Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, German, Japanese, bits of French)

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tastyonions
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby tastyonions » Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:09 am

As far as Greek goes, I also have a Teach Yourself course from the 2010s that I picked up from a used bookstore. I look through it from time to time and it definitely seems more “practical” than the first few weeks of Assimil have been.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby garyb » Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:52 pm

tastyonions wrote:Portuguese is awesome and should go smoothly for you with your other Romance languages. Would you go for BR-PT or PT-PT?

I’ve met lots of Americans learning Portuguese and I’m the only one who went for the PT variety, heh.
I'd go for PT too, mostly just because Portugal is much closer to me and I've visited it so already had some exposure (although of course there are plenty of Brazilians in Portugal too) and I'm planning to go back this year. Similar reason for choosing European Spanish, although I also knew lots of Spanish speakers in the past and almost all were from Spain so the choice was even more obvious. I don't know many Portuguese-speakers of either sort although I do hear both now and again when I'm around town or travelling.

tastyonions wrote:As far as Greek goes, I also have a Teach Yourself course from the 2010s that I picked up from a used bookstore. I look through it from time to time and it definitely seems more “practical” than the first few weeks of Assimil have been.
I did imagine that one of the more "traditional" courses like Teach Yourself might be a good choice! They're the type of courses I've always overlooked for FIGS, not because they seem bad as such but just because there are even better options (or at least, more commonly recommended on here!) but for less mainstream languages they might be the best bet.

In my previous attempt I used Michel Thomas (very good but barely scratched the surface), Language Transfer (started off well but got hard to follow and I quickly forgot most of it), GreekPod101 (it had a good but short Assimil-style conversational course but other than that I found it too unstructured), and gave up on Assimil after a month or so of good well-intentioned effort. Whenever I go back to it I think my plan will just be something like TY plus DuoLingo if they haven't removed all the aspects that make it useful and bearable by that point, since like German lots of repetitive practice will probably be key.

Portuguese should feel pretty easy in comparison. For a "crash course" before my trip I'll probably just work through something that teaches basic structure like MT then dive into input, and then Assimil if I decide to get more serious later on.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby garyb » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:46 pm

I'm thinking about travel plans again. Portugal and Northern Spain will potentially be in August, and I'd like to take a few weeks off in May/June and I'm considering Bavaria and Austria (perhaps Munich-Salzburg-Vienna with stops along the way) or perhaps another area in Germany (Cologne and some of the smaller university towns seem fun). That would also help me to prioritise my study plans nicely.

Realistically though, I don't see my German level improving significantly in the next couple of months even if I do up the effort a little (and a little is the most I can really manage, since job-hunting and prep for it is still a priority, and that might also interfere with travel plans), and I don't expect to be anywhere near conversational. But still, some understanding will be great, it'll be nice to try out using what I do know even if I'll almost certainly be answered in English, and I might even surprise myself with what comes out with the help of some immersion to join the dots in what I've learnt so far. As long as I approach it the same way I have with other recent travel, where language use would just be a nice extra rather than a main purpose of the trip, it's all good.

I've also taken a week off now because I'm stressed and need a break, so I'm doing a bit more study and input, but con calma as one of my favourite Italian expressions goes. Yesterday I ended up watching some YouTube videos about stoic philosophy, which seems like something that would suit me and put a bit more weight behind all the ideas of doing less, taking things more slowly, and not worrying about things that are outside my control. All huge challenges for me, but it might be what I need.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby garyb » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:50 pm

I've got Covid, round 2, so have been forced to slow down a bit. Been doing some film watching and gaming; I spent much of the weekend filling in one of my many cultural gaps by playing through Half-Life 1 and 2 with Spanish audio. They have a reasonable amount of dialogue by FPS standards, so I can kid myself that it's not just pure entertainment. However I've started to feel a bit dizzy and feverish today after having thought I had got lucky with a mild case, which is limiting screen time and probably makes that type of game a very bad idea.

Anyway, I was in the office last week (unsure if that was the cause!) and the subject of languages came up in conversation so I finally mentioned to my German colleague that I'm learning German. She pretty much told me I'm wasting my time, which didn't bother me too much as it was one of the most likely responses I had expected. I could probably still convince her to give me some speaking practice but meh, I'm long past the "converse at all costs" stage of my life and at my current level it would probably just be painful for everyone involved.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby Le Baron » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:53 pm

Did you ask her why she think s it's a waste of time?
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby tastyonions » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:58 pm

In my experience most people who aren't enthusiast weirdos like us think the only good reasons to learn a language are family and money.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby garyb » Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:30 pm

Le Baron wrote:Did you ask her why she think s it's a waste of time?
Because "it's really hard". The implication being: too much effort for what it's worth.

I mean, I can see where she's coming from, especially since I've questioned whether my other languages have really been worth the work and for now I don't intend to take my German past intermediate level unless my situation changes and I have a real use for it. But still, I've been doing this languages thing for long enough, even if not as seriously than I once did, so I must be getting something out of it!
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby Le Baron » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:14 pm

garyb wrote:Because "it's really hard". The implication being: too much effort for what it's worth.

I mean, I can see where she's coming from, especially since I've questioned whether my other languages have really been worth the work and for now I don't intend to take my German past intermediate level unless my situation changes and I have a real use for it. But still, I've been doing this languages thing for long enough, even if not as seriously than I once did, so I must be getting something out of it!

I thought there might have been more of that 'just speak English'. It reminds me of when I went home to England for a visit just after we'd been living in Germany. Two of my brother's group of friends, when he had a barbershop in central Manchester, were German girls. One of them said the same to me: 'why?! it's impossible the grammar's too hard!'. Yet the answer was simple, I didn't want to live there and speak English. And I told her would she be content living in England and not speaking English? But of course the argument is that this is different, so I offered: France..or Italy..

Even if a learner isn't going to live in a place the language is spoken it shouldn't rule it out. They don't teach languages at school because they think every last student is going to go off to France or Germany or Spain. Yet as tastyonions says some people can't fathom that. It always has to be for family/relationships or money/career. A necessity rather than a passion!
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby garyb » Sun Apr 02, 2023 6:12 pm

I'm Covid-negative again. Still quite worn out, but starting to get back into the swing of things. I mostly managed to keep up with DuoLingo, watch a bit of Tatort and Easy German, and the aforementioned Spanish-audio gaming, but wasn't up to anything more mentally taxing like real study until the last couple of days when I've got back into Spektrum.

Also looking into travel again. Visiting Bavaria and/or Austria is looking a bit more expensive than I had thought, but should be worth it! I could go sooner to save some money, but I'm still keen on late spring or early summer to make the most of outdoor activities and outdoor beer drinking. And on the plus side, I also have more annual leave than I had thought so I can manage a decent, non-rushed trip.

I watched an Italian film that had been on my list for a while, Indagine su un cittadino al di sopra di ogni sospetto, and I'm still slowly reading Il problema dei tre corpi.

In Spanish, I saw Cerdita (Piggy) after hearing my horror-loving friends mention it a few times, which I liked but found a bit hard to follow without subtitles as the dialogue was very colloquial and often emotional. It reminded me of my previous intention to seek out more challenging material instead of just staying in the podcast comfort zone, although on that front I have been catching up with Futuro Abierto. Colloquial Spanish can just be damn hard. But especially with my travel plans (including Spain, but if my last trip to Italy is anything to go by then I'll probably hear it everywhere else too) it's an effort worth making.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French, and now German!)

Postby garyb » Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:04 am

I've kept up the studying, watched a couple of films (most recently the 2020 Berlin Alexanderplatz, which was long but very good and now I want to check out the famous TV series based on the same book), and... oh yeah, started booking my trip!

I'm going away in mid-May and the plan is a few days in Vienna at the start, a few days in Munich at the end, and some places in between, most likely with Salzburg as a base and visiting some of the nearby lakes.

As usual for me, it's primarily a trip to see some places I've been keen to explore for a long time, rather than a language-learning one; if German practice were the main goal I'd have stuck to Germany and gone to slightly less touristy places, and a trip like that might well be very worthwhile once my level is higher. But the Easy German crew also happen to have just been in Vienna and I've just watched a video from there, and most of the Austrian accents didn't seem too challenging. Some differences in vowels and prosody, but I could get used to it quickly enough.

My preparation plan is just to do a bit more of what I'm already doing, but perhaps with a bit more focus on listening comprehension and vocabulary and less on grammar. There's no way my speaking is going to significantly improve in a month, and pursuing accuracy feels a little pointless when much larger obstacles are likely to be not understanding people and not knowing words. So more input, and more attention on that input and less relying on subtitles out of laziness.

I'll keep up the textbook work because I like the holistic approach and it just keeps my studies moving along in general, but won't spend too much time or energy on the material that is more relevant to living in German-speaking countries than visiting them.

I might even be tempted to go to one of those German meetups or try again with my colleague, now that I have the justification of an upcoming trip.

Life and work have been calming down a lot after the intense and stressful first few months of the year, and I'm finally feeling like I have some time and energy to spare for projects like learning German as well as my work and music studies. It also feels as if the current chapter in my life is coming to an end, which sounds a little pretentious but I can't think of a better metaphor. Events at work have meant that I'm now no longer leading a team or a project and I have much less responsibility, which is bit of a step backwards career-wise but really that space is exactly what I needed at this time and means I don't feel as tied to the job anymore, as well as reminding me that there's more to life than work and being too career-focused just seems against my nature. My band split up, my latest attempt at having a relationship didn't work out, I've finished with or avoided other commitments; it generally feels like things have run their course for now and it's time to think about the next chapter.

This all means that I could be open to a big move again. I have mentioned this numerous times in the last few years since coming very close to making one, but until now I've had commitments and reasons not to do it. I'd consider mainland Europe again, especially now that career and money are seeming less important, but I've also been thinking about spending a bit of time in Australia. I have a good friend there and was planning to just visit sooner or later, but they suggested that I might as well stay longer to see it properly and find some temporary work since it's so big and far away and expensive. Less interesting from the linguistic point of view, of course, but I'm sure places like Melbourne have plenty speakers of my languages.

Of course that's all just ideas for now, and my tendency is very much to daydream but not take action, so as usual don't hold your breath!
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