Carmody's Log for French

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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Carmody » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:50 pm

My log for January

To start with, a big thank you to LeBaron and everyone for their guidance and sharing of ideas on the topic of listening. I am really grateful.

My time spent this past month was spent doing as follows:
Time spent reading:....25 hrs
Time spent listening:...39 hrs
Total time:………………...64 hrs

Sources used for reading:
-Vichy, un passé qui ne passe pas by Conan, Rousso
A painful but necessary book to read to help me understand Vichy.

-Bien-dire (intermediate to advanced levels)
A paid subscription that is well worth the money. My thanks to Peter Mollenberg for this.

Sources for French listening on YouTube:
Les Films de Saint Amant
alice ayel
Radioscopie
homelanguage
innerFrench
Ted Talks
Musée du Louvre
Culture Tube
Accros_au_Français
Dix Pour Cent
Français avec Pierre
wocomoWILDLIFE
Passe moi les jumelles


In summary:
• Importance of listening material being both interesting and comprehensible input!
• Alice Ayel with her le pause cafe series was and is invaluable.
• The Netflix film Dix Pour Cent is a movie where the French is totally unintelligible to me. I wonder if anyone else understands it.

Finally, if anyone wants to make any suggestions on the above, please feel free to do so. This whole arena of listening to French is like learning a new language. So feel free to make your comments.

I don't know if I will be able to make it to 100 hrs. of listening but I will give it a try.
7 x

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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Carmody » Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:23 pm

I am working away at my French input and in particular on one video I would like to share with people. Their work always has a poetic resonance to it but then again I guess that is in the eye of the beholder.

It is from the Passe-moi les jumelles website.
https://www.youtube.com/c/Passemoilesjumelles

I will of course send in my hourly totals at the end of the month but thought people might wish to see the following selection in the meantime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTQgmKOBLIM
2 x

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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
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Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Carmody » Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:13 pm

My log for February

Just a reminder to people that I have set a challenge for myself on Oral Input of 50-100 hours. This in hopes that I can make some head way in my Oral comprehension.

My time this past month was spent doing as follows:

Time spent reading:....16
Time spent listening:...31
Total time:………………...47 hrs

Sources used for reading this month:

Une vie de Simone Veil. A painful but necessary book to read to help me understand Vichy and the Holocaust. See my review of the book on the French Book Reading Resources thread.

Sources for French listening that I found on YouTube in February were:
innerFrench
Dans les yeux d'Olivier
Elsa Media
Français avec Pierre
alice ayel
Passe moi les jumelles
L'AUTONOMIE PAYSANNE
Home Language
French by Alex
Comme une Française
imineo Documentaires
Français avec Pierre
Notre Histoire
innerFrench
French mornings with Elisabeth
imineo Documentaires
Passe moi les jumelles
Bruno Maltor
Alice Esmeralda
Learn French with Elisabeth - HelloFrench
Les Films de Saint Amant
Passe moi les jumelles
Destins
Les Films de Saint Amant
Passe moi les jumelles
imineo Documentaires
Toute L'Histoire
L'ombre d'un doute
Enquêtes et Reportages
Comme une Française

In summary:
I am logging in the hours but the actual progress in picking up really understanding people when speaking is painfully slow. My progress gives a whole new meaning to the term at a glacial pace. Maybe it will never come. I never met Sisyphus personally but I sure now how he felt. Yes I can understand Emmanuel Macron, but he doesn’t count. He speaks slowly, clearly and uses standard French. I need to understand how real people speak when they speak at speed.

Finally, if anyone wants to make any suggestions on the above, please feel free to do so. This whole arena of listening to French is like learning a new language. So feel free to make your comments.
5 x

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Carmody
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Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Carmody » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:48 pm

I am interested in learning the French language of 20th and 21st century. To do so I am reading the books and doing oral input towards that end. Doing oral input by listening to people like Emmanuel Macron deliver speeches would seem to me to be cheating. He is speaking in an official register but I want to listen to everyday people speak.

I listen to many different sources of oral input but what follows is one that I have listened to about four times now and from which I still have much to learn re: rhythm, timbre, vocabulary, idioms and much more. You may find it of interest.

RENCONTRE AVEC LES GAGNANTS DU LOTO

1 x

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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:18 pm

A number of interesting topics show up in the Youtube sidebar of this. Thanks for a good source.
0 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Location: NYC, NY
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French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Carmody » Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:49 am

My log for March

Just a reminder to people that I have set a challenge for myself on Oral Input of 50-100 hours. This in hopes that I can make some head way in my Oral comprehension.

Review of past performance:
March……………….………….Hrs.
Time spent reading:......24
Time spent listening:.....60
Total time:……………….....84 hrs

Feb:
Time spent reading:....16
Time spent listening:...31
Total time:………………...47 hrs

Jan:
Time spent reading:....25 hrs
Time spent listening:...39 hrs
Total time:………………...64 hrs
Total time spent on Oral input for last 3 months: 130 hours

Sources for French listening that I found on YouTube in March were:
Passe moi les jumelles
Enquêtes et Reportages
Home Language
Comme une Française
alice ayel
Investigations et Enquêtes
French mornings with Elisa
radiofrance
TERRA MIRABILIS
Français avec Pierre
Home Language
Français Authentique
TEDx Talks
imineo Documentaires
French Today
inner French
litteratureaudio

Sources for reading were:
Magazine: Bien Dire: always an excellent source and worth the money for me.
Book: Au Bon Beurre: by J. Dutourd

In summary:
I continued to log in the hours but the actual progress in really understanding people when speaking is painfully sloooow…..I think if I am seeing progress I see it in terms of “island hopping” a term I just created which explains how I hear what is said. That is, my “islands” of understanding in the dialogue are getting more frequent and the “islands” are getting larger.

One thing I have learned is that I do have to up the number of hours of oral input if I am going to make progress.

Finally, since I hit and exceeded my 100 hour challenge, I will not be doing anymore posting of logging of hours. However, I will just keep doing the input of hours and hope that my frequency of finding bigger “islands” more frequently increases with time.

Thanks for following.
2 x

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lusan
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby lusan » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:25 am

Carmody wrote:I am interested in learning..............

I listen to many different sources of oral input but what follows is one that I have listened to about four times now and from which I still have much to learn re: rhythm, timbre, vocabulary, idioms and much more. You may find it of interest.

RENCONTRE AVEC LES GAGNANTS DU LOTO



this is so american and funny... jajaja.... though I never buy the lotto... :lol:

Agree Macron is too easy....likewise the France 24 news...-though Franceinfo TJ is a little harder.... but normal people pronunciation is hard because their poor/unclear pronunciations.... guess what, I even put subtitles when I watch Spanish films... so no guilt... the same problem.... unclear pronuncia...
3 x
Italian, polish, and French dance
FSI Basic French Lessons : 10 / 24 17 of 24 goal

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Le Baron
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Le Baron » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:53 pm

lusan wrote:Agree Macron is too easy....likewise the France 24 news...-though Franceinfo TJ is a little harder.... but normal people pronunciation is hard because their poor/unclear pronunciations.... guess what, I even put subtitles when I watch Spanish films... so no guilt... the same problem.... unclear pronuncia...


Macron isn't always easy, he uses unusual vocabulary sometimes, but he is clear. I would also have said that France24 has some newsreaders who also have awful delivery, what you referred to as poor/unclear pronunciations.

I totally agree about the sometime need for subtitles for even native language media these days. I started using subtitles to watch drama on the BBC a few years ago because I couldn't hear what the mumblers were saying. Looking back on it I imagine now that if any people learning English were also watching it and despairing about not being able to understand it, they were overestimating just how intelligible it is even for native speakers.

I think what happens when you're a native speaker or a long-term speaker of a language is that you deeply internalise sound patterns and shapes, more than just words. This is how you're able to listen with only 50% attention. And yet this is also not foolproof, as we know from misunderstandings (did he just say 'tickle your arse with a feather?!' No, he said 'typical Manchester weather!').

There's also register and subject knowledge to consider. I recall sitting with my father watching what you might call a 'thoughtful' film. the sort made by an 'auteur'. We stopped it halfway through to make some grub and he said: 'I have no idea what's going on in this film'. And in some way I couldn't fathom some of it either, so it wasn't a language fail, but a subject/subtext comprehension fail.
4 x

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Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby Carmody » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:34 am

This has already been posted elsewhere but just for the record:

Just a brief mention that I am on hiatus due to selling of a house in NY and moving to Pennsylvania :) . Since I am someone who needs structure in my life so I can study French, I have put my French studies on hold until Sept. 1. By that time I will hopefully be settled in enough to get on with my French. I have not forgotten about my French!

I never knew selling and moving could be so disruptive.

enjoy.
3 x

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PeterMollenburg
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Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
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Re: Carmody's Log for French

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:58 am

Le Baron wrote:
lusan wrote:Agree Macron is too easy....likewise the France 24 news...-though Franceinfo TJ is a little harder.... but normal people pronunciation is hard because their poor/unclear pronunciations.... guess what, I even put subtitles when I watch Spanish films... so no guilt... the same problem.... unclear pronuncia...


Macron isn't always easy, he uses unusual vocabulary sometimes, but he is clear. I would also have said that France24 has some newsreaders who also have awful delivery, what you referred to as poor/unclear pronunciations.

I totally agree about the sometime need for subtitles for even native language media these days. I started using subtitles to watch drama on the BBC a few years ago because I couldn't hear what the mumblers were saying. Looking back on it I imagine now that if any people learning English were also watching it and despairing about not being able to understand it, they were overestimating just how intelligible it is even for native speakers.

I think what happens when you're a native speaker or a long-term speaker of a language is that you deeply internalise sound patterns and shapes, more than just words. This is how you're able to listen with only 50% attention. And yet this is also not foolproof, as we know from misunderstandings (did he just say 'tickle your arse with a feather?!' No, he said 'typical Manchester weather!').

There's also register and subject knowledge to consider. I recall sitting with my father watching what you might call a 'thoughtful' film. the sort made by an 'auteur'. We stopped it halfway through to make some grub and he said: 'I have no idea what's going on in this film'. And in some way I couldn't fathom some of it either, so it wasn't a language fail, but a subject/subtext comprehension fail.


You could put this whole post in bold from my perspective it's so true, and so relevant to language learners too!
3 x


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