Rdearman 2016/17/18/19/20 [If it ain't broke, don't fix it.]

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rdearman
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby rdearman » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:14 pm

I'm thinking about doing a little experiment this year. Because I'm working away from home for the next 12 months, I have ample opportunity to watch television shows in my hotel room. My wife is obviously not interested in watching French or Italian television or films without subtitles. When I'm away I do have the evenings to watch whatever I want. I've done some calculations and think I could probably watch 4.5 hours 4 nights a week. Also I have a 4 hour drive there and back again. So I believe that it is easily possible for me to watch 800 hours of Italian television or listen to audio books.

So I've worked out that there is 42 weeks until Christmas. If during this time I spent the evenings in the hotel watching Italian television and listening to audiobooks in my car then I could easily go over 800 hours. I'm targeting 800 hours because that has come up recently in a thread as the threshold for a listening comprehension.

I'm thinking that this will probably be extensive listening not intensive listening. And the reason that I have selected Italian rather than French is because I have literally hundreds of AVI files in Italian with no subtitles. With French it is a little too easy to switch over and read subtitles.

Now I realise there's a drawback with this which is that I'm not speaking writing or Reading. Which means I'm going to have issues with vocabulary. But time is a problem for me because if I take out an hour or two to read then I wouldn't hit the 800 hour target.

So before I commence on this little experiment I would like to try and gather some advice. Do you think I should try to do 600 hours of TV and 200 hours of Reading for example? Or do reading and television 50/50? If you had this idea and these constraints what would you do?
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby gsbod » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:43 pm

I don't think you'll need 800 hours.

If it was me, I would aim for about 1.5 hours of TV a night and if I'm not too tired a bit of vocabulary or grammar study. Also some repeated listening and repeating with short excerpts where I have transcripts, which I use to make sure that I understand everything. The TV listening is extensive, but occasionally if the plot seems to hang on a word that I can't figure out I'll look it up. That's basically how I learned to follow Japanese TV dramas, building on the foundation I already had through "traditional" textbook study etc.
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:02 pm

If I was doing that type of undertaking I’d try to stack in mostly massive listening as an experiment and I’d throw in some advanced learning material like Assimil Perfectionnement or sound-only Anki cards to try to stay in an active listening mode. Personally I probably couldn't effectively listen for 4+ hrs every night / 4 days /for a year. Commit to 6 weeks, see what’s up.
I’d spend a lot of time selecting material that was “hard but not too hard” for this and try to go from 60-70% subtitles in L1 to some scheme of subtitles in L2 to then none ... mixed thoughts about subtitles but a big factor is to reduce the level of frustration you are currently experiencing...
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby StringerBell » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:14 pm

My suggestion is instead of spending that whole time watching 4.5 hours of TV in Italian, reduce that a bit and substitute some reading. Even if it's only half an hour, I think it will make a difference. You could do the listening extensively, and the reading intensively.

And if you are more interested in getting a decent level of conversational Italian, I'd focus more on listening to podcasts in the car instead of audiobooks, and I'd spend the reading allotment on articles, not novels...basically, not focusing on literary stuff that's heavy on passato remoto in the narration, something that is written closer to how people speak. You probably already know that I am a big fan of the articles on Efficacemente for this purpose, but it could be any kind of blog that interests you. It could even be Twitter feeds or Instagram posts in Italian. This is what I did, and it worked really well. If you want some podcast recommendations, let me know.
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby Brun Ugle » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:51 pm

I think you’ll do anything to get out of a few hours of actual study.
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby rdearman » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:36 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:I think you’ll do anything to get out of a few hours of actual study.

sshhhh. :oops:
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:24 am

DaveAgain wrote:
rdearman wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:I should add that TVMonde thinks my overall level of French is borderline A2-B1. My understanding of just spoken French is probably B1-B2.

It measures your ability?
They have a mock TCF test on their website.

Their test gives a very rough ballpark figure of your progress. It grossly overestimates my ability to speak and write, but grossly underestimates my ability to read. It's probably on the mark about my listening ability.
I could go on to give you my advice about the 600-800 hours of listening, but I've never got to where I can understand video without subtitles or transcripts myself, and I am in the same funk, perhaps not quite so blue, as you are, so what do I know?
A number of members of this forum are fluent in one second language at least, and a few in a lot more than that. A direct appeal to them might be in order, and maybe a poll, too.
Just how many hours of listening did it really take anyone here to learn an L2 to where they can watch a TV show or a movie without subtitles? And was their practice all extensive, all intensive, or a mix?
Finally, what about using using subs2srs to make ANKI flash cards? That method actually helps.
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:33 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Their test gives a very rough ballpark figure of your progress. It grossly overestimates my ability to speak and write, but grossly underestimates my ability to read. It's probably on the mark about my listening ability.
I could go on to give you my advice about the 600-800 hours of listening, but I've never got to where I can understand video without subtitles or transcripts myself, and I am in the same funk, perhaps not quite so blue, as you are, so what do I know?
Isn't this just a register thing? I seem to remember you saying you could understand documentaries.
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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:51 pm

rdearman wrote:I'm thinking about doing a little experiment this year. Because I'm working away from home for the next 12 months, I have ample opportunity to watch television shows in my hotel room./.../So before I commence on this little experiment I would like to try and gather some advice. Do you think I should try to do 600 hours of TV and 200 hours of Reading for example? Or do reading and television 50/50? If you had this idea and these constraints what would you do?


Have you visited Xmmm's Italian log recently? There is some TV related content there.

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Re: Rdearman 2016/17/18/19 [Remember if we get caught, I'm deaf and you don't speak English]

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:11 am

DaveAgain wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:Their test gives a very rough ballpark figure of your progress. It grossly overestimates my ability to speak and write, but grossly underestimates my ability to read. It's probably on the mark about my listening ability.
I could go on to give you my advice about the 600-800 hours of listening, but I've never got to where I can understand video without subtitles or transcripts myself, and I am in the same funk, perhaps not quite so blue, as you are, so what do I know?
Isn't this just a register thing? I seem to remember you saying you could understand documentaries.

Good point. I understand most of the documentaries that I watch. Of course, that's self-selecting. If I don't understand, I don't watch. What makes them comprehensible or not is certainly a matter of register, and it is also related to the speaking pace as well as the enunciation of the narrator.
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