Rdearman 2016-24 You Can't Have Your Kate and Edith Too.

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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:12 pm

So bright and early tomorrow at stupid o'clock in the morning I'm flying to Milan. Wellll... I'm flying close to Milan and then getting a bus for an hour. My flight is a gift from my daughter, but she did book it on "nickel and dime" airline. You know, the one.

"Oh, you want to book in more than 24 hours before your flight, that will be €8, per person."
"Oh, you want to get from our middle of nowhere airport to the city we said we fly to? That will be €16, one way."
"Oh, you want to pick a seat? That will be €8."
"Oh, you didn't bring a printed copy of your boarding pass, because you thought you wouldn't need paper in 2022?" That will be €55."
"Oh, your cabin luggage is larger than a pencil case? That will be €45."
"Oh, you like to be one of the first passengers to board the aircraft? That will be €14 (but we don't really do this any more, we just charge for it.)"
"Oh, your bag is heavier than a small bag of dog food. That will be €45."

I did a cost comparison with good old British Airways. Assuming I wanted to pick my seat, check some luggage and actually arrive in the city where I want to go without having to take an hour-long train/bus journey from the airport. It would have cost an extra £44 to fly BA. But saving 2 hours of messing about on trains or buses would be well worth it for me. So not everything, which is cheap, is good value for money. I can't complain, it is a gift, and I'm going to try and enjoy it.

I have a small notebook and I have set myself a goal of 10x10. Which is to say I am going to try to speak to 10 people, for at least 10 minutes, in Italian every day. This sounds easy and in fact speaking to 10 different people is easy. But speaking to them for at least 10 minutes each, that makes it a lot more difficult. Plus, speaking to 1 person for 3 hours only counts as one person for 10 minutes. The extra time is just bonus points!

For someone like Dave Prine, a 10x10 challenge is a doddle, and he could complete it before leaving the hotel breakfast bar. But for someone who is a bit more introverted like me, it will be a struggle.
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:32 pm

Bloody hell !! 04:30 start !

I haven't done that in a long time. I didn't get much sleep because I spent time worrying about things I didn't really need to worry about. But eventually got to sleep about 1 am, and the alarm kicked off at 0430 hours. So rolled out of bed and made my poor, long-suffering wife drive me to the airport. Although to be fair she was asleep at 10pm, so better rested than me.

At the airport contrary to expectations things seems to go well. There were the normal crowds of people who seemed to have never heard about airport security. One woman taking out 3-4 litres of makeup, perfume, soaps, shampoos, aftercare creams, suntan locations, toothpaste, and any other liquid or jell you can imagine. Of course, she didn't have them in a plastic bag... oh no, she had them strategically scattered between the two suitcases and the handbag she was dragging through. I walked up, pulled out the plastic bag of stuff which I'd packed at home the day before, dropped it and the laptop in the plastic bin for the X-ray machine and looked at her with disdain as I walked through the detector and immediately set it off because I'd forgotten to take off my belt. Dooh!

I did OK in the random seat lottery as well. Although I got a middle seat, it was in the emergency exit row, so I had lots of legroom. Also, the aisle seat was taken by some wisp of a girl. Although the window was a huge basketball player looking guy. He obviously paid for the extra legroom, which I got free on the lottery. I thought about spending the flight speaking to the small Italian girl next to me, but I'm not yet old enough for society to see me as a harmless old man speaking to a 14-year-old girl. Everyone would figure I'm a pedo, so I decided to simply try to sleep. Which I did manage for the most part.

I arrived at the "Milan" airport, Malpensa which is an hour's train ride away from Milan BTW. I experienced one benefit of Brexit, and one drawback from Brexit immediately. The drawback was that my money gouging telecommunications provider charges for roaming now, so I couldn't use my phone. The benefit was I didn't have to stand in the mile long queue to get my passport checked, but rather whizzed through with some English people, a couple of Chinese people and an American bloke. I looked at buying an Italian SIM, but after a brief chat with the sales woman and a look at the prices, I decided to give that a miss. I decided that I would do without Google or the Internet and find my way around the old-fashioned way. (Spoiler Alert: This is not a good plan)

I found the train easily and there was a queue so I went and ordered a ticket at the desk. This went way smoother in Italian than my first trip to Italy. Ticket in hand I went back out, and decided to ask the lady on the info desk which platform to get to Central Milan station. She told me the wrong one, and off I went. Down on the platform and looking at the train departures from platforms 1&2 I figured she must be wrong, so I double checked with the train conductor, who told me how to get over to platform 3, and that I needed to hurry if I wanted to catch the next train. I legged it over to the other platform and caught the "express train" to Milan Central. I put express in quotes because it is the slowest express train I have ever been on. The Koreans would be horrified to even call that a normal train, let alone label it express.

Having been robbed on the train from the airport in Rome, I looped my backpack straps around my legs and held on to the handle for dear life. No bugger was stealing my clothes this time! I could have had some conversations with the other passengers on the train, if my Mandarin, Farsi, and German were up to the task, but they aren't. I spent the entire time looking out the window. I have to say that the Italians have a much better quality of graffiti than we have in the UK. They do a lot more art, and murals, not just names and stencils like that Banksy wanker. I saw something which looked like a prison or a mansion being build. It was either going to keep the riff-raff in, or keep them out, one or the other.

Milano Centrale Station is beautiful!

Milano Centrale is the main train station for this major northern Italian city. It was opened in the early 1930s, replacing an older and smaller station. The imposing design of the building’s facade was intended to showcase the dominance of then-Prime Minister Mussolini's fascist regime. It's the second-largest station in Italy, behind Roma Termini.

There are 24 tracks at Centrale, with a soaring glass and metal arched roof over the platforms. There is regular daily service to cities throughout Italy, as well as international destinations in other parts of Europe. Over 320,000 people passing through the station daily.


There are a bazillion shops and restaurants in the station as well, but I decided to just get over to the hotel and drop off my bag, or check in if I could. It was at this point I needed the Internet. I had saved the route to the hotel and which bus I needed to take, but Google Maps wasn't playing in offline mode. I could take a taxi, but that seemed expensive, certainly more expensive than just turning on my phone data and paying the roaming charges. So I flipped on the data and looking at Google Maps it seemed easier to walk. It wasn't as quick, but I didn't need to switch buses or any of that business. Plus I would get to see a bit of the city on the ground. So off I went! (You were probably expecting me to get lost, but it went OK, although I am going to change my telecommunications provider to someone who doesn't charge roaming fees when I get back.)

It was further than I thought and took me almost 40 minutes to walk to the hotel, but I got there just after they opened check-in, so I was able to dump all my stuff and go back out. I decided that I would walk to the station again. I left my jacket at the hotel, because I was sweating after that first walk. The fellow on reception told me where the nearest metro station was, and I decided to walk around to it. I took a small detour first, which took me to a supermarket. While walking the streets of Milan, I am once again reminded that the preferred driving and parking course taken by Italians appears to be from the Stevie Wonder School of Driving.

I found a craft brewery and burger joint as I walked and since it was lunchtime I popped in. It was an amazing burger, but I went for a stout beer named "The Black Shit". The stout was good, but because of the super high alcohol content it kinda tasted like Guinness which someone dropped some gin into.

As I walked up to Centrale station in my t-shirt, the heavens opened, and it began to dump rain. Lucky for me, I was able to pay way over the odds for a cheap umbrella from some street vendor, but it was worth it. I went inside the station and looked around at the shops. I stopped in a bookshop and browsed, then went to the market on the side of the station. It isn't really a market, it is really just a huge collection of restaurants, cafés, panetteria, and pubs. But man the panetteria I stopped at had cannoli and OMG they looked amazing. So of course I had two, one chocolate and one pistachio nut.

Since it was early, I decided I would go have a look at the Duomo. Just because I was standing 2 metres away from the metro station which has a line which goes straight to the Duomo, you'd assume anyone with brains in a rainstorm would get on the Metro. And you would be right, someone with brains would do that. I on the other hand decided to walk. Clutching my cheap umbrella, I strode down the streets.

It is another 40-minute walk from the station to the Duomo. But I did notice that as I went further south, the city began to look a lot more up-market. I'd sort of assumed that Milan, fashion capital of the world, would look amazing and stylish, but the parts I'd been through looked very tired and rundown. But further south into the city is where the rich people holiday. The hotels look more like palaces.

I walked through one of the shopping malls, I think it is Piazza Duomo Galleria, but not 100% sure. Anyway, found a massive bookshop and spent a lot of time looking around there. I am torn about the purchase of books. Yes, it would be great to have more books in Italian, but don't I already have enough to read? Plus, not a lot of room in the backpack to bring things back. Now, if I find a second hand bookshop, well look out, because I'll probably just throw out my clothes and load up the books.

I walked out of the mall into the Piazza and had a look around the Duomo. They were not letting tourists into the Duomo, or if they were I couldn't find out how to get in. So I settled for just some photos. After a swift look around the piazza and some selfies, I decided that I wouldn't walk back and take the metro instead. Honesty, what dipstick designed this metro? The placards which tell you where this line goes, is on the other side of the barrier! So I had to run my ticket through, get to the other side, look at where this train went, then go back through the turnstiles to the next train. Perhaps there is a better way to tell? In the end, I asked at a booth and made someone explain it all too me.

Travelling on an Italian metro is nothing like travelling in London. People shouting, talking over each other, one guy playing some really, really loud techno-african music, while some other guy at the other end of the carrage was playing Vivaldi on a violin. On the tubes in London, one does not speak or look at other people. You speak only in whispers to the people you are with. The only exception to this rule is the tossers in suits shouting down their telephones.

I got off at my stop and as I was walking up to the stairs saw this massive pool of blood. It was literally a puddle, and we all stepped around it. Then around the corner I came to a vending machine which had been smashed open, and broken glass all over. Along with a trail of blood from the machine to the puddle round the corner. Obviously, someone paid a very high price for a chocolate bar.

I walked back to my hotel after stopping at the supermarket and getting some iced-tea to drink. Now I'm writing this. It is a bit early, but I'm am knackered from the 4am start and all the walking! I'll probably nip out later for a slice of pizza.

My 10x10 challenge is in tatters. I've spoken to more than 10 people, but never for more than a few moments while asking for instructions or getting directions. I need to try harder. Still it is useful just listening in on other peple speaking. Hearing the language in the wild and understanding is super motivating.
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:01 pm

Day two. But I'll finish off the last part of Day One. After I stopped writing in my log, I nipped out for a pizza. It was excellent stuff, but when I ordered, the woman asked me if I wanted to talk in English. But I said I prefer Italian, in Italian, and so we carried on. The stuff was so good, and I was so hungry, I went up for another slice and asked why she knew I spoke English. The accent, of course. I knew I was never going to pass for a native speaker, but she figured it out in all of 3 sentences. Afterward, I came back to the hotel and basically passed out. I slept for 12 hours and then woke up around nine and got up, dressed and headed out for my first full day in Milano.

I had walked so much the day before my feet ached, so I decided to try the metro service today. Still not confident about the buses. I did use the buses the whole time I was in Rome, but it has been awhile, and I can't remember the ins and outs of it. Google Maps suggested a walk down a side street and over the train tracks near the hotel toward the closest metro station. So I basically walked down someone's driveway, then out their front gate. It was a great shortcut, but I don't know what I would have done if some angry Italian had sprung up in my path. Having done my illegal trespassing for the morning (I did it this evening too. ssshhhh don't tell) I walked up to the metro station. I think I have sort of worked out the metro here, but it isn't intuitive by any stretch of the imagination, but the trick seems to be to know the number of the line you are on, and the name of your destination. Then you'll be able to go directly to the M3 line rather than what I was doing which was got to M1, go inside the barriers and check if my station was on the list for the two platforms. If not, go to the M2 line and check, etc. etc. So now I know to look at the entire metro map, find the station I want, work out which of the lines I want and check all the connections.

Anyway, I decided that I would start with Sforzesco Castle, which seemed fairly easy to get to with not a lot of changes on the metro line. I arrived and popped out of the metro on to a super busy, confusing intersection. I found the castle and followed a herd of American ladies up the hill. I discovered later that I came in the back of the castle, and the front of it has a huge fountain and a really impressive façade. But the inside is pretty impressive too. I went into the ticket office because they have a Michelangelo art gallery, but the queue was too long, and I didn't really want to look at paintings. So I stopped just at the door of the ticket office and there was a security guy standing there. I was going to ask if they sold tickets to walk up into the tower. In which case I would turn around and go buy one. But before I could ask him, some American guy jumped in front of me and asked him how old the castle was. During this exchange, I worked out how little English the security guy knew. He told the American, "It is built in year eight thousand". The American just looked at him confused, then he and his wife moved on. So I smiled and said to the guard. Penso che tu intenda l'anno ottocento, non ottomila. (I think you mean year eight hundred, not eight thousand.) but he was like no! (È stato costruito 800 anni fa!) It was built 800 years ago!

Anyway, I had a good chuckle, and he grinned. Also, yes they do sell tickets to walk up the tower, but not on the day I was there, only on Saturday.

I walked down through a huge park and stopped by a van that was selling food. I was hungry, and I wanted to speak to people, but I don't really like disturbing people when they work. Anyway, I decided to go ahead and try to speak to the fellow when I ordered and try to have a conversation about something other than my food. But we got side tracked because I ordered café. Normally this isn't a problem, it means I want an espresso coffee. BUT MY ACCENT IS A PAIN! Because of the accent, he stopped, turned around and confirmed with me. Café? Espresso, si? So yes, I assured him that I knew that I'd ordered an espresso with my food.

I walked across the park to some huge thing that looks like the Arch De Truimph but I have no idea of the actually name. I sat there for a moment and worked out how I could get to Santa Maria delle Grazie so that I could take a peak at The Last Supper. I also thought that if there is a queue for the tickets then I will try to chat with the people beside me. This was a brilliant plan in my head. But reality had different ideas. Firstly the couple in front of me were Japanese, and the woman behind me was Chinese. I did think about attempting to speak to her, but I knew she was Chinese because she was on her phone the whole time. After a long time standing in the queue I got to the front and could finally use Italian. Which they used to inform me that you have to book tickets in advance and you just pick them up here! Subsequently I found you have to book tickets weeks in advance.

So with that I was off to the next sight. Basilica di Sant'Ambrogio. Which is not to far away, just around the corner. Although the cornor is currently being dug up, so it is a bit of a diversion to get there. I arrived, took two pictures of the inside, and they announced they were closing. So they sent me out the exit, not the door I came in. It leads me to an alley which branched off into a college campus I wasn't allowed into, or a huge loop back on myself. Eventually, after a lot of walking, I ended up in front of the University. So I sat down for a little break on one of the benches. There was this skinny woman with a shaved head handing out leaflets. Now, don't get me wrong, but when I looked at her, I couldn't help but think of those photos you see of women held in concentration camps. Shallow eyes, skinny with no flesh on them, gaunt face. She was only handing these leaflets out to the young girls going in and out of the University, so I sort of thought it would be things about women's rescue housing, or rape trauma stuff. I'm just telling you my thought process and impressions, but then I decided since I was here to speak to people, I would just go and ask her what the leaflets were for.

So I walked over and asked her what she was handing out. She was handing out leaflets about veganism and how to change to being a vegan. Honestly, this woman is not a glowing advertisement for veganism. But, she was a really nice lady and we had a nice long chat. I was a vegetarian before for a few years, so we talked about that, and she was one of the first people I've spoken too here for more than 10 minutes. So 1 of my 10x10. (This still isn't going well btw).

I decided that I would go back to Il Duomo and that bookshop I had see yesterday. But before that there was another museum close by, so I thought I would drop into that. Well, that took the better part of two hours. It was full of Roman mosaics, statues, carvings, etc. Also, there is a tower which used to be part of the Roman chariot racing circuit which was converted into a bell tower for a church. So I walked around all that, and next door in the same building is Chiesa di San Marizio. This is really beautiful and full of murals. It is split into the public part, and the back, which used to be a nuns convent. There is a partition so the nuns could see the public. Fascinating stuff

At this point I was hungry, but I wanted pasta and connolli. I walked around for a little while and found a kiosk selling books! Yay! I puttered around for a little while, then decided to make the owner another 10x10 victim since he wasn't busy. I asked him if he had some modern Italian poetry books. We chatted while he rummaged around and then walked around the outside looking for some. Eventually he called a colleague who told him the names of some poets. The only problem was the ones he had were first edition collectors items, and he wanted €65 for one. I decided to skip it and maybe look for some books later.

I decided to go back to the central train station just because I knew they had beer, pasta and cannolli which I wanted in that order. So bypassing the bookshop near Il Duomo I went and got my food. Afterward I hit the bookshop in the central station, but they had nothing, so I got on the metro and headed for Il Duomo because I wanted to go inside. I will not go on about the long ticket lines etc. But I did eventually get a ticket, and I bought one which allowed me to go up to the roofs. I decided that I would take the stairs up. It is cheaper and the queue to go up is shorter. In fact it was so short that I was the only one in that queue. Although the one with the lift went around the block.

The view from the top of Il Duomo is worth the heart attack I almost had getting up the stairs. I definitely recommend it, unless you have a fear of heights. You get to see all sorts of churbs and things carved into the marble that you just can't see from the ground. When I got down, I walked around the piazza and looked at the shops. They had an interesting display with two E-Type Jags. Then I went into the bookshop and had a chat with the sales guy, who helped me find the section on poetry, and corrected my mispronunciation of poetry in Italian. (A fossilised error I cannot seem to get rid of!)

I bought "Quando non morivo" by Mariangela Gualtieri. I have memorised a couple of poems by Robert Frost, so I though I would do one in Italian also.

I travelled back on the metro and took the wrong line, but was able to make a correction and get myself back to the stain near my hotel. This time I did my trespassing in the dark, but still didn't get caught by an angry resident. Now that I have written this up, and uploaded my photos for the family to see, I'm off out for dinner. I think I might try sushi.
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:04 pm

rdearman wrote:Still not confident about the buses. I did use the buses the whole time I was in Rome, but it has been awhile, and I can't remember the ins and outs of it.
I remember an italian journalist on C dans l'air describing being on an italian bus when the door fell off. This she said is not unusual. :shock:
I walked across the park to some huge thing that looks like the Arch De Truimph but I have no idea of the actually name.
Archo della Pace?
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:12 pm

After I completed my post yesterday (had the same problem as many others regarding spamhas warnings) and then spent some time trying to fix the forum posting. Turned this over to EMK and headed out to eat. I ended up in the same pizza place near the hotel. I blew off the sushi because it is way to expensive, even for the all-you-can-eat price. Came back and collapsed in the bed.

Day Three:
Dressed and checked the forum, where I had a huge stack of PM's from people accusing me of banning them. This glitch is annoying, but I couldn't think of anything else to do, so I headed out to see Milan. I walked over to the metro station after I had decided to see the Ossuary which I had been told about by stringerbell. This time I only managed to get lost once on the metro and after jumping off and getting another line to in the direction I was supposed to be going, I eventually popped out of the Metro near Il Duomo. If you are thinking that just about everything is near Il Duomo, then you would be correct.

It was a quick 5-minute walk to the church. As I approached, I saw this crowd of people gathered on the other side of the church. I figured that was probably the entrance to the bone thing, but I decided to go into the main doors of the church. After a walk about the inside, I confirmed that there was no bone ossuary room here, and I should probably go back out where all the people were gathered. But as I walked out, I saw a small A4 piece of paper with the word ossuary and an arrow. So I followed that to discover that the ossuary is a smaller extension of the church off to the left. I spent a little time photographing the ossuary and checking out the rather macabre decorations.

As I left the huge group of people were coming toward me, and I worked out that there was nothing where they had all stood, it was just a collection point for a tour.

Having now seen just about every tourist attraction in Milan, I decided to head down to Mr Dick, and buy a phallus shaped pastry. Unfortunately, after a long 15 minute was, I was disappointed because it was closed. On the bright side, I did do a small detour to see another ancient church and some still standing Roman columns. So I left Mr Dick and headed down the road in a more or less random direction. Fortuitously I found myself near the canals and I began walking up and down them. I stopped for a little bit and watched a couple of boats, which looked a bit like undecorated dragon boats, which was full of children and a couple of adults racing each other up and down the canal. I found another really good bookshop but I'm very restricted on what I can bring back with me on the flight, and also I'm going to have to read anything I bring back. It will have to be added to the mass of books that I have already not been reading.

While browsing the books, I was suddenly struck with the reason that the forum is probably failing on posts with this spamhaus error. I over on the south side of the city and I thought I would look around for somewhere to eat which might have free Wi-Fi. I started to head back toward Il Duomo, because I knew I could get the Metro back to Centrale FS where I had already signed up to the station Wi-Fi. I could have pasta, cannoli, beer and Wi-Fi. Finding Il Duomo was easy, I didn't need to follow signs for it. Simply to follow the signs for KFC, then 5 Guys, then McDonald's and presto there you are.

I jumped in the metro at the Central station and headed for the restaurants. I got some nice Tortellini, which was then dumped onto a huge wheel of cheese and stirred around. Then I got a beer and set to work finding the setting on the forum which was causing problems. After checking that the problem was fixed, I put the phone down and ate my lunch. I went down and grabbed up another pastry and another beer and sat down looking for more sites to see.

At this point, I've pretty much tapped out all the Milan tourist attractions. There is one cemetery which I plan to visit tomorrow. I decided to pack it in a little earlier today and get my aching feet back to the hotel for a rest. I got on the metro and took the correct line and got off at my stop. When I got to the barriers, it wouldn't let me through! It seems my three-day travel card had expired, and I was trapped in the station! Now, no matter what faults the underground system in London might have, it will always let you out. This is probably because the people running the underground probably don't want to trap a bunch of broke, angry foreigners in the underground. But the Italians don't seem to care. Eventually I found a machine which is specifically designed to charge you €5 to exit the station if your ticket expires.

Of course, the expiration time isn't printed on the ticket, so I was just guessing when it would run out. Or if it is printed, it is part of the 50 digit validation number on the back. I simply assumed that it would allow me out regardless. They say there is a special layer of hell where the Italians organise everything and the Germans do the policing.

As a talking holiday, this trip has been a bit of a bust. I have not managed my 10x10 goal on any day ever. I was thinking about some blog I read where they guy (who was in China) would search out people who didn't have anything better to do than talk anyway. Like car park attendants stuck in a booth all night.

OK, I'm heading out for dinner. Ciao!!!
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby Carmody » Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:59 pm

My wife has suggested you may wish to go to a church of any faith and speak to them of converting. That would take some time and easily get you 10 min. Of course you could go to multiple churches or houses of worship of any faith........or have you ever considered going to confession in Italian? Since I am not Catholic I don't know how conversational that would be...

10 churches a day??
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:26 pm

Carmody wrote:My wife has suggested you may wish to go to a church of any faith and speak to them of converting. That would take some time and easily get you 10 min. Of course you could go to multiple churches or houses of worship of any faith........or have you ever considered going to confession in Italian? Since I am not Catholic I don't know how conversational that would be...

10 churches a day??

That would be like shooting fish in a barrel. If there is one thing that Milan doesn't lack it is churches. I did think about that approach today actually since outside the train station where were a group of Jehovah Witnesses handing out leaflets. I think I might be better off trying to find an Apple Store and trying to get one of the "geniuses" to convert me from Linux and Android devices. (The only geniuses at Apple works in the marketing department) ;)
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:00 pm

Yesterday I had some trouble sleeping because the people in the next room are either newly-weds or having an affair, and she is very vocal.

OK, Day... whatever, can't remember, I had some beer, in tiny-weenie little glasses...

Day Four?


(BTW, never give coffee to someone who had to much to drink, all you get is a wide awake drunk.)


OK, today I got up early and headed out for Cimitero Monumentale di Milano. It was fairly easy to get to, although I admit I got lost. This metro system is harder than you think, although now that I'm leaving I have got the hang of it.

The Cimitero Monumentale di Milano is HUGE! I mean, you could spend 2 or 3 days wandering around looking at all the monuments and mausoleums here. I only covered about 1/3rd of the place, and I spent the entire morning there. I didn't even go into the Jewish side, which would be a whole other day. There are a ton of sculptures made for the graves, and some of the sculptures are really famous themselves. There is a plaque which shows the most famous 35+ sculptures and where they are located in the cemetery. I stopped and took photos of a lot of them, and I took some photos inside the old crematorium where people took their last ride on a small set of rails. They would put the body on a stone and iron cart which moved on rails to the furnace and slid the body off into the furnace for burning.

The cemetery is still in use and I saw a lot of plaques for people who died in 2021/22. Especially worrying because many of these people were younger than me. :shock:

I decided to leave and get some lunch because I hadn't eaten, and I was starving. I thought I would come back and look at the rest but I didn't so I either need to do that in the little time I have left tomorrow, or come back again.

I walked for ages to find somewhere to eat and eventually found a little cafe just in front of the Microsoft offices in Milan. I had a wonderful sandwich and a long talk with the proprietor. Who again attempted English because of my accent and then switched back to Italian when I continued in Italian. It is interesting to me that all the people I've met this week in Italy immediately realise I'm a native English speaker because of my accent. But they ask if I want to speak in English or Italian, and as soon as I say Italian, they never switch back to English. Unlike my experience in France where the minute you open your mouth, and they hear an accent, they speak to you in English and never attempt to speak in French again. Regardless how really terrible their English is. Anyway, I was saying to this fellow that I noticed a huge amount of people of Oriental heritage around as I was sitting outside eating my sandwich. Only to discover that I was literally around the corner from Chinatown in Milan. So the reason I didn't return to the cemetery was simply because Chinatown was more appealing.

I did hit my 10x10 today ! The reason was that in order to speak more Italian, I had to go to Chinatown. :)

Basically because I am on nickel and dime airline, I need to print my boarding pass. But I forgot to bring a USB stick to copy the PDF over to. So I went in search of one in all the tech shops in Chinatown, of which there is a lot! It was useful because I had to describe what I wanted because I didn't know the words for "USB Memory Stick with a USB-C connector", but after a couple of interactions I did learn it. I marched around looking for such a thing and talking to all the shopkeepers. I found one for an Apple computer, but declined to purchase it at €35 ! Eventually I found a PC version for €8.50 (Which btw works on Windows, Apple and Linux). Honestly, do Mac owners actually like being ripped off?

So, I did reach 10x10, but it stopped after I found the Kingston version and bought it. I decided I would leave Chinatown and return later for dinner. I had planned to hit up the Museo Nazionale Scienza e Tecnologia Leonardo da Vinci. National Science museum, basically. So I got there and the entrance fee was only €10. I spent a few hours wandering around and checked out the full submarine they have. It is basically a Cold War sub from the Italian navy, dry docked in the middle of Milan. Pretty cool. There is a ton of other stuff. Aeroplanes, ships, stream trains, locomotives, etc. etc. As well as replicas of the drawings Leonardo engineered. Interesting for me was the fact they have in a museum the Nokia phone I used to have when I was on standby for IT operations. In fact all the telecommunications stuff I used to use regularly for my work are now museum pieces!

I did listen to an amusing bit of French where a French man was explaining to his son that in the olden days telephones were rotary and that you spun the dial on the phone to make it work, there were no buttons. :)

After the museum, I decided to head back to Chinatown and eat. I searched around because I wanted some steamed buns. I found a place and went inside. It was pretty expensive, but I figured it was my last night so I would go for it. I had some lovely dim sum and some bao, but after I left the restaurant I was still hungry. So I found this place which just sold skewers of meat, chicken, beef, pork, and you picked the ones you wanted, and they fried them up. So I got a selection and some beer and chowed down. At this point, I'd had about 4 beers in me, so I decided to head back to the hotel. But on the way I saw a cocktail bar. It was on this long road, which was beside an abandoned railway line. It was early, and you could tell that this place was probably jammed on a Friday or Saturday night, but since it was still early, and they were advertising an "American Trained Mixologist/Bartender" I decided to go in and be an awkward sod. I rocked up and asked for a Long Island Iced Tea, which he immediately say OK to, and sent me down to the end of the bar to pay the lady.

I chatted with her for a moment, then spend a good 10-15 minutes chatting to the bartender. One good thing about bartenders is they are generally good to talk to, and they understand slurring and poor pronunciation. I left the bar in search of some conolli, but never found any. This will be the first day without a conolli. :(

I am much better at speaking to random people when I have had a skinful. There were two ladies drinking wine outside a bar with a lovely Labrador dog. So I asked if I could pet him and had a little chat about dogs. They offered for me to sit with them, but I needed to get back to sort out my boarding pass, so I declined.

Now I really need to try and get my boarding pass printed. So down to reception I will go! I don't know what I'll write tomorrow. I've only got the morning before I have to get the "express train" out to the airport and make my way back.
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby rdearman » Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:04 pm

OK, back home now. I spent most of the day yesterday waiting. I got up early but didn't really have any place I wanted to go or see, so I sat in the hotel room for a little while watching some very bad television programs. After checking out, I walked down to the central station. I took my time since I had a couple of hours to kill before getting the train out to the airport. I went back into the station market where all the restaurants are since I could use the wifi there. I had a lovely lunch of bread with some cheese and sun-dried tomatoes and a small bowl of tortellini. I went downstairs to the bakery part to ask if they could put some of the cannoli into a box for me to take back. But they didn't do boxes there. I wandered around and then just before my train was about to depart I discovered another floor of the bookshop! Wouldn't you know it, this is the floor with the types of books I read? Just before I walked out to catch my train, I got stopped by this guy to chat. Seems he was an author, and he was doing a book signing there in the store. There weren't a lot of people, so he was walking around and talking to people. He showed me his book and gave me a bit of a sales pitch, but it wasn't really my thing, and as my train was leaving soon. So I said sorry and disappeared. It was unfortunate because there was a willing victim for my 10x10 thing.

The slow "express train" got me to the airport without any issues, and once again I basically fast tracked through security and the passport checks. I was literally given a queue to wait in that consisted only of me. Many annoyed looking EU passport holders were giving me the stink-eye. But I whizzed through, and then all sorts of alarms started going off behind me. Seems some Irish fellow tried to go through the passport checking machine without waiting for the doors to open properly. I thought it was me, but the policeman just waved me through and launched into a tirade at the Irish fellow. I was standing looking at the board to see what gate I was supposed to go to when the Irish fellow came out followed by his wife, who was also going off on the poor guy. That guy was having a rubbish day already.

Still having a load of time, and no announcement for my gate, I walked around the shopping looking at stuff. I got cornered by some charity collectors, and this girl started speaking to me. Again, she switched to English as soon as she heard the accent and told me she used to live in the UK. I explained that I wasn't going to speak any English until I landed back in England. I just kept speaking in Italian. But she asked if it was OK for her to speak in English, so we stood chatting for a good 20 minutes, her in English and me in Italian. She was curious about why I spoke Italian, etc. I explained the whole thing about being annoyed the first time I came to Italy and couldn't buy a train ticket because I didn't know the language. It was strange I forgot the name of Pompeii while telling her this story. Then I ended up talking about ancient Romans, near Naples, Mount Vesuvius covering it, archaeology blah blah, trying to get across to her the place until eventually she shouted out Pompeii ! Actually, I think her colleague knew what I was trying to say, I could see out of the corner of my eye that he was dying to interrupt, so I think he twigged the name before she did. Then another 10 minutes while she tried to convince me to sign up for a monthly charity subscription. But of course I'm currently unemployed and between contracts, so that wasn't going to happen.

Then while wandering around towards Gate B, I saw a shop selling food, and they had cannoli. So I asked if they had a box they could pack it in, so I could take it back? No, they didn't have a box, but the lovely lady dragged over a colleague, and they discussed the issue. They got two large hot dog plates, and put the cannoli in one, then covered it with the other and tucked the sides in. Then they wrapped the whole thing is plastic wrap and voilà! There was my cannoli ready for transport.

After that, it was just sitting on a plane and getting home.

In summary, as for language use, I would say by the end of the 3rd day I was starting to sporadically think in Italian. I should have forced myself to speak to more people, but it was difficult to find opportunities, except when I needed something like the USB stick, or the cannoli packaging. I was quite hesitant the first 2 days because I haven't been using the Italian more than 30 minutes every week or two. But it came back quick enough, and I didn't have any problems with people understanding me. It is obvious however that I have a heavy accent. At no point did anyone mistake me for an Italian or a German, they went straight to English. I did have some issues when I was caught off guard. For example, someone lady spat out a long string of Italian at me, when I was looking at the menu on the side of her kiosk. She came around the corner and I didn't see before she started talking. I had no context and it was so rapid and unexpected that I have no clue what she said. It was probably something like, "we're not open for another hour, blah, blah"

I would guess my level at B2, although lots of the "requirements" for C1 or C2 I didn't have any problems with. For example:
  • C1 - Can express ideas fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions.
  • C1 - Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes.
  • C2 - Can understand with ease virtually everything heard or read.

Just to clarify why I think this. I was eavesdropping on every conversation being had on every metro ride, I was listening to people talk when they were on the phones, I was listening to them as I walked behind them. I was a super creepy eavesdropper. Likewise, I did understand all those conversations. But the woman who sprang up amount of nowhere, her, I didn't understand. Although to be honest, if that had happened to me in London in English, I probably wouldn't have caught what she said. The only time I found myself groping for words were when I genuinely couldn't remember, and it would have been the same thing with "Pompeii" if I'd been speaking English because the name really did escape me. I don't use any language other than English professionally, so I don't know about that. But I have in the past told some Italian guy how to configure and check his servers, so I don't think it would be a problem.

But I am not C1. Anything to do with writing, I can't do it. Firstly, I always like to tell people that I can misspell words in 4 or 5 languages. Spontaneously writing in Italian is a none starter. Although I have in the past spoken French or Italian into my Google keyboard on the phone and had it type out what I said. That works because I know the words, just can't spell them.

Anyway, I'm not interested in taking any test or getting any level certification. I am at the point I want to be at. I can go around Italy and speak to Italians freely without resorting to google translate or dictionaries. I can understand what they say to me, and they understand me (even with what must be a super thick accent.) I don't think I'll stop using Italian, I even bought 3 books of crossword puzzle books in Italian to use, but I've no interesting with writing or doing exams.

If you ever get the chance to go to Milan, I highly recommend it!
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Re: Rdearman 2016-22 원숭이도 나무에서 떨어질 때가 있다 (Sometimes even monkeys fall from trees)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:04 pm

rdearman wrote:I can go around Italy and speak to Italians freely without resorting to google translate or dictionaries. I can understand what they say to me, and they understand me (even with what must be a super thick accent.)
I wonder how thick? Maurice Chevalier spoke English with an obvious French accent, but I wouldn't have called it thick. Maybe you don't know who Chevalier was, but my point is that an accent does not have to be Pepe-Lepew thick to be obvious. Maybe LLORG needs a thread on accents, maybe there should be some kind of scale that would be noncontroversial like the CEFR categories. ;)
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