Rdearman 2016-24 You Can't Have Your Kate and Edith Too.

[smallwhite]

I wrote a more detailed reply to your recent question here.

[MamaPata]

sigh, took two listening comprehension tests at dialangweb, and now I don't even know why I bother trying to learn a language. I'm obviously not very good at it. I managed only a B1 in Italian, and I gave up part way through the French because I was going to get a result of -A3 assuming there was a scale where you could actually go backwards. I think I should probably now just realise learning languages is just too difficult and concentrate on trying to learn a simpler subject like brain surgery, or rocket science, or calculus.

I sometimes think that I should take up a different subject, because then I'd probably do lots of language study in order to procrastinate!

Don't give up hope! I am sure you are doing better than you think. I think one of the main things about B1/B2 level is that it is a weirdly large gap, especially compared to the A levels. You are making progress, even if you can't see it in the tests yet.

(And if you are doing terribly, you're definitely not alone! I welcome another lazy learner on my little island of mediocrity!)

[rdearman]

Given my abysmal showing on Italian, I've picked up Michel THomas advanced & Vocabulary builder to listen in the car, and I'm still binge watching Italian on netflix.

[rdearman]

I wish emk hadn't shown me the Amazon Web Services! This new shiny has distracted me wayyyyy to much. But I did find one really good language thing.. other than running this website... which is Polly!
Amazon Polly is a cloud service that converts text into lifelike speech. and the speech engine is very very good. So I took a little time to learn SSML (markup language) and generated my own personal Pimsluer like mp3 for Anthony Lauder's connectors and generated something I can listen to in the car. Basically:
Say in Italian "prompt in English" <pause> "answer in Italian". Example below.

Code: Select all

<speak>
Dire in italiano <lang xml:lang="en-US">that is a good question</lang><break time="2s"/>che è una buona domanda<break time="2s"/>
Dire in italiano <lang xml:lang="en-US">that is such a difficult question</lang><break time="2s"/>questa è una domanda così difficile<break time="2s"/>
</speak>

Bit of a pain in proverbial to do since you're only allowed 3000 characters on the online web-page, although programmers using an API can do more. But it sounds OK, and it will allow me to drill. I'm also looking to get some "Islands" memorised and I figure this method would also help me. So I've written up some islands on lang-8 for correction and hopefully this will let me memorise well formed islands. I'm also looking to practice embellishment, with a tutor, so I'm looking at prices on Verbling & iTalki. (If you're thinking I've just re-read "How to Improve Your Foreign Language Immediately" by Boris Shekhtman you would be correct.

[PeterMollenburg]

sigh, took two listening comprehension tests at dialangweb, and now I don't even know why I bother trying to learn a language. I'm obviously not very good at it. I managed only a B1 in Italian, and I gave up part way through the French because I was going to get a result of -A3 assuming there was a scale where you could actually go backwards. I think I should probably now just realise learning languages is just too difficult and concentrate on trying to learn a simpler subject like brain surgery, or rocket science, or calculus.

How many languages are you doing rdearman? Are you spreading yourself too thin? I don't know if you are, I'm simply putting it out there as food for thought. Perhaps you could boost one language to an advanced level and come back to the others? I dunno, but hang in there, you'll sort yourself out if you really want to!

[rdearman]

sigh, took two listening comprehension tests at dialangweb, and now I don't even know why I bother trying to learn a language. I'm obviously not very good at it. I managed only a B1 in Italian, and I gave up part way through the French because I was going to get a result of -A3 assuming there was a scale where you could actually go backwards. I think I should probably now just realise learning languages is just too difficult and concentrate on trying to learn a simpler subject like brain surgery, or rocket science, or calculus.

How many languages are you doing rdearman? Are you spreading yourself too thin? I don't know if you are, I'm simply putting it out there as food for thought. Perhaps you could boost one language to an advanced level and come back to the others? I dunno, but hang in there, you'll sort yourself out if you really want to!

At the moment I'm concentrating on Italian. I've parked everything else until after July at least at which time I'll add French back into the mix. But yes I think you're right I've been trying to do to much. I'm no Expugnator, so I need to ratchet back on the expectations. Actually my Italian tutor said the same thing and that I'd actually gotten worse at Italian. Which makes sense because it has been on a back-burner for awhile.

[jeff_lindqvist]

How many languages are you doing rdearman? Are you spreading yourself too thin?

Juggling multiple languages has never stopped Expugnator, Systematiker, Iversen and numerous others on this forum (and who doesn't remember ProfArguelles from the old HTLAL?). I'd never say that they are spreading themselves thin.

[PeterMollenburg]

How many languages are you doing rdearman? Are you spreading yourself too thin?

Juggling multiple languages has never stopped Expugnator, Systematiker, Iversen and numerous others on this forum (and who doesn't remember ProfArguelles from the old HTLAL?). I'd never say that they are spreading themselves thin.

Ok, and I agree, but I am talking to rdearman, not any of those guys above. I doubt rdearman has all day to dedicate to languages, and if he does I'm not sure he's convinced he could be or even wants to be as methodical/diligent/busy as those people for the majority of his daily routine.

Expug, is also very aware of his strategy in terms of it being a long journey because he's learning multiple languages and I believe he accepts it as such a journey and finds ways to regularly advance most if his languages through a very methodical routine. He as well as Systematiker (who already speaks near native German) appear to have a lot of time for languages throughout the day (I'm not suggesting that makes it easy- they're pretty amazing really). Iversen too appears to have a good deal of time. I'm not sure Iversen places equal emphases on all skills, reading is his preference I believe, thus he could save time this way- although with an English vocab (edit: 'considerably') larger than mine (edit: which isn't huge btw), perhaps he just puts the time savings into reading even more.

I think rdearman could learn multiple languages day in day out and advance nicely, but the ingredients need to be right:
time + efficiency + consistent regular application and the personality willing to undertake it all.

rdearman himself does not appear to want to study that way. I recall him stating that learning routines that he must hold himself to create pressure and make him rebel against the routine, while lack of routine sees him study more. ProfArguelles was like a drill sergeant for years on end. None of these guys profiles appear to resonate with rdearman's.

Nothing wrong with his style, but swapping and mixing languages in the A and B levels without consistent application of all of them regularly is a recipe for at least occasional frustration. Still, rdearman, I too get frustrated with my one language strategy.

I may not be a polyglot, but I do have the experience of lack of consistency due to time constraints while attempting to advance multiple languages with inefficient methods. The best thing I did was focus on one and when I finally pass a C1/C2 French exam, that knowledge will assist me to possibly returning to learning multiple languages simultaneously if I want to. Such an approach could be useful for others like rdearman. Or rdearman could change his approach to be more like the people you have mentioned.

I'm happy to be challenged or corrected of course.

[smallwhite]

For my talk in Bratislava I'm giving a talk on using TV to help learn a language. (physician heal thyself?) I've more or less come to the conclusion that for someone who is in the A1-A2 range it is probably a waste of time to binge watch TV. But from B1+ it is better than anything else you could probably do. I've also decided that for someone A1-A2 TV with Anki is probably one of the better ways to get to B1+ in the first place.

sigh, took two listening comprehension tests at dialangweb... I managed only a B1 in Italian, and I gave up part way through the French because I was going to get a result of -A3

What are you going to say in Bratislava, then?

[rdearman]

For my talk in Bratislava I'm giving a talk on using TV to help learn a language. (physician heal thyself?) I've more or less come to the conclusion that for someone who is in the A1-A2 range it is probably a waste of time to binge watch TV. But from B1+ it is better than anything else you could probably do. I've also decided that for someone A1-A2 TV with Anki is probably one of the better ways to get to B1+ in the first place.

sigh, took two listening comprehension tests at dialangweb... I managed only a B1 in Italian, and I gave up part way through the French because I was going to get a result of -A3

What are you going to say in Bratislava, then?

I'll say don't use me as an example! But actually the low score I got hasn't changed my opinion of the usefulness of TV, but it has made me question the strawpoll results in the other thread I created. I suspect people underestimated the amount of time/exposure they got. It also means I'm seriously considering the creation of a study I mentioned earlier where I gather up people for 1 year to do French, and have their level evaluated by a native at the next gathering. That assumes there will be another gathering, and I can get a French speaker to do the evaluation!

Also, I'd take with a grain of salt my near constant moaning about how bad I am. I have good days and bad days and I could have done better on that test with less distractions.