too hard which it could've very easily done given the theme.

Monster was very good, and I wasn't complaining about the length when it was over two hours of solid Japanese exposure. The accents seemed a little different from the "clean" speech I'm used to from learner resources and anime, but I tuned in after a few minutes. As usual I didn't understand a whole lot but was pleased about how many little bits I did pick up, and seeing some common language in different contexts really helped to hammer it in. I also noticed a big improvement in my reading of on-screen text since the last full film I watched a few weeks ago; I think that learning to write has helped with this, as well as WaniKani on the Kanji side: I felt particularly smug when I understood the written phrase "elementary school leaving ceremony" (I think it was) before the subtitle flashed up! Katakana was still slow, but better.

Coming back to preferences again, I do like anime in small doses (or infrequent big ones) but live action will always be more my thing, and for both language and general enjoyment I like seeing realistic interactions. I'll need to check out some of the director's other work since he's quite famous and Shoplifters was already on my list.

Yes I'm procrastinating on work and travel planning. I don't think I'll become an amateur film critic just yet.

[garyb]

I joined a Spanish meetup call at my work, and this time there were actually other people there. I thought I should get a little practice since I'm going to Spain soon.

There were just two other people, both Americans who spoke Spanish fairly well. As for me, I think it was the first time I had spoken more than a couple of words for at least a few months, and I realised at first that my pronunciation wasn't very good (especially compared to the others, who had good accents) but it improved once I warmed up.

I had some German interference. I mentioned that the first few times I spoke German I had Spanish interference, which was thankfully nowhere to be seen in my more recent attempts, but it turns out that it's just gone the opposite way! I suppose that's just what happens when you focus on one language for a while and let the other slip.

Other than that, it was fine. My Spanish seems bad in comparison to my Italian but great in comparison to my German. We spoke about our work since we're in different parts of the company, which revealed some holes in that area of my vocabulary, and then about things like travel and languages where I was more in my comfort zone.

I've also been watching some Spanish videos about surfing, to pick up a bit of vocab since I'm planning to do some of that in Spain. For example, what we call "paddling" they call "rowing" (remar), which is a word I of course knew but not in that context.

[tastyonions]

I had an informal test of my Spanish just now when I went to drop my car off at the garage and one of the mechanics was speaking to a customer about her car. Have to say that my auto repair vocabulary could definitely use some work. :-)

[garyb]

Japanese

Finished Genki lesson 8 during the week and I'm a good chunk into 9. Which means I'm two-thirds, and almost three-quarters, finished the book. That feels quick! They say that if you finish the book and know the material well you should be at a solid A1/N5 level; sure, that's pretty much just baby speak, but for a difficult language that I've only been studying for a few months it'll still be something to be proud of. I have been working pretty hard and consistently with Japanese: I've barely missed a day of WaniKani since starting it, and I've done at least a tiny bit of course/textbook work most days and plenty more than a tiny bit some days.

I can see that studying Japanese could easily become a full-time job (like it is for some of the N1-in-two-years Redditors...) because there's just always more you could do. Interestingly I found with other "hard" language that I attempted in the past, like Greek and Russian, I seemed to get to a point after an hour or so where my brain just couldn't take in any more for the day and I had to stop, even if I was motivated enough to continue. Yet for Japanese I've rarely felt at that point, and when I have it's been after a good few hours of study. I'm not sure why it's different: do I just like the language more, or am I now better at varying my activities rather than doing all intensive all the time, or are the materials themselves better-paced (I remember with Russian that the Penguin course and even Pimsleur were very arduous!), or am I a better language learner in general now? Who knows.

Now imagine if I were to put that much effort into finally getting past beginner German, or getting my Spanish past the intermediate plateau, or perfecting my Italian! Or even one of my musical instruments or another of my interests. It makes me realise how non-serious most of my efforts in recent years have been in comparison to Japanese so far. I'm not saying this (just) to be self-critical, and of course I've had other priorities and goals that I have worked hard on and I've become better at slowing down sometimes too. In fact it's quite motivating to think that if I did set aside the time and make the effort then I could reach these goals. I'm not too busy or too old or too lazy or whatever.

I tried to speak a bit of Japanese with a friend yesterday, but as expected my lack of basic vocabulary got in the way very quickly, as well as just not really knowing where to start. I can see the appeal of taking lessons based on a textbook, where you can just try to use the taught material, and that is something that iTalki tutors tend to offer. Something to think about, but for now I think self-study is going great. My foundation is just still under construction.

I saw a Korean film last night, Exhuma, that happened to have some lines of Japanese, which was nice because I otherwise didn't really get into it (although if you're into folklore/religion-inspired horror then it might be up your street). But some of the Japanese sounded strange to me, and I'm guessing based on the setting that it was old-fasioned and/or very formal. The film had dual subtitles in English and Chinese, and triple (Korean too) for the Japanese bits, so I found it interesting to look at the Chinese characters and see how many I recognised and how many had similar meanings to Japanese (spoiler: some do, some don't, what a surprise!).

Spanish

I've finally made all my travel plans. I made the tough decision of giving Asturias a miss, after thinking about what my priorities for the trip are: I want to focus on the surfing, and otherwise have a relaxing break since my last few holidays were so intense; Japan was life-changing, but I never want to do such a fast-paced trip again! I did find a very good-sounding surf hostel in Asturias, but I would've lost the best part of two days just travelling there and back and if I went there anyway I'd want to see other things in the area too, so it was just looking like too much. And the beach and surf schools near Santander also have a great reputation, at least for beginner/intermediate surfers like myself, and if I fancy a day trip then the Basque Country is quite close. Asturias will be for next time.

I do feel more motivated for Spanish. I think all my procrastination on the planning also put me off working on the language. Maybe it's time to dig out my list of Spanish films and series that I've been meaning to catch up on for years, and do some writing and self-talk. I could even pop into a meetup; surely some of these are still going.

German has very much fallen by the wayside. I'll try to do a bit. I have a strong premonition that I'll encounter some German speakers in Spain. Maybe it'll turn out like my trip to Naples where I spoke more Spanish than Italian.

[golyplot]

In my experience, study consumes mental energy based on how difficult and intensive it is. For me, even 15 minutes of SRS is really draining and the same with intensive reading, whereas I can passively watch videos for long periods of time. Perhaps you're just doing less intensive study with Japanese than with other languages?

[garyb]

In my experience, study consumes mental energy based on how difficult and intensive it is. For me, even 15 minutes of SRS is really draining and the same with intensive reading, whereas I can passively watch videos for long periods of time. Perhaps you're just doing less intensive study with Japanese than with other languages?

That's the thing I'm unsure about, because I'd say that most of my Japanese study is on the intensive side. Most of my work is going through Genki and doing all the exercises in the textbook and workbook, and doing WaniKani lessons/reviews a few times per day, which is about as "active" as it gets. I am also getting some exposure through TV/films and games, but I don't count that as study (even if hearing some words I know in context is helpful) and I wasn't considering it in what I said about being able to work for a few hours. I'm focusing on building the foundation before I do any serious extensive work.

But still, I suppose it's a spectrum and I think that these Japanese resources are a bit less intensive than the courses I used for other languages like Greek and Russian that had crazy-steep learning curves and moved very fast. I find the pacing of Genki very good, not too fast or too slow, and I've mostly got the hang of managing my WaniKani workload by taking on fewer new lessons in times when the reviews are feeling harder.

[gsbod]

I can see that studying Japanese could easily become a full-time job (like it is for some of the N1-in-two-years Redditors...) because there's just always more you could do. Interestingly I found with other "hard" language that I attempted in the past, like Greek and Russian, I seemed to get to a point after an hour or so where my brain just couldn't take in any more for the day and I had to stop, even if I was motivated enough to continue. Yet for Japanese I've rarely felt at that point, and when I have it's been after a good few hours of study. I'm not sure why it's different: do I just like the language more, or am I now better at varying my activities rather than doing all intensive all the time, or are the materials themselves better-paced (I remember with Russian that the Penguin course and even Pimsleur were very arduous!), or am I a better language learner in general now? Who knows.

Well of course you are a better language learner now!

But I also think that it's a case of what makes those other languages hard compared to Japanese. Beginner's Japanese grammar is really not that bad. No noun classes to worry about, plural formation practically non-existant, verbs are very regular, not many tenses to learn, no need to decline nouns or adjectives, conjugating adjectives is interesting but again, very regular. While something like Russian, Greek or German requires you to apply quite a lot of knowledge in one go to make a simple grammatically correct sentence, Japanese is surprisingly straightforward. The more difficult aspects of grammar don't really bite until you get to the intermediate level. And then the two other difficult aspects (kanji and vocabulary) are also a much bigger barrier at the intermediate level than beginner level.

Not that I'm trying to put you off! You're doing well progressing through Genki anyway. Keep it up, build a good foundation, and then you can take your time enjoying the "long" intermediate phase of Japanese!

[garyb]

Well of course you are a better language learner now!

But I also think that it's a case of what makes those other languages hard compared to Japanese. Beginner's Japanese grammar is really not that bad. No noun classes to worry about, plural formation practically non-existant, verbs are very regular, not many tenses to learn, no need to decline nouns or adjectives, conjugating adjectives is interesting but again, very regular. While something like Russian, Greek or German requires you to apply quite a lot of knowledge in one go to make a simple grammatically correct sentence, Japanese is surprisingly straightforward. The more difficult aspects of grammar don't really bite until you get to the intermediate level. And then the two other difficult aspects (kanji and vocabulary) are also a much bigger barrier at the intermediate level than beginner level.

Not that I'm trying to put you off! You're doing well progressing through Genki anyway. Keep it up, build a good foundation, and then you can take your time enjoying the "long" intermediate phase of Japanese!

That all makes a lot of sense! With Japanese it feels like there's so much to learn as a beginner, yet it's never really arduous so it's more just about making the time to get through it all than making a big mental effort. The grammar is simple and logical enough, even if different from what I'm used to, and the words don't take too long to stick. But by all accounts, the intermediate stage is long and rough.