Rdearman 2016-24 You Can't Have Your Kate and Edith Too.

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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby Adrianslont » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:01 pm

Serafín wrote:
DaveBee wrote:I was watching a Polyglot Conference speech earlier: Sounding Like a Native Speaker – Myths and Reality.

He spoke about re-training yourself to notice sounds that are meaningless in your native language, by paying close attention (14m40s into video). Tarvos' transcription suggestion sounds like a good exercise for that.

An expensive movie produced by a studio doesn't usually have much or any false starts, repetition, fillers, anacolutha, etc. though...

This is also true of cheap movies and TV shows. And the grammar of scripted movies/tv differs from unscripted real life, too.

Still, movies and tv shows provide good listening practice.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby rdearman » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:34 pm

Well, thought I would give a slightly more positive update than the last one. (But only slightly).

I've purchased a new Kindle reader. I have a Kindle fire, but actually it is heavy and although it has more functionality I like this new (much cheaper) version. I have to read in the light, but that isn't a problem. I keep the Kindle fire beside the bed in case I want to read with the lights off. The reason for this is to just get myself back on to the reading wagon. I've bought a couple of SciFi & Fantasy books recommended by emk & casava in various places, as well as loading up some of the classics (Verne, etc) which I want to read. At the moment I'm working my way through Le Déchronologue and I'm about a 1/4 of the way through.

I'm being very religious about doing my anki cards and making sure I never miss a day. I have on occasion not managed all the cards in every deck, but I do at least 30 minutes each day. For awhile I was getting between 500-1000 cards per day, but I've always kept the amount of new cards below 25. Now the card numbers are spread out a lot more and I'm only getting 200-400 cards per day, so I think I'll increase the amount of new cards to 30-40 for a month or so.

I'm trying to listen intensively to podcasts and the radio, etc in order to train my ear better with French, and finally I've been trying to do more talking with people via skype or hellotalk.

Inspector Montalbano has come on the BBC recently, and I haven't seen these ones! So I may get derailed every so slightly for 5-6 episodes of Italian for a little while, but it will be a nice quick detour and isn't stopping the French.

I've become very burned out on all things Star Trek related after doing so many hours of it, so I gave that a rest and opted for Defenders dubbed in French. I did all of those so now I'm on the lookout for something different on Netflix I can use to relax and French out.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby iguanamon » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:40 pm

rdearman wrote:...I've purchased a new Kindle reader. I have a Kindle fire, but actually it is heavy and although it has more functionality I like this new (much cheaper) version. I have to read in the light, but that isn't a problem. I keep the Kindle fire beside the bed in case I want to read with the lights off. ...

Of course you can use a clip-on Kindle reading light or the solar rechargeable variety that I use.

Just a thought.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby rdearman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:14 pm

iguanamon wrote:
rdearman wrote:...I've purchased a new Kindle reader. I have a Kindle fire, but actually it is heavy and although it has more functionality I like this new (much cheaper) version. I have to read in the light, but that isn't a problem. I keep the Kindle fire beside the bed in case I want to read with the lights off. ...

Of course you can use a clip-on Kindle reading light or the solar rechargeable variety that I use.

Just a thought.

:)

I was just looking at those!
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby rdearman » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:12 pm

ok. Think I'll have a bit of a ramble. I've been using HelloTalk which I ranted about before, it crashed again. :roll: I'm still watching tons of TV and listening to podcasts. I'm only one film away from the 200 mark on the SC. Reading one of the threads about the ALG(?) method where you listen for 800 hours before doing anything else got me thinking about my French timesink and that is only 300 hours. I've been reading a book in French semi-intensively. I look up words when I don't know but if I don't have an Internet connection I just guess and breeze through. I've only made it to like page 69 of 389 so this looking stuff up all the time is getting a little frustrating. I like my new Kindle gizmo, but something I find frustrating is that although it is light, unlike an actual book, you cannot just stick your thumb in the crease and hold it up and read, you have to hold on to the slightly slippery plastic. I am plowing away at the Anki decks and I've upped the number of new cards so that now I'm getting 50 new cards per day instead of the 25 I was doing previously. This hasn't yet made any impact on the amount of time I need to invest, it is still less than an hour. I've made a rather arbitrary rule that if the Anki thing starts taking me more than an hour, then I'll scale back on reviews and new cards so it comes out to less.

I watched some Steve Kaufman videos which were interviews with people at LangFest and one of them he (or the guest can't remember) said tests are a bit useless because you should be able to know yourself how well you're doing, or how much you've improved. Now I have stated that I want to take the DELF because I want to know what level I'm at. But of course this is a rather arbitrary standard, however it is a standard!

I spent a bit of time thinking about this (because I only have little bits of time these days) and how I feel my French is coming along. I suppose the only response is "slowly but surely". Not progressing as fast as I'd like, but I think I've probably improved some. Certainly my understanding of numbers has increased. Not perfect, but I drill numbers each day with anki and I'm getting better at recognising them when they come up. I'm still very unhappy about my listening comprehension, but I do listen everyday and try to understand as much as I can. I haven't done intensive listening exercises, although I know I should. I plan to, but never seem to get around to it. (bit like marathon training, still haven't started that back up). I am better at recognising the Anki cards I have with audio, and I've improved my shadowing.

Output in French is almost non-existant. Arnaud wrote something in the French Study Group that it is better to just write 2 correct sentences everyday than to do nothing. I have been trying to follow this policy by writing to French people in the HelloTalk app, even if they don't reply, the app crashes, or some other equally annoying thing happens. This however hasn't allowed me to get corrections and I keep thinking I really need a penal. Not a conversation partner or Skype exchange, but just someone to write emails back and forth! I do have at least 3 French native speakers as Facebook friends, simply because I worked for a French company at one point. I have started to write to them only in French. Of course I didn't get any corrections, and they always reply in English, but the point really is for me to make the effort to formulate sentences in French. I'll worry about corrections later, either that or they'll get so bloody annoyed with my poor French they will correct me.

I also looked at language classes in France, but these are way out of my price range, so I gave that idea a miss.

On a side note I watched a couple of episodes of Inspector Montalbano which I hadn't seen before, and it was a real pleasure to watch something that wasn't in French. :) I'm more of less expended all the Netflix shows in French that I like, and I'm now watching anything which is in French, including sports documentaries. (*Shudder*) I've returned to watching various Star Trek shows. I'm only a couple of episodes away from watching all of Enterprise, and about 1/2 of the Star Trek NG set. This is like 11-12 series to give some context. I've watched all the Defenders, plus Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Daredevil in French too. I have also got about halfway through two really poor movies in French which I watch 15 or 20 minutes of until I cannot stand it anymore and switch to something else. I still want to get to the end of them, but I'm not watching them for pleasure, only for the language.

I have been toying with the idea of breaking out a smallwhite spreadsheet and cramming vocabulary and try to ram 1500 words a day into my tiny little mind. The D&D and Cooking decks I've made are really very cool, but the problem is that because I'm only feeding these words to me at a rate of 40-50 per day it isn't really expanding my vocabulary as quickly as I need. In addition the reading doesn't work as fast, especially as I'm only doing semi-extensive reading. I know people say that if you cram then most of them will be lost as soon as you stop, but in reality you'd probably retain 5-10% at least, and if you've crammed say 200,000 words then you'll still have retained 10,000 - 20,000 words. I'm just trying with this idea but since I know I'm really to lazy to do this regularly it probably isn't going to happen. It would take 4-5 months to cram that many words at 1500 per day. But some type of cramming might be useful, so perhaps just using the two sets of words I've already got in a spreadsheet with IPA would help.

Looking back at previous posts by people who are better at this than me:
"... importing 5,000 to 15,000 new words into your brain in 500 to 1,500 hours turns out to be THE major battlefield in language learning, representing 80 percent and more of your total effort."

I can see that I'm falling far short of the targets I should be setting for myself for listening. I've managed about 300 hours (non-continous) in French, but I need to ramp that up considerably. At the moment I'm averaging around 2 hours of French each day call it an hour of podcasts so straightforward listening and an hour of TV (with some cheating using French sub-titles). In order to get to 1500 hours I am 1200 short. I'd like to get that done in 6 months, so that is 200 hours a month, or 6 hours per day. I don't think I could manage that, but I could probably get in 4 hours per day, just doubling what I'm already doing. I have an 3 hour commute most weekdays, and an hour at home to watch TV. But this really eats into reading time, or study of anki reviews.

So if you've managed to stick with me through this long ramble, you can see that I'm still struggling with French, still find Italian easier and still have problems with HelloTalk. All else is commentary.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby DaveBee » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:33 am

rdearman wrote:I'm still very unhappy about my listening comprehension, but I do listen everyday and try to understand as much as I can. I haven't done intensive listening exercises, although I know I should. I plan to, but never seem to get around to it. (bit like marathon training, still haven't started that back up). I am better at recognising the Anki cards I have with audio, and I've improved my shadowing.
I seem to find my understanding is a lot better with documentaries than fiction. I don't know why.
On a side note I watched a couple of episodes of Inspector Montalbano which I hadn't seen before, and it was a real pleasure to watch something that wasn't in French. :) I'm more of less expended all the Netflix shows in French that I like, and I'm now watching anything which is in French, including sports documentaries. (*Shudder*) I've returned to watching various Star Trek shows. I'm only a couple of episodes away from watching all of Enterprise, and about 1/2 of the Star Trek NG set. This is like 11-12 series to give some context. I've watched all the Defenders, plus Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Daredevil in French too. I have also got about halfway through two really poor movies in French which I watch 15 or 20 minutes of until I cannot stand it anymore and switch to something else. I still want to get to the end of them, but I'm not watching them for pleasure, only for the language.
1. You can get round Arte.tv/fr IP blocking with Firefox and the Modify Headers extension. It's not perfect, but it provides a stream of new things to watch. I like their history documentaries.

2. I was watching a video on YouTube yesterday which linked back to a website called Canal-U.tv in the description. This appears to be some kind of public education website.

3. Channel 4 have some french telly on their website (with english subs). Mafiosa occasionally has bits of Corsican, which sounds like italian to me.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby rdearman » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:33 pm

Bonjour à tous! J'ai essayé d'écrire en français chaque jour avec mon ami sur Facebook.

It has been a useful exercise, because although I have only written a few sentences to each of my French speaking friends a couple have written back in French and given me corrections. The benefit of this exercise for me as well is I don't need to bother with the "hello, my name is" rubbish, since we already know each other and are friends. So I get to write sentences like:
J'ai vu les photos du premier anniversaire de votre fille. Elle est très mignonne!

These are much more difficult sentences and are really pushing me outside my comfort zone. The replies are equally difficult because they speak about what is happening in their lives, new jobs, children, schools, vacations they took, etc.

I've also been using http://otranscribe.com/ to do some transcription in order to force me to actually listen and write down each and every word I hear. This is really bloody hard!!! This exercise in transcription and writing to my friends highlights how poorly I spell in French. Although I could probably say the sentence, I can't actually spell most of the words which I could say. I've only done this twice so far, and I have a problem because I don't have a transcription of the things I'm listening to, so the link Speakeasy gave for more dictées is very useful. I did do a similar exercise a long time ago with a small clip from a movie, but again it is hard to check unless you have a transcription to compare with.

I completed 200 films in French, and not only have I now caught up with Brun Ugle, I have passed her. bwahahahahaha... Mainly because I've read more books, but she has still watched more films than me. Not for long though at the rate I'm burning through them. Back when I thought about doing a double-challenge in French & Italian I didn't think I would be able to, but I've done over 100 films in Italian and 200 in French. Reading is a problem, there just doesn't seem anyway for me to get from 64 books in French to 200 by the time the SC ends in December. But I'm going to have a go!

DaveBee wrote:I seem to find my understanding is a lot better with documentaries than fiction.

I might need to mix it up a little as you point out.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby Arnaud » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:53 pm

The dictée and the transcription are not the same thing: The dictée is specifically said slowly, usually each sentence is repeated several times, and the text contains little grammatical traps to test the knowledge of the students. The transcription is to write the text of any speech or dialog, etc.
It's not the same competence: the transcript can be difficult if the speaker doesn't articulate, speaks fast or if there are background noises.
YOu can choose any show with precise CC or subtitles and turn them off to make a transcription. Then turn them on to check the transcription.
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby rdearman » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:34 pm

Arnaud wrote:The dictée and the transcription are not the same thing: The dictée is specifically said slowly, usually each sentence is repeated several times, and the text contains little grammatical traps to test the knowledge of the students. The transcription is to write the text of any speech or dialog, etc.
It's not the same competence: the transcript can be difficult if the speaker doesn't articulate, speaks fast or if there are background noises.
YOu can choose any show with precise CC or subtitles and turn them off to make a transcription. Then turn them on to check the transcription.

OK, thanks for the clarification, I understand now the difference. I haven't done any dictée in that case, I'm doing transcription. The problem is I'm using videos from my hard drive (*.mp4) files with no .srt. I'm transcribing old cartoons of Valerian & Laureline but I can't find sub-titles or transcriptions. Still just the intensive listening, and repeating bits again and again help me train the ear. Also I've watched these cartoons at least 4 times each and I've gotten the "gist" of them, but now I wanted to make sure I understand all of them. They are forty 26-minute episodes and it is something I can watch repeatedly without wanting to suicide. :)
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Re: Rdearman (FR, IT, ZH) 2016/17 - The way of the lazy fist.

Postby Arnaud » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:48 pm

rdearman wrote:I'm transcribing old cartoons of Valerian & Laureline but I can't find sub-titles or transcriptions. Still just the intensive listening, and repeating bits again and again help me train the ear. Also I've watched these cartoons at least 4 times each and I've gotten the "gist" of them, but now I wanted to make sure I understand all of them. They are forty 26-minute episodes and it is something I can watch repeatedly without wanting to suicide. :)
Okay, if you publish them somewhere, you'll surely find somebody to take a look at them ;)
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